Question Anyne have experience with Water Panther DAS Hard drives?

jamesdsimone

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I don't see much online about them except for sites selling them and the customer reviews. 12TB for 124.99 direct from their site. Is there any difference between DAS and NAS? I'll be using it in a standard PC not a proprietary NAS.

 

Tech Junky

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They're refurbs which means a limited warranty for starters and there's a quick deaths mentioned. I think I've come across these on Amazon as well and they've been used in days centers. I would steer clear of them personally not knowing how long they will last.
 
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jamesdsimone

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I have always used refurbed drives without a problem. I have 6 refurbed Seagate drives that have been working fine for a while. I know using refurbed drives can be a crap shoot but they offer a 2 year warranty. 12TB is tempting.
 

Tech Junky

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Well, then get them and see how they workout in the long run, Obviously you have a backup in place.

MTF? Maybe MTBF... The bigger issue is power cycles as the surge from each power up kills the drive slowly.
 
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jamesdsimone

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Well, then get them and see how they workout in the long run, Obviously you have a backup in place.

MTF? Maybe MTBF... The bigger issue is power cycles as the surge from each power up kills the drive slowly.
Yes this is for redundant back up. Sorry right MTBF. I was wondering about that too, power cycles vs power on time.
 

Tech Junky

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Those numbers are for warranty purposes and don't mean much unless you're running a ton of transactional data to the drives that consumes writes. It's more of a gauge to the durability of the drives and their intended uses. I've had my WD 8TB's running 24/7 for a few years now and they don't even put a dent into the warranty numbers. My M2 drives are the same way for use stats. It's hard to ruin a drive in normal conditions. CHIA though has been able to destroy drives in a short order though.

If I were looking at used drives though the numbers matter when considering the discount vs risk of failure. It needs to be a significant discount to compensate for the potential of early replacement / risk of losing data. I much more prefer to put drives into service and not have to worry about them for years. Cycling out 1 or 2 every couple of years to make sure there's not going to be an issue. I've been considering the idea of jumping into the 18TB arena for a Raid 1 backup of my Raid 10 setup currently but, considering I have 5 drives in the array with one being a hot standby it's not an urgent need.

It all comes down to preference though when it comes to data management. Some are less risk adverse and throw money at the problem and others keep pushing legacy drives until they die completely. If you plan and do it right the first time it's usually not much of an issue. Testing new drives within the return period is a good idea rather than letting them sit on a shelf until needed. I caught 1 that was DOA and got it replaced within the return period. There's always a chance something just won't work out of the box. I've has it happen with a PSU as well. Holding inventory can be a double edged sword sometimes.
 

jamesdsimone

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Thanks for all the good info. I now have 4NAS's which I have slowly added over probably 10 years. I have an old Dlink sharecenter with 2 Hitachi 1.5TB drives which were big when I got them. I used it as my media server but have out grown them a long time ago. I now use it to store all my game downloads so it usually is idle. I have no real reason to replace the drives but they do occupy 2 drive bays. I have a 4x2TB and a 4x4TB NAS that I use for media. The 8 bay server I just put together has 8 bays with 4x2TB and 4 open bays. My "problem" is that I have a lot of smaller drives that are probably about half full. I can't really justify the cost of replacing them since they are working ok and I don't need the storage right now. So I'm trying to decide what to do with open 4 bays.
 
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Tech Junky

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Well, to simplify things I would condense the multiple enclosures into the new build and leave a 2-bay for a Raid 1 mirror for backups.

Reducing the clutter will make it easier to figure out what's vital and reduce duplicate files across the different drives.

8 bays in the new build gets you tons of options depending on how you set things up and whether it's a PC running as a NAS or if it's a captive NAS off the shelf from a provider.

I have tons of "bays" I can use in my Fractal Meshify 2 PC case. Using Linux as the OS I can add / remove drives from Raid as needed vs being bound to using what's given from a producer of NAS systems. Currently I have 5 x 8TB drives in a Raid10 which gives the minimum of 4 drives to make the R10 setup and a hot standby that takes over if one drive fails. This nets me ~15.4TB of useable space and 400MB/s+ of bandwidth to move files which comes close to SSD speeds on SATA which normally top out in the mid 500MB/s area.

so, let's see what we have here.
8 bays
8 drives + 2x1.5 (time to decom)

so, repurposing the 1.5tb enclosure as your backup enclosure means probably putting in at least 2 drives @ 8TB to cover a R10 with the existing 4TB drives. Now, on the flip side you could put a set of 4 8TB drives into the new setup and then put the 4TB drives into a Raid0 as a backup destination.

The 2TB drives are kind of pointless in either equation though due to size even if you put them into a R0 configuration that's only 8TB of space. The 4TB drives at least get you close to 16TB if you went with an 8TBx4 R10 setup which would cover the space needed for that "3rd" backup since the R10 gives you mirror + stripe.

Now, if you just want to condense things and aren't concerned about speed as much as capacity then going with the 12TB+ single or mirror option would bring everything into a single disk + backup. The only drawback would be swapping the disk if one fails vs the online backup provided by the R1 or R10 setup.

The other option is just put all of your disks into the new server and be done with juggling everything with 3 x NAS devices. Add a single 18TB to the mix as your backup destination and call it a day.

Considering your MOBO probably only has 6-8 SATA ports on it you'd need a HBA to get some more data ports if you did want to do all 8 bays if you have more than a single NVME / M2 slotted as that tends to disable a couple of SATA ports due to lanes needed.

The other thing to consider when doing this stuff if you're in s static NAS enclosure is current TB + rate of growth. Typically it's hard to maneuver a capacity upgrade on the off the shelf options and making a backup before trying to do so makes a lot of sense. With Linux / MDADM you can fudge your way through a transition using "missing" flags on the raid setup and copy data over to a single disk or whatever is available and then just add the origination disk when done w/o losing any data. Same goes for if you want to remove a disk from the array to use as a backup destination / stand alone disk if you decide you want to change the raid type to something different.
 

jamesdsimone

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This project is getting a lot more complicated than I thought. The 4x4TB server is running XigmaNAS installed embedded on a 32GB USB drive. It has 10 out of 14TB free so I'm not going to change anything there. I have it populated with 4 Seagate Constellation ES.3. I got them "refurbed" from Newegg. Speccy read them as new. It is currently my main media server. The 8 bay server is a PC running the same XigmaNAS setup. I wanted to install Mint and use that and just do a simple SAMBA share but after reading about 20 tutorials, I could never get the server to connect to any of my computers. I am upgrading my gaming rig and used the old ASUS Sabertooth/FX8350/32GB DDR 3 to build the server. I had an old case and PS. I forgot to mention. The 4x2TB are mounted fixed in the case but the open 4 bays are hot swap. The board has 8 SATA ports and the case is a mid tower that holds a max of 8 drives. I'm second guessing using the old 2 TB drives. Of course they are formatted UFS so I can't just pull them and use them in my Windows boxes. Can Linux read them ok? If so I was thinking I could pull them and copy the data that way and then repartition them and maybe use them in a USB dock. Also, can you recommend a good utility to check network drives? Every utility I have tried just scans local drives.
 

Tech Junky

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Linux can read anything. Well, almost anything, I ran into something it couldn't and that was qnx which is used on my car's MMI drive.

What do you mean by check? Mdadm does health checks on raid and performs a rebuild of something doesn't verify. As to windows seeing it you have to install samba and then add a mount point folder and permissions to it for group/users.
 

jamesdsimone

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Linux can read anything. Well, almost anything, I ran into something it couldn't and that was qnx which is used on my car's MMI drive.

What do you mean by check? Mdadm does health checks on raid and performs a rebuild of something doesn't verify. As to windows seeing it you have to install samba and then add a mount point folder and permissions to it for group/users.
I use speccy to check my hard drives. It gives all the SMART data like power on cycles and time on etc. But it only looks at local drives.
 

Tech Junky

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I use webmin for a remote interface when I'm just looking for a glance at something and it pulls all the data you could ever want. Gives you a GUI to use when you're feeling lazy and don't want to do it by CLI. Mostly I use it as a reminder to check for updates as it pops an alert on the tab in chrome.

1664252804945.png
 

jamesdsimone

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Is that for Linux? My main LInux box is in pieces right now since it is involved with my gaming rig upgrade which has gone terribly wrong.
 

Tech Junky

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I use it on my linux box since it's headless. It's just an app and then you open it in a browser to view / change / manage things.


Works though with most OS options.
 

jamesdsimone

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I downloaded he windows version and there is no exe only a setup bat that opens this web page.

I use it on my linux box since it's headless. It's just an app and then you open it in a browser to view / change / manage things.

I haven't been able to get it to work but look like it's what I'm looking for. Amazing that all the utilities no one thought that you would want to look at network drives? I've tried 4 or 5 so far.
 

Tech Junky

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jamesdsimone

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I downloaded he windows version and there is no exe only a setup bat that opens this web page.

I use it on my linux box since it's headless. It's just an app and then you open it in a browser to view / change / manage things.

I haven't been able to get it to work but look like it's what I'm looking for. Amazing that all the utilities no one thought that you would want to look at network drives? I've tried 4 or 5 so far.
Interesting but are you is talking it on a windows server? If it's the Linux box you download it to the Linux box and install and when it runs you get a web GUI.


This might work better.
The servers are xigmaNAS which is freeBSD, a Synology and a Dlink. I assume they run some flavor of Linux. I want to access the servers through Windows. Right now my Linux system is not working. The Dlink and Synology NAS's both have utilities but I can't find any way to see the SMART data. I'll see if there is updated version.
 

jamesdsimone

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I grabbed a 6TB WD refurbed Gold drive from Newegg for 59.00USD. They are 200USD new. I'm going to repopulate the server with 2TB>>6TB drives. SMART statistics 31 Power on Count and 1613.9 days on Time. I think that is not horrible? MTBF for these drives is 2.5 million hours. I got 2 4 bay Orico docks to use with the spare 2TB drives.
 

jamesdsimone

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Well I was all excited to get the drive installed. When I tried to partition it, it only gave me 2TB's. Before I return it is there anything I'm doing wrong or does the drive have that many bad sectors? I used two different partition programs.
 

jamesdsimone

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No option for gpt with the 2 partition app I'm using. NFTS ans ext4. I don't need to be resurrecting drives. Going to return and look else where.
 

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