Any gay ATOT'ers here?

[Lord Evermore]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: 3NF
It does? The last I checked, my wife with a strap on isn't a guy.

oh yeh? better check again. :Q

It's plastic and it can come on or off - mine doesn't do that! Maybe she's a hermaphrodite

TMI

I think we reached that point when we learned he likes it IDB with a strapon.

 

[Lord Evermore]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: 3NF

Originally posted by: moshquerade

juvenile.

although, homosexuals aren't the only ones who do it IDB.

Many heterosexual men like it IDB. What does that say!

that would make them bisexual.

How you do it doesn't define your orientation anymore than who you choose to do it with. Less even.

Is a girl that likes it IDB or likes to give it with a strapon actually a gay man?

 

[Lord Evermore]

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: DefDC
I've never understood the churches fascination with the gay people. Let it go. People are going to be gay. People are going to eat ham. People will eat meat on Friday. It's all the same level of offense...

The Church isn't fascinated at all. It you who are fascinated by it all. The Catholic Church considers it a sin but is in no way fascinated by it.

She (or not, how should I know) actually said "the churches", not The Church. In general all Christian and Islamic groups spend an inordinate amount of time telling people that being gay is a horrendous thing. I don't see priests/ministers going on TV on a daily basis trying to talk murderers into not killing anybody anymore, rapists not to rape, people eating meat on Friday not to do that. One can hardly term homosexuality worse of a sin than murder, yet it gets way more airtime, of preachers screaming of hellfire and damnation, and that gays shouldn't be allowed equal rights. Of course more fundamental Islam followers pretty much think the punishment for all of those sins should be death. I don't know about Jews, I don't really see many rabbis talking about it. Maybe they know better than to focus on one small group and vilify them just for being different.

The Church may not focus on it as much as outspoken Protestant groups, but that's not necessarily because it doesn't feel similarly. Members of the Catholic Church follow what the Vatican says, and the Pope doesn't spend much time on it, so the bishops and others can't spend all day on TV every day talking about it. That is in some ways better, since there are more important things to talk about, but it doesn't mean that Catholics aren't just as bigoted and homophobic, and just as likely to be uncomfortable around a homosexual, or to decide not to associate with one after finding out. The Church being unaccepting and intolerant of a gay lifestyle makes it just as bad as fundamentalist Protestants.

 

[animalia]

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: DefDC
I've never understood the churches fascination with the gay people. Let it go. People are going to be gay. People are going to eat ham. People will eat meat on Friday. It's all the same level of offense...

The Church isn't fascinated at all. It you who are fascinated by it all. The Catholic Church considers it a sin but is in no way fascinated by it.

She (or not, how should I know) actually said "the churches", not The Church. In general all Christian and Islamic groups spend an inordinate amount of time telling people that being gay is a horrendous thing. I don't see priests/ministers going on TV on a daily basis trying to talk murderers into not killing anybody anymore, rapists not to rape, people eating meat on Friday not to do that. One can hardly term homosexuality worse of a sin than murder, yet it gets way more airtime, of preachers screaming of hellfire and damnation, and that gays shouldn't be allowed equal rights. Of course more fundamental Islam followers pretty much think the punishment for all of those sins should be death. I don't know about Jews, I don't really see many rabbis talking about it. Maybe they know better than to focus on one small group and vilify them just for being different.

The Church may not focus on it as much as outspoken Protestant groups, but that's not necessarily because it doesn't feel similarly. Members of the Catholic Church follow what the Vatican says, and the Pope doesn't spend much time on it, so the bishops and others can't spend all day on TV every day talking about it. That is in some ways better, since there are more important things to talk about, but it doesn't mean that Catholics aren't just as bigoted and homophobic, and just as likely to be uncomfortable around a homosexual, or to decide not to associate with one after finding out. The Church being unaccepting and intolerant of a gay lifestyle makes it just as bad as fundamentalist Protestants.

Right, I misread 'churches'. Oops.

Catholics teach to love everyone. Catholics are saying it is wrong because they love them. This is only feasable if you understand that love, in the Catholic sense would include wanting a person to be free from sin. Catholics believe it is a sin, but are not bigoted in any way. When the Pope speaks out on homosexuality he is doing it out of genuine love, not bigotry or hatred. Again, Catholics want all to be free from sin, and the fact that they want homosexuals to change is because of their love and their faith. There are exceptions as with many or most things, but this is ultimately the case. I am just trying to defend something that I feel is misunderstood and in no way am trying to start an argument

 

[DefDC]

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: DefDC
I've never understood the churches fascination with the gay people. Let it go. People are going to be gay. People are going to eat ham. People will eat meat on Friday. It's all the same level of offense...

The Church isn't fascinated at all. It you who are fascinated by it all. The Catholic Church considers it a sin but is in no way fascinated by it.

She (or not, how should I know) actually said "the churches", not The Church. In general all Christian and Islamic groups spend an inordinate amount of time telling people that being gay is a horrendous thing. I don't see priests/ministers going on TV on a daily basis trying to talk murderers into not killing anybody anymore, rapists not to rape, people eating meat on Friday not to do that. One can hardly term homosexuality worse of a sin than murder, yet it gets way more airtime, of preachers screaming of hellfire and damnation, and that gays shouldn't be allowed equal rights. Of course more fundamental Islam followers pretty much think the punishment for all of those sins should be death. I don't know about Jews, I don't really see many rabbis talking about it. Maybe they know better than to focus on one small group and vilify them just for being different.

The Church may not focus on it as much as outspoken Protestant groups, but that's not necessarily because it doesn't feel similarly. Members of the Catholic Church follow what the Vatican says, and the Pope doesn't spend much time on it, so the bishops and others can't spend all day on TV every day talking about it. That is in some ways better, since there are more important things to talk about, but it doesn't mean that Catholics aren't just as bigoted and homophobic, and just as likely to be uncomfortable around a homosexual, or to decide not to associate with one after finding out. The Church being unaccepting and intolerant of a gay lifestyle makes it just as bad as fundamentalist Protestants.

Right, I misread 'churches'. Oops.

Catholics teach to love everyone. Catholics are saying it is wrong because they love them. This is only feasable if you understand that love, in the Catholic sense would include wanting a person to be free from sin. Catholics believe it is a sin, but are not bigoted in any way. When the Pope speaks out on homosexuality he is doing it out of genuine love, not bigotry or hatred. Again, Catholics want all to be free from sin, and the fact that they want homosexuals to change is because of their love and their faith. There are exceptions as with many or most things, but this is ultimately the case. I am just trying to defend something that I feel is misunderstood and in no way am trying to start an argument

Being raiseed Catholic, I know what you are trying to say, but I can't see any evidence of this love. If they truely wanted to love the sinner, they wouldn't keeping banning outed church members from social functions, church memberships, and clergy positions. They do their best to run them out of town, further causing the misconception that gays are not to be trusted around their families in any way.

And, again, I'm not talking about ALL Catholics. I just can't remember any Catholic priest saying "This gay man is our BROTHER, and has not commited any sin worse than the rest of us. He deserves our love and forgiveness."

If I heard that.. Even once.... Well, I won't, so I don't need to finish that sentence...

 

[animalia]

Originally posted by: DefDC

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: Lord Evermore

Originally posted by: animalia

Originally posted by: DefDC
I've never understood the churches fascination with the gay people. Let it go. People are going to be gay. People are going to eat ham. People will eat meat on Friday. It's all the same level of offense...

The Church isn't fascinated at all. It you who are fascinated by it all. The Catholic Church considers it a sin but is in no way fascinated by it.

She (or not, how should I know) actually said "the churches", not The Church. In general all Christian and Islamic groups spend an inordinate amount of time telling people that being gay is a horrendous thing. I don't see priests/ministers going on TV on a daily basis trying to talk murderers into not killing anybody anymore, rapists not to rape, people eating meat on Friday not to do that. One can hardly term homosexuality worse of a sin than murder, yet it gets way more airtime, of preachers screaming of hellfire and damnation, and that gays shouldn't be allowed equal rights. Of course more fundamental Islam followers pretty much think the punishment for all of those sins should be death. I don't know about Jews, I don't really see many rabbis talking about it. Maybe they know better than to focus on one small group and vilify them just for being different.

The Church may not focus on it as much as outspoken Protestant groups, but that's not necessarily because it doesn't feel similarly. Members of the Catholic Church follow what the Vatican says, and the Pope doesn't spend much time on it, so the bishops and others can't spend all day on TV every day talking about it. That is in some ways better, since there are more important things to talk about, but it doesn't mean that Catholics aren't just as bigoted and homophobic, and just as likely to be uncomfortable around a homosexual, or to decide not to associate with one after finding out. The Church being unaccepting and intolerant of a gay lifestyle makes it just as bad as fundamentalist Protestants.

Right, I misread 'churches'. Oops.

Catholics teach to love everyone. Catholics are saying it is wrong because they love them. This is only feasable if you understand that love, in the Catholic sense would include wanting a person to be free from sin. Catholics believe it is a sin, but are not bigoted in any way. When the Pope speaks out on homosexuality he is doing it out of genuine love, not bigotry or hatred. Again, Catholics want all to be free from sin, and the fact that they want homosexuals to change is because of their love and their faith. There are exceptions as with many or most things, but this is ultimately the case. I am just trying to defend something that I feel is misunderstood and in no way am trying to start an argument

Being raiseed Catholic, I know what you are trying to say, but I can't see any evidence of this love. If they truely wanted to love the sinner, they wouldn't keeping banning outed church members from social functions, church memberships, and clergy positions. They do their best to run them out of town, further causing the misconception that gays are not to be trusted around their families in any way.

And, again, I'm not talking about ALL Catholics. I just can't remember any Catholic priest saying "This gay man is our BROTHER, and has not commited any sin worse than the rest of us. He deserves our love and forgiveness."

If I heard that.. Even once.... Well, I won't, so I don't need to finish that sentence...

Really, well I have heard it said. The sin is no worse, but they live a life that forces them to sin, according to Catholic faith. This is why they are not allowed to become priests or Church members. Only once they make sin more occasional and less a requirement for living will they be allowed to become a priest. They do deserve forgiveness and love. Do you need to hear your mom tell you she loves you everyday? Or do you know it already? I would guess you know it already. I know she told you one many times, but everyone is a sinner and we are all equal in God's eyes.

 

[classy]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Could have just said "any fudge packers here"?

Or he could have asked "Any rump roasters here"? :laugh:

 

[IAteYourMother]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: DefDC
Sorry people. The Bible says that a man laying with another man is an ABOMINATION. End of story....

What does it say about priests sexually molesting little boys?

that's why the church condemns it :roll:

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

Yes. Every animal. Well documented, and recorded observations show that any type of animal, if left with one or more of its same-sex types, will mount its companion(s).

I see this on a regular basis working in a mouse lab. Animal science folks whom I know speak about this in regards to bulls, cats, whatever... (Though, I am pretty sure that this behavior is not found in reptiles. Interesting, when you consider the brain stem (the "reptile brain") in humans/mammals is virtually identical to that in all reptiles)

In fact, females will mount other females as well. As far as a I know though...this behavior has not garnered a funded research project. The genetics have been studied a few times over, but I'm not sure about the behavior

It is, despite what Faldwell and his clan will have you believe, a very natural thing.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: gamepad

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

I hear there is a species of ram where a group of male rams live isolated from females and make do with what they have.

As I stated recently...it's not a species of Ram. It is Ram. Or bulls...or any milk-producing, ungulating or otherwise land-walker.

And if you want to consider humans...I give you our federal penal system as exhibit A

(No--"penal" is not just a clever pun)

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

Here's a list

Well then...guess I was wrong about the reptiles. .....Fundies be damned!

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I'm REALLY, HONESTLY not trying to be offensive here, just curious. My curiosity stems from hearing about how hard it is for people to grow up gay. I mean, from peer pressure to parents it's not an easy thing, i'd imagine. Hell, from those two things alone i think you can make a pretty strong argument that being gay is genetic. I can't imagine many 12 year olds on the verge of adolescence thinking "hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Anyway, here's the question for any gays here: If you could snap your fingers and become heterosexual, would you? Or rather, since most of the gay people reading this have probably already established their lives around a gay identity... if you could have become heterosexual back when you first realized you were gay, would you? Imagine for a moment that you were just as attracted to women as you are to men. Imagine yourself not missing being gay, because you were never of that inclination to begin with.

So?

Open the choices a bit more.
Asexual
Homosexual
Bi-sexual
Heterosexual

As a very gay friend of mine once explained to me, "Bi-sexuals are just fags that won't admit that they are fags." I laughed becuase it's true...ime

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Best place to start asking is at a far right Christian church in the Colroado suburbs. Ofcourse start with the leaders of the church, the guys condemning gays to hell.

The Church has no right in condemning anyone. Only God has that authority. That is why I am not Catholic (although many Protestant churches are beginning to use their power to claim authority over it's members).

The 2 referred to were those suburban all white Born Again churches, they claim a big difference from Catholics. But I'm just an observer and a hater to be honest.

Regardless, no church has moral authority over anyone.

Well...2 posts up you claimed that being homosexual is a sin--based entirely on what the bible claims. Care to Justify this last statement in regards to your beliefs on moral superiority?

 

[dug777]

GAYTOT!

:Q

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: JS80

From personal experience: every gay person I *personally* know had either abusive or extreme parents, or were sexually molested as a child. I can't say if this is correlation or causation, but this is a repeated story I have heard from others.

From observing nature: I would expect there to be gay animals if it were a natural thing. But there are no true homosexual animals.

From the Bible: Bible suggests (does not say 100%, but says it is a sin) homosexuality is not natural.

My conclusion: I lean towards some nuture but ultimately it's choice. Even if it is a deep inside *urge* to be gay, ultimately is it the individual's choice to act out on that urge.

First off, it's nice to see a religious person in this thread who isn't spouting off hatred. :thumbsup:

I'd agree that there isn't a single "gay" gene that determines whether or not you become a homosexual. I think genetics give a person a certain inclination, but then their environment pushes them one way or the other (nature/nurture).

As for why there are no gay animals... well, gay animals wouldn't be passing on their genes. With humans homosexuality has long been a taboo, with gays marrying women, having kids, etc. Heck, my friend sold his house to a couple gay guys, one of whom had 3 kids. Or look at the ex-governor of NJ - he's gay, but before he came out he started a family.

"sinning" is a crime against god and nature, yes? claiming homosexuality as a "sin" is a mere euphamisim undercutting hate speach.

don't get me wrong...i don't mean to be "judgmental" towards JS80's character...that would be a sin.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: JS80

People who live hetero lives and later "give in" to homosexuality is further evidence to me that it is a choice. I mean, the guy is able to get hard, bang his wife, and have kids. Ultimately he is choosing to abandon his family to be with another man.

But the governor of NJ, for example, said himself that he knew he was gay for a long time. The urges didn't change, he simply couldn't keep it hidden forever.

Yes, he did make a choice to ignore the urges, but that doesn't mean he was a heterosexual... it just means he was ignoring his homosexual urges.

Wait...now you're making sense...what's going on here?

 

[Chaotic42]

Originally posted by: Mrfrog840
God did NOT intend for there to be homosexuals. If he did, he would of created adam and steve, not adam and eve.

Who are you to pretend to understand the intention and the will of God?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod


As for why there are no gay animals... well, gay animals wouldn't be passing on their genes.

Wrong. There are gay animals, and people posted links about it before your post.


It's obvious that those who think it's a choice are holy rollers who blindly regurgitate the church's line and don't think for themselves. Your urges come from within you, you don't decide what you like and don't like. Sure, you can have sex with a steaming pile of dog crap if you forced yourself to do so, but that doesn't mean you had the urge to do it. For me, I have a urge to be closer to a woman. I'm not forcing myself against my will to do it, it's an urge. I have no urge to do that with a man. It's not really a choice, as the motivating force is instinctual.

Why do you have to bring up the church? The same could be said about you. You blindly give into the whitewashing propaganda by gay groups blah blah blah.

Some people have urges to have sex with 12 year olds or go on a strangle spree and have sex with carcasses. Is it justified just because it's an "urge"? (disclaimer - I am in no way equivocating homosexuality to child molestation or serial murder)

Brilliant. You're compairing homosexuality with bestiality. You, sir, have read and seen very little in your life. Please stay in Kansas or Texas (where you belong), and don't try to "educate" my children.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JS80


From observing nature: I would expect there to be gay animals if it were a natural thing. But there are no true homosexual animals.

This is incorrect. Homosexuality does occur in some animals.

You can't prove either way that animals are homosexual. Show me an animal where 2 males have anal sex and jizz on each other. Then I will believe that homosexuality is not choice.

Bonobo monkeys frequently masturbate each other. Does this work for you?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JS80

So if someone came to the same conclusion (by themselves without any outside influence) as some of these idiot churches you're going to ASSume they are a "holy roller"?

You quoted the Bible among your reasons that it's a choice. That's a surefire way to make one think that you're a holy roller.

You obviously don't understand Christianity, no more than the fringe groups that condemn people to hell.

And You strike me as somone who has never read, and properly interpreted a word from "Christ's" mouth on your own power.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

Imho, your statements has no pertinence to the OP's question. And, fwiw, I disagree with you and think suboptimal conditions lead to people being inclined that way.

my statement is related to the issue posed in the question.

explain these "suboptimal conditions" that lead to homosexuality.

Lack of father figure growing up, bad experiences with girls early on, molestation, people treating you like you're gay and making you doubt yourself, burning out/boredom with "orinary" sex, etc. Chart the rise in homosexuality with the increased number of broken homes.

Also, I have a cousin who is gay. He met the first condition above and I recall him stating in his adolescent years that he "wanted" to be gay and, surprise, he's now gay.

So, uh, what's your reason? You heard some guy on TV say something once? :thumbsup:

I don't know what programs you are watching on TV, but I've never heard a guy on "TV say something" even once about people being born with an inherent tendency to be homosexual. Your assumption that I am basing my opinion on a talking head on TV is borderline insultive and the reason that a lot of these threads do indeed become flame wars.

The reason I believe people are born homosexual is the same reason I believe people are born heterosexual. We have these feelings either way from the beginning. We can try to deny them, but they are there no matter what we do.

I know many gay people and they did not come from single parent homes, abusive homes, etc.
Otherwise, how would you explain siblings in the same exact home, and the same exact conditions NOT being gay?

And who wasn't picked on in their youth? It doesn't make someone "turn gay".
Also, I've never come across someone who couldn't get a girlfriend so they turned to pursuing a boyfriend. The only time I've seen that is because the person truly didn't have their heart into girls and they were in denial about their homosexuality.

Is there a "rise in homosexuality" or is there just a rise in those who dare to admit and to practice homosexuality? Even though not universally accepted, homosexuality is far more tolerated by the populace than it used to be, and more have dared to come out of the closet. That accounts for the "rise in homosexuality".

You're not technically gay until you act out on it. So I would say there technically IS a "rise in homosexuality" because of the "acceptance" by it in modern civilization, more people are willing to "try it out."

I'm glad that you are the expert on defining what "gay is...as the world would be helpless without your imput.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Platypus
Hmm, I'll do something I've never done before and reply to one of these threads.

I love these threads.... where straight people sit around and argue whether or not being gay is a choice or not.

There's no silver bullet here but I'll chime in my personal experience: no, being gay is NOT a choice, it's something I've known as long as I've been able to have cognitive thought. Would I snap my fingers and become straight? That's a question I don't think I can answer.

One part of me would say hell yes, that way I can stop living the two completely different lives that have been tearing me apart for 13 years... I can live a normal life where because of something completely out of my control, I'm seen as a lesser human being. I can wake up in the morning and say 'I'm so glad I don't have to worry about my supposedly close friends turning on me because of what I like to do in my bedroom.' I can be a person defined by my actions instead of by my sexual preference. I get so tired of lying to people all the time at work about why I don't have a girlfriend or why I don't like oggling all the girls at work, coming to functions alone rather than make everyone there uncomfortable by showing up with a guy. I'm stuck in that position where I don't want to tell people because it's none of their business but at the same time I'm tired of painting a pretty picture to cover up the truth.

The other part says.. fvck those people. Forget all the ignorant close minded assholes who think they're somehow better than I am because they rolled a 6 instead of a 2 in the game of life. Being gay has made me who I am today and for that I don't think I'd change anything. I wouldn't want to be just like everyone else, the status quo. The way I've had to live my life for so long like I'm a walking virus to people, always worried that I'd make people uncomfortable, that's made me the person I am today.. a much more compassionate, caring person completely open to lots of ideas and choices. I won't lie and say that this is easy for me to post, in fact I've avoided the topic for years here because I want people to know me for who I am inside, not what I do in my room. I don't think it matters but obviously there are those out there that do.

I invited a very homophobic member of this forum to come hang out with me one time. He had no idea that I was gay and I didn't feel it neccesary to bring up because it's no one's business. En route he discovered the truth and he told me he pulled off to the side of the road halfway here and contemplated turning around and not seeing it through. He ended up coming and realizing that there's no way you'd know unless I told you. Lots of people have this image in their minds of gay people, fashion concious, lisp talking, emotional.. I'm just a regular guy, I like beer and football and all the normal things everyone else does from my sex. He said he felt so sad that for so long he was so hateful and ignorant to the way things really were that he thanked me so much for showing him that we're just normal people too. He's still a good friend till this day and I'm proud to call him the same.

I won't lie and say it's easy.. hell I've been sitting here hovering over the post button for 20 minutes now, but I've finally gotten the courage to just say fvck it, I can't change this and I might as well get used to it or I'll continue to live a horrible life of depression and self-loathing. If that causes people to think of me differently, fine, I'm not going to stop that no matter how hard I try, but hopefully someone out there who's been hiding as long as I have will read this and get the tiny piece of hope someone gave me not so long ago.

Does that help?

Amen, brother. The way I see it...the information age has allowed the rest of the world to see...uh, the rest of the world. It's only a matter of time before acceptance of reality sinks in. Archaic moralities will die out (children tend to resent their parents when they feed them ideas that so clearly contradict the reality presented before them; hence--ignorance will die with the fundies, eventually)

I think you should be more comfortable with your coworkers (I don't know where you work...so maybe not as easy?). I've worked with several gay people, and none have been closeted, to any stretch of the imaginiation. (Seems a lot of gay folk work in science...maybe it's the logical nature?) Anyhoo, I'm not used to being around gays that are uncomfortable in their daily work lives, but maybe that's just my experience.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged

Originally posted by: Platypus
Hmm, I'll do something I've never done before and reply to one of these threads.

I love these threads.... where straight people sit around and argue whether or not being gay is a choice or not.

There's no silver bullet here but I'll chime in my personal experience: no, being gay is NOT a choice, it's something I've known as long as I've been able to have cognitive thought. Would I snap my fingers and become straight? That's a question I don't think I can answer.

One part of me would say hell yes, that way I can stop living the two completely different lives that have been tearing me apart for 13 years... I can live a normal life where because of something completely out of my control, I'm seen as a lesser human being. I can wake up in the morning and say 'I'm so glad I don't have to worry about my supposedly close friends turning on me because of what I like to do in my bedroom.' I can be a person defined by my actions instead of by my sexual preference. I get so tired of lying to people all the time at work about why I don't have a girlfriend or why I don't like oggling all the girls at work, coming to functions alone rather than make everyone there uncomfortable by showing up with a guy. I'm stuck in that position where I don't want to tell people because it's none of their business but at the same time I'm tired of painting a pretty picture to cover up the truth.

The other part says.. fvck those people. Forget all the ignorant close minded assholes who think they're somehow better than I am because they rolled a 6 instead of a 2 in the game of life. Being gay has made me who I am today and for that I don't think I'd change anything. I wouldn't want to be just like everyone else, the status quo. The way I've had to live my life for so long like I'm a walking virus to people, always worried that I'd make people uncomfortable, that's made me the person I am today.. a much more compassionate, caring person completely open to lots of ideas and choices. I won't lie and say that this is easy for me to post, in fact I've avoided the topic for years here because I want people to know me for who I am inside, not what I do in my room. I don't think it matters but obviously there are those out there that do.

I invited a very homophobic member of this forum to come hang out with me one time. He had no idea that I was gay and I didn't feel it neccesary to bring up because it's no one's business. En route he discovered the truth and he told me he pulled off to the side of the road halfway here and contemplated turning around and not seeing it through. He ended up coming and realizing that there's no way you'd know unless I told you. Lots of people have this image in their minds of gay people, fashion concious, lisp talking, emotional.. I'm just a regular guy, I like beer and football and all the normal things everyone else does from my sex. He said he felt so sad that for so long he was so hateful and ignorant to the way things really were that he thanked me so much for showing him that we're just normal people too. He's still a good friend till this day and I'm proud to call him the same.

I won't lie and say it's easy.. hell I've been sitting here hovering over the post button for 20 minutes now, but I've finally gotten the courage to just say fvck it, I can't change this and I might as well get used to it or I'll continue to live a horrible life of depression and self-loathing. If that causes people to think of me differently, fine, I'm not going to stop that no matter how hard I try, but hopefully someone out there who's been hiding as long as I have will read this and get the tiny piece of hope someone gave me not so long ago.

Does that help?

That took balls and honestly. Props, man. :thumbsup:

It's to my shame that I admit I was the ATOT'er mentioned in Drew's thread. Thanks for taking the time, man.

:music:On the turning away...:music:

Wow...you guys should be on Oprah. Will they play the Floyd in the background?

 

[GeekDrew]

Originally posted by: zinfamous
Anyhoo, I'm not used to being around gays that are uncomfortable in their daily work lives, but maybe that's just my experience.

How would you know, if they are uncomfortable to the extent that they are afraid to say that they are gay?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: ariafrost

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: JS80


From observing nature: I would expect there to be gay animals if it were a natural thing. But there are no true homosexual animals.

This is incorrect. Homosexuality does occur in some animals.

You can't prove either way that animals are homosexual. Show me an animal where 2 males have anal sex and jizz on each other. Then I will believe that homosexuality is not choice.

It's easy to prove. Observe a bunch of animals and watch their sexual patterns. If you see males normally mounting females, you know the animal has a tendency to do that. But if you see a male exclusively mounting other males, that animal is gay. Animals have been observed doing this.

If they are exclusively homosexual their genes are not passed on. Doesn't that make you think that there's more to this than genes? It's funny that the same left wing which wants free choice/will in every other area (abortion, etc.) claims that being homosexual is not a choice.

Disclaimer: I have no political affiliations.

I see your point; your question makes sense; but only in terms of someone who doesn't understand genetics....and very simple genetics at that.

Ignore this fact first: Many people who would be defined sociataly as "gay," do have children. They accept their gayness afterwards. (Shamed through religion to have a "normal" life). So...their genes are passed on. And yes, their kids will have a strange childhoold. So, this is not the perfectly controlled test group that researchers prefer...not to say that it isn't valid.

Second, there are significantly less gays than there are straight folks in the world (Sorry, don't know specific numbers, and it's hard to honestly quantify, being that admitting you are gay on a survey is not the easiest thing to do for some people). So...what does that tell you about genes getting passed on? If you're still confused, you may want to retake that 7th-grade Mendelian genetics elective that you slept through.