Any Muslims here?

[isasir]

LOL, I guess I shouldn't expect any less than this here on ATOT, especially for such a simple straightforward question (which I can't assist in answering, unfortunately).

Mill, what do you suggest as a good substitute "addiction" then for a former drug user? You seem to have all the answers. Or should they just continue using drugs, since you think it's the lesser of the two evils?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: kalster
its fascinating though that this compairson of how harmful religion is vs how harmful drugs are would only come up in a thread about islam

wow just wow


stop being so narrow minded people, dont judge a religion based on a bunch of bad examples


and no i am not a muslim

Agreed. Unfortunately, Mill tends to be quite close-minded about these sort of things. That would be ok if he actually had a clue about what he was talking about. Unfortunately he doesn't

Goddamn you're a hoser. Quit talking sh!t and actually debate, or STFU!

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: kalster
its fascinating though that this compairson of how harmful religion is vs how harmful drugs are would only come up in a thread about islam

wow just wow


stop being so narrow minded people, dont judge a religion based on a bunch of bad examples


and no i am not a muslim

Agreed. Unfortunately, Mill tends to be quite close-minded about these sort of things. That would be ok if he actually had a clue about what he was talking about. Unfortunately he doesn't

Goddamn you're a hoser. Quit talking sh!t and actually debate, or STFU!

BWHAHAHAHA Thanks for the laugh Milly boy

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: isasir


Mill, what do you suggest as a good substitute "addiction" then for a former drug user?

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: isasir


Mill, what do you suggest as a good substitute "addiction" then for a former drug user?

methadone? sp?

 

[Vortex22]

Just get him smoking weed. Then he'll sit around and do nothing.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: isasir


Mill, what do you suggest as a good substitute "addiction" then for a former drug user?

There's not a good substitute addiction. The whole idea of telling people to find God, or drink Coffee, or smoke cigs(as some groups suggest) are totally stupid as well. There isn't a good substitute addiction, and that is the whole point. There is no cure for addiction, but the only way to overcome it, and to live a happy and prosperous life is by getting of the mindset that led you there to begin with. You know what's most successful for addicts? It isn't fear. Lots of programs attempt to scare, manipulate, or force people to be a certain way. That "cures" them, but in reality it makes it worse. The BEST solution out there is for addicts to understand they will aways be addicts, educate themselves, and to attempt to create a life that doesn't revolve around drugs. It is very hard to do that. Very hard indeed, and that's why the idea of using a higher power, or another addiction is such a lightbulb in the minds of most addicts. Fact is, all it does it transfer or postpone a relapse. What they need are friends and family to support them(instead of berate them or scare them) and they need people to treat them human. That's what works.

Religion, cigs, coffee, voodoo, sex, whatever, won't work. That's the bottom line of it all. Ask me how I know? I lived with addicts for a good while. I'm an addict myself, but I haven't touched drugs in a long while. I've seen tons of people get sober, and I've seen tons of people relapse. You know what the relapsers had in common? They transfered an addiction, or they never changed their lifestyle. You know what the people with 10 years sober had in common? They were educated, knew their weaknesses, and told people when they felt they were slipping. That's how you remain sober. You have to have support. Don't expect religion to ever understand an addict, because they best they can do is "pray" for you, or tell you to do activity X to get closer to God Y. It's all BS.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: kalster
its fascinating though that this compairson of how harmful religion is vs how harmful drugs are would only come up in a thread about islam

wow just wow


stop being so narrow minded people, dont judge a religion based on a bunch of bad examples


and no i am not a muslim

Agreed. Unfortunately, Mill tends to be quite close-minded about these sort of things. That would be ok if he actually had a clue about what he was talking about. Unfortunately he doesn't

Goddamn you're a hoser. Quit talking sh!t and actually debate, or STFU!

BWHAHAHAHA Thanks for the laugh Milly boy

Have fun dumbsh!t.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: isasir


Mill, what do you suggest as a good substitute "addiction" then for a former drug user?

There's not a good substitute addiction. The whole idea of telling people to find God, or drink Coffee, or smoke cigs(as some groups suggest) are totally stupid as well. There isn't a good substitute addiction, and that is the whole point. There is no cure for addiction, but the only way to overcome it, and to live a happy and prosperous life is by getting of the mindset that led you there to begin with. You know what's most successful for addicts? It isn't fear. Lots of programs attempt to scare, manipulate, or force people to be a certain way. That "cures" them, but in reality it makes it worse. The BEST solution out there is for addicts to understand they will aways be addicts, educate themselves, and to attempt to create a life that doesn't revolve around drugs. It is very hard to do that. Very hard indeed, and that's why the idea of using a higher power, or another addiction is such a lightbulb in the minds of most addicts. Fact is, all it does it transfer or postpone a relapse. What they need are friends and family to support them(instead of berate them or scare them) and they need people to treat them human. That's what works.

Religion, cigs, coffee, voodoo, sex, whatever, won't work. That's the bottom line of it all. Ask me how I know? I lived with addicts for a good while. I'm an addict myself, but I haven't touched drugs in a long while. I've seen tons of people get sober, and I've seen tons of people relapse. You know what the relapsers had in common? They transfered an addiction, or they never changed their lifestyle. You know what the people with 10 years sober had in common? They were educated, knew their weaknesses, and told people when they felt they were slipping. That's how you remain sober. You have to have support. Don't expect religion to ever understand an addict, because they best they can do is "pray" for you, or tell you to do activity X to get closer to God Y. It's all BS.

Ding Ding Ding! Winner!

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: kalster
its fascinating though that this compairson of how harmful religion is vs how harmful drugs are would only come up in a thread about islam

wow just wow


stop being so narrow minded people, dont judge a religion based on a bunch of bad examples


and no i am not a muslim

That is because Islam is the current religion of choice for the weak minded. He is in a vulnerable position and more likely to take his religous views to the extremist side.

 

[Sid59]

i've seen flame threads about drugs.
i've seen flame threads about religion.

first time i've read a flame thread about both. so much crap and misinformation goes on in flame threads, it's intolerable.

 

[azazyel]

I know a lot of people beleive that Religion was the cause of all those wars and killing but I really don't think that is fair. The base cause of most of these occurrences was greed and religion was used as an excuse to perpetrate them. While it is sad that many, many people still took up arms to fight these mock holy wars or commit these atrocities it still comes down to human nature/desire not religion. The Nazis, Russians and the Japanese all fought with a religious furor but didn't need a mandate from god to slaughter millions. Instead they just needed a reason and a hope of something greater to gain by doing so. People tend to forget that as humans our greatest qualities are closely linked to our greatest weaknesses. From our ability to come together gives us an excuse to exclude.

In regards to this man taking up Islam, I think it is a great thing. Mill posted that one needs to change their social settings and change their mind set and I don't know how much greater a mind set change you could ask for than Islam. This man is going to be starting in own Jihad (which means holy struggle not holy war) against drug abuse.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: azazyel
I know a lot of people beleive that Religion was the cause of all those wars and killing but I really don't think that is fair. The base cause of most of these occurrences was greed and religion was used as an excuse to perpetrate them. While it is sad that many, many people still took up arms to fight these mock holy wars or commit these atrocities it still comes down to human nature/desire not religion. The Nazis, Russians and the Japanese all fought with a religious furor but didn't need a mandate from god to slaughter millions. Instead they just needed a reason and a hope of something greater to gain by doing so. People tend to forget that as humans our greatest qualities are closely linked to our greatest weaknesses. From our ability to come together gives us an excuse to exclude.

In regards to this man taking up Islam, I think it is a great thing. Mill posted that one needs to change their social settings and change their mind set and I don't know how much greater a mind set change you could ask for than Islam. This man is going to be starting in own Jihad (which means holy struggle not holy war) against drug abuse.

I pondered that thought as well, but it seems to me that pretty much all religion is inadequate for drug addicts. I'm not saying religion is a bad thing at all, but anyone who jumps into religion because of drugs is asking for it, IMO. To me it is just tranferring your problems to "a higher power" and not actually dealing with them. I went to church for 18 years, and I saw a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts try to solve their problems with God. That's fine if they want the support of the church, and do want to change their lives, but a lot of people rely on the religion, and don't actually change themselves. Maybe it works for this guy. It'd be nice, but I can't ignore what I've seen.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: tnitsuj
The weak minded always need something...religion..drugs

Plenty of strong minded people believe in relgion or did/do drugs.

Ya he's sitting in the white house. but we should call it more hard headed than strong minded.

 

[OutHouse]

nice hijack Mill. Since you unable to help out the OP maybe you should start another tread about your views.

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: azazyel
I know a lot of people beleive that Religion was the cause of all those wars and killing but I really don't think that is fair. The base cause of most of these occurrences was greed and religion was used as an excuse to perpetrate them. While it is sad that many, many people still took up arms to fight these mock holy wars or commit these atrocities it still comes down to human nature/desire not religion. The Nazis, Russians and the Japanese all fought with a religious furor but didn't need a mandate from god to slaughter millions. Instead they just needed a reason and a hope of something greater to gain by doing so. People tend to forget that as humans our greatest qualities are closely linked to our greatest weaknesses. From our ability to come together gives us an excuse to exclude.

In regards to this man taking up Islam, I think it is a great thing. Mill posted that one needs to change their social settings and change their mind set and I don't know how much greater a mind set change you could ask for than Islam. This man is going to be starting in own Jihad (which means holy struggle not holy war) against drug abuse.

I pondered that thought as well, but it seems to me that pretty much all religion is inadequate for drug addicts. I'm not saying religion is a bad thing at all, but anyone who jumps into religion because of drugs is asking for it, IMO. To me it is just tranferring your problems to "a higher power" and not actually dealing with them. I went to church for 18 years, and I saw a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts try to solve their problems with God. That's fine if they want the support of the church, and do want to change their lives, but a lot of people rely on the religion, and don't actually change themselves. Maybe it works for this guy. It'd be nice, but I can't ignore what I've seen.

I wish I couldn't agree with you but I do. A lot of people use religion as a crutch but if it helps them to walk strait for a little while isn't it worth it? While it may lead to a harder fall when or if they relapse but could the remembrance of being clean help later? Also, I can see Christianity being an easy path for some addicts but Islam? As far as structure and support goes I would think Islam second only to Mormonism.

 

[isasir]

Originally posted by: Mill
I pondered that thought as well, but it seems to me that pretty much all religion is inadequate for drug addicts. I'm not saying religion is a bad thing at all, but anyone who jumps into religion because of drugs is asking for it, IMO. To me it is just tranferring your problems to "a higher power" and not actually dealing with them. I went to church for 18 years, and I saw a lot of alcoholics and drug addicts try to solve their problems with God. That's fine if they want the support of the church, and do want to change their lives, but a lot of people rely on the religion, and don't actually change themselves. Maybe it works for this guy. It'd be nice, but I can't ignore what I've seen.

Unfortunately though, the human mind and spirit of most people isn't strong enough to realize that educating oneself about addictions is the way to go. We can take a murderer, put him in jail for 25 years, and he'll come out and murder again. Public education is a joke as well as people can't even motivate themselves to finish high school. Hell, I'm a few pounds overweight and I have trouble motivating myself to work out, despite knowing all the health benefits of doing so.

My point is, while I can't argue with you about how transferring to a diff't addiction isn't the best way to go, it still is a good alternative for the weak-minded, since the likelihood that this person will use religion to harm society is much smaller than the harm using drugs would cause.

5 years drug-free is still better than being a drug addict those years.

 

[Kenazo]

lol. this thread became retarded. Anyway, best of luck to the OP.

 

[todpod]

Thanks to dabuddha, isasir and anyone else who tried to help. (even mill kept the thread alive, no matter how wacked out he maybe, j/k). If he can learn to live by the moral principles then maybe he won't releapse. I hoping this may bring some stability to the kids life. He start using when he was 8, he is 15 now. His family life has been a mess and continues in turmoil, with his dad heading for jail soon. If he can turn to prayer in a time of stress then I am all for it.

Will it work, probably less then a 30% chance, but I feel you need to give him every oppurtunity to to make the most of himself, I can promise you he won't do that as a drug user, He may as a Muslim.

 

[upsciLLion]

Maybe we should ask the people of Central and South America what they think about drug wars...

 

[Yax]

Its easier to commit suicide if you know you're going to heaven as long as you blow up others when you blow yourself up.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: Mill
That's the spirit! Hook him on religion instead of drugs, because that's always healthy. Guess he found his "higher power" already eh?

i agree that the ease in which addicts take to religion is disturbing. however, your tone is offensive and ignorant. being "hooked" on religion is considerably safer than drugs.
i find it interesting you place blame on the poster for the young mans interest.

anyway, im sorry i cant help with resources.

How many millions have died in the name of religion? How many millions have died due to drugs? Yeah, that's what I thought. Sounds as if you are the ignorant one, because I can't remember the last time 10 million people died because they were fighting for one strain of marijuana over another. You could possibly take a look at history before spouting off next time.

Oh shut up already. Ask yourself this. How much good has come from religion. Now how much good has come from drugs? Try opening up your mind for once

todpod: I'll ask some of my friends if they have any online resources. I'm pretty sure they do.

:roll: Stunning rebuttal yet again from dabuddha. I don't even know why I bother to read your posts.

Ahhh insults from a feeble mind. Can't expect much else from Mill. If you can come up with something constructive, perhaps you can share or just butt out.

What I said was constructive, dickwad. Just because it doesn't fall inline with your opinion it doesn't mean it isn't constructive. You've obviously got ZERO experience dealing with drug addicts, so I in fact suggest you shut the fvck up. Ok?

Religious War
Religious Wars 2

And that's just a microcosm of it all. Don't even start with other wars related to the Reformation, the Crusades, Muslim terrorists, etc. Just about every major war in history was religious in nature or incorporated religion. So I ask you, what has religion done that was good for mankind? Made them believe in false hope? Told addicts they had a way out? The last thing addicts need is religion. So why don't you post something worth a damn, then? What experience do you have with addicts? Any? I fvcking thought not.

Hahaha, you think the real reason for the Crusades was religion? That's cute. I bet you think the Civil War was really about slavery too.

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: isasir


Mill, what do you suggest as a good substitute "addiction" then for a former drug user?

There's not a good substitute addiction. The whole idea of telling people to find God, or drink Coffee, or smoke cigs(as some groups suggest) are totally stupid as well. There isn't a good substitute addiction, and that is the whole point. There is no cure for addiction, but the only way to overcome it, and to live a happy and prosperous life is by getting of the mindset that led you there to begin with. You know what's most successful for addicts? It isn't fear. Lots of programs attempt to scare, manipulate, or force people to be a certain way. That "cures" them, but in reality it makes it worse. The BEST solution out there is for addicts to understand they will aways be addicts, educate themselves, and to attempt to create a life that doesn't revolve around drugs. It is very hard to do that. Very hard indeed, and that's why the idea of using a higher power, or another addiction is such a lightbulb in the minds of most addicts. Fact is, all it does it transfer or postpone a relapse. What they need are friends and family to support them(instead of berate them or scare them) and they need people to treat them human. That's what works.

Religion, cigs, coffee, voodoo, sex, whatever, won't work. That's the bottom line of it all. Ask me how I know? I lived with addicts for a good while. I'm an addict myself, but I haven't touched drugs in a long while. I've seen tons of people get sober, and I've seen tons of people relapse. You know what the relapsers had in common? They transfered an addiction, or they never changed their lifestyle. You know what the people with 10 years sober had in common? They were educated, knew their weaknesses, and told people when they felt they were slipping. That's how you remain sober. You have to have support. Don't expect religion to ever understand an addict, because they best they can do is "pray" for you, or tell you to do activity X to get closer to God Y. It's all BS.

I cant talk about your experience


but embracing religion if you have had a histroy of addictions doesn't mean you HAVE to become hostile/aggresive about it (islam, christianity, hindusim, watever)

religion can bring faith/hope which can be very important/helpful to someone brought up in a disturbing environment and definetely worth a shot

you are right religion is not the answer to addictions or any problem for that matter, but having faith. hope, positive thoughts can only help

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: dabuddha

Originally posted by: Mill

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: Mill
That's the spirit! Hook him on religion instead of drugs, because that's always healthy. Guess he found his "higher power" already eh?

i agree that the ease in which addicts take to religion is disturbing. however, your tone is offensive and ignorant. being "hooked" on religion is considerably safer than drugs.
i find it interesting you place blame on the poster for the young mans interest.

anyway, im sorry i cant help with resources.

How many millions have died in the name of religion? How many millions have died due to drugs? Yeah, that's what I thought. Sounds as if you are the ignorant one, because I can't remember the last time 10 million people died because they were fighting for one strain of marijuana over another. You could possibly take a look at history before spouting off next time.

Oh shut up already. Ask yourself this. How much good has come from religion. Now how much good has come from drugs? Try opening up your mind for once

todpod: I'll ask some of my friends if they have any online resources. I'm pretty sure they do.

:roll: Stunning rebuttal yet again from dabuddha. I don't even know why I bother to read your posts.

Ahhh insults from a feeble mind. Can't expect much else from Mill. If you can come up with something constructive, perhaps you can share or just butt out.

What I said was constructive, dickwad. Just because it doesn't fall inline with your opinion it doesn't mean it isn't constructive. You've obviously got ZERO experience dealing with drug addicts, so I in fact suggest you shut the fvck up. Ok?

Religious War
Religious Wars 2

And that's just a microcosm of it all. Don't even start with other wars related to the Reformation, the Crusades, Muslim terrorists, etc. Just about every major war in history was religious in nature or incorporated religion. So I ask you, what has religion done that was good for mankind? Made them believe in false hope? Told addicts they had a way out? The last thing addicts need is religion. So why don't you post something worth a damn, then? What experience do you have with addicts? Any? I fvcking thought not.

Hahaha, you think the real reason for the Crusades was religion? That's cute. I bet you think the Civil War was really about slavery too.

The Crusades were political in nature, but backed under the guise of religion. What's your point? They wouldn't have been able to raise the armies they did if the Pope had not called for the Crusades, or if they didn't tell the conscripts they were going to take Jerusalem back. Possibly you should learn history instead? Otherwise, please tell me why you think the Crusades happened? I'll go dig my Western Civ book up just to fact check anything you say. Capiche?

 

[Jumpem]

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