Any runners here switch to Chi Running style?

[ControlD]

Yeh, I'm uber high arched too.
http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-319-326-7152-0,00.html

If I do the "wet" test I have even less foot showing than the print on the right of that video. I've also got incredibly narrow feet. But what isn't narrow is my hips...I'm damn near built like a woman in that regard...34"-36" waist at 6' and 170 pounds. And it's not fat...that's just my pelvis taking up space. I'm a biomechanics wreck.

That's why I asked about the weight. Us high archers simply don't have the surface area striking the ground that others do to distribute the weight. I think high arched people are very...uhh...impacted by weight. Is that extra 20 pounds muscle or a little extra flab you picked up over the years? Any chance you could trim down through diet, light running and supplementing with weights & biking to help round out caloric burn/up the metabolism?

I would say that extra 20 pounds of weight is pretty much chicken wings and beer. Part of why I started to run is to get rid of my belly fat, which is pretty much the only fat on my body. If you ever saw the episode of "King Of The Hill" where Hank gets butt implants to give himself an ass that is pretty much me. That and running is pretty much the only exercise that I actually enjoy and look forward to doing on a regular basis. I used to bike until I got creamed by a car (which is also why I quit running for a long time) so getting on two wheels again isn't much of an option.

Maybe I will start hitting the YMCA for some swimming and elliptical work and give the running a rest until my ankle starts to heal up a little bit.

 

[vi edit]

I used to bike until I got creamed by a car (which is also why I quit running for a long time) so getting on two wheels again isn't much of an option.

That's important to know. How much damage did that do? And have you really done much activity since going through your basic rehab? The physical demands of athletics are much different than the basic functions that PT/Rehab try to restore. Did your PT go over exercise and impacts after your accident?

You might have a hitch in your giddy (technical term ) that is in fact unnatural/undesireable that does need to be addressed by a specialist. I'll withdraw some of my current comments earlier about not needing to correct form now knowing that. I'm not enitrely conviced a "Chi Master Trainer" is the right person to do that. I think I'd put a little more faith in conventional western sports medicine.

 

[ControlD]

Nah, I think your earlier comments were probably correct. I got lucky in my accident and the only damage I suffered was to my knees and even that was pretty light all things considered. I was a college student with minimum insurance so the idea of any PT was pretty much a joke. I just don't ride a bike anymore because I'm pretty sure people these days are more distracted when driving then they were in the pre cell phone days and I'm too chicken to hit the roads on a bike.

I'm just impatient. I bet plenty of runners have the same problems I do, I just tend to obsess over things (ask my wife, she will tell you).

 

[SociallyChallenged]

The thing with form is that everyone's body is built different. Different heights. Different widths. Different gaits. Ect. Our bodies tend to fall into a pattern that works well for *us*. That's really my main problem with "form" training. It's not a one size fits all.

I honestly think trying to adjust your natural gait from way to another just shifts the injury to a different area.

I do agree with strength though, hence the reason I said that a base is crucial.

Well, you're right and you're wrong. Everybody is built differently, but they are built partially due to their genetic build and partly due to their environment (activity levels, posture, nutrition levels, etc). Even with all that, there is a normal range of motions that one should experience during running. Those who experience extreme ranges are those who are at the highest risk of injury. That includes both sides of the spectrum - too little ROM results in shock loading, too much ROM results in instability.

One's body falls into the pattern that is easiest for it, not necessarily the best for longevity. For some, this easy pattern is a normal running gait. For those with weak hip abductors, that pattern results in excessive valgus forces at the knee, resulting in patellofemoral joint pain, medial collateral ligament sprains (along with medial meniscus damage), adductor strains, pes anserine bursitis or tendonitis, medial patellar retinacular fibers sprain, etc. Just because that's easiest for the person to utilize doesn't mean it's what's BEST for them.

I'm a doctoral physical therapy student, exercise physiologist, and have been an avid runner for 10 years. Research shows that there IS a normal gait pattern that is optimal. Physical therapy research for runners shows that modifying gait is one of the most effective ways to reduce injury and maintain longevity within the sport. If you go from one extreme (excess pronation) to another (excess supination), of course you will reduce certain structures' injury risk and increase others'. However, if you go from an extreme to normal mid-range, you utilize the structures as they were meant to sustain force. This is supported by years of biomechanics, exercise physiology, physical therapy, and running specific research.

I should mention that this form is not likely found in the Chi running style or the Pose running styles. The more important aspects are what your foot strike is, your ankle mobility and strength, your hip strength, your motor program, etc. This is something that should be evaluated and assessed by a professional trained in years on this condition - typically a PT known for working with runners. Those who've created Chi and Pose running aren't experts (although they like to tout that they are) and don't necessarily understand the biomechanics behind running.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks, that all seems like very solid advice. I have been told that I have an extremely high arch as well as very tight calf muscles so I think your idea of concentrating on the rest of the body is solid. I never thought about seeking help from a PT but perhaps that might be a better option than trying to unlearn 30 years of running habits.

One of the worst things you can do to your body is run with tight calves. It modifies walking gait and normal gait so extensively that it, in itself, is considered a pathology called rearfoot equinus. Visiting a PT would likely be beneficial to you, if you were serious about minimizing your injury risk. A tight calf causes a ton of substitutions within the subtalar joint, midfoot, and forefoot. Having a tight calf results in reduced dorsiflexion ROM. The subtalar joint then accommodates for this by pronating more, which gets you slightly more dorsiflexion. When that occurs, the midfoot becomes unlocked, resulting in an unstable foot, especially if you push off of it in that position. It's like pushing off of a bag of bones. It increases risk of plantar fasciitis, shin splints (anterior and posterior tibialis tendonitis or strain), hallux abductovalgus (bunion), stress fractures in the foot and tibia, Achilles tendinopathy or tear, and more. Many times, correcting the mobility issue alone can improve your running form. But that'd be something for your PT to figure out.

 

[ControlD]

One of the worst things you can do to your body is run with tight calves. It modifies walking gait and normal gait so extensively that it, in itself, is considered a pathology called rearfoot equinus. Visiting a PT would likely be beneficial to you, if you were serious about minimizing your injury risk. A tight calf causes a ton of substitutions within the subtalar joint, midfoot, and forefoot. Having a tight calf results in reduced dorsiflexion ROM. The subtalar joint then accommodates for this by pronating more, which gets you slightly more dorsiflexion. When that occurs, the midfoot becomes unlocked, resulting in an unstable foot, especially if you push off of it in that position. It's like pushing off of a bag of bones. It increases risk of plantar fasciitis, shin splints (anterior and posterior tibialis tendonitis or strain), hallux abductovalgus (bunion), stress fractures in the foot and tibia, Achilles tendinopathy or tear, and more. Many times, correcting the mobility issue alone can improve your running form. But that'd be something for your PT to figure out.

Thanks for the information. I will ask around and see if there are any PT in the area that are experienced in working with runners, but I am not expecting to find much in this area. I have been working on some calf loosening exercises while I have some down time and hopefully that will help.

One thing you mentioned above does not seem to match up with what my podiatrist has told me. He said that since I am high arched my foot actually tends to not pronate enough which puts more stress on the outside of my foot. This seems to make sense to me because my major issue is peroneal tendonitis rather than achilles or inner ankle issues. He also mentioned that this lack of pronation can account for my plantar fasciitis (I must be killing the spelling on these). He actually mentioned that moving towards more minimal footwear can benefit high arched people like me more than those with flat feet. This is what got me looking into the Chi running program as it is geared towards using footwear with less cushioning and puts emphasis on the mid foot strike. I have been making an effort as I have been getting back into running of trying to make sure my feet land under me rather than in front of me already. It seems like going the next step (gait modification) might help as well.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Thanks for the information. I will ask around and see if there are any PT in the area that are experienced in working with runners, but I am not expecting to find much in this area. I have been working on some calf loosening exercises while I have some down time and hopefully that will help.

One thing you mentioned above does not seem to match up with what my podiatrist has told me. He said that since I am high arched my foot actually tends to not pronate enough which puts more stress on the outside of my foot. This seems to make sense to me because my major issue is peroneal tendonitis rather than achilles or inner ankle issues. He also mentioned that this lack of pronation can account for my plantar fasciitis (I must be killing the spelling on these). He actually mentioned that moving towards more minimal footwear can benefit high arched people like me more than those with flat feet. This is what got me looking into the Chi running program as it is geared towards using footwear with less cushioning and puts emphasis on the mid foot strike. I have been making an effort as I have been getting back into running of trying to make sure my feet land under me rather than in front of me already. It seems like going the next step (gait modification) might help as well.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the portion where you mentioned you were high arched. That's called pes cavus and he's right. With a high arch and reduced calf mobility, it can definitely put you at greater risk of plantar fasciitis (if you don't get motion at your ankle or midfoot, you get it at your first ray/big toe, which tensions the plantar fascia excessively). I don't know if there's research that supports minimal footwear for high arched individuals. To be perfectly honest, based off of the research I've read, that will actually increase risk of stress fractures. You'll have to change to a forefoot or midfoot strike and considering your midfoot doesn't move well (due to the high arch), you won't absorb the shock. Because of that, your bones will bear more stress (called impulse) and your joints will absorb a lot of the force rather than your musculature. Honestly, research shows that footwear doesn't matter as much as foot strike. You don't have to wear minimalist footwear to forefoot or midfoot strike. Try finding a regular running shoe with a lower heel. It's fairly easy to run in shoes like that. Minimalist shoes (especially highly minimalist like the Vibrams) can increase your risk of other issues like metatarsalgia, fracture, and other musculoskeletal injuries. I mean, do what you think is the best idea. As far as you know, I'm just some guy on the internet. I'm just worried that the minimalist footwear won't be the fix you're looking for. Like I said before, your mobility issues definitely play a role in your running gait and injury incidence.