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Anyone have experience growing grapes?

My in-laws live on a 70 acre farm in eastern-PA. They don't farm it anymore (they just rent some of the fields out). One of their daughters lives with them. Their oldest daughter just built a house with her husband and kids on the same farm. The farm was handed down to my in-laws from my mother in laws parents.

Anyway, they have agreed to let my wife and I use half and acre or so to try growing some grapes. Both my wife and I are interested in trying to make our own wine, so we figure we can plant grapes, and in the time it takes for them to mature, we can learn the process using pre-made juice.

Anyone have any experience growing grapes? I like dry red wines, and the variety I have found native to america is the Norton/Cynthiana grape, which is supposed to be very disease resistant and winter hardy.

I don't want to deal with any grafted vines like cabernet (even though it is my favorite) since they are more difficult.

I imagine we will need to modify the soil down to at least 3 feet to get the proper drainage/ph/etc...?

It looks like we can buy 1 year old vines for about $3 each, so I figured we could buy 50 or so vines.
 
I grow them in my backyard. They tend to need slightly acidic soil with lots of ground cover. They're very easy to grow other than that. I personally just threw my grass clippings at the base of the vines and they grew like crazy. Water every other day, and make sure they have a good trellis system to climb up---the more the vines are in the air the more grapes you'll get.

We made a bunch of grape jelly with our Concords. Might try wine next year 😉
 
There's some decent wineries in PA and MD. I'd go and ask them. They're generally smaller operations, and I'd bet they would help you out with specific advice.
 
Originally posted by: nkgreen
My dad grows scuppernongs. Damn tasty.

We have 2 vines in our back yard. These are super easy to grow and taste great! We usually don't do anything to them and they just grow like crazy. However I think a few years ago we did prune or trim them, whatever it is you do with these vines. Otherwise just get a nice sturdy structure for them to grow on and let them go!
 
Originally posted by: DEMO24


We have 2 vines in our back yard. These are super easy to grow and taste great! We usually don't do anything to them and they just grow like crazy. However I think a few years ago we did prune or trim them, whatever it is you do with these vines. Otherwise just get a nice sturdy structure for them to grow on and let them go!

I used to drive by a vineyard regularly, and they would heavily cut the vines back at some time of year(early spring if I remember right). They would cut the main vine to about 4' high, and get rid of all the small leaders coming off of it.
 
Originally posted by: bignateyk
My in-laws live on a 70 acre farm in eastern-PA. They don't farm it anymore (they just rent some of the fields out). One of their daughters lives with them. Their oldest daughter just built a house with her husband and kids on the same farm. The farm was handed down to my in-laws from my mother in laws parents.

Anyway, they have agreed to let my wife and I use half and acre or so to try growing some grapes. Both my wife and I are interested in trying to make our own wine, so we figure we can plant grapes, and in the time it takes for them to mature, we can learn the process using pre-made juice.

Anyone have any experience growing grapes? I like dry red wines, and the variety I have found native to america is the Norton/Cynthiana grape, which is supposed to be very disease resistant and winter hardy.

I don't want to deal with any grafted vines like cabernet (even though it is my favorite) since they are more difficult.

I imagine we will need to modify the soil down to at least 3 feet to get the proper drainage/ph/etc...?

It looks like we can buy 1 year old vines for about $3 each, so I figured we could buy 50 or so vines.

As soon as I read your location I was going to suggest Norton. I grew up in Mendocino County and I have friends that own vineyards and grow grapes professionally, mostly selling to Clos Du Bois, Parducci, Fetzer, McNab Ridge and Navarro. Zin, Chard and Merlot.

My husband and I intend to move back there soon and, while we'll be doing dairy professionally, we'll have some grapes and do home winemaking on the side. My husband knows his stuff; PM linuxboy if you've got questions.
 
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: DEMO24


We have 2 vines in our back yard. These are super easy to grow and taste great! We usually don't do anything to them and they just grow like crazy. However I think a few years ago we did prune or trim them, whatever it is you do with these vines. Otherwise just get a nice sturdy structure for them to grow on and let them go!

I used to drive by a vineyard regularly, and they would heavily cut the vines back at some time of year(early spring if I remember right). They would cut the main vine to about 4' high, and get rid of all the small leaders coming off of it.

Depends on if you expect a late freeze. In some areas they let some small vines grow out and they bury them. If there's a late freeze that kills the small vines, they can then unbury them and they still have some crop. It's an expensive procedure and not a lot of vineyards do it; has to be a high risk area. I would imagine PA would qualify as high risk for freezing late in the season, but I've never lived there.

Oh, you probably won't get much crop off your vines for the first few years.
 
Originally posted by: AreaCode707
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: DEMO24


We have 2 vines in our back yard. These are super easy to grow and taste great! We usually don't do anything to them and they just grow like crazy. However I think a few years ago we did prune or trim them, whatever it is you do with these vines. Otherwise just get a nice sturdy structure for them to grow on and let them go!

I used to drive by a vineyard regularly, and they would heavily cut the vines back at some time of year(early spring if I remember right). They would cut the main vine to about 4' high, and get rid of all the small leaders coming off of it.

Depends on if you expect a late freeze. In some areas they let some small vines grow out and they bury them. If there's a late freeze that kills the small vines, they can then unbury them and they still have some crop. It's an expensive procedure and not a lot of vineyards do it; has to be a high risk area. I would imagine PA would qualify as high risk for freezing late in the season, but I've never lived there.

Oh, you probably won't get much crop off your vines for the first few years.


Yeah, that will give us time to actually learn about the wine making process using juice we buy elsewhere in the meantime.

I am most concerned about soil. I keep reading they like sandy loam soil, but I need to figure out what depth they like that type of soil, etc..., and I need to figure out the composition of the soil on the farm.
 
i had one concord grape fine a few years ago. that one vine filled 5 plastic shopping bags of grapes and we made some awesome grape jelly out of them.

sadly due to remodeling i had to tear the vine out and i sure do miss it. i had it next to my front door and i loved walking out in the morning and having the scent of those grapes greet me.

 
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: DEMO24


We have 2 vines in our back yard. These are super easy to grow and taste great! We usually don't do anything to them and they just grow like crazy. However I think a few years ago we did prune or trim them, whatever it is you do with these vines. Otherwise just get a nice sturdy structure for them to grow on and let them go!

I used to drive by a vineyard regularly, and they would heavily cut the vines back at some time of year(early spring if I remember right). They would cut the main vine to about 4' high, and get rid of all the small leaders coming off of it.

that's what i did with mine. i lived on the mosel river in Germany and was around the vineyards a lot and that is how they did it.

 
We used to have an acre and a half in the 70's in Florida. First recommendation, check with the local agricultural extension service. They will know local resources. And that Rodale link looks good. In FL, the University of FL's ag school did research on grape cultivars in conjunction with North Carolina. They would have a yearly field day with tips, new strain discussions, etc. That will help you keep current on the business and find suitable resources.

Now my knowledge is based on southern grapes, which consist of Scuppernong, Muscadine, and some of the research bunch grapes. The South has a challenge with a Grape Antracnose that kills non-resistant strains. Those would be things like Blue Lake, Merlot, Champagne, etc. PA should be able to grow those popular wine strains as well as others.

To start, you need to research what to grow. You then need to order. But in the meantime, it is post hole digging time. We used a non T 2 wire setup. 10' post to post, with a mid wire and a top wire. I think a T style might be better with a cross bar on the post and wires on each end, but you get into loaded weights ... check with the growers of the cultivars and what current tech is. But that did mean that my dad and I put in over 120 treated posts... 2 wires... 10 feet apart, 2400 feet of galvanzied wire. At the end of each row, you MUST run a guy wire and anchor. You are going to support thousands of pounds on that line and post system, so you must set an anchor. The rows need to be far enough apart to get your tractor through with room to spare. You will want a mower. You will probably buy RoundUp by the gallon concentrate (used for weed control around the base of the grapes).

You plant the grapes between the poles. It takes about 3 years before you get your first minimal crop. Year 1 and 2 are watering, training, pest management, and fertilizing. Our whips started at about 2' and were not tall enough to reach the middle wire. We made an anchor to go into the ground and attached a string. We then run the line up and looped it around the middle wire and then up to the top, tying it off. Using either raffa or plastic tape (and a stapler), we did a loose couple of wraps around the whip and put in on the string. Much caution is used because too tight can cause girdling. Plan for growth and potentially making it easy to remove or replace the wrap in year 2, 3. Be very careful of the tip. You want the tip to go all the way to the top and not have to restart a new one.

With a good growing season, you check periodically (1 month?) all your anchors. You pinch off all side growth focusing on the tip. As the whip gets to and past the mid wire, you select two buds to train down the wire (don' t pinch!). As it passes, you now have a tip and two side buds to monitor. You wrap the side buds down the wire using the same technique you used with tip so that you can get a branch down the wires. When the tip gets near the top wire, monitor a couple of buds (not pinching) to select your top wire branches. When you have 2 near the top wire, pinch the original tip. You now have a double T of branches. As the branches get established on the wire, you can then remove the guide string and any main trunk wraps. In the 2nd and 3rd year, you are still training and wrapping on the wires. But remember that you will be removing wraps to avoid girdling.

Every winter, it is pruning shear time. You remove all of the season growth by trimming between the 2nd and 3rd knuckle of the new growth. You prune hard getting back to sticks on branches on the wire. Most grapes are only on new growth, so you do not care about last seasons. But hey, you can make wreaths from the vines. As bundles, the wood should be good for smoking fish and pork... This is one of those things that you want someone to show you how to do. The pruning is very important and insures that you have a crop next year. It is done with the vines are dormant. So, in PA, expect cold hands.

That is about all I can think of at the moment.
 
Originally posted by: DEMO24
Originally posted by: nkgreen
My dad grows scuppernongs. Damn tasty.

We have 2 vines in our back yard. These are super easy to grow and taste great! We usually don't do anything to them and they just grow like crazy. However I think a few years ago we did prune or trim them, whatever it is you do with these vines. Otherwise just get a nice sturdy structure for them to grow on and let them go!

My in-laws grow muscadine which looks similar to these. They make homemade wine with them and it's some strong stuff.

 
No, go with a 100 or more if you can. Remember you are doing scale. 100 vines is going to be about what we did. That will be 1-1.5 acres, lots of post holes (tractor, PTO, power post hole digger is really the only way to go), and some serious wire pulling. A "Come-A-Long" hand wench attached to the tractor is how we tensioned the wire if I remember correctly (don't pull with the tractor, attach to it and hand tighten).
 
Originally posted by: gsellis
No, go with a 100 or more if you can. Remember you are doing scale. 100 vines is going to be about what we did. That will be 1-1.5 acres, lots of post holes (tractor, PTO, power post hole digger is really the only way to go), and some serious wire pulling. A "Come-A-Long" hand wench attached to the tractor is how we tensioned the wire if I remember correctly (don't pull with the tractor, attach to it and hand tighten).

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. My father-in-law still has all the farm equipment like tractors, plows, etc... Not sure about a post hole digger, but i'm sure we could rent one for a couple days.

1-1.5 acres for 100 vines? Most of the websites I have seen indicate about 500/acre at 10 foot spacing. i.e. http://www.eccevines.com/grapevine-spacing-chart.html

I was thinking I could do 100 vines on a quarter of an acre. (I would probably do two long rows, one row with norton, and one row with chardonnay or something)
 
Originally posted by: bignateyk
Originally posted by: gsellis
No, go with a 100 or more if you can. Remember you are doing scale. 100 vines is going to be about what we did. That will be 1-1.5 acres, lots of post holes (tractor, PTO, power post hole digger is really the only way to go), and some serious wire pulling. A "Come-A-Long" hand wench attached to the tractor is how we tensioned the wire if I remember correctly (don't pull with the tractor, attach to it and hand tighten).

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. My father-in-law still has all the farm equipment like tractors, plows, etc... Not sure about a post hole digger, but i'm sure we could rent one for a couple days.

1-1.5 acres for 100 vines? Most of the websites I have seen indicate about 500/acre at 10 foot spacing. i.e. http://www.eccevines.com/grapevine-spacing-chart.html

I was thinking I could do 100 vines on a quarter of an acre. (I would probably do two long rows, one row with norton, and one row with chardonnay or something)
Go with the new info. Like I said, it was the 70's that we did it. I could run down all of our rows with a full-sized Case and bushhog, and we did have a pond in the middle now that I think about it.

I am not sure about their recommendation on mounding. I guess that depends on your watering. During the dry season, we pumped water into 2 55g barrels on a sled and went through with a bucket to each vine. We created a dike around the root area to hold the water into the hole. But this was FL, where the soil has so much sand that it water sinks in in less than 30 seconds.

🙂 That makes me realize, I was driving a tractor at about age 12.

 
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