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Anyone in Hellgate?
- Thread starter Anomaly1964
- Start date
apoppin
Lifer
i have been waiting for this and i will join up as soon as my bandwidth cap resets. Can we use the game disk to install any files?
i have the full retail game and i played online until the day Hellgate London shutdown.
It looks like the same game? Is there any expansion beyond Stonehenge? i guess we need to create new characters.
i understand that it is free to play and is now supported by micro-transactions. What killed it before were the bugs and lack of new content.
i have the full retail game and i played online until the day Hellgate London shutdown.
It looks like the same game? Is there any expansion beyond Stonehenge? i guess we need to create new characters.
i understand that it is free to play and is now supported by micro-transactions. What killed it before were the bugs and lack of new content.
Elcs
Diamond Member
Fixed.
Being rushed out for Halloween and having released a Demo which was terrible compared to the reasonable standard of closed beta was a decision only someone at EA could make methinks.
JSt0rm
Lifer
Is it free now? I was a dumb ass and bought it off ea game downloads and I was limited to 6 month of downloading. Assholes.
edit
I guess its pay to play now. You can buy a "ticket" that opens up all of the game for 6 characters on your account. I'm sure they will sell uber weapons for grinding as well.
edit
I guess its pay to play now. You can buy a "ticket" that opens up all of the game for 6 characters on your account. I'm sure they will sell uber weapons for grinding as well.
Last edited:
BrownShoes
Golden Member
Hellgate had good trailers!
Anomaly1964
Platinum Member
I know this used to be a regular game, but it's an MMO now, or was it always an MMO?
apoppin
Lifer
It was always an MMO but had a complete single player campaign also. i was in the beta and got my Engineer through the game twice - almost completed it again for the third time on Nightmare but you get capped while the NPCs continue to level up
i played in Stonehenge expansion when it became free last time - but it was pretty buggy (they fixed the main game when they released the expansion). Then Flagship sank.
i played in Stonehenge expansion when it became free last time - but it was pretty buggy (they fixed the main game when they released the expansion). Then Flagship sank.
So is anyone actually playing this? I played this back in beta and for most of its life and I'd be willing to fire it up again if it's similar; I can't click the link so I'm not sure exactly how this is working.
KT
KT
Schadenfroh
Elite Member
I have a copy of this game that I picked up at a salvage store a while back for $5, the single player worth playing after patching?
apoppin
Lifer
It's hack and slash for Blademasters; probably the most fun build (and i think they rebalanced it in the patch for flying enemies).
i'd say go for it. Hellgate was the first game to run better (and look much better) in DX10 than DX9. The issues are that the quests are generic (click through; the combat is the thing) and the environments although unique and they are randomly generated, there is a "sameness" about it.
I found it addictive for mindless shooting at the end of the day .. something to relax by. Definitely an action RPG (emphasis on action; RPG elements of leveling up and choosing a specialty - lots of micromanaging possible; limited storage issues)
Zenoth
Diamond Member
I gave it a try, it was a 6GB (roughly) download, phew.
Anyway, it's fun! Yup, I'm surprised. Well, of course the graphics are a bit dated, but overall they look "good enough". Wasn't the "original" game supporting some DX10? I'm asking because this version I'm playing has no DX10 render options, I mean the actual option for the render is simply limited to DX9, maybe they removed DX10 in this version, oh well, no biggie, just mentioning though. I tried three "classes", so far a Summoner, then a Marksman and finally a Blademaster (I think... it's the one with the shield build, not with the dual-swords), and it's just fun overall really, I don't see myself playing it for very long though, but it's alright.
One thing however, wasn't it supposed to be some sort of an MMO? Because outside of the actual levels with enemies (I.E, in Subways and various underground stations, where you don't fight and just trade, get quests, etc) I seem to be playing entirely alone, and by that I mean that in "MMOs" I can play alone, yes... but I do see other players doing their stuff around me, and I can of course play with them if I want to. Now in this game I don't know when the MMO part starts, or if we were just misinformed, but the only places where I actually meet other human players around are in those stations where they all get their quests and vendor their stuff away and do whatever they have to before "playing" away from those places.
So it's basically like... say... Diablo II where you'd have a public game and end up having players in the town with you, with the difference being that once you leave the "town" (stations, underground from what I can see so far) in this game then it changes to a passworded, "closed" game (still comparing to Diablo II here) during which you'll be completely alone. Now I do know that players in this version of Hellgate can form parties and seemingly play together in the same level/instance of a map, and I know that because I've seen what is called "party portals" I believe, so a party must have been formed and some players must have played or are about to go play together. And that's probably where the "MMO" part starts, and stops as well (correct me if I'm wrong).
All my characters are Level 6 so far, I seem to hit some sort of an EXP wall from that point, that or I just haven't found the proper same-level quest giver NPCs which I'll have to look for. As far as the game-play is concerned, it's basically Diablo II in 3D (by the way, it can be played in third-person view and zoomed in all the way to first-person). You kill mobs (demons, and some zombies, yay), loot stuff and level-up, that's it, but that in itself is already satisfying....
PROS (some, from what I've seen so far)
º Good selection of classes.
º Satisfying graphics (considering its age mostly, just max it out for what it's worth).
º Good tutorial and responsive controls. Pay attention to what the tutorial says if you're new, I mean, really.
º I like the interface, feels awkward at first though, but I got used to it after about half an hour.
º Being able to "disassemble" most items you loot as you play, thanks the Lord for that. A superb way to keep some bag space and greatly reduces the need to do back and forth trips between maps and vendors to get rid of what you don't want.. you'll still do that, sure, but because of that feature the necessity of it is far lower than in similar games.
Additionally, of course disassembling means that you'll get some materials out of that action, the materials (their types) coming out of any items' disassembling seems to come at a random, so just keep doing it and accumulate whatever you get (stacks up to good amounts, mostly on a single square of space in your bag, sometimes two). So far the usefulness of all that material from disassembling is not to be underestimated, because we can find what is called blueprints (I think it is?). Those allow the player to create an item that the blueprint holds, with a "recipe" that is already shown, it indeed shows what materials you need and it even lets you know how much of those specific materials you do have or how much you need to find until you can create the item in question. Not only that, but if you do happen to have all the required material to create the blueprint's item then a green check mark will appear on the blueprint itself in your bag, letting you know that you can create its item right away.
Honestly, that disassembling system is great, thumbs up to the devs for that one.
º There is some randomization, similarly to Diablo II (although to quite a lesser extent, still it is appreciated). From what I have seen (even including the tutorial to some extent) the game seems to "randomize" some paths (most of which will end up being linear anyway, but what I mean is that what you find in those paths will differ to some degree), and I think without being 100% sure of it that the randomization is actually linked to the character.
I'm saying this because just taking the tutorial for example, with my Summoner, the second NPC we meet wasn't located at the same place than it was later on with my other two characters when I did the tutorial with them. Also, in the subway level (can't remember its name, and I do mean a level with enemies here, not a refuge with vendors) with my Blademaster character there was a crashed and burning train wagon as I entered the level to my right. Then, with my Summoner there was simply none, instead there were some barrels and cardboard boxes and various other debris. Now, the thing is that when I return to those levels then the layout and what lies on my path is the same as long as I keep the same character. If I change it and get another one, than that same level (or any others I've played in so far) will have many objects and environmental things changed around, but the same applies to those other characters, if I keep playing with them and leave and than come back to those specific levels, then it remains the same (the layout I mean).
So, there's that, and also (obviously) the actual mobs spawning at different locations and regularly enough. It's nothing exaggerated either, it's actually well balanced, there's a spawning pause in specific map areas after you "clear" them before anything spawns again, it's not immediate, but mobs do spawn at and from cleared areas. Also, the types of mobs will differ when they spawn, you might get 10 generic zombies, or instead say... 4 zombies and 2 lesser demons, etc, very similar to Diablo II. So, sure, it creates some nice replay value there, not only do creating new characters seem to result in differently layed-out maps, but mobs are randomized as you play around.
Finally, still regarding randomization, it looks like the mobs in any given level will patrol and just wander around very large areas, I'm not sure if they do have a limited radius of action like in similar games. The best way to test that is obviously to get aggro, and then just letting the mob(s) chasing you until at "some point" it will stop and run back from where the aggro started, which would mean of course that beyond a certain radius or distance they stop attacking. Now, so far, in this game it doesn't seem to be the case, that or their radius of action is so large as to cover most of if not the whole maps (but remember, the maps are small generally speaking anyway).
A moment I liked related to that was that at some point I remember stopping with my Blademaster after I had "cleared" an area, so I checked my inventory to see what new items I just picked up (and to identify some of them, because yes we have to identify most of what we find)... but since the game doesn't stop when you access your inventory and mobs just continue roaming around I just never noticed, but while I was checking up my inventory some patrolling lesser demon thing attacked me and of course it made me jump off my chair. Contrarily to Diablo II in which a cleared area is effectively CLEARED, this one doesn't like it that way, nope, mobs roam and wander around, so if you stand still for whatever reason you might well end up as that next zombie's meal.
º The items drop rates (items quantity, type and quality) is actually good. It's nothing exaggeratedly low (like Diablo II, for instance, and I'm NOT talking about white items and health potions here), I've found good items already on two of my three characters, most of which are "Rare" (blue), along with a few... erm... "uniques" I think they are? I'm not sure, but the color is orange, above "rare" but I don't think they are "Legendary" (there's Legendary and Mystique, and Set, as well). Anyway, the point is that I found uniquely-named items and it feels nice, especially considering that I might play this on a casual basis rather than often.
º Enemies animations and ragdolls, indeed, most (not all, mind you) animations for mobs (when they're alive and fighting that is) are good, or "decent", at worst, and I think it's a plus due to the game's age, I was expecting worse really. And there's ragdolls for the mobs when they die (or when they explode, too).
CONS (same as above, some stuff I don't like, could change later on)
º The music... ugh, no thanks, turned it Off, playing with my own music in the background with other media players, that'll do.
º Character animations in third-person view, because indeed contrarily to most animations made for the foes the ones we got for our characters are rather lacking, not to say anything else... well, to be fair, some are "ok"... kinda, but I just mostly play in first-person view, NOT because I want, actually, but because I can't really stand those third-person animations on my characters. It's not worse than Oblivion or Morrowind... at least, but similar anyway.
º Lack of DX10? I don't know about that one, I consider it a CON because I do remember the original version of Hellgate London supporting some of it, not sure why they removed it for this one (Hellgate Global seems to be the full name?).
º Linearity of levels.
Indeed, it's contradictory but hey I never asked for it. The thing is... from what I've seen so far anyway (keep that in mind, only three Level 6 characters) is that despite the somewhat good amount of randomization occurring inside any given level, the actual level itself is rather narrow, mostly corridor-shaped. Additionally, let's forget about "exploration" in this game, almost completely, because other than sometimes (I.E very rarely) being able to "enter" some abandoned building and walking up some stairs from either sides of the street (and they all look the same) there's really nothing to explore within the levels themselves.
The only "secret" I've found by "exploring" (it really wasn't exploration per-se, it just happened to be on my path inside an actual subway corridor) was another separate level I could enter from the one I was in, accessed by a manhole/top opening. I really just happened to look down and suddenly I saw the interaction icon pop-up, notifying me that I could enter a level from there, which I did, and I ended up in a very small confined level with no enemies and only Paladium and crates lying around to pick up. That's about it, better than nothing, sure... but there's no exploration so far, even Diablo II itself had more open-ended environments. So yeah it's a CON, it annoys me sometimes when I do look at it, but the randomization inside those linear levels do help to forget about it, just a bit.
º The sounds (ambient sounds, weapons, etc) aren't very good, feels cheap or lacking (cheap when it comes to firing guns, and lacking when it comes to ambient sounds). I like the context of the game, although cliché I still like it (demons invading Earth, basically), so I would expect to hear some strange daemonic groans in the distance or some yells and cries of despair from unseen survivors... I'd like to think of something along the veins of the ambient sounds and "noises" we had in STALKER, but adjusted for this one's context. But overall it's lacking, and what we have isn't exactly fitting, or of good quality (very subjective, but that's my take on what I heard so far, it might change later on).
º No servers selection? Because unless I missed it, after creating my characters I jumped straight to the game and started playing. Is there only one server running this? I'm worried because I did get some (I.E lots of) lag, so logging out and logging back in in the hope of ending up in different instances (possibly servers) to "fix" the lag seems to be out of question for now. I did have to leave due to getting too much lag.
OVERALL (will surely change over time)
º It's good, really, it is, I'm surprised.
From my early experiences I would give it a solid 6.5/10 (and yes that's good for me). Not only will I keep it installed, but I'll play it from time to time. This game, in the end, is the filler I wanted until Diablo III comes out (where in the great heck are you Torchlight 2?).
Anyway, it's fun! Yup, I'm surprised. Well, of course the graphics are a bit dated, but overall they look "good enough". Wasn't the "original" game supporting some DX10? I'm asking because this version I'm playing has no DX10 render options, I mean the actual option for the render is simply limited to DX9, maybe they removed DX10 in this version, oh well, no biggie, just mentioning though. I tried three "classes", so far a Summoner, then a Marksman and finally a Blademaster (I think... it's the one with the shield build, not with the dual-swords), and it's just fun overall really, I don't see myself playing it for very long though, but it's alright.
One thing however, wasn't it supposed to be some sort of an MMO? Because outside of the actual levels with enemies (I.E, in Subways and various underground stations, where you don't fight and just trade, get quests, etc) I seem to be playing entirely alone, and by that I mean that in "MMOs" I can play alone, yes... but I do see other players doing their stuff around me, and I can of course play with them if I want to. Now in this game I don't know when the MMO part starts, or if we were just misinformed, but the only places where I actually meet other human players around are in those stations where they all get their quests and vendor their stuff away and do whatever they have to before "playing" away from those places.
So it's basically like... say... Diablo II where you'd have a public game and end up having players in the town with you, with the difference being that once you leave the "town" (stations, underground from what I can see so far) in this game then it changes to a passworded, "closed" game (still comparing to Diablo II here) during which you'll be completely alone. Now I do know that players in this version of Hellgate can form parties and seemingly play together in the same level/instance of a map, and I know that because I've seen what is called "party portals" I believe, so a party must have been formed and some players must have played or are about to go play together. And that's probably where the "MMO" part starts, and stops as well (correct me if I'm wrong).
All my characters are Level 6 so far, I seem to hit some sort of an EXP wall from that point, that or I just haven't found the proper same-level quest giver NPCs which I'll have to look for. As far as the game-play is concerned, it's basically Diablo II in 3D (by the way, it can be played in third-person view and zoomed in all the way to first-person). You kill mobs (demons, and some zombies, yay), loot stuff and level-up, that's it, but that in itself is already satisfying....
PROS (some, from what I've seen so far)
º Good selection of classes.
º Satisfying graphics (considering its age mostly, just max it out for what it's worth).
º Good tutorial and responsive controls. Pay attention to what the tutorial says if you're new, I mean, really.
º I like the interface, feels awkward at first though, but I got used to it after about half an hour.
º Being able to "disassemble" most items you loot as you play, thanks the Lord for that. A superb way to keep some bag space and greatly reduces the need to do back and forth trips between maps and vendors to get rid of what you don't want.. you'll still do that, sure, but because of that feature the necessity of it is far lower than in similar games.
Additionally, of course disassembling means that you'll get some materials out of that action, the materials (their types) coming out of any items' disassembling seems to come at a random, so just keep doing it and accumulate whatever you get (stacks up to good amounts, mostly on a single square of space in your bag, sometimes two). So far the usefulness of all that material from disassembling is not to be underestimated, because we can find what is called blueprints (I think it is?). Those allow the player to create an item that the blueprint holds, with a "recipe" that is already shown, it indeed shows what materials you need and it even lets you know how much of those specific materials you do have or how much you need to find until you can create the item in question. Not only that, but if you do happen to have all the required material to create the blueprint's item then a green check mark will appear on the blueprint itself in your bag, letting you know that you can create its item right away.
Honestly, that disassembling system is great, thumbs up to the devs for that one.
º There is some randomization, similarly to Diablo II (although to quite a lesser extent, still it is appreciated). From what I have seen (even including the tutorial to some extent) the game seems to "randomize" some paths (most of which will end up being linear anyway, but what I mean is that what you find in those paths will differ to some degree), and I think without being 100% sure of it that the randomization is actually linked to the character.
I'm saying this because just taking the tutorial for example, with my Summoner, the second NPC we meet wasn't located at the same place than it was later on with my other two characters when I did the tutorial with them. Also, in the subway level (can't remember its name, and I do mean a level with enemies here, not a refuge with vendors) with my Blademaster character there was a crashed and burning train wagon as I entered the level to my right. Then, with my Summoner there was simply none, instead there were some barrels and cardboard boxes and various other debris. Now, the thing is that when I return to those levels then the layout and what lies on my path is the same as long as I keep the same character. If I change it and get another one, than that same level (or any others I've played in so far) will have many objects and environmental things changed around, but the same applies to those other characters, if I keep playing with them and leave and than come back to those specific levels, then it remains the same (the layout I mean).
So, there's that, and also (obviously) the actual mobs spawning at different locations and regularly enough. It's nothing exaggerated either, it's actually well balanced, there's a spawning pause in specific map areas after you "clear" them before anything spawns again, it's not immediate, but mobs do spawn at and from cleared areas. Also, the types of mobs will differ when they spawn, you might get 10 generic zombies, or instead say... 4 zombies and 2 lesser demons, etc, very similar to Diablo II. So, sure, it creates some nice replay value there, not only do creating new characters seem to result in differently layed-out maps, but mobs are randomized as you play around.
Finally, still regarding randomization, it looks like the mobs in any given level will patrol and just wander around very large areas, I'm not sure if they do have a limited radius of action like in similar games. The best way to test that is obviously to get aggro, and then just letting the mob(s) chasing you until at "some point" it will stop and run back from where the aggro started, which would mean of course that beyond a certain radius or distance they stop attacking. Now, so far, in this game it doesn't seem to be the case, that or their radius of action is so large as to cover most of if not the whole maps (but remember, the maps are small generally speaking anyway).
A moment I liked related to that was that at some point I remember stopping with my Blademaster after I had "cleared" an area, so I checked my inventory to see what new items I just picked up (and to identify some of them, because yes we have to identify most of what we find)... but since the game doesn't stop when you access your inventory and mobs just continue roaming around I just never noticed, but while I was checking up my inventory some patrolling lesser demon thing attacked me and of course it made me jump off my chair. Contrarily to Diablo II in which a cleared area is effectively CLEARED, this one doesn't like it that way, nope, mobs roam and wander around, so if you stand still for whatever reason you might well end up as that next zombie's meal.
º The items drop rates (items quantity, type and quality) is actually good. It's nothing exaggeratedly low (like Diablo II, for instance, and I'm NOT talking about white items and health potions here), I've found good items already on two of my three characters, most of which are "Rare" (blue), along with a few... erm... "uniques" I think they are? I'm not sure, but the color is orange, above "rare" but I don't think they are "Legendary" (there's Legendary and Mystique, and Set, as well). Anyway, the point is that I found uniquely-named items and it feels nice, especially considering that I might play this on a casual basis rather than often.
º Enemies animations and ragdolls, indeed, most (not all, mind you) animations for mobs (when they're alive and fighting that is) are good, or "decent", at worst, and I think it's a plus due to the game's age, I was expecting worse really. And there's ragdolls for the mobs when they die (or when they explode, too).
CONS (same as above, some stuff I don't like, could change later on)
º The music... ugh, no thanks, turned it Off, playing with my own music in the background with other media players, that'll do.
º Character animations in third-person view, because indeed contrarily to most animations made for the foes the ones we got for our characters are rather lacking, not to say anything else... well, to be fair, some are "ok"... kinda, but I just mostly play in first-person view, NOT because I want, actually, but because I can't really stand those third-person animations on my characters. It's not worse than Oblivion or Morrowind... at least, but similar anyway.
º Lack of DX10? I don't know about that one, I consider it a CON because I do remember the original version of Hellgate London supporting some of it, not sure why they removed it for this one (Hellgate Global seems to be the full name?).
º Linearity of levels.
Indeed, it's contradictory but hey I never asked for it. The thing is... from what I've seen so far anyway (keep that in mind, only three Level 6 characters) is that despite the somewhat good amount of randomization occurring inside any given level, the actual level itself is rather narrow, mostly corridor-shaped. Additionally, let's forget about "exploration" in this game, almost completely, because other than sometimes (I.E very rarely) being able to "enter" some abandoned building and walking up some stairs from either sides of the street (and they all look the same) there's really nothing to explore within the levels themselves.
The only "secret" I've found by "exploring" (it really wasn't exploration per-se, it just happened to be on my path inside an actual subway corridor) was another separate level I could enter from the one I was in, accessed by a manhole/top opening. I really just happened to look down and suddenly I saw the interaction icon pop-up, notifying me that I could enter a level from there, which I did, and I ended up in a very small confined level with no enemies and only Paladium and crates lying around to pick up. That's about it, better than nothing, sure... but there's no exploration so far, even Diablo II itself had more open-ended environments. So yeah it's a CON, it annoys me sometimes when I do look at it, but the randomization inside those linear levels do help to forget about it, just a bit.
º The sounds (ambient sounds, weapons, etc) aren't very good, feels cheap or lacking (cheap when it comes to firing guns, and lacking when it comes to ambient sounds). I like the context of the game, although cliché I still like it (demons invading Earth, basically), so I would expect to hear some strange daemonic groans in the distance or some yells and cries of despair from unseen survivors... I'd like to think of something along the veins of the ambient sounds and "noises" we had in STALKER, but adjusted for this one's context. But overall it's lacking, and what we have isn't exactly fitting, or of good quality (very subjective, but that's my take on what I heard so far, it might change later on).
º No servers selection? Because unless I missed it, after creating my characters I jumped straight to the game and started playing. Is there only one server running this? I'm worried because I did get some (I.E lots of) lag, so logging out and logging back in in the hope of ending up in different instances (possibly servers) to "fix" the lag seems to be out of question for now. I did have to leave due to getting too much lag.
OVERALL (will surely change over time)
º It's good, really, it is, I'm surprised.
From my early experiences I would give it a solid 6.5/10 (and yes that's good for me). Not only will I keep it installed, but I'll play it from time to time. This game, in the end, is the filler I wanted until Diablo III comes out (where in the great heck are you Torchlight 2?).
Last edited:
apoppin
Lifer
Hg:L is very much a Diablo II 3-D clone and it appears that it is the same unchanged game that was taken down. If you can play it in DX10, it goes from looking ordinary to extraordinary.
i'll check it out at the end of the month. Hopefully there will be expansions; Stonehenge did much to address the "sameness" issue - you got bright daylight and upgraded dungeons unlike in the vanilla game.
If you want to be in the thick of everything - in their face with the demons, you want Blademaster. Engineer is more long-distance (Sniper) but he does get cool toys to play with. Summoner got confusing until you got the higher-level demons to help you.
i'll check it out at the end of the month. Hopefully there will be expansions; Stonehenge did much to address the "sameness" issue - you got bright daylight and upgraded dungeons unlike in the vanilla game.
If you want to be in the thick of everything - in their face with the demons, you want Blademaster. Engineer is more long-distance (Sniper) but he does get cool toys to play with. Summoner got confusing until you got the higher-level demons to help you.
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M0oG0oGaiPan
Diamond Member
dled it last night. going to check it out.
Anomaly1964
Platinum Member
Playing now...
Game Screen keeps going black...?
Controls and point system seem complicated...?
Not sure I like it...
Game Screen keeps going black...?
Controls and point system seem complicated...?
Not sure I like it...
zinfamous
No Lifer
I don't like the skill categories are used to simply determine the amount of equipment that you can equip. Kinda....annoying.
zinfamous
No Lifer
this beta is only in DX9, unfortunately. it looks like ass, mostly.
zinfamous
No Lifer
I assume they will, it is just beta. I should check with this dude I know, he was actually on the dev team for this re-release the last 2+ years, heh. I don't see him that often, though.
But the complaints I see here are pretty much what I've felt--it is not polished at all: weak animations, very clunky, ultrarepetitive quests styles--go kill this many enemies, get loot, now go kill this many of this type, and then this many of this type. oh, go kill this monster in this zone so that we can move refugees. Oh, this big monster is in this zone, go kill him.
The text is poorly written--is it mostly a Korean company? it's lolbad. 😀
The opening sequence, which is the same as the old, I think--I do remember watching it some time ago--seems to have no relation to what you are doing as soon as you start--like, why exactly am I here, and what am I doing? :hmm:
I do not like this skill system: strength and accuracy have functions (increase mele, ranged, critical damage), but stamina, willpower, and the other--you just put points into them to allow you to equip certain items--your weapons and armor each have strength and/or willpower and/or accuracy requirements, for example, and you need to increase those categories as you level up to equip the types of items.
now...I kinda get that--it makes the items more important to your strength, what you can do, rather than arbitrary numbers that affect your "skills"--but damn, I find it annoying.
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