Anyone have good experiences with the 9700 yet?

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Rand

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
11,071
1
81
Yields have very often been measured in percentage - if not ALWAYS. You don't think that a 90% WASTE of silicon isn't going to affect the price of the unit and get passed on the the consumer?? You bet your bottom dollar it will!

I've heard of %'age figures being given to the general public as yields, but I've never before heard of yields being measured in %'age internally within the industry. Measuring by %'age would be a highly dubious proposition given how little information it presents about the level at which at given silicon is yielding.
One %'age figure can't tell us much in terms of operational silicon and speeds attainable at any each individual voltage level, along with potential modifications via FIB tools to further improve speeds after silicon has been fabbed. Has any form of adaptive bias been applied to the process to skew yields?
What are the results and how has that impacted operation at each voltage level?

If one was to measure yields in %'age you would need a chart of a few thousand different figures to even give a basic impression of how the silicon is yielding. A highly inefficient manner of presenting data to say the least.

You don't think that a 90% WASTE of silicon isn't going to affect the price of the unit and get passed on the the consumer?? You bet your bottom dollar it will!
Of course it will impact pofits, but nVidia would be well aware that they wouldnt come even reotely close to seeing any profits let alone even breaking even regardless of how well initial NV30 silicon yielded.
The NV30 is initially targeted for the extremely low volume $300+ DIY graphics card purchasers.
The profits from such a market won't be enough to even make a dent in the R&D costs to develop the NV30.
Re-couping development and fabrication costs will come when the NV30 architecture has been transferred to the mainstream in successive revisions.


 

Smilin

Diamond Member
Mar 4, 2002
7,357
0
0
Originally posted by: Chippy
From the forums @ KC Beatdown

I got the Radeon 9700. Just as quick as I bought , am I going to return it.

The freaking ATI drivers...suck again. The display adapter is all screwed up and ATI Tech said they won't get it fixed for a few months.

I couldn't play Battlefield 1942, Medieval"Total War, SOF 2, WC3...and I basically gave up after those four....

=(

Another snip:

Don't belive me call them. 1-905-882-2626.

And no the Drivers were not installed incorrectly. I have been trouble shooting for the past 7 days with this. I went as far as to p-partition my drive and start fresh.

Tech support finally told me there have been some recorded display problems....two of which I reported were known allready. 1942 was the biggest reported problem to them. Thats when they said a driver update was not going to be out for awhile, because they were gathering info.

Ahh Well last time I buy an ATI product when it first comes out. I will stick with my Radeon 8500le for now.


It's possible problems like this that made me think twice about getting a 9700 PRO, but many hardware sites (like AnandTech, Etc,...) reported that the drivers were "Not nVidia-quality" but pretty damn good. I'm glad I left the card in the shrink-wrap so that I can return it tomorrow....



Let me make sure I have this straight. You HAVE a 9700 in your hand and are going to return it without trying it just because some tard on the 'net can't get his to work???

ok.

My 9700 is working just fine. BF1942 has no issues that I can see. I'll try WC3 for you this weekend and let you know. People that have perfectly working cards are not coming to this forum to tell you about it...they are off playing games like they should be. Don't discount the card just because a few idiots are having some (probably self-imposed) problems.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,120
910
126
Originally posted by: Smilin
Originally posted by: Chippy
From the forums @ KC Beatdown

I got the Radeon 9700. Just as quick as I bought , am I going to return it.

The freaking ATI drivers...suck again. The display adapter is all screwed up and ATI Tech said they won't get it fixed for a few months.

I couldn't play Battlefield 1942, Medieval"Total War, SOF 2, WC3...and I basically gave up after those four....

=(

Another snip:

Don't belive me call them. 1-905-882-2626.

And no the Drivers were not installed incorrectly. I have been trouble shooting for the past 7 days with this. I went as far as to p-partition my drive and start fresh.

Tech support finally told me there have been some recorded display problems....two of which I reported were known allready. 1942 was the biggest reported problem to them. Thats when they said a driver update was not going to be out for awhile, because they were gathering info.

Ahh Well last time I buy an ATI product when it first comes out. I will stick with my Radeon 8500le for now.


It's possible problems like this that made me think twice about getting a 9700 PRO, but many hardware sites (like AnandTech, Etc,...) reported that the drivers were "Not nVidia-quality" but pretty damn good. I'm glad I left the card in the shrink-wrap so that I can return it tomorrow....



Let me make sure I have this straight. You HAVE a 9700 in your hand and are going to return it without trying it just because some tard on the 'net can't get his to work???

ok.

My 9700 is working just fine. BF1942 has no issues that I can see. I'll try WC3 for you this weekend and let you know. People that have perfectly working cards are not coming to this forum to tell you about it...they are off playing games like they should be. Don't discount the card just because a few idiots are having some (probably self-imposed) problems.

Exactly!!!:)
 

LarryJoe

Platinum Member
Oct 22, 1999
2,425
0
0
Originally posted by: imtim83
No its not luck its the choose you make. Its a easy to know what choose to take. Single. Once you make the choose you can never go back. Once you have a kid your life is over. Too bad so sad. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.


Life is over is a little strong. What if your kid could read that? I love being a Dad, and I find time for games. Not as much as before because the kids are too busy fragging on my rig! Seriously, I play at 4:00 AM now, where I used to pull all nighters trying to finish a game. I will say, I enjoy harware performance as much as the software that pushes it. I have kids aged 8.5 yrs, 6.5 yrs and 2 months. About to fire up SS2:)

LJ
 

bluemax

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2000
7,182
0
0
Originally posted by: imtim83
Well you will see how your life is over with kids. Don't worry. It will be a 24/7 thing.
Yep. There's that selfish attitude very prevalent today. Fortunately, not everyone is as self-centered as you.
Imagine... making time for someone else? What a radical new concept! :p
 

WyteWatt

Banned
Jun 8, 2001
6,255
0
0
bluemax i am not talking about myself or being self-centered. I am talking about the heck of having two kids around the same age or more in school with all the projects, reports,etc. I am telling you it will be a 24/7 thing. Mon., Tue., Wed., Thur.,Fri, Sat., Sun., and again and again. Never stopping. I am just saying it won't be easy and its not fun. I didn't say i did not do it because i had to do it. Just saying the more kids you have around the same age the worst it is. I hear people complain about it all the time. Heck i rather work 24/7 than do that. I am serious too. I am sure i will be someone who works a lot just because i want to not that i have to. Plus its not like the kids are the only one with the homework its the parnets too. Why you may ask. Well the parnets need to get the kid's stuff they need, help them, etc, etc. A lot of the time to its a 24/7 school thing every single day. No breaks. I am serious too. Nothing else but school too. So you always will be inside because you have to finish everything and help. I don't have a problem with this because i already did it. I just don't feel like having to go through it again and again. Or even double the amount at the same time. I would rather work over that too. I always wished work over it because at least you get paid. Thats all. I am not trying to be self-centered or me me me because i am always helping people. Its not always me me me. I am not like that at all. Just saying kids come back to haunt you sorta. And of course if you choose not to help then you can do that or if the kid chooses not to do the work but sooner or later you have to do it.
 

SpideyCU

Golden Member
Nov 17, 2000
1,402
0
0
Then you just aren't the type to have kids, and you should never spawn. First off, you should kick yourself for going off-topic with such a ridiculous statement. Second of all, if it doesn't work for you, don't do it. Trust us, we can do without people like you bringing kids into the world if they're not wanted. Too late I suppose. Lastly, I find it amusing when other people say they love their families and you, essentially, tell them they shouldn't. Get a life, since you obviously aren't a happy person. If you feel the need to bring this issue up and have it discussed, to go Off Topic, I'm sure plenty of people there would LOVE to hear your opinions on how miserable life is for a family man.

Now, back ON topic, I agree with the others - Chippy, if you already went through the trouble of buying the card, give it a whirl. Now - don't take this the wrong way, but - why would you buy a card, a relatively expensive one at that, if you weren't sure about your purchase? I'm well aware that you can return it if need be, it seems less trouble to see ahead of time whether or not this is something you'd use.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
"I have one. It owns. One of these days(if I ever have a day off work) I will run a full benchmark suite and let you boys know the result. All I've run so far is Q3 1024x768 - 230fps, and Q3 1024x768 w/ full AA and Ansio, 162 fps. And, as much as I hate this benchmark, I'm sure you all want to know, my 3DMark is 12930."

A few things To note. Youy system is running 1800Mhz Correct? my P4 is at 2550mhz and I have a Ti4600. After running Q3 at the same resolution you specified and everything else maxed (I assumed you did the same?) I have a couple interesting comparisons. My score with NO AA/AF was 264.7FPS while your 9700Pro got 230. Full AF (8X) and 4X AA I only get 86.3FPS. OUCH! compare that to the 162Fps of the 9700. This is exactly what I was looking for. I no longer play games without adding AA and AF and now there is a card that allows me to run them both at high rez. my 3dmark score is 12709 which isn't too far behind your score of 12930, but I suppose my P4 is helping considerably.

This really justifies my purchase of a 9700 very soon. Not to mention the fact that my friend will be building a new system and he is interested in purchasing my Ti4600 so it will soften the burden of $300+.
 

WyteWatt

Banned
Jun 8, 2001
6,255
0
0
I get 95 fps in quake 3 arena at 1024x768 with all details on high maximum 4x FSAA and maximum 8x AF! I know thats not much better but heck its playable. Even during the heavy fight scenes. Just saying. I know not all games are playable with that. The ATI 9700 pro does a good job of adding 60 to 80 fps more than the GF4 ti 4600 when turning on FSAA and AF full which is a lot more fps for sure. 60 to 80 fps more will surely make the game playable.

 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
that's why I'm getting it. IF Q3 can get these boosts then that means MOH, RTCW and other Q3 engine games will see similar boosts. Maybe not to the same extent but I think you'll see a similar percentage.
 

WyteWatt

Banned
Jun 8, 2001
6,255
0
0
cmdrdredd yep not bad. I want a video card with no performence hit with maximum FSAA and maximum AF on at any resolution now!! Hehe. I know i may have to wait a while but so be it if i have too. Hoping at least by the R400 and NV40 they will beable to do that. Who knows it may even be before those two video cards.

 

Wolfsraider

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2002
8,305
0
76
another dad here and ehem i have a wonderful life

last year we had 13 computers lol yes 9 were older ones lol

my kids drool over having their own computers 1=10 1=8 1=3 lol

and the ps2 and gamecube are getting dusty:(

now somebody get my p-4 2.4b from arkansas so i can play faster lol
<----spent 600.00 on the processor after buying the "old lady a grand caravan leather etc...


screw being single i'd miss my family and computer upgrades lol

thanks for all your views on the video market they are intresting

<---counts pennies hmmm.....christmas if i just save my change or a month if i put aside 150.00?
 

chainbolt

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2000
1,101
0
0
Originally posted by: DARRIN
Originally posted by: Deeko
I have one. It owns. One of these days(if I ever have a day off work) I will run a full benchmark suite and let you boys know the result. All I've run so far is Q3 1024x768 - 230fps, and Q3 1024x768 w/ full AA and Ansio, 162 fps. And, as much as I hate this benchmark, I'm sure you all want to know, my 3DMark is 12930.

Man I though your 3dmark2001 would be higher than that. I get 12,009 with my G4 4600. I'm not going to shell out $350 for another 900 points.


and I get 11,400 marks in default with a GF3 TI500. From that point of view there was and is no reason for a GF4. :)
 

coloumb

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,069
0
81
Q3A engine games are old technology. What kind of FPS people are getting with the latest games [Mafia, BF1942, etc] with maxed out settings? I'm definitely interested in this card as my Visiontek GF3 is showing it's age...
 

SpideyCU

Golden Member
Nov 17, 2000
1,402
0
0
I'm interested in the same, coloumb. While it's nice to see such high numbers, I myself won't make a decision on what to use for tomorrow's games using yesterdays benchmarks. If anyone has anything in this area to throw out, I (and I imagine others) would be quite interested in hearing about it.
 

ragiepew

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,899
0
0
Originally posted by: DARRIN
Originally posted by: Deeko
I have one. It owns. One of these days(if I ever have a day off work) I will run a full benchmark suite and let you boys know the result. All I've run so far is Q3 1024x768 - 230fps, and Q3 1024x768 w/ full AA and Ansio, 162 fps. And, as much as I hate this benchmark, I'm sure you all want to know, my 3DMark is 12930.

Man I though your 3dmark2001 would be higher than that. I get 12,009 with my G4 4600. I'm not going to shell out $350 for another 900 points.
I've got a 9700 Pro and I get 16290 3dmarks... is ~4200 worth $350? Personaly I dont think a benchmark is worth anything though... Also, you should know that there are many other things that go into the 3dmark score other than GPU... sure GPU is the most important, but there are other factors...

And BTW, I've no problems w/ mine at all... runs like a champ. If you want to see what system i'm running, check my systems link.

Also, like has been said... most people dont post praises... only time most people take the time to post about their products is when they are having problems.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
I go by Q3 numbers and RTCW etc because they are what I play. I don't play must else in the FPS genre becides UT. UT2003 is not available yet to benchmark so we have to use what we have.
 

BLiT45

Member
Aug 23, 2002
30
0
0
Well alot of you seem to have Ti4600 cards out there. I'll make it easy for you, you have already spent alot of money fairly recently, I mean, these cards are not really that old are they? Anyhow they are enough for all of today's games, provided the right CPU is used, (fast enough). Now about AA/ and ANISO at high resolutions, well there is where the 9700 really shines. Maybe if your especially rich that will be reason for you to upgrade, if you already have a fast card like the Ti4600.

Now, where would it be worth to upgrade? Well perhaps if your running an older card, ummm...anything less than a GF3 would be considered grounds for upgrading. Want to push it a bit, say up to and including a GF3 card, or Radeon 8500 would qualify it being "worth your while". Now if one had those slower cards, and choose to spend money to upgrade to a Ti4600, I would tell him he/she is nuts, considering your not going to spend much more on at ATI 9700, right? Might as well chip in the extra $75 US. Well worth it in that case. See if you think of it that way, why don't you go bug some poor guy that he's wasted his money on buying a Ti4600? That is the true waste of money, at least while the prices of these cards are so close...

I don't think the ATI 9700 is bleeding edge, your getting great value for the money invested...for less than a 25% price difference from the Ti4600, you are getting well over 50% to 100% more performance if you consider AA/ and ANSIO benchmarks, and I'd say at least 40% faster in all the other benchmarks against the Ti4600. (Some are CPU limited for both). Just think, right before the ATI 9700 came out, the Ti4600's were the same price! This was only weeks ago...and none of you were complaining about it being too expensive, bleeding edge, and all that crap. You want MY definition of bleeding edge, (IE where you are wasting your money for little gain), well then, fork over the $$$ for a P4 2.8 GHz, double the price of the P4 2.53, and as you can see not a whole lot faster.

As for the problems people have been reporting here (with the ATI 9700 and especially 8x AGP MoBo's...yeah, I see it's true, and I'm basically on hold right now trying to gather more information before I spend my money on a new card...(the 9700 of course)...:) Sides, I can justify it, I only have a P3-450 and a GF2 MX over here...:-( I gotta upgrade the whole works pretty much...
 

conlan

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
3,395
0
76
No its not luck its the choose you make. Its a easy to know what choose to take. Single. Once you make the choose you can never go back. Once you have a kid your life is over. Too bad so sad. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

I have 4 kids and have been a single-parent the last 7+ years. The experience has enriched my life far more than owning expensive computer hardware. Granted we are all different, and have differing opinions on becoming/being Parents, and if it's not for you, then by all means, don't go there. But don't make assinine statements concerning those of us who have decided otherwise.
 

BLiT45

Member
Aug 23, 2002
30
0
0
Ummm let me butt in here again...

I don't think he was making statements about the rest of you guys with kids, I read it he was having some trouble on that front himself...sounds like he needs the money for upgrades and had to buy diapers instead...sounds like he was young and didn't accumulate all the things alot of you guys have already, (house, car, good job). Perhaps the kid was unexpected...

Anyhow just guessing for the most part...but my point was, I don't think he meant anyone of you but himself.
 

ErikaeanLogic

Platinum Member
Feb 14, 2000
2,469
0
76
um, I hate to interrupt the "domestic vs. single" issue (a valid one, perhaps for another thread;)), but has anybody noticed that the graphic QUALITY of the Radeon 9700 is superb:Q?!? I mean, the performance numbers are certainly there, and they do smoke everything other available video card out there with all the bells and whistles turned on, but the difference in image quality is great:D! How great? Well, I used to think that the truck benches on 3DMark2001 were boring (and they are:p), but the "High Detail" truck bench is extremely lush, textures are excellent, and the colors are vibrant without being bleached out the way they were on my GF4 Ti4600. Anybody else who switched from a GF4 to an R300 want to back me up;)? Serious Sam 2 is incredible with 1600x1200, 2x AA, and 16-tap AF! My UT2003 gameplay went from an "adequate" 1280x1024 to a buttery smooth 1600x1200, too:D!*

So, there you have some of my "good experiences":).







* uh, that is, if I had UT2003;)