Question Anyne have experience with Water Panther DAS Hard drives?

[jamesdsimone]

I don't see much online about them except for sites selling them and the customer reviews. 12TB for 124.99 direct from their site. Is there any difference between DAS and NAS? I'll be using it in a standard PC not a proprietary NAS.

Are you a human?

www.newegg.com

 

[Tech Junky]

Any drive over 2tb with mbr instead of gpt will only give you 2tb partitions. All you have to do is switch it and the you have all of the space. It's a quick command.

How to Convert MBR to GPT and GPT to MBR [Step-by-Step]

Have you purchased a new hard drive but cannot access all of its disk space? Luckily for you, this article will teach you how to convert MBR to GPT.

adamtheautomator.com

 

[jamesdsimone]

Convert it to gpt.

It just occurred to me that I usually partition and format my drives with Linux. That's why I never had any issues. My Linux box is down so I've been using Windows and Windows sucks. The partition tools I have don't give me an option to use GPT. Any suggestions? I have an old install of Ubuntu I can boot into but it's pretty old and not updatable. I hope the old version of GParted can handle big drives

 

[Tech Junky]

Google windows gpt and you can do it from command prompt. Or just grab an Ubuntu iso and make a USB boot using Rufus.

 

[jamesdsimone]

Google windows gpt and you can do it from command prompt. Or just grab an Ubuntu iso and make a USB boot using Rufus.

I'll try the old Ubuntu install. If that doesn't work, I'll have to get a fresh install of Linux on one of my computers. I just haven't had time to get to it.

 

[Tech Junky]

Yes I don't need to install the os just run the livecd from a USB and configure the drive with gparted.

 

[jamesdsimone]

Yes I don't need to install the os just run the livecd from a USB and configure the drive with gparted.

I was actually thinking that this morning. I need to get my Linux system back running anyway but been too busy to work on it. But that would work in the mean time.

 

[Tech Junky]

Yeah, might as well do it now to test the drive before the return window closes in case there is indeed an issue.

 

[jamesdsimone]

Yeah, might as well do it now to test the drive before the return window closes in case there is indeed an issue.

I already have the RMA done. I think I have until 10/14/22 to return it. The old Ubuntu install didn't even see the drive but it is 10.10. I have it installed on the same hard drive as WinXP. There are some things I need the XP install for so I can't screw that up. Can I just install the latest copy of Ubuntu over the old install and not screw up my XP install? I don't have anything installed on Ubuntu that I need to save. I miss Linux.

 

[Tech Junky]

Just use a USB drive and Rufus. Grab the ISO and boot from the USB.

 

[jamesdsimone]

Just use a USB drive and Rufus. Grab the ISO and boot from the USB.

Never had much luck with USB boot drives. I had a 32GB USB drive was going to try but miss placed it. No idea where it went. I'll burn a DVD and boot from that. I know liveCD is slow.

 

[Tech Junky]

It's not slow once it boots into RAM.

 

[jamesdsimone]

Any drive over 2tb with mbr instead of gpt will only give you 2tb partitions. All you have to do is switch it and the you have all of the space. It's a quick command.

How to Convert MBR to GPT and GPT to MBR [Step-by-Step]

Have you purchased a new hard drive but cannot access all of its disk space? Luckily for you, this article will teach you how to convert MBR to GPT.

adamtheautomator.com

I tried the windows tools and they were pretty much useless. The GUI had the convert to GPT grayed out and I even tried the command promote and it said my drive couldn't be converted to GPT. Fortunately, found the option in Partition Wizard MiniTool. So I am up and running. Thanks for the input as always.

 

[Tech Junky]

I haven't used the mini tool but, yeah windows is dumb when ti comes to a advanced things.

 

[jamesdsimone]

The Mini tool seems to work pretty well. I'll go back to Gparted when I can though. In the mean time I ordered a Seagate Exos 6TB E drive. Speccy read it as having zero hours and only one power on cycle. Has the smart data been wiped or is it a new drive? I want to populate my server with 4 6TB so if they are new I'll grab 3 more.

 

[Tech Junky]

Personally I stay away from Seagate as I've been burned too many times.

 

[aigomorla]

i think half my drives are sealed WD RED PRO's which i got on a hell of a discount.
The other half are Refurb HGST He12.

As for reliability, they both haven't failed one me after 3 yrs of constant usage.
I think i only turned them off like three times for scheduled maintance on the TrueNAS server. (dusting it out, brushing the board clean.)

I would most definitely trust refurb HGST He's as well as WD Ultrastar DC's as they are just rebranded HGST He's.

 

[jamesdsimone]

I've used both WD and Seagate drives and never had a problem with either. Recently smart is telling me an old 1TB WD Black drive is bad though it seems to work fine. It's probably at least 10 years old though. I have some Hitachi and Toshiba drives too.

 

[Tech Junky]

Well, I've had a couple of Seagate drives die. Currently have a raid setup with WD though that has been running for serveal years in different cases and builds. From an SSD perspective though no matter the brand I've yet to run into an issue but, I swap them often as new tech comes along.

I just won't rely on Seagate knowingly at this point.

 

[jamesdsimone]

The Mini tool seems to work pretty well. I'll go back to Gparted when I can though. In the mean time I ordered a Seagate Exos 6TB E drive. Speccy read it as having zero hours and only one power on cycle. Has the smart data been wiped or is it a new drive? I want to populate my server with 4 6TB so if they are new I'll grab 3 more.

Anyway to check this?

 

[aigomorla]

i knew i was gonna jynx myself when i posted in this thread.
I just lost a HGST He12.
Had a good run tho... been working hard since 2018, and it died a few days ago.
Already have a replacement on the way.

Anyway to check this?

no if they wipe the firmware on the drive and reset the counters to 0, there is no way to check the age of the drive.
Some refurb vendors would do that, but they would never sell them as new.
If it has a 0 counter, and its a refurb, they wiped the smart probably by reflashing the firmware.

Well, I've had a couple of Seagate drives die.

I just won't rely on Seagate knowingly at this point.

Ive lost more seagates then i can count.
They always seem to die right as the warrenty expires too.
It felt like i was dealing with apple devices.

Ive gotten so bad luck with seagate i even lost a Raid10 array because by my luck i lost 4 disks on a 6 drive Raid10 in a span of 3 days while waiting for replacements to arrive.

And it wasn't 2:2, but 3:1, so not enough drives to rebuild the array.

You could tell how pissed i was, i won't ever touch another seagate drive again.

However i hear nothing but good things about the EXOS SAS series.
It has to be the SAS versions tho, and not SATA.
I might give the EXOS SAS versions a try, but those would need to go in my system with a RAID controller on a backplane.

 

[Tech Junky]

RAID controller on a backplane.

That that just adds more cost sand complexity to the mix. Maybe some more speed though. Then again you could possibly gain that using a hba as well on a pcie slot

 

[igor_kavinski]

I just lost a HGST He12.

What happened exactly? I've always been curious about how sealed drives die. Mechanical head failure? Platter surface degradation? Circuit board failure?

 

[aigomorla]

What happened exactly? I've always been curious about how sealed drives die. Mechanical head failure? Platter surface degradation? Circuit board failure?

The drive is on its way to the grave.
I think platter issue, since im getting unreadable / pending / uncorrectable.

CRITICAL
Device: /dev/da5 [SAT], 8 Currently unreadable (pending) sectors.
2018-08-23 12:54:14

notifications_active
CRITICAL
Device: /dev/da5 [SAT], 16 Offline uncorrectable sectors.
2018-08-23 12:54:14

notifications_active
CRITICAL
Device: /dev/da5 [SAT], new Self-Test Log error at hour timestamp 36816.
2022-10-09 03:51:06

notifications_active
CRITICAL
Device: /dev/da5 [SAT], new Self-Test Log error at hour timestamp 36832.
2022-10-09 21:42:31

Drive also fails all SMART tests.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000b 099 099 016 Pre-fail Always - 131072
2 Throughput_Performance 0x0005 133 133 054 Pre-fail Offline - 100
3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0007 175 175 024 Pre-fail Always - 376 (Average 375)
4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0012 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 65
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 100 100 005 Pre-fail Always - 0
7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000b 100 100 067 Pre-fail Always - 0
8 Seek_Time_Performance 0x0005 128 128 020 Pre-fail Offline - 18
9 Power_On_Hours 0x0012 095 095 000 Old_age Always - 36860
10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0013 100 100 060 Pre-fail Always - 0
12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 65
22 Helium_Level 0x0023 100 100 025 Pre-fail Always - 100
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 098 098 000 Old_age Always - 3139
193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0012 098 098 000 Old_age Always - 3139
194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0002 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 30 (Min/Max 14/46)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 0
197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0022 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 8
198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0008 100 100 000 Old_age Offline - 16
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x000a 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error
# 1 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36838 4195608
# 2 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36832 4195608
# 3 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36816 4195608
# 4 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36808 4195608
# 5 Extended offline Completed: read failure 90% 36807 4195608
# 6 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36774 4195608
# 7 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36726 4195608
# 8 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36678 4195608
# 9 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36654 4195608
#10 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36606 4195608
#11 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36558 4195608
#12 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36510 4195608
#13 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36486 4195608
#14 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36438 4195608
#15 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36390 4195608
#16 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36342 4195608
#17 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36318 4195608
#18 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36270 4195608
#19 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36222 4195608
#20 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36174 4195608
#21 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 36150 4195608

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
1 0 0 Not_testing
2 0 0 Not_testing
3 0 0 Not_testing
4 0 0 Not_testing
5 0 0 Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.


So its a dying drive.
I got a new one coming in soon, so i hope i don't hit a nail and lose another drive before i can resilver the array.

I think the heatwave we had where it was like 100F a couple days straight is probably what cooked the drive.
You can see the max temp on the drive got up to 45C, which is VERY HOT for a He drive.

But looking at the drive age for power on, its given me about 4.2 years, which i guess its soso.... but its my first HGST He i have lost so far...
*knock on wood*

 

[igor_kavinski]

I think the heatwave we had where it was like 100F a couple days straight is probably what cooked the drive.

Doesn't that mean that your other He drives are also compromised? Have you checked their SMART stats?

 

[Tech Junky]

Hmm.... ok... well, I have 5 x WD Red - Western Digital Ultrastar He10/12 (WD80EZAZ-11T ) drives that have temps between 15-45C temp histories in an AC controlled environment. They typically sit around 30C though according to the SMART info.

They all have 30K plus hours on them (4-4.5 years) of uptime. A couple of them show some SATA link errors but, IIRC that was an issue in a prior system build and/or cabling.

I've noticed some kernel versions in Linux report more "debug" level info than others but, give them a pinch of salt in validity.
""smartd[1211]: Device: /dev/sde [SAT], SMART Usage Attribute: 194 Temperature_Celsius changed from 209 to 216" This isn't useful info as it's some kind off metric conversion of some sort that doesn't directly translate to the actual temp of the drive.

Temperature Celsius

30 (Normalized: 216)

So, the logging of 30C = 216????

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   100   100   016    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0004   129   129   054    Old_age   Offline      -       112
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   192   192   024    Pre-fail  Always       -       320 (Average 364)
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       360
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000a   100   100   067    Old_age   Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0004   128   128   020    Old_age   Offline      -       18
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   095   095   000    Old_age   Always       -       36967
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   060    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       348
 22 Helium_Level            0x0023   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       100
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   096   096   000    Old_age   Always       -       4979
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   096   096   000    Old_age   Always       -       4979
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   216   216   000    Old_age   Always       -       30 (Min/Max 15/41)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

Now the other 2 drives reporting some BS about the SATA link show:

C
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   100   100   016    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0004   128   128   054    Old_age   Offline      -       116
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   181   181   024    Pre-fail  Always       -       382 (Average 345)
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       468
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000a   100   100   067    Old_age   Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0004   128   128   020    Old_age   Offline      -       18
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   095   095   000    Old_age   Always       -       40499
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   060    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       456
 22 Helium_Level            0x0023   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       100
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       -       4708
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       -       4708
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   203   203   000    Old_age   Always       -       32 (Min/Max 15/41)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       151

D
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000b   100   100   016    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  2 Throughput_Performance  0x0004   128   128   054    Old_age   Offline      -       116
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0007   173   173   024    Pre-fail  Always       -       379 (Average 380)
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       389
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   005    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000a   100   100   067    Old_age   Always       -       0
  8 Seek_Time_Performance   0x0004   128   128   020    Old_age   Offline      -       18
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0012   095   095   000    Old_age   Always       -       37156
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   060    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       377
 22 Helium_Level            0x0023   100   100   025    Pre-fail  Always       -       100
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       -       4366
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0012   097   097   000    Old_age   Always       -       4366
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   203   203   000    Old_age   Always       -       32 (Min/Max 15/40)
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0022   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0008   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x000a   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0

I don't put much into some of the stats provided in SMART though. Sure, if you're looking for something you'll find it but, at best they're good for a post mortem analysis. Now, if rebuilds were firing off more often than the weekly checks that would be a good indicator that something isn't right with one of the drives.