Antifa / far right groups protesting in Portland this afternoon. What'll happen this time?

[JEDIYoda]

We fought a war against Germany after they declared war against us. There wasn't any "punch a Nazi" going on before then and we basically DGAF. We were content to let the French and rest of the continent get curb stomped and sat back and did nothing.

Again, saying that certain POVs are so inherently dangerous that you need to commit violence to stop them from being expressed is a sign of weakness, not strength. You don't see the right adjusting the "punch a Nazi" slogan to say instead "kill a commie" because they're not afraid of their ideas losing out to Bernie Sanders and other political opposites. You could stand there proclaiming the imminent rapture of the Flying Spagetti Monster and I'm not going to promote violence against you because I know you're a damn kook. If you truly believed in the superiority of your worldview you'd be fine allowing Nazis or whoever else to say whatever the hell they want.

That is not true@! do some research before opening your mouth!!

 

[UglyCasanova]

Islam can and has, for the most part, existed in peace and respected human rights.

Lol. Makes women cover every inch of themselves, beats them, marries 10 year olds, if a woman gets raped she gets stoned to death, female genitalia mutilation. Etc. So yeah go tell women and gays through the Middle East about their human rights. Does every practicer of Islam do this? No. Does every member of the alt right kill people? No.

But with your moral superiority let’s go violently attack them because all of them are bad which makes me the (violent) good guy.

 

[glenn1]

If both groups are so bad, then why the constant need to distract the attention away from the white supremacists? Why all this focus on antifa and not the guys who want to actually kill people?

One can oppose white supremacists yet still hold that proactively punching them is bad despite them having detestable views. Your side is the one cheering on punishing people for thoughtcrime and using violence to do so.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Atfifa is responding to Nazi activists showing up armored, armed and ready to fight.

Who the fuck do you think is expressing an ideology of violence, hate and murder?

You're too fucking stupid to realize that antifa is simply using the Nazi's tactics against them.

And good for them.

You cannot be a Nazi and demand civil discourse. There is NOTHING civil about Nazi ideology.

And finally, Antifa has committed NO acts of Terrorism. It is the White supremacists they actively oppose who are responsible for the vast majority of domestic terrorism since 2001.

And you still think Antifa is "just as bad" or worse.

You nazis are so transparent.

Point of personal privilege, comrade: How is blocking traffic using Nazi tactics against them? How is demanding more from the government using Nazi tactics against them?

 

[Vic]

One can oppose white supremacists yet still hold that proactively punching them is bad despite them having detestable views. Your side is the one cheering on punishing people for thoughtcrime and using violence to do so.

My side? I have repeatedly condemned both sides here. I wonder why you're ignoring that? And you're ignoring the fact that the white supremacists punch people too.. but I guess that's ok, right?

 

[glenn1]

My side? I have repeatedly condemned both sides here. I wonder why you're ignoring that? And the fact that the white supremacists punch people too.. but I guess that's ok, right?

Nope it's not OK, punchers should be vigorously prosecuted no matter what their political or other views are. We react to peoples' actions that adversely impact others, not simply holding a belief. Doesn't matter if you're a Nazi, Marxist, Earth Liberation Front, Branch Davidian, whatever. You have the right to hold whatever stupid belief you want without having society advocate that you should be physically assaulted for that belief.

 

[Jaskalas]

IMO, calling a Jew a Zionist is calling them an Israeli patriot.

And racist Republicans frightened about Obama becoming President meant it as a compliment when they called him a "community organizer."

Watch out, old dawg. They're gonna put you down if you don't hear the whistle.

Zionist maybe, but that is how anti-Israel groups address Israel and its nationalism / land grab. Right, Left, and Muslim alike.
But community organizer??? No kidding it is no compliment. But racist whistle? The !@#$? It's a derogative against a man's action(s).

 

[Vic]

Nope it's not OK, punchers should be vigorously prosecuted no matter what their political or other views are. We react to peoples' actions that adversely impact others, not simply holding a belief. Doesn't matter if you're a Nazi, Marxist, Earth Liberation Front, Branch Davidian, whatever. You have the right to hold whatever stupid belief you want without having society advocate that you should be physically assaulted for that belief.

Which is why you said 'your side' to me and have only condemned one side here, right? Even though both of these sides here, antifa and Proud Boys, are violent to others with different views?

 

[Jaskalas]

Thank you for asking the obvious question the others refused to ask.

Now. Right fucking now. Make that ideology so socially stigmatized no one dare vocalize it in public without fear of being utterly shunned by everyone.

Everyone? Man I !@#$ing wish.

Without Republicans opposing Trump, and I mean directly opposing, all you have are Democrats "attacking" Trump. "Attacking" Republicans. Polarization stemming from partisanship will not win you the destination you seek. The same general idea is how Muslims would react if we socially stigmatized them as terrorists, or responsible for the action(s) of terrorists that they failed to stop. Does that bring them closer to us, or isolate and push them further towards extremism? We know the answer for Muslims is not to follow your proposal with a heavy hand. Nor is it a good idea with Republicans.

Perhaps you think we can more directly pinpoint our target(s) to "fascists", but the Republican machine will work overtime to make sure every one of them feels threatened and afraid of your assault upon "them". Nuances are completely lost when crossing the secular divide. It would take a very concentrated and learned effort, boosted by inside knowledge from their camp, to tailor a message that can separate fact from fiction. And it is mankind's fiction driven mind that is slowly killing us.

 

[Luna1968]

Oh wow. You reached deep into the pit if your little Nazi ass for this one, didn't you?

False equivalencies will not make being a Nazi acceptable. Islam can and has, for the most part, existed in peace and respected human rights. Like a typical bigot you confuse local cultural practices and extremists with an entire religion.

Nazism is solely the belief in racial superiority and the elimination of lessor races.

Keep dancing.

man it sounds like you are bat shit crazy. who exactly are the Nazi's? and who is wanting to eliminate "lesser races" from my prospective all i see are black garbed soy boys burning the american flag while proudly waving the hammer and sickle of communist Russia. do you not see that?

 

[glenn1]

Which is why you said 'your side' to me and have only condemned one side here, right? Even though both of these sides here, antifa and Proud Boys, are violent to others with different views?

Idiots like Proud Boys and Antifa are looking to start fights and will commit violence at the drop of a hat and there's little we can do about it except for have police presence there and ready to break things up quickly. My concern is that only one side not directly connected to the idiots seems to be egging on their violence with "punch a Nazi" and similar statements. If you think anyone's thoughts including Nazis are so dangerous you need to punch them in some misguided effort to prevent those thoughts then yes, you are just as bad as the Nazis.

 

[Jaskalas]

Which is why you said 'your side' to me and have only condemned one side here, right? Even though both of these sides here, antifa and Proud Boys, are violent to others with different views?

Perhaps he said it because "your side" is all gun-ho showing up armed to counter protest and incite violence between the sides. To "save people from ovens". And there are posts here supporting just that. So he feels the need to address THAT overt support for violence. By contrast, has anyone supported Nazis by saying they should protest armed, or harm people?

Pretty much, everyone is talking PAST each other to attack "others" under their own terms of what has / is occurring. All meaning to this topic is lost in translation between secular sides. Many are arguing apples / oranges while pretending it's all apples.

If we say the conflict and violence should stop escalating. Let me guess... you would counter by saying the "Nazis" should be stopped, must be stopped?
That is WHY.

 

[glenn1]

Perhaps he said it because "your side" is all gun-ho showing up armed to counter protest and incite violence between the sides. To "save people from ovens". And there are posts here supporting just that. So he feels the need to address THAT overt support for violence. By contrast, has anyone supported Nazis by saying they should protest armed, or harm people?

Pretty much, everyone is talking PAST each other to attack "others" under their own terms of what has / is occurring. All meaning to this topic is lost in translation between secular sides. Many are arguing apples / oranges while pretending it's all apples.

If we say the conflict and violence should stop escalating. Let me guess... you would counter by saying the "Nazis" should be stopped, must be stopped?
That is WHY.

Let me proactively address something here that is likely to come up otherwise. Namely that our current POTUS is being extremely unhelpful at best and actively harmful at worst when he addresses events like the "Unite the Right" or other events where the neo-Nazi types march. We'll be much better off when the next POTUS can simply condemn the Nazis without caveats like "good people on both sides" and hopefully not go too far to the other side where s/he starts copying the "punch a Nazi" crap.

 

[Vic]

Perhaps he said it because "your side" is all gun-ho showing up armed to counter protest and incite violence between the sides. To "save people from ovens". And there are posts here supporting just that. So he feels the need to address THAT overt support for violence. By contrast, has anyone supported Nazis by saying they should protest armed, or harm people?

Pretty much, everyone is talking PAST each other to attack "others" under their own terms of what has / is occurring. All meaning to this topic is lost in translation between secular sides. Many are arguing apples / oranges while pretending it's all apples.

If we say the conflict and violence should stop escalating. Let me guess... you would counter by saying the "Nazis" should be stopped, must be stopped?
That is WHY.

Which side organized this rally again? Which side received the implicit backing of the President?
You can still be both sides while observing that both sides are not equal. Such as, in this case, that antifa is the reaction, not the cause. There seems to be a great deal of willful ignoring of that fact.

 

[Jaskalas]

Which side organized this rally again? Which side received the implicit backing of the President?
You can still be both sides while observing that both sides are not equal. Such as, in this case, that antifa is the reaction, not the cause. There seems to be a great deal of willful ignoring of that fact.

That sounds like it should be filed under saying they "should/must be stopped".

I must be crazy for thinking that is a job for law enforcement, and not vigilantes.

What is it, about our current situation, that has you supporting lawlessness and or escalation as a response?

 

[Vic]

That sounds like it should be filed under saying they "should/must be stopped".

I must be crazy for thinking that is a job for law enforcement, and not vigilantes.

What is it, about our current situation, that has you supporting lawlessness and or escalation as a response?

I have not supported lawlessness or vigilantism. In fact, I have condemned antifa and their tactics repeatedly here.
How about you re-read the thread, and then get back to me with an apology?

 

[dainthomas]

Lol. Makes women cover every inch of themselves, beats them, marries 10 year olds, if a woman gets raped she gets stoned to death, female genitalia mutilation. Etc. So yeah go tell women and gays through the Middle East about their human rights. Does every practicer of Islam do this? No. Does every member of the alt right kill people? No.

But with your moral superiority let’s go violently attack them because all of them are bad which makes me the (violent) good guy.

And Christian Georgia wants to throw women in prison for having miscarriages. Fundamentalist anything is crazy and should have nothing to do with our laws.

 

[Jhhnn]

Which side organized this rally again? Which side received the implicit backing of the President?
You can still be both sides while observing that both sides are not equal. Such as, in this case, that antifa is the reaction, not the cause. There seems to be a great deal of willful ignoring of that fact.

There you go again, getting all logical & shit. It's like Saturday night at a country western bar. If you go there to get in a fight, you'll probably be able to find one.

 

[UglyCasanova]

And Christian Georgia wants to throw women in prison for having miscarriages. Fundamentalist anything is crazy and should have nothing to do with our laws.

I mean I’m not disagreeing with you but that’s not really the point. If we decide it’s ok to take on vigilante justice toward any group we don’t like or thinking is harming others then there’s going to be a whole lotta punching random people going on.

 

[Jhhnn]

And Christian Georgia wants to throw women in prison for having miscarriages. Fundamentalist anything is crazy and should have nothing to do with our laws.

Don't fall for the diversion. Proto-fascists love Trump, and he loves them right back.

 

[Jaskalas]

I have not supported lawlessness or vigilantism. In fact, I have condemned antifa and their tactics repeatedly here.
How about you re-read the thread, and then get back to me with an apology?

Sorry Vic, I apologize for misstating your position.

Reading through it as I have will not help me remember later, at the time of posting, who specifically endorses "punch a Nazi", counter protests, and escalation derived from the "need" to "stop people from being tossed in ovens". I apologize as a quick review of your posts indicates, as you said, that you are no fan of these conflicts.

Kudos for not being part of the problem, but it would behoove us all to condemn escalation from either "side". Rather than fixating on one or the other. There are some absolute hysterics in this thread about ovens. I wonder, do you endorse my suggestion that "Proud Boys" are a law enforcement problem? As long as neither of us endorses escalation of said conflict, then aside from all this misunderstanding we do appear to be in agreement?

 

[glenn1]

Don't fall for the diversion. Proto-fascists love Trump, and he loves them right back.

This is bigger than Trump and both preceded him and will follow him long after. We don't tolerate punching people because of what they think even if it's something like Nazism or racial cleansing. Because otherwise anyone has the societal permission to punch anyone whose beliefs they think are "dangerous." Atheists could punch Catholics and vice-versa, pro-lifers punch pro-choicers and vice versa, libertarians punch communists and vice versa, basically anyone would be fair game.

 

[Amused]

This is bigger than Trump and both preceded him and will follow him long after. We don't tolerate punching people because of what they think even if it's something like Nazism or racial cleansing. Because otherwise anyone has the societal permission to punch anyone whose beliefs they think are "dangerous." Atheists could punch Catholics and vice-versa, pro-lifers punch pro-choicers and vice versa, libertarians punch communists and vice versa, basically anyone would be fair game.

Absolutely (wink wink). It should absolutely remain illegal to punch nazis (wink wink). We'll keep that law on the books so you feel safe. (nudge nudge)

Meanwhile, we will do everything else to make your lives living hells. Social shunning, doxing, banning, deplatforming, boycotting you and/or advertisers until you go out of business and constant protesting of your home, rallies and workplaces.

Be a Nazi/white supremacist, and have your life laid bare and exposed so everyone can shun and ban you.

Because the free market works.

 

[glenn1]

Absolutely (wink wink). It should absolutely remain illegal to punch nazis (wink wink). We'll keep that law on the books so you feel safe. (nudge nudge)

Meanwhile, we will do everything else to make your lives living hells. Social shunning, doxing, banning, deplatforming, boycotting you and/or advertisers until you go out of business and constant protesting of your home, rallies and workplaces.

Be a Nazi/white supremacist, and have your life laid bare and exposed so everyone can shun and ban you.

Because the free market works.

Do you think you're cute "wink winking" at violence because of thoughts? Someone like you is much more likely to be the victim if that's the standard. Nazis are idiots and if you want to shun them, boycott, whatever have at it. But the last thing we want is the U.S. and west turning into Rwanda with tribal violence tolerated and encouraged and Nazis hacking Antifa to death with machetes or vice versa and whatnot that your "punch a Nazi" stupidity would inevitably lead to.

 

[Amused]

Do you think you're cute "wink winking" at violence because of thoughts? Someone like you is much more likely to be the victim if that's the standard. Nazis are idiots and if you want to shun them, boycott, whatever have at it. But the last thing we want is the U.S. and west turning into Rwanda with tribal violence tolerated and encouraged and Nazis hacking Antifa to death with machetes or vice versa and whatnot that your "punch a Nazi" stupidity would inevitably lead to.

Sure. Totally. Just know, being a Nazi or having any association with white supremacy will become an increasing nightmare. Any association with these ideologies will, increasingly, be considered terrorism and a direct threat to national security, not to mention the lives of billions of non-whites.

The social shunning will be near complete, as it's already becoming now. The deplatforming has already happened and look at how all of you cry out in pain at the loss of white supremacy platforms as the free market rejects you.

Once Trump is outta office, it's back into the incel closet for the white powder puffs.