i do know my history, thank you.
i dont believe i was "spouting off" nor do i think it wise to call me names (ignorant)
what would help people respect you and your opinion more would be a less antagonizing spirit behind your posts. perhaps you should take your advice and think a moment before posting emotional outpourings or violent lashings out at people who are attempting to engage you on this subject.
first things first:
relax.
now:
yes, religion might indirectly cause many more deaths but religion also keeps many more people alive and functioning in their day to day life. unfortunatly, it is very hard to quantify something like people saved.
im not a religious person. i would, however, consider myself spiritual. merely contemplating the prospects of creation and purpose help to bring about a better understanding of oneself, i believe. so...although it might not be something we can easily say "religion fixed these things" as we can "religion killed these people" i am confident that the good outwieghs the bad.
regardless of which, it is not a choice to remove religion. it is a phenomena that exists with human conciousness. as such, we must accept it.
How does the good outweigh the bad? Because people are "saved?" LOL! Honestly, I'm not going to get into fallacious debate with a believer. You're not logical, so I'm not going to waste my time. You are confident that the good outweighs the bad, but I ask you, what good is there? The bad is millions if not billions dead from wars and the resulting calamity, famine, and destruction. But hey, we made those fvcking savage Indians Catholic, right? So look at the Indians now. They are wildly more successful than they were. They had the whole continent, and now they have a couple of casinos, and some plots of land that we call "Reservations." What are we reserving? Their guaranteed life of poverty, alcoholism, sickness, and futility? Sounds like a lot of fvcking good!
1. im not a believer.
2. i didnt mean "saved" in the religious sense. i meant it in the immediate, literal sense.
3. i stated that it is impossible to quantify the positive effects that the inherit desire that humanity has to believe in something (such as god) creates.
4. im being logical.
5. you are responding in an emotional and scattered way. if you wish to really discuss this like adults i ask you to carefully read what i have written and to carefully respond.
Quit being such an irrational ass. Native Americans were destined to be conquered. They were so far behind western culture they had no chance. Their position right now has NOTHING to do with catholic missionaries trying to convert them. Pick a decent example and quit getting so emotional in your posts.
yllus
Elite Member & Lifer
- Aug 20, 2000
- 20,577
- 432
- 126
Having a Muslim upbringing myself I can't say I really approve of picking up the religion, but it's better than the alternative. In most metropolitan areas with sizable Muslim populations, there are stores that specialize in Islamic apparel, books and the prayer mat. Marienville doesn't sound very large so I'd say you should probably call up that mosque and ask them where you can get a, shall we say, Muslim starter kit.
A good introductory book to read to get acclimated to Islamic teachings is Islam: Beliefs and Teachings by Ghulam Sarwar.
- Nov 10, 2001
- 1,275
- 0
- 76
Thanks Yullus, I'll pass that along. We are probably 90 miles from the nearest Mosque, (probably in Pittsburgh) there is any local. I am checking at the local university and see if they can help.
As for most of the rest of you, you need to find a different hobby if all you can do is bitch and moan about religion.
As for most of the rest of you, you need to find a different hobby if all you can do is bitch and moan about religion.
Originally posted by: whitecloak
Maybe both of you - dabuddha and mill, need to take up religion?
Ah, yes!!
"Father Millenium" has a nice ring to it.
as much as you guys(including me in some cases) like to blame others for trolling/thread crapping
this is a classic example of that
this is a classic example of that
Seriously... do you understand what I mean?
Destined is synonymous with 'bound'. Perhaps you'd prefer a different word.
The natives of both Americas were bound to be conquered by western civilizations because they were severely lacking in war technology. They stood no chance. Just like the africans had no chance against westerners looking to enslave them. These conquests had nothing to do with religion. They were motivated purely by greed and funded by expansionist nations.
I'd rather you argue my point than twist a word around and ignore the following EXPLANATION.
Umm... so because a civilization is weak, the stronger should wipe them out? Just because they can? Well Christ on a pogo-stick, I think we should take out Zimbabwe.
that's gotta be the best / worst idea i ever hear. destined for slavery and destined for being conquered.
do you actually use this theory with people you have conversations with? professionals?
do you actually use this theory with people you have conversations with? professionals?
I honestly hope not. While it has slight promise(in that weaker civs typically do get conquered) that doesn't mean it is ok, nor was it their destiny. It really sounds like he's saying they deserved it. Appalling.
destiny is a cop out for all events people would rather not deal with politically. it's a terrible cop out and can be applied to every event.
911 - THE US was DESTINED to be attacked
Spain - they were DESTINED to be attacked
exploding shuttles for space - DESTINED not to go smooth and the astronauts were DESTINED to die
please, that's the weakest f'n argument ever.
i really do not hope something ill happens to someone close and someone blurts out, "it was their destiny"
911 - THE US was DESTINED to be attacked
Spain - they were DESTINED to be attacked
exploding shuttles for space - DESTINED not to go smooth and the astronauts were DESTINED to die
please, that's the weakest f'n argument ever.
i really do not hope something ill happens to someone close and someone blurts out, "it was their destiny"
What is so crazy about what I'm saying?
Let me break it down so you don't get confused anymore.
A group of people is relatively weak compared to the civilized world. SEVERAL expansionist nations begin trying to conquer them. They lose over time because they never had a chance. I never implied ANY ethical point to my example. I never said it was right or wrong, only that it was assured to happen.
wow. I'm crazy.
I think you guys are getting caught up on the word destiny.
I didn't use it to imply that they deserved their fate, nor that it was preordained somehow.
I meant it as a synonym for bound or certain. Perhaps those would have been better words.
You keep dodging my point. You've completely changed the argument.
My point was that your example sucks, and that catholic missionaries had little to do with the current state of Native Americans.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 23K
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
-
-
Facebook
Twitter