anyone gonna git kindle fire?

[boomhower]

who wants another monthly bill?

This is why we need data buckets and not a data plan for every device.


I may buy one for the kids to play with. I love my iPad 2 and have no plans to change that. The kids like playing with it but letting them play with a $500 device doesn't happen often. At $200 it's not a very big deal. I've been happy enough with the Amazon Market that it's not a massive loss on that side. Biggest loss is going to be Netflix. Obviously they want you to use their video service, which I have, but I want Netlfix as well. A 100 epidodes of Dora can keep a five year old entertained for quite a while.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Some thoughts...

Amazon will have the most successful Android tablet, and it'll be without Google apps.

The Amazon app store is pretty good, a good user experience and good prices (although it looks like the developers get screwed over pretty easily)

@ $199, it's near impulse purchase territory, so sales will be massive

The device that just got killed is the iPod Touch. And if the 10" tablet has a camera or two, the iPad will finally have a serious competitor.

I just pre ordered one, I suspect they'll be in short supply very soon.

I wonder what Google will do... This pretty much kills Android on tablets for all the manufacturers, selling as a loss leader for Amazon. If the 10" is near $300, the Google Android tablet market is dead, and the iPad will have some pricing pressure.

 

[jpeyton]

Then she wouldn't have been in the market for an iPad anyway, so it doesn't really cut into Apple's sales.

It's not just about sales. It's about the concept of OS "lock-in" and why the market share land-grab is so important.

If I owned $10,000 worth of Canon lenses, and Nikon released a better camera than Canon, would I take a bath on all my Canon equipment just to switch? Very unlikely, unless the camera was so significantly better.

If I owned several hundred dollars worth of apps, games, and music from the iTunes and App store, how likely would I want to switch to Android and have to repurchase everything? And vice versa for Android users.

Google doesn't (and shouldn't) care about fully monetizing Android right now. Monetizing a platform is easy once you have the user base locked-in. Just ask Facebook. Google wants to pump Android into every handset/tablet on every carrier at every price-point.

Amazon customized the Kindle Fire's OS with the blessing of Google. It's still Android; it still runs Android apps (thus supporting the Android app ecosystem), those apps still serve ads using AdMob (owned by Google), and most importantly: it keeps another person from joining Apple's iOS ecosystem.

Even if a person can't currently afford an iPad right now, and they buy a Kindle Fire, they are still joining the Android ecosystem. Maybe a year down the line, when they can afford an iPad, they'll think twice and get a Galaxy Tab instead.

 

[Pliablemoose]

I want a flipping Kindle phone!!!!

 

[SlitheryDee]

I want a flipping Kindle phone!!!!

Why? I don't see any advantage a kindle branded amazon phone would have over any other android phone, except possibly price if they sold them at a loss like the tablets.

 

[Pliablemoose]

It's not just about sales. It's about the concept of OS "lock-in" and why the market share land-grab is so important.

If I owned $10,000 worth of Canon lenses, and Nikon released a better camera than Canon, would I take a bath on all my Canon equipment just to switch? Very unlikely, unless the camera was so significantly better.

If I owned several hundred dollars worth of apps, games, and music from the iTunes and App store, how likely would I want to switch to Android and have to repurchase everything? And vice versa for Android users.

Google doesn't (and shouldn't) care about fully monetizing Android right now. Monetizing a platform is easy once you have the user base locked-in. Just ask Facebook. Google wants to pump Android into every handset/tablet on every carrier at every price-point.

Amazon customized the Kindle Fire's OS with the blessing of Google. It's still Android; it still runs Android apps (thus supporting the Android app ecosystem), those apps still serve ads using AdMob (owned by Google), and most importantly: it keeps another person from joining Apple's iOS ecosystem.

Even if a person can't currently afford an iPad right now, and they buy a Kindle Fire, they are still joining the Android ecosystem. Maybe a year down the line, when they can afford an iPad, they'll think twice and get a Galaxy Tab instead.

I think you're missing the point, this thing is Android turned against Google, or it'd have Google apps. I don't think Google is happy about this at all.

http://thisismynext.com/2011/09/28/editorial-amazon-android-google/

 

[Doppel]

Im excited about what amazon is doing here, but having an iPad 2 already, I'm hesitant to purchase another device that's technically a step back. I'm more likely to buy a higher end device than what I have now and relegate the iPad 2 to lounge duty at that time. Tegra 3 looks exciting, and I have the iPad 3 to look forward to, or I may decide to skip a generation and see what's arriving next holiday season. Whatever happens, I'm very interested in tablets in general, so I'll always be in the market for something better than what I have. It doesn't look like the fire will fit that particular bill.

ipad > fire, so I see no point in getting one for you.

I don't have an ipad because I have a laptop for the house and laptop > ipad. However, for $200 just to dick around with the thing I think I may need it.

If I preorder on Amazon now I assume I can cancel the order later, so is there any reason not to order one now? Maybe they'll all sell out and I can sell it online on Dec 20 for $250 even if I hate the thing

This thing will negatively impact Apple sales unless it somehow kills off apple's competitors without taking its market share, which I find unlikely. I have wanted an ipad for a while but not for $500. If it were $200 I'd already have one, and then only to surf the net in front of the tv and play a few dinky games on anyway. The Fire finally meets that price point.

 

[ponyo]

I really doubt Amazon is taking a loss on the tablet. I think I read somewhere the Playbook had a cost of ~$200. Things should be even cheaper now since it's 6 months later and Amazon should do more volume. Plus, it's only 8 gig of storage and no mic and camera.

I'm not interested in this device since I own the best 7" tablet still, the original 3g Galaxy Tab. I also dislike being locked down to Amazon ecosystem and all their DRM and paid content. That said, I can see the appeal and think Amazon has hit a homerun with their entire Kindle lineup. I might buy the $79 Kindle to read at the pool and the beach.

 

[jpeyton]

I wonder what Google will do... This pretty much kills Android on tablets for all the manufacturers, selling as a loss leader for Amazon. If the 10" is near $300, the Google Android tablet market is dead, and the iPad will have some pricing pressure.

Amazon is making a small profit on the Kindle Fire. It's not a loss leader. Other Android tablet manufacturers will have to come up with innovative ways to drop their price points. Truth be told, they needed to do that anyway, even without the Kindle Fire. Competing with the iPad at the same price point will never work.

Google is going to cheer on the Kindle Fire if anything. As my previous post explained, this is a land-grab. The Kindle Fire still runs Android apps. When Amazon sells millions of Kindle Fires this holiday season, you're going to see a lot more tablet-specific apps on the Android market. That will be a win for Google, Android, and ALL Android tablet owners who have suffered through limited tablet application selection. Also, mobile advertising in Android apps are usually done using AdMob (owned by Google).

Consumers win.

 

[ponyo]

I want a flipping Kindle phone!!!!

I'm sorry but Amazon phone would seriously suck. I love Android phone for the Google apps and services. Phone without Google Voice, Maps, Navigation, calendar, etc? No thanks. You can keep it.

 

[ponyo]

Amazon is making a small profit on the Kindle Fire. It's not a loss leader. Other Android tablet manufacturers will have to come up with innovative ways to drop their price points. Truth be told, they needed to do that anyway, even without the Kindle Fire. Competing with the iPad at the same price point will never work.

Google is going to cheer on the Kindle Fire if anything. As my previous post explained, this is a land-grab. The Kindle Fire still runs Android apps. When Amazon sells millions of Kindle Fires this holiday season, you're going to see a lot more tablet-specific apps on the Android market. That will be a win for Google, Android, and ALL Android tablet owners who have suffered through limited tablet application selection. Also, mobile advertising in Android apps are usually done using AdMob (owned by Google).

Consumers win.

I agree with you. This is a win for Google and Android. Oh and Amazon is not taking a loss with the Fire. Another marketing BS spread by Amazon to make customers think they're getting even better deal by buying this tablet.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Android just got forked massively and you-all think it's a good thing for Google or Android?

LOL....

 

[poofyhairguy]

Android just got forked massively and you-all think it's a good thing for Google or Android?

Yes. Google's basic position:

"Android is an open platform – and entities other than Google are free to create their own content and marketplaces, much like the web."

http://www.webpronews.com/amazon-appstore-for-android-apps-should-help-android-2011-01

Google makes money off of Android two ways. The main way is ads on Apps. The other way is license fees for GAPPs. Google isn't getting the second from the Fire, but it is getting the first that is in line with their core business. Same as with Chinese knockoff Android devices or the Nook Color. Amazon apps are the exact same as far as I can tell as the Market Apps, which means Google ads.

If the Fire can make some legitimate Android iPad competitor exist it benefits Google greatly in PR aspects as well.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Yes. Google's basic position:



http://www.webpronews.com/amazon-appstore-for-android-apps-should-help-android-2011-01

Google makes money off of Android two ways. The main way is ads on Apps. The other way is license fees for GAPPs. Google isn't getting the second from the Fire, but it is getting the first that is in line with their core business. Same as with Chinese knockoff Android devices or the Nook Color. Amazon apps are the exact same as far as I can tell as the Market Apps, which means Google ads.

If the Fire can make some legitimate Android iPad competitor exist it benefits Google greatly in PR aspects as well.

I don't see Amazon leaving that revenue stream alone...

 

[Bateluer]

I haven't read this entire thread, but wtf?! People like the Amazon Appstore? Other than the Free App A Day program, it shouldn't exist. There's nothing it has that the Android Market does not have. Add the the fact that 1)its slow as molasses, 2)they screw over developers, 3)those screwed over developers don't bother to release their updates to Amazon, so Android Market shows an update available . . . that you cannot download . . . and Amazon shows the app as current. Its a joke.

Once apps get updated, I uninstall them entirely from my phone, and I gave up with the Free Apps weeks ago due to Amazon's shady practices. Once it attritions down, I'll remove it entirely. No loss.

Other than the price, the Kindle Fire isn't attractive. I smell a price cut to under 200 for the Nook Color 1 before 15 November.

Edit - Wild card: Can the Fire be modded into a decent, Gapps working, device by the community. Then, I'm interested. Slightly.

 

[Deeko]

How do they screw over developers?

 

[s44]

Android just got forked massively and you-all think it's a good thing for Google or Android?

Yes, because it is. Citing an Apple fanboy site to the contrary isn't an argument.

There are a lot of iFans whistling past the graveyard on this one. Fire owners mean a bigger base for Android apps and content, and more people locked in by habit and investment to an ecosystem that isn't Apple's.

 

[jpeyton]

Android just got forked massively and you-all think it's a good thing for Google or Android?

LOL....

Were you claiming it got "forked massively" when the Nook Color came out? It's an Android tablet running a customized UI, its own app store, etc.

You think Google would rather have Acer move 500,000 tablets running stock Android or Amazon move 5 million tablets running custom-skinned Android? Or worse yet, have all those potential tablet buyers go to Apple instead?

If a developer makes an Android tablet app to monetize on the success of the Kindle Fire, do you think they'll ONLY submit that app to the Amazon App Store? Nope; they'll submit it to Google's Android Market as well.

 

[Deeko]

Were you claiming it got "forked massively" when the Nook Color came out? It's an Android tablet running a customized UI, its own app store, etc.

You think Google would rather have Acer move 500,000 tablets running stock Android or Amazon move 5 million tablets running custom-skinned Android? Or worse yet, have all those potential tablet buyers go to Apple instead?

If a developer makes an Android tablet app to monetize on the success of the Kindle Fire, do you think they'll ONLY submit that app to the Amazon App Store? Nope; they'll submit it to Google's Android Market as well.

Of course it isn't a complete loss for Google, for the same reason you just said - it will encourage Android app development, and those apps will likely end up in the Android Market as well as the Amazon App Store. I'm sure Google would rather you buy the Kindle Fire than the iPad. However - for many reasons, they'd much rather you buy one of their "official" tablets.

Apps are part of it; of course Google wants a cut of every paid app, movie, and book you buy. However, that's not the only thing...its the Google ecosystem. Google craves data, they want you to buy into their entire "world" - and Android is a vessel to do that. However, in something like the Fire, you are losing that forced/encouraged gmail, google talk, google maps, google docs, google voice, etc integration. That is definitely not ideal for them. And what is to stop, say, Samsung from licensing with Amazon instead of Google for their next Tab? It theoretically could happen.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Yes, because it is. Citing an Apple fanboy site to the contrary isn't an argument.

There are a lot of iFans whistling past the graveyard on this one. Fire owners mean a bigger base for Android apps and content, and more people locked in by habit and investment to an ecosystem that isn't Apple's.

I don't buy it, if Google were so excited about this, they'd have relaxed their GAPPS restrictions for massive exposure on this device.

I'm thinking these will be the most popular tablets in short order, and honestly, I expect sales to eclipse the iPad in a year or so.

I think Amazon just killed "Android" tablets...

App development will be for the forked version of Android. Sure they can make them for Google's Android market, but if Google Android tablets continue to sell poorly, why bother? And if these devices kill the Google Android tablets, thats less incentive to develop for it...

 

[Mopetar]

I really doubt Amazon is taking a loss on the tablet. I think I read somewhere the Playbook had a cost of ~$200. Things should be even cheaper now since it's 6 months later and Amazon should do more volume. Plus, it's only 8 gig of storage and no mic and camera.

I believe that someone linked to a source that placed the BoM at $180 for the Kindle Fire, but that does not include assembly costs, shipping costs, warehousing costs, and fixed costs such as any money spent developing the device.

If the sell enough, $200 is probably about the break-even point for them. That said, Amazon isn't a charity and they fully expect to make up for lost profits from the device by selling large amounts of Amazon content to device owners. Given how little Apple's music and app store make compared to actual device sales, I don't know how much Amazon expects to make.

 

[jpeyton]

And what is to stop, say, Samsung from licensing with Amazon instead of Google for their next Tab? It theoretically could happen.

Theoretically it could. And if it does, it's a clear signal to Google that simply selling a "tablet" isn't good enough without rich media services/content behind it. It would also be a signal to Google that Android in its current incarnation works well on phones, but needs a revamped UI to work well on tablets.

Lower prices, more variety, and stronger competition. It's exactly what the tablet market and Android needs right now. The bottom line is that nobody has made a significant dent in the dominance of the iPad, and Amazon is the first company to try a significantly different approach from all other Android tablet makers.

 

[jpeyton]

App development will be for the forked version of Android.

There is no fork. It's a skin. The APK files I download from Amazon's app store install exactly the same as files from Android Market.

 

[ViRGE]

Amazon is making a small profit on the Kindle Fire. It's not a loss leader.

Has this been confirmed by a reliable source? A 7" tablet with an IPS screen and an OMAP4 has to be on the precipice of $200; I could see them doing anything from a small loss to a small profit (and anything in between). The distinction being that if it is a loss leader, then Amazon is going to go bananas when someone tries to hack it.

 

[Bateluer]

How do they screw over developers?

Go read some of the dev sites, Rootz Wiki, XDA, etc. The big one I recall was the FAotD program, in exchange for it, Amazon was supposed to put the dev's app on the front page's featured list for a specified length of time. Turns out, they didn't. And most people weren't buying from Amazon's Appstore regardless.