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Any Machinists here?

BlackTigers

BlackTigers

Diamond Member
I just got a really, really good job as a CNC operator (future programmer if I don't fuck this up), and seeing how this is my first CNC experience.... I'd like to here from any ATOT machinists/operators, if you exist, haha.
 
I run computer support on a couple CNC machines at work. They can be finicky beasts! I've been interested in them for a year or two now and always talk to the operators and programmers every chance I get. Pretty cool to watch. Curious, do you have a machinists background?
 
Kaido said:
I run computer support on a couple CNC machines at work. They can be finicky beasts! I've been interested in them for a year or two now and always talk to the operators and programmers every chance I get. Pretty cool to watch. Curious, do you have a machinists background?
Click to expand...

I wish I did.

My father has been a machinist for years, and he got me a job in his shop, and the president thought CNC would be a great place to start. In my first couple days, I managed to zero a block on the table by aligning it, tram all the holes and get the block to within 0.0001" of centered, load 21 tools in the tool changer, load the programs in, move them to memory and DNC as needed. That sounds like a lot, but it's absolutely nothing compared to what I should be getting at.

I'm trying to find online materials to give me a head start in this. Everything I've done has come so naturally to me that I feel like I can take full advantage of this if I can get to the more indepth operations.

I do however have experience with CAD/CAM software (I got CADkey as a birthday present when I was 12, lol), and understand how to read calipers/mics/dials to +/- 1/10thou. Thank you dad....lol.
 
So basically you let the computer identify its start on the object by placing it in either a predetermined spot or let the cnc camera recognize the object and loaded a bunch of tools?

I dont technically do much machining at my work, but I like to get my hands dirty with the water jet or plasma cam. They wont let me play with the laser welder 🙁
 
Soccerman06 said:
So basically you let the computer identify its start on the object by placing it in either a predetermined spot or let the cnc camera recognize the object and loaded a bunch of tools?

I dont technically do much machining at my work, but I like to get my hands dirty with the water jet or plasma cam. They wont let me play with the laser welder 🙁
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Nope...I wish.

I take the spindle, with a dial indicator.

I indicate the back of the block, if finished, to ensure that it's straight across the X axis of the machine.

I then drag the dial across the top, checking for correctness in Z, and again this only work if the surface is finished and roughed.

I then take a leader hole, usually four of them. I place the spindle over the hole, and get it so that it remains constant 0 on X and Y through out the hole as i spin the dial around the hole. I think this is called tramming? It basically involves me making about 25 adjustments of 0.001" or less to get it straight. Repeat for all four holes.

Divide X distance between hole by two, and same with Y. Move the spindle there, set that as my origin. It's...a pain in the ass to get an entire, huge ass mold, centered on a table within 0.0001" with nothing but buttons, a knob, and dial indicator.

You guys are lucky if you have a camera, haha.
 
BlackTigers said:
I wish I did.

My father has been a machinist for years, and he got me a job in his shop, and the president thought CNC would be a great place to start. In my first couple days, I managed to zero a block on the table by aligning it, tram all the holes and get the block to within 0.0001" of centered, load 21 tools in the tool changer, load the programs in, move them to memory and DNC as needed. That sounds like a lot, but it's absolutely nothing compared to what I should be getting at.

I'm trying to find online materials to give me a head start in this. Everything I've done has come so naturally to me that I feel like I can take full advantage of this if I can get to the more indepth operations.

I do however have experience with CAD/CAM software (I got CADkey as a birthday present when I was 12, lol), and understand how to read calipers/mics/dials to +/- 1/10thou. Thank you dad....lol.
Click to expand...

Hah cool. What kind of machines will you be working with at work?

As far as resources go - here's some goodies:

CNC Programming Handbook by Peter Smid:
http://www.amazon.com/Programming-Ha...dp/0831133473/

Really technical, but covers a TON of info. I have an old old old copy. They're on like the third edition now.

The CNC Cookbook by E. Hess:
http://www.amazon.com/CNC-Cookbook-I...dp/0982110308/

Waaaaay easier book on understanding CNC's. I've been interested in building my own CNC for awhile and this was a really good starter book. Speaking of which...

Build your own CNC machine:
http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Mac...dp/1430224894/

Really excellent book that gets into hands-on stuff. The author maintains a good updated website plus a forum. He also sells DIY CNC kits for amazing prices - a 4 x 8' 3-axis rollerchain router kit is $2900 with electronics, just add a plunge router and a table: (sounds expensive, but if you know the prices of production CNC machines...yeash!)

http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

Also if you want to dip your feet into a small DIY CNC, check out the $200 Egg-bot:

http://egg-bot.com/

My weak link is the machining part of the background - I never so much as had a shop class, so getting the background in tooling and stuff is kind of overwhelming. It's really neat what you can do with the skill though, so good luck!
 
Kaido said:
Hah cool. What kind of machines will you be working with at work?

As far as resources go - here's some goodies:
!
Click to expand...

Thanks! I think I saw that first book in the library, I might have to give that a shot.

There's two three Fadals, a Johnford, an Okuma, and a Monarch....whatever that means. The two Fadals are what I'm learning on, and the first four machines all have fanuc controls so they're very, very similar from what I understand.
 
BlackTigers said:
Nope...I wish.

I take the spindle, with a dial indicator.
Click to expand...

I haven't used one with a camera before, but I have worked one that had some kind of ruby optical alignment system. Kind of interesting. The operators seem to like the manual methods a lot more, however.

I still have a lot to learn, but for me it's more of a hobby, although I've been considering a night job as a CNC guy for fun. I've worked with a CO2 Laser CNC, which I really liked (really simple to do parts on) and more recently a 3-axis wood router, which is kind of a pain (laser didn't require a vacuum table). I do support on a large 5-axis, which is really cool to watch. Outsourced some parts to a waterjet vendor and just recently checked out some micro CNC stuff (they CNC'd beveled designs into stuff the size of the tip of a pen!!).

One thing I really wish is that there was a central hub that explained all of the technologies and vendors available. The CNC Zone forums are a pretty good place to hang out, but a lot of the guys there are pretty deep into projects and machining already...I'd really like some high-level overviews of what's out there, you know? Here's a link to that forum, btw:

http://www.cnczone.com/
 
BlackTigers said:
Thanks! I think I saw that first book in the library, I might have to give that a shot.

There's two three Fadals, a Johnford, an Okuma, and a Monarch....whatever that means. The two Fadals are what I'm learning on, and the first four machines all have fanuc controls so they're very, very similar from what I understand.
Click to expand...

Yeah Fanuc controls pretty much own the market, I think I heard something like 80% marketshare or something. Very solid equipment. The upside is reliability, the downside is going into the future...most CNC vendors I've seen are moving to touchscreens on their new models (because the competition is doing so) and they're keeping the interfaces really, really stupid - like exactly the same as the physical machines. It's annoying because you could do so much for efficiency and workflow by making things nicer (think iPhone vs. Windows Mobile 6), but they keep the layout really ugly and dumb. Sigh.

As far as PC maintenance goes, I'd highly advise a few things if you use computers to run your machines: (1) have a non-local backup system (like a network backup system like Acronis or something), (2) have a hot-swap drive ready to pop in (in case the HDD dies and you need uptime ASAP - actually have a hard drive in a drawer or something, ready to go), and (3) document the software procedures as much as possible (use Snagit or Greenshot or whatever to make screenshots with diagrams and arrows and whatnot to make operations that you don't do very often really clear).

I kinda wish we could have Ironman technology where you just design out what you want and then have the machines do the rest of the work 😀 Of course...there's always 3D printers... I've worked with an FDM machine in the past - VERY cool stuff:

http://www.dimensionprinting.com/

If you ever get interested in that and want to try a DIY project, MakerBot has the "Thing-O-Matic" DIY 3D printer for $1300: (has about a 3 x 4" print area)

http://store.makerbot.com/makerbot-thing-o-matic.html

They have lots of neat mods, too - 3D scanner, assembly line box for doing multiple parts, etc. They also have a very tiny desktop CNC machine for $700 (I think it's an older version of the Thing-o-Matic), although they're on their last batch:

http://store.makerbot.com/cupcake-cnc-ultimate.html
 
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My last job in the manufacturing sector was CNC mill operator. The work was production: medical parts for heart pumps etc. My job was to load programs, load and unload fixtures with parts, deburr, make adjustments (mainly tool offsets) at the machine to keep parts in tolerance. Also had to inspect a sample from every x batch on optical comparator and enter data in an SPC system. The parts were very tiny and had to be viewed with magnifier.

I have a certificate in CAD/CAM (Mastercam) but didn't really get to use it there. They had engineers who did the programming.

I liked that job because there was so much to learn. I was used to custom work but this was production, whole different mindset. I'd done enough short runs to know how to approach it. I had been familiar with CNC technology since they used paper tape for programs (got my start in Vo-Tech school).

But I went through a tool & diemaker apprenticeship and my company did not believe in cross training. We had two guys who did it all. I didn't get much CNC exposure until later in my career when they started finally buying Proto-Trac 2-axis CNC mills for the general shop: they're a little easier and user-friendly to program at the machine.

With my background I picked it up pretty quick. But it seemed most of the guys there didn't come from a machinist position. I'd say it's a big help but not necessary. It just takes longer. The key as in any trade is finding that place that gets a variety of work with lots of smart people to learn from. Any exposure to traditional machining would be very beneficial.

I ran a HAAS mill, and they had some good study materials at their website.

The ideal job for me would have been a tool and diemaker with access to a CNC mill to make what I needed for my job. I like to be given a stack of blueprints and go build it. CNC is ok but not my dream job. Anyway I have a bad back and after two surgeries have left the trade several years ago.

The manufacturing industry in the US has sadly been in decline since the early nineties. The thing to consider career-wise is that there are not as many shops anymore. And the pay dropped. But there are awesome positions out there, just not like it used to be.
 
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Die Maker for 30 years here. CNC was just getting off the ground when I started. My exposure to it was limited. It was knowledge we needed for the trade, but not an integral part of the trade if that makes any sense. At the end of my "career" CNC had pretty much taken over most of the skill and knowledge needed for the trade. As long as everything went "right" which in the beginning was rare and in the end, the norm.

I can tell you've got the drive to learn. I can also tell you've got a head on your shoulders. Couple those with a work ethic and you should do well. Learn all you can on your own as it appears you're committed to along with help from within the organization which I assume must be available. What can set one apart from the others is the instinct, based on knowledge, to know when something is not going to go as planned. That could be speeds and feeds, setup, tooling choices and conditions in general to name a few. When you're not just doing the job, but saving the company money too, everyone benefits.

Learn all that you can in as many aspects as you can. The place to be is an employee that has too much value to be let go when the market changes or downturns occur. Attitude is an enormous part of that and one that people often overlook. All things being equal, the PITA employee will be let go over one that goes with the flow.
 
I've done a little bit of CAM/CNC on the lathe for my undergrad senior thesis work. Otherwise, I've done non-CAM CNC work (i.e., simple) for about 3 years, mostly in college, right now for hobby projects.

I'm definitely no professional machinist, but hobby machinist sure. I definitely think it would be an enjoyable profession.

Whenever I settle down somewhere I'd definitely like to setup up a hobby mill/lathe with some DIY CNC.
 
CNC can mean a lot of things. There has been a movement in the industry to move more of the modeling and tool pathing into the responsibilities of engineers. Doing this kind of work turns the machinist into a button pushing drone. IMHO this is a big mistake. Allowing machinists to do this stuff incorporates the flexability into the system that really allows the system to shine. Hopefully you'll be doing all your own modeling and tool pathing.

btw-this is why you'll see ads for machinists from $10/hr. to $30/hr.
 
Good luck on the job, can be quite promising.

I've only run a machine for maybe a total of 2 hours, but know it can be a good job for those that excell at it. I'd like to get more floor time with the machines since I do the drawings that the machinists make and I think it will help me doing so. And if you can get into programming all the better as running the machines should help you understand what you are programming into it.
 
randay said:
machinist with no experience? good way to lose a finger.
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Being an older guy, when I first started in the field I'd say a good 25% of older die makers and machinists I met had some deformity due to the job. Most people would look around a die room at all the intimidating machinery and never guess that the number one cause for injuries was the pedestal grinder. I've had a couple of close calls myself. They're rather unforgiving to people that don't adjust or use them correctly. 🙂
 
Squisher said:
Being an older guy, when I first started in the field I'd say a good 25% of older die makers and machinists I met had some deformity due to the job. Most people would look around a die room at all the intimidating machinery and never guess that the number one cause for injuries was the pedestal grinder. I've had a couple of close calls myself. They're rather unforgiving to people that don't adjust or use them correctly. 🙂
Click to expand...

Yeah, carelessness = bad, especially on a punch press.
 
Squisher said:
Being an older guy, when I first started in the field I'd say a good 25% of older die makers and machinists I met had some deformity due to the job. Most people would look around a die room at all the intimidating machinery and never guess that the number one cause for injuries was the pedestal grinder. I've had a couple of close calls myself. They're rather unforgiving to people that don't adjust or use them correctly. 🙂
Click to expand...

Ive seen people at work who dont know how to use a bench grinder and are freehanding whatever they are working on, and when something grips and flings into the machine, they dont turn off the machine to take it out, they just reach in and grab it. I see this happen maybe once a month and at some point they will get hurt and all I will say is "told you so."
 
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