antialiasing questions

[Gstanfor]

I have never made any claim

that some kind of fictional ordered grid is being used

.

When T:SSAA is in effect, providing AA to an alpha texture, the sampling pattern will be ordered grid. Everywhere else it will be rotated grid (MSAA) or ordered grid (SSAA and older AA modes that are leftovers from GF:FX and GF3/4). End of story.

You claimed super-sample TrAA can't do rotated grid SSAA and then you point me to the section for multi-sample TrAA to prove you're right?

Because it explained an MSAA limitation you clown! That limitation applies regardless of whether T:AA of any kind is in effect or not and regardless of the hardware generating the MSAA...

 

[BFG10K]

When T:SSAA is in effect, providing AA to an alpha texture, the sampling pattern will be ordered grid.

False
False
False
False
False
False
False
False

Did you get that? Or would you like me to post it again?

That's an alpha texture you see being sampled so it's the actual pattern SS TrAA uses.

Even if you randomly click on the screen somewhere you should be able to bring up the picture.

If even random clicking is too difficult for you then you have issues that extend well beyond not understanding what TrAA is.

End of story.

Story is right, namely yours.

Because it explained an MSAA limitation you clown!

But we aren't talking about pure MSAA, we are talking about the super-sampling component of TrAA so you trumpeting on about how pure MSAA can't affect alpha textures is more useless and irrelevant rhetoric.

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

What type of supersampling does TRSS use?

Rotated grid.

This is what we are talking about BFG10K, and you are flat out wrong!!!

Abusing me and trying to twist my words won't make you right and neither will your AA test app.

 

[BFG10K]

The app says you're wrong so please provide evidence that there's a problem with the application.

Once you've done that we'll proceed.

Until you do I can only assume that any further posts of yours are simply trolls with a "get in the last word no matter what" attitude.

 

[Gstanfor]

It's no use asking me about the test app, you need to ask xmas on b3d. He's the one who wrote it.

You cannot do rotated grid supersampling on current nvidia hardware. If you don't believe my go find Rollo on geforce3d and get him to ask a nvidia engineer for you - I'm sure he'd be delighted to cooperate just to see you fall flat on your face...

 

[Gstanfor]

Tell me, are you using a sample with alpha textures in that test app? If you aren't the results are meaningless, since T:AA only works on alpha textures...

 

[BFG10K]

It's no use asking me about the test app, you need to ask xmas on b3d. He's the one who wrote it.

If you know nothing about the app then you are in no position to claim it doesn't work.

If you don't believe my go find Rollo on geforce3d and get him to ask a nvidia engineer for you

The same engineer that told us it was impossible to get TrAA working on the GeForce 6 series?

You cannot do rotated grid supersampling on current nvidia hardware.

So in addition to claiming the application is wrong you're claiming nVidia is wrong also?

You have zero credibility left so maybe you should stop before it goes into the negative zone.

 

[Gstanfor]

I'm not talking about SLI antialiasing and I suspect neither were you until desperation hit...

Once again, I consider SLI AA to be pointless.

If I knew nothing about the app, I wouldn't be able to tell you who the author was, would I? But don't let that stop you from twisting my words....

 

[BFG10K]

Tell me, are you using a sample with alpha textures in that test app?

Of course; in fact it's a new version of the app specifically designed to use an alpha texture as the old version couldn't show TrAA/AAA.

Here is the pattern for regular 4xMSAA.

It's clear that only one texture sample is being taken when TrAA is disabled, exactly as we would expect.

 

[BFG10K]

I'm not talking about SLI antialiasing

You stated:

You cannot do rotated grid supersampling on current nvidia hardware.

It's irrelevant whether you were discussing SLI AA or not; SLI AA is yet another example of how wrong you are.

Once again, I consider SLI AA to be pointless.

Totally and utterly irrelevant to your claim:

You cannot do rotated grid supersampling on current nvidia hardware.

 

[Gstanfor]

SLI is irrelevant to anyone without SLI. Heck it's pretty much irrelevant to those of us with SLI.

It's a software based AA solution, not hardware.

EDIT: when I discuss nvidia hardware, unless I specifically mention SLI I'm talking about a single GPU on a single card.

The fact you are trying to trip me up over this shows just how desperate you are.

Tell me, how much does SLI AA help your single 7900GTX BFG10K?

 

[BFG10K]

Click.

We?ve also had confirmation that the sampling pattern used on the transparent textures is the same as that of the polygon edge sampling patterns of the base MSAA mode in operation.

End of discussion.

If you wish to continue with your fictional theories you will be doing it on your own.

 

[Gstanfor]

Confirmation from who? Santa Claus?

Once again, MSAA doesn't work for transparency so you can't get any base samples in the first place...

EDIT: You ought to know better than to wave anything Baumann claims under my nose in the first place...

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: Gstanfor

EDIT: You ought to know better than to wave anything Baumann claims under my nose in the first place...

Looks like Geo's claims from your sig are spot on.

 

[BFG10K]

SLI is irrelevant to anyone without SLI.

Irrelevant.

Heck it's pretty much irrelevant to those of us with SLI.

Irrelevant.

Not only that but there are several good reasons to use SLI AA over the regular xS modes but I wouldn't expect you to know anything about that.

Tell me, how much does SLI AA help your single 7900GTX BFG10K?

Irrelevant.

It's a software based AA solution, not hardware.

:roll:

Confirmation from who? Santa Claus?

Even Santa Claus has more credibility on the subject than you do.

EDIT: You ought to know better than to wave anything Baumann claims under my nose in the first place...

If there's an issue between you two then that's something you have to deal with.

Once again, MSAA doesn't work for transparency so you can't get any base samples in the first place...

Un...be...lieve...able.

It's like trying to reason with a bag of cement.

 

[SonicIce]

hey could u guys explain what is going on, or try to answer my question?

 

[BFG10K]

Your question has already been answered a thousand times over: rotated grid SSAA.

I wouldn't recommend you listen to Gstanfor. Remember, this is the same guy that claimed you couldn't do FP 16 HDR on ATi R5xx cards and then claimed you couldn't combine AA with it even when Chuck's developer notes were quoted and plastered right in front of him.

Basically he spends his days making up total nonsense and tries to pass himself as some kind of "expert".

 

[SonicIce]

i though SS was an image rendered at a higher resolution then scaled down. if this is true i just wanted to know what its scaled down from. like 2x2 or something. maybe i dont understand it right.

 

[dug777]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersampling

http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/10,72.html

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1028947

 

[BFG10K]

i though SS was an image rendered at a higher resolution then scaled down

I can be but not always. Super-sampling at its core simply takes texture samples (rather than geometry samples for MSAA).

Rendering to a higher resolution is one way to get the samples but there are others like jittering the same data multiple times and combining the different samples together.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Your question has already been answered a thousand times over: rotated grid SSAA.

I wouldn't recommend you listen to Gstanfor. Remember, this is the same guy that claimed you couldn't do FP 16 HDR on ATi R5xx cards and then claimed you couldn't combine AA with it even when Chuck's developer notes were quoted and plastered right in front of him.

Basically he spends his days making up total nonsense and tries to pass himself as some kind of "expert".

Don't forget he trying telling us that Nvidia could do HDR+AA long after it was know that they couldn't do it.

 

[Bull Dog]

This is a good thread. :thumbsup: Thats some excellent asskicking there BFG10K

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

i though SS was an image rendered at a higher resolution then scaled down

I can be but not always. Super-sampling at its core simply takes texture samples (rather than geometry samples for MSAA).

Rendering to a higher resolution is one way to get the samples but there are others like jittering the same data multiple times and combining the different samples together.

[/quote][/quote]


Are you still dribbling sh!t in this thread?!

On GeForce 7800 GTX, NVIDIA has exposed a Supersample renderstate allowing individual primitives to be supersampled (in combination with a multisampled backbuffer). This is especially effective for textures with hard edges like a chain link fence or lattice work. Transparency supersampling provides optimal flexibility: because transparency supersampling can be controlled on a per-primitive basis, you get the advantage of extremely high quality supersampling for alpha-tested textures but you can avoid this cost for other geometry.

nvidia does do data jittering via the shaders ... in the the MSAA version of their T:AA, NOT their SSAA version!

 

[BFG10K]

Don't forget he trying telling us that Nvidia could do HDR+AA long after it was know that they couldn't do it.

That's not the half of it.

Remember when he claimed a new nVidia driver had better IQ by showing us 3DMark shots with the old driver not having a particular light and the new one having it?

I guess some people can't understand the simple concept that a flashing light is not constant. Instead he was trying to tell us it was the new driver "producing" the light in the second shot and hence it "increased IQ". :roll:

It's simply not possible to argue with an individual that thinks like that. Normal logic and reasoning just escapes him.

nvidia does do data jittering via the shaders ... in the the MSAA version of their T:AA, NOT their SSAA version!

I don't know if you do this on purpose or whether you simply can't help yourself but in any case it's hopeless to even respond to you.

I'm still waiting for your evidence that the app tester is wrong (and no, "ask the guy that made it" is not evidence).

I'm also still waiting for you demonstrate that the evidence from the B3D thread comes from Santa Clause (and no, "I don't like Baumann" is not evidence").

 

[josh6079]

I'm also still waiting for you demonstrate that the evidence from the B3D thread comes from Santa Clause (and no, "I don't like Baumann" is not evidence").

He'll just tell you to go search for it yourself.