Any gay ATOT'ers here?

[maximus maximus]

Originally posted by: gamepad

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

I hear there is a species of ram where a group of male rams live isolated from females and make do with what they have.

how does their population grow then?

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I'm REALLY, HONESTLY not trying to be offensive here, just curious. My curiosity stems from hearing about how hard it is for people to grow up gay. I mean, from peer pressure to parents it's not an easy thing, i'd imagine. Hell, from those two things alone i think you can make a pretty strong argument that being gay is genetic. I can't imagine many 12 year olds on the verge of adolescence thinking "hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Anyway, here's the question for any gays here: If you could snap your fingers and become heterosexual, would you? Or rather, since most of the gay people reading this have probably already established their lives around a gay identity... if you could have become heterosexual back when you first realized you were gay, would you? Imagine for a moment that you were just as attracted to women as you are to men. Imagine yourself not missing being gay, because you were never of that inclination to begin with.

So?

I'm not gay, but when you state the question like that I don't think anyone COULD say they'd rather be gay. All you're losing is one reason for people to be bigoted toward you. There is no inherent advantage to being gay, but there are inherent advantages to being straight.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read my comment outside of the context of the OP and flame me...

Everyone wants to be WASP millionaires.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

The spark that will cause the flames was just struck.

explain your comment.

I think he's saying that there are people who will disagree with you and this will turn into a flame war. But you were really just restating what the OP said, so he really can't blame you.

i welcome anyone to disagree with me, and i'd really like to hear an explanation of their position on the issue.

I disagree with you. I see no flames.

 

[gamepad]

Originally posted by: maximus maximus

Originally posted by: gamepad

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

I hear there is a species of ram where a group of male rams live isolated from females and make do with what they have.

how does their population grow then?

The male rams aren't permanently isolated; they're just kind of separated for a while. When they encounter females again they get it on like crazy.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Best place to start asking is at a far right Christian church in the Colroado suburbs. Ofcourse start with the leaders of the church, the guys condemning gays to hell.

The Church has no right in condemning anyone. Only God has that authority. That is why I am not Catholic (although many Protestant churches are beginning to use their power to claim authority over it's members).

well, i am Catholic, and that doesn't mean i have to agree with all of the church's teachings.

Touche. (bad Catholic. Baaad!! )

 

[funboy6942]

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

My female dog humps all the other dogs I own and the other are all female as well. And NONE of the other female dogs tries hump one another, just the one, she goes to town like she is a mail dog, go figure that one out, and explain to a 6 year old why a female dog is acting like a male dog.

I also understand there was a study done on monkeys and some of them were acting homosexually, along with, I believe, penguins too.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

The spark that will cause the flames was just struck.

explain your comment.

I think he's saying that there are people who will disagree with you and this will turn into a flame war. But you were really just restating what the OP said, so he really can't blame you.

i welcome anyone to disagree with me, and i'd really like to hear an explanation of their position on the issue.

I disagree with you. I see no flames.

cool enough, but can you explain why you disagree? you think being homosexual comes from nuture and not nature?

 

[Turin39789]

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

Here's a list

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

Imho, your statements has no pertinence to the OP's question. And, fwiw, I disagree with you and think suboptimal conditions lead to people being inclined that way.

 

[gamepad]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

Imho, your statements has no pertinence to the OP's question. And, fwiw, I disagree with you and think suboptimal conditions lead to people being inclined that way.

Here we go.

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

Imho, your statements has no pertinence to the OP's question. And, fwiw, I disagree with you and think suboptimal conditions lead to people being inclined that way.

my statement is related to the issue posed in the question.

explain these "suboptimal conditions" that lead to homosexuality.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod
I'm REALLY, HONESTLY not trying to be offensive here, just curious. My curiosity stems from hearing about how hard it is for people to grow up gay. I mean, from peer pressure to parents it's not an easy thing, i'd imagine. Hell, from those two things alone i think you can make a pretty strong argument that being gay is genetic. I can't imagine many 12 year olds on the verge of adolescence thinking "hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Anyway, here's the question for any gays here: If you could snap your fingers and become heterosexual, would you? Or rather, since most of the gay people reading this have probably already established their lives around a gay identity... if you could have become heterosexual back when you first realized you were gay, would you? Imagine for a moment that you were just as attracted to women as you are to men. Imagine yourself not missing being gay, because you were never of that inclination to begin with.

So?

Open the choices a bit more.
Asexual
Homosexual
Bi-sexual
Heterosexual

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Best place to start asking is at a far right Christian church in the Colroado suburbs. Ofcourse start with the leaders of the church, the guys condemning gays to hell.

The Church has no right in condemning anyone. Only God has that authority. That is why I am not Catholic (although many Protestant churches are beginning to use their power to claim authority over it's members).

The 2 referred to were those suburban all white Born Again churches, they claim a big difference from Catholics. But I'm just an observer and a hater to be honest.

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Open the choices a bit more.
Asexual
Homosexual
Bi-sexual
Heterosexual

Most of those are valid, i just said homosexual because it seems like the most common alternate orientation. I didn't say heterosexual because i haven't heard of many cases of heterosexuals facing widespread discrimination and bigotry.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: moshquerade
cool enough, but can you explain why you disagree? you think being homosexual comes from nuture and not nature?

From personal experience: every gay person I *personally* know had either abusive or extreme parents, or were sexually molested as a child. I can't say if this is correlation or causation, but this is a repeated story I have heard from others.

From observing nature: I would expect there to be gay animals if it were a natural thing. But there are no true homosexual animals.

From the Bible: Bible suggests (does not say 100%, but says it is a sin) homosexuality is not natural.

My conclusion: I lean towards some nuture but ultimately it's choice. Even if it is a deep inside *urge* to be gay, ultimately is it the individual's choice to act out on that urge.

For the flamers: I am not an anti-gay bigot. Although I believe it is a sin, we are all sinners and have our faults. I make no judgments on anyone based on their lifestyle choice. The only beef I have is people who try to shove their viewpoint down the public's throat (pun not intended) to justify their lifestyle. It's just as bad as the hypocrites who shove their morality down our throats and claim homos go to hell.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

Here's a list

That's a big list, but it'd be more interesting if it included details about the homosexual behavior that has been observed in each of those animals. The criteria at the top are pretty broad.

 

[hanoverphist]

Originally posted by: lyssword

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

yeah prolly

ever watch a group of male dogs? they dont discriminate at all.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: TheSlamma

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: TheSlamma
Best place to start asking is at a far right Christian church in the Colroado suburbs. Ofcourse start with the leaders of the church, the guys condemning gays to hell.

The Church has no right in condemning anyone. Only God has that authority. That is why I am not Catholic (although many Protestant churches are beginning to use their power to claim authority over it's members).

The 2 referred to were those suburban all white Born Again churches, they claim a big difference from Catholics. But I'm just an observer and a hater to be honest.

Regardless, no church has moral authority over anyone.

 

[ElFenix]

"hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

while being gay is most likely something ingrained that isn't 'chosen' in any sense of the word, millions of people do make choices that do exactly that. for instance:

"hey, i think i'll be emo, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

"hey, i think i'll be goth, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

"hey, i think i'll smoke crack, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

"hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

while being gay is most likely something ingrained that isn't 'chosen' in any sense of the word, millions of people do make choices that do exactly that. for instance:

"hey, i think i'll be emo, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

"hey, i think i'll be goth, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

"hey, i think i'll smoke crack, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

very good analogies.

 

[BigSmooth]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: Turin39789

Originally posted by: maximus maximus
I have a question... do any other animals, part from human beings, have a tendency to be gay?

Here's a list

That's a big list, but it'd be more interesting if it included details about the homosexual behavior that has been observed in each of those animals. The criteria at the top are pretty broad.

Bit more info here

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: JS80

From personal experience: every gay person I *personally* know had either abusive or extreme parents, or were sexually molested as a child. I can't say if this is correlation or causation, but this is a repeated story I have heard from others.

From observing nature: I would expect there to be gay animals if it were a natural thing. But there are no true homosexual animals.

From the Bible: Bible suggests (does not say 100%, but says it is a sin) homosexuality is not natural.

My conclusion: I lean towards some nuture but ultimately it's choice. Even if it is a deep inside *urge* to be gay, ultimately is it the individual's choice to act out on that urge.

First off, it's nice to see a religious person in this thread who isn't spouting off hatred. :thumbsup:

I'd agree that there isn't a single "gay" gene that determines whether or not you become a homosexual. I think genetics give a person a certain inclination, but then their environment pushes them one way or the other (nature/nurture).

As for why there are no gay animals... well, gay animals wouldn't be passing on their genes. With humans homosexuality has long been a taboo, with gays marrying women, having kids, etc. Heck, my friend sold his house to a couple gay guys, one of whom had 3 kids. Or look at the ex-governor of NJ - he's gay, but before he came out he started a family.

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

"hey, i think i'll be gay, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

while being gay is most likely something ingrained that isn't 'chosen' in any sense of the word, millions of people do make choices that do exactly that. for instance:

"hey, i think i'll be emo, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

"hey, i think i'll be goth, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

"hey, i think i'll smoke crack, get ostracized from my peers, run the risk of my parents disowning me, and just learn to live in a society that doesnt like me!"

Parents dont disown their children for being emo or goth any more than they would for their kid dying their hair purple. People expect weird clothes, styles, and attitudes from teenagers. It's expected that cliques form and that kids want to make statements. They grow out of all that, though.

And smoking crack is obviously a choice, doctors aren't getting babies addicted to crack before they leave the hospital.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: JS80

From personal experience: every gay person I *personally* know had either abusive or extreme parents, or were sexually molested as a child. I can't say if this is correlation or causation, but this is a repeated story I have heard from others.

From observing nature: I would expect there to be gay animals if it were a natural thing. But there are no true homosexual animals.

From the Bible: Bible suggests (does not say 100%, but says it is a sin) homosexuality is not natural.

My conclusion: I lean towards some nuture but ultimately it's choice. Even if it is a deep inside *urge* to be gay, ultimately is it the individual's choice to act out on that urge.

First off, it's nice to see a religious person in this thread who isn't spouting off hatred. :thumbsup:

I'd agree that there isn't a single "gay" gene that determines whether or not you become a homosexual. I think genetics give a person a certain inclination, but then their environment pushes them one way or the other (nature/nurture).

As for why there are no gay animals... well, gay animals wouldn't be passing on their genes. With humans homosexuality has long been a taboo, with gays marrying women, having kids, etc. Heck, my friend sold his house to a couple gay guys, one of whom had 3 kids. Or look at the ex-governor of NJ - he's gay, but before he came out he started a family.

People who live hetero lives and later "give in" to homosexuality is further evidence to me that it is a choice. I mean, the guy is able to get hard, bang his wife, and have kids. Ultimately he is choosing to abandon his family to be with another man.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: moshquerade
imho, no one chooses to be gay. they are just born that way.

Imho, your statements has no pertinence to the OP's question. And, fwiw, I disagree with you and think suboptimal conditions lead to people being inclined that way.

my statement is related to the issue posed in the question.

explain these "suboptimal conditions" that lead to homosexuality.

Lack of father figure growing up, bad experiences with girls early on, molestation, people treating you like you're gay and making you doubt yourself, burning out/boredom with "orinary" sex, etc. Chart the rise in homosexuality with the increased number of broken homes.

Also, I have a cousin who is gay. He met the first condition above and I recall him stating in his adolescent years that he "wanted" to be gay and, surprise, he's now gay.

So, uh, what's your reason? You heard some guy on TV say something once? :thumbsup: