Antifa / far right groups protesting in Portland this afternoon. What'll happen this time?

[Amused]

Then bomb away, my friend. But I still think we are being overly dramatic. I'm not supporting white supremacy or fascism, but I think we are a long, long way from Trump and his loonies doing to America quite what Hitler did to Germany.

And that's not in any way saying we shouldn't guard against it, I just don't think it's time to start dropping Liberator pistols on the freedom fighters stuck behind enemy lines just yet. I still have faith in the democratic process, even the flawed one we have.

But if Trump is voted out of office, and instead of leaving peacefully he enacts martial law and declares himself Grand Pubah for Life, we'll defiantly have to talk again.

Then you are blind to the more than alarming rise of nationalist ideologies in many western countries.

Denialism is what led to Hitler.

The UK and Poland are excellent examples. Australia has a growing nationalist movement too.

The growth has been shocking. Exploding in the last decade. Most countries don't suddenly become fascist. They slide slowly into it. Most elect their first fascist leader. Few, if any are taken by coup.

Maybe you should read a bit about the rise of nationalist ideologies in the west?

And finally, why do we have to fucking wait until a fascist dictator seizes control with popular support???

Are you completely missing the point?

The point is to stop the movement BEFORE it gets there.

If you wait for fascism to be the threat you think it needs to be, it's too fucking late. You've lost your country already.

 

[Paladin3]

Then you are blind to the more than alarming rise of nationalist ideologies in many western countries.

Denialism is what led to Hitler.

The UK and Poland are excellent examples. Australia has a growing nationalist movement too.

The growth has been shocking. Exploding in the last decade. Most countries don't suddenly become fascist. They slide slowly into it. Most elect their first fascist leader. Few, if any are taken by coup.

Maybe you should read a bit about the rise of nationalist ideologies in the west?

And finally, why do we have to fucking wait until a fascist dictator seizes control with popular support???

Are you completely missing the point?

The point is to stop the movement BEFORE it gets there.

If you wait for fascism to be the threat you think it needs to be, it's too fucking late. You've lost your country already.

I live in redneck heaven. I see the "Trump 2020" bumper stickers on the tailgates of the F-150s all day long. I still doubt Trump could declare martial law and end our 243 years of peaceful democratic transition of the presidency without the military, law enforcement and the civilian population overwhelmingly standing up to oppose him.

That's not burying my head in the sand, that's just a fact. Dreaming that Trump could turn himself into a fascist dictator and seize control of America is a joke. The safeguards in place are too strong for that to happen. If the dems can get their shit together we only have another year to put up with him. At the most we have five.

Set an alarm clock and we'll discuss this again in five years.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Asylum seekers are immigrants. Your own fucking ancestors were more than likely asylum seeking migrants with no papers.

Yes. Keep repeating the lie.

Your Hitler in chief just rounded up over 300 legal immigrants and citizens because they were brown.

Yeah.. How fucking dissimilar are we now you fucking potato.

Every time a liberal refers to Trump as Hitler, another one just like me walks away. You TDS'ers are so far gone, indoctrinated evangelicals.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Then you are blind to the more than alarming rise of nationalist ideologies in many western countries.

Denialism is what led to Hitler.

The UK and Poland are excellent examples. Australia has a growing nationalist movement too.

The growth has been shocking. Exploding in the last decade. Most countries don't suddenly become fascist. They slide slowly into it. Most elect their first fascist leader. Few, if any are taken by coup.

Maybe you should read a bit about the rise of nationalist ideologies in the west?

And finally, why do we have to fucking wait until a fascist dictator seizes control with popular support???

Are you completely missing the point?

The point is to stop the movement BEFORE it gets there.

If you wait for fascism to be the threat you think it needs to be, it's too fucking late. You've lost your country already.

There's been sufficient time for people to get a sense of other's positions so I'll ask you this-

What does "The point is to stop the movement BEFORE it gets there" look like in your head? Hypothetically, what should a person (not you per se) to "stop the movement before" look like in it's initial and final forms of action assuming the progression from most to least acceptable in our society?

 

[Greenman]

There's been sufficient time for people to get a sense of other's positions so I'll ask you this-

What does "The point is to stop the movement BEFORE it gets there" look like in your head? Hypothetically, what should a person (not you per se) to "stop the movement before" look like in it's initial and final forms of action assuming the progression from most to least acceptable in our society?

I think we all know the answer to this one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Every time a liberal refers to Trump as Hitler, another one just like me walks away. You TDS'ers are so far gone, indoctrinated evangelicals.

You know I don't think Trump is a Hitler but there are similarities and parallels to the days of Nazi Germany. One such thing is that there would be propaganda spread by people saying to the effect "he's right you know". Not only did they support him in a calculated way, but they also diverted attention from Hitler's actions and policies and point to the Jews as the source of problems to help the Nazi's obtain eventual complete control over his nation.

Today, the main propaganda organs would be Russia/Fox and their ilk/Republican leadership. You would be their minions, the ones on the ground spreading falsehoods like "there was no obstruction" when Mueller wrote there was. The Left for all it's warts are your Jews, the ones you point at as the problem of the nation and indeed you've inspired wannabe bombers who adore Trump as you do and other doers of most politically motivated violence. Naturally, I expect to hear "What about Dayton!!!!!!!!" to which I reply that there was no justification nor mitigation of actions taken by him or anyone other you could name. We don't defend or condone such actions, but the minions keep diverting and lying from their being the side that overwhelmingly causes the most damage. Antifa? If they break the law and damage property or harm people then they ought to pay the penalty in full. Supporters of them? Hardly anyone backs their actions when they do harm even though we agree that the haters of our way of life, the rule of law and the Constitution must be opposed and so we take up against you and yours. We are the ones who prevent the modern era analog of Hitler that you embrace. There are some patriots left and frankly you will never be one.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think we all know the answer to this one.

Let's find out, shall we?

 

[glenn1]

You know I don't think Trump is a Hitler but there are similarities and parallels to the days of Nazi Germany. One such thing is that there would be propaganda spread by people saying to the effect "he's right you know". Not only did they support him in a calculated way, but they also diverted attention from Hitler's actions and policies and point to the Jews as the source of problems to help the Nazi's obtain eventual complete control over his nation.

Trump will be Hitler until the next time a Republican is elected POTUS and then the new POTUS will be Hitler. We went through this same shit (in a less virulent form) with Dubya supposedly being the one who would be dictator for life and stomp boot prints into the faces of the citizenry after refusing to step down and declaring martial law. It's all just pretend concern for the gullible base voters.

 

[Amused]

There's been sufficient time for people to get a sense of other's positions so I'll ask you this-

What does "The point is to stop the movement BEFORE it gets there" look like in your head? Hypothetically, what should a person (not you per se) to "stop the movement before" look like in it's initial and final forms of action assuming the progression from most to least acceptable in our society?

Thank you for asking the obvious question the others refused to ask.

Now. Right fucking now. Make that ideology so socially stigmatized no one dare vocalize it in public without fear of being utterly shunned by everyone. As it stands they are FAR too bold and have FAR too much tolerance in society and that has resulted in their GROWTH.

This is what we HAD been doing for damn near 50 years... Until this false idea that free speech meant the entitlement to a platform and freedom from being shunned and stigmatized. Until the false equivalency that shunning and deplatforming nazis was somehow identical to nazis.

 

[nakedfrog]

Trump will be Hitler until the next time a Republican is elected POTUS and then the new POTUS will be Hitler. We went through this same shit (in a less virulent form) with Dubya supposedly being the one who would be dictator for life and stomp boot prints into the faces of the citizenry after refusing to step down and declaring martial law. It's all just pretend concern for the gullible base voters.

Oh, we're going to pretend it's only Republicans that get it?

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...rs-to-obama-as-de-fuhrer-on-facebook.2346607/
https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/gop-clerk-apologizes-for-black-hitler-posts.230557/

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Thank you for asking the obvious question the others refused to ask.

Now. Right fucking now. Make that ideology so socially stigmatized no one dare vocalize it in public without fear of being utterly shunned by everyone. As it stands they are FAR too bold and have FAR too much tolerance in society and that has resulted in their GROWTH.

This is what we HAD been doing for damn near 50 years... Until this false idea that free speech meant the entitlement to a platform and freedom from being shunned and stigmatized. Until the false equivalency that shunning and deplatforming nazis was somehow identical to nazis.

Thanks back for voicing a clear approach. I'm good with it. Looks like "left-wing terrorism" isn't a wanted result. Too bad for those who hoped for it, but not for the rest of us.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Trump will be Hitler until the next time a Republican is elected POTUS and then the new POTUS will be Hitler. We went through this same shit (in a less virulent form) with Dubya supposedly being the one who would be dictator for life and stomp boot prints into the faces of the citizenry after refusing to step down and declaring martial law. It's all just pretend concern for the gullible base voters.

Trump will be Trump and the parallels exist. If you recall I was deadset against the Iraq War before it happened and hella mad at Trump, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and Co the entire time. I called for an investigation into what happened and neither Dems nor Reps wanted that. It got buried like Trump's actions likely will however egregious, and backed by both side's party loyalists. For the healing of the nation of course.

No sir, I didn't like it.

But

I hammered Bush and his for what they did or did not as the case may be. Likewise, I do the same with Trump. Whatever Bush did he was no modern-day equivalent of Hitler nor IMO sought to be. I cannot say that about the aspirations of Trump and his supporters even if Trump isn't bright enough to understand what he represents.

Bush never joked to my knowledge much less said half-seriously that he should be in office beyond his terms as even he understood there are places one does not dare go, but Trump will.

Bush was a threat, but Trump surpasses that into an existential category based on his unaccountability and ability to break serious law for political reasons, free from fear of consequence. Power and freedom to exercise it beyond all norms? That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[Viper1j]

Are they in some gas chamber? Are their worldly possession taking and now they are forced to work in slave labor camps? I bet next you are going to start talking about the trains... the trains man. I guess you hated Obama and the other leaders of the country as well. Nothing ICE is doing now hasn't happened before enforcing immigration laws. Not religious and ethnic cleansing you keep crying about. Maybe you should remind your friends the Chinese and Russians about that first.

Not yet for the gas..

As for their stuff..

 

[SlowSpyder]

Not yet for the gas..

As for their stuff..

View attachment 9754

You know, deporting someone that is occupying a country illegally isn't the same as taking their personal belongings and sending them to the gas chamber en masse to systematically try and exterminate an entire ethnic group, right?

Hitler ate steak. Trump eats steak! OMG! Proof to liberals Trump IS Hitler reincarnate.

 

[Jhhnn]

STFU, you debased little twerp. You started this thread in slavering anticipation of blood being spilled all over the otherwise peaceful city of Portland, provoked by opportunistic right wing outsiders , didn't you?

Instead, those gutless shits got their instagram moment, then turned tail and ran. But you're still here, stunting and jiving like your side won something. Go fuck yourself.

Some were evacuated via the short bus, an entirely fitting conclusion-

https://pbs.twimg.com/ext_tw_video_...pu/img/jb4BFAWOMk0wHRfI?format=jpg&name=small

 

[Amused]

Thanks back for voicing a clear approach. I'm good with it. Looks like "left-wing terrorism" isn't a wanted result. Too bad for those who hoped for it, but not for the rest of us.

There are some things you dare not say to others for fear of getting shunned, banned, slapped in the face, or worse, the shit kicked out of you in a polite society.

Nazism and white supremacy should be on that list. It used to be.

This:

https://www.thenation.com/article/b...gOasyPE_Hb0XQk60Ixiqeg6JQoxET88MrK3kfJjPSvZYs


White Supremacy Is Terrorism, Not a Difference of Opinion
An Indiana city learns that a weak response to white supremacists has predictable consequences.

 

[SlowSpyder]

There are some things you dare not say to others for fear of getting shunned, banned, slapped in the face, or worse, the shit kicked out of you in a polite society.

Nazism and white supremacy should be on that list. It used to be.

I don't like those things either, but aren't we getting into thought crime area when you think violence is ok if someone agrees with an ideology you don't? Think of the precedence that sets when looking at who has been in charge, ideologies that have come and went and how that changes over history. Not just our country, but the whole world. While I don't care for a white supremacist any more than you do, I think they should be defeated through facts and education, a lot of racism exists due to ignorance. Violence is just taking the lazy way out, you are saying your moral position is so just and righteous that it is alright for you to harm another because they are so wrong and vile in what they stand for, so out of agreement with your almighty opinion and version of morality.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

While I don't care for a white supremacist any more than you do, I think they should be defeated through facts and education, a lot of racism exists due to ignorance.

The people that are white supremacists at this point are willfully ignorant, just like you're displaying here. There reaches a point where you've already dredged out those that can be taught, and removed them from the barrel of 'vile shit humanity has created'. At this point we're scraping the bottom, and those people cannot be educated to understand something they aren't willing to learn.

What's your solution for that when they show up somewhere ready for a fight? Smack 'em with a book?

 

[Amused]

I don't like those things either, but aren't we getting into thought crime area when you think violence is ok if someone agrees with an ideology you don't? Think of the precedence that sets when looking at who has been in charge, ideologies that have come and went and how that changes over history. Not just our country, but the whole world. While I don't care for a white supremacist any more than you do, I think they should be defeated through facts and education, a lot of racism exists due to ignorance. Violence is just taking the lazy way out, you are saying your moral position is so just and righteous that it is alright for you to harm another because they are so wrong and vile, so out of agreement with your almighty opinion and version of morality.

Why yes, equate my disgust with nazis and white supremacy with that of elitism.

Fucking idiot. My dad killed Nazis in WWII and punched them in the face here at home when Rockwell neo-nazis had a brief rise in popularity in the 60s.

I have no problem punching nazis. Nazis ideology is, in itself, a threat to the lives and human rights of others.

It is not "just a different opinion."

If your ideology requires the dehumanization and subjugation of entire groups of people, your ideology is a threat in and of itself.

But according to the new moral relativist here, I should wait until the Nazis gain power and start killing people before I take action.

Fuck. All. Of. That.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The people that are white supremacists at this point are willfully ignorant, just like you're displaying here. There reaches a point where you've already dredged out those that can be taught, and removed them from the barrel of 'vile shit humanity has created'. At this point we're scraping the bottom, and those people cannot be educated to understand something they aren't willing to learn.

What's your solution for that when they show up somewhere ready for a fight? Smack 'em with a book?

If they're thoughts come to actions and they act violently, then they would be responded to in such I'm sure, I get that. I'm just saying I don't think it is ok to punch a white supremacist, or a anarchist, or an islamist, etc. if we're talking about their opinions alone. If they try and create violence, sure, one has to punch back. If you're suggesting that it is ok to harm someone physically because of what they believe, no matter how much you and I may disagree with it, then that is just another example how evangelical leftists see their politics today as a religion. It is ok to harm them because what they believe is so far away from your god and offends your god. And you think the left hasn't gone radically left on the whole in recent years? L O L

 

[SlowSpyder]

Why yes, equate my disgust with nazis and white supremacy with that of elitism.

Fucking idiot. My dad killed Nazis in WWII and punched them in the face here at home when Rockwell neo-nazis had a brief rise in popularity in the 60s.

I have no problem punching nazis. Nazis ideology is, in itself, a threat to the lives and human rights of others.

It is not "just a different opinion."

If your ideology requires the dehumanization and subjugation of entire groups of people, your ideology is a threat in and of itself.

But according to the new moral relativist here, I should wait until the Nazis gain power and start killing people before I take action.

Fuck. All. Of. That.

Not talking about war, talking about physical harm over opinions you don't share. Got it, pleasing your leftist god. Violence is ok because what they stand for disgusts your god of liberalism so much that it is justified. You're just a soldier of god, a NPC.

 

[Amused]

Not talking about war, talking about physical harm over opinions you don't share. Got it, pleasing your leftist god. Violence is ok because what they stand for disgusts your god of liberalism so much that it is justified. You're just a soldier of god, a NPC.

White supremacy and nazism is not an opinion. It is terrorism.

It is an ideology that invariably results in the murder of those your ideology deems inferior.

It is, in point of fact, a threat, not an opinion.

If you step in front of my face and threaten to kill me, I will deck you.

Stepping in front of my face and expressing nazism and white supremacy is exactly the same.

And you want others to believe your racism is "just an opinion." It is not.

BTW, you're too fucking stupid to realize my viewpoint is radically illiberal. It is highly conservative.

Racism is not a conservative value. Kicking the shit out of people who threaten me or others is.

How telling of you to equate opposition of racism and nazism to liberalism. It's almost as if you automatically think anyone who opposes racism is "liberal." Why?

You're everything that is wrong with conservatism today.

My political chart. Tell me how liberal I am:

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

If they're thoughts come to actions and they act violently, then they would be responded to in such I'm sure, I get that. I'm just saying I don't think it is ok to punch a white supremacist, or a anarchist, or an islamist, etc. if we're talking about their opinions alone. If they try and create violence, sure, one has to punch back. If you're suggesting that it is ok to harm someone physically because of what they believe, no matter how much you and I may disagree with it, then that is just another example how evangelical leftists see their politics today as a religion. It is ok to harm them because what they believe is so far away from your god and offends your god. And you think the left hasn't gone radically left on the whole in recent years? L O L

Here's the trouble with your viewpoint. You seem to be under the belief that fascism, white supremacy, or whatever other evil shit mankind comes up with as an excuse to kill each other rises through violence. It doesn't, it rises through long term, sometimes multi-decade slides into acceptability through a continued campaign with the intent to change the groupthink of large percentages of a population, until the idea of doing something horrible seems not-so-horrible. A perfect example is the treatment of immigrants, both legal and illegal in current US society. It's become normalized to demonize them, see them as heinous rapists, job-stealers, lazy, or otherwise ne'er-do-wells which should be punished somehow, doesn't really matter how. As a result, we've had literal children put in cages and while may people care, many others are in favor of even further action, further punishment, further marginalization.

Note, it does not matter who started this, who's team is the big baddy, etc etc. Those are all just distractions. As it is with other products of fascism and supremacists, you glom on a bunch of distractions and points of contentions to at minimum delay how long it is until your shit gets shut down, and ideally to grow your power base enough that you can begin your true work, which is the elimination of those you're trying to marginalize. By the time that day comes, it isn't greeted with gasps of horror, it's greeted with cheers from the 51% of people who think you're in the right.

So as of right now, you're part of the group already cheering, or at least not jeering, the group that's attempting to marginalize a group or groups of people. The people fighting back against that are not fascists, they're fighting back against an enemy of the people. You're on the wrong side of history on this, and history doesn't forget.

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1162935241582841857

Keeping people safe

 

[glenn1]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1162935241582841857

Keeping people safe

Agents of one of the most progressive cities in the nation are busily punching Nazis just as you want.