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ANTI-KERRY AD A HIT

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Originally posted by: heartsurgeonLook within your heart for the answer to this question..the answer lays there.
Better yet, look for some documentation. Here's an archived story from U.S. News & World Report. You can read the whole story by entering a bogus email address.
A Mission to Cambodia

by Kevin Whitelaw | May 08 '00

Sen. John Kerry made his first forays into Cambodia during the Vietnam War as a Navy lieutenant on clandestine missions to deliver weapons to anticommunist forces. When he returned last week, the mission was official, but dicey nonetheless. At the request of the United Nations, Kerry is trying to broker a compromise on how to try leaders of the former Khmer Rouge regime, whose late 1970s reign of terror claimed the lives of some 1.7 million Cambodians.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen wants to control any court looking into genocide charges, but U.S. and U.N. officials have demanded an international tribunal. "You can't have a situation where a justice system that many people view as inoperative will have the ability to trump the international community's consensus," says Kerry. Kerry is offering a compromise to allow for co-prosecutors and co-investigators. Both Cambodian and foreign judges would have to agree before an indictment could be thrown out. Hun Sen had initially accepted the proposal but ran into hard-line opposition from his political allies. Kerry anticipates a deal could be struck as early as this week.

Still, the parliament needs to go along, and many members of the ruling party (including Hun Sen) held low- or mid-level posts in the Khmer Rouge regime and might be reluctant to sign on. A legislative debate has been delayed until late May, ostensibly because of a termite infestation of the parliament building.

Copyright © U.S. News & World Report, L.P. All rights reserved.
And since you and Rip keep posting the same lies in multiple threads, I'll repost the same link and quote I used to respond to your same lie in another thread to this 1992 Associated Press story about Kerry's testimony about U.S. POW's left behind in Indochina:
Copyright, 1992. The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

By JOHN DIAMOND

Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Navy Lt. John Kerry knew he had no business steering his Mekong River patrol boat across the border into Cambodia, but orders were orders.

A quarter-century later, Sen. John Kerry says newly declassified documents have convinced him fellow servicemen captured on such trips were left behind at war's end.

Kerry, D-Mass., announced this week at hearings of the Senate Select Committee on POW-MIA Affairs he chairs that as many as 133 U.S. servicemen may have been left behind, either as unrecorded fatalities or prisoners of war, when the Vietnam War ended in 1973.

This conclusion that the government failed to account for all its soldiers, sailors and fliers did not come easily for the 48-year-old senator. Through two decades of political activism since he returned from Vietnam, first as an opponent of the war, then as a lawmaker, Kerry has remained studiously neutral
on the POW-MIA question.

Veterans groups and researchers of varying credibility raised allegations and published photographs suggesting that Americans might still be languishing in Southeast Asian stalags. Bereaved family members pleaded with lawmakers to rescue loved ones they were convinced were still alive. Kerry said only that
there was evidence that needed to be explored.

"I've always said there's evidence. But I'm not going to draw any conclusions about this until we do a sound, sensible job," Kerry said in an interview. "This conclusion was drawn from documents which no one saw 10 years ago."

But for Kerry, who spent six violent months commanding a patrol boat on the Mekong River, there's always been a ring of truth to allegations of abandoned Americans. By Christmas 1968, part of Kerry's patrol extended across the border of South Vietnam into Cambodia.

"We were told, `Just go up there and do your patrol. Everybody was over there (in Cambodia). Nobody thought twice about it," Kerry said. One of the missions, which Kerry, at the time, was ordered not to discuss, involved taking CIA operatives into Cambodia to search for enemy enclaves.


"I can remember wondering, `If you're going to go, what happens to you,"' Kerry said.

Kerry was wounded three times, received three Purple Hearts, the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. After his Navy tour ended in 1969, Kerry co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

Declassified documents released at the hearings show that the government altered its intelligence information to hide the fate of U.S. pilots and soldiers downed in secret missions to Cambodia and Laos during the war. The concealment extended to listing a casualty as "killed in action, body not recovered," when, in fact, the remains had been found.

"What I'm saying is that when the government announced all the POWs are home and when the government said the MIAs are dead, that was not true," Kerry said. "There was a list of people that we had evidence of being captives whom we should have accounted for then, not 20 years later."

Some of the missions were routine cross-border actions, not sanctioned as part of the official U.S. war effort. Others were "black ops," secret operations far into Laotian and Cambodian territory.

Historian Stanley Karnow, author of "Vietnam: A History," said in a telephone interview that secret ground and air raids into Laos and Cambodia continued throughout the Vietnam War in violation of treaties. Cambodian air raids intensified under President Nixon beginning in 1969, leading up to the U.S. invasion of Cambodia in April 1970, Karnow said.


The military's falsification of records created a lasting problem in sorting out the killed, captured and unknown.

"The lists are so screwed up frankly that it's very hard to patch it together," Kerry said.

Kerry emphasizes that he has no evidence that any U.S. serviceman remains alive in captivity in Southeast Asia. Nor does he speak of any Rambo-like rescue mission. Rather, the next step is a methodical and continuing unfolding of the facts.

"It's not a good story but it's important that we understand it and it's important that we put the conspiracy theories behind us if we can," Kerry said. "But we're not there yet."
Whether Kerry, himself, was "in" Cambodia or just "in waters near the Cambodian border" means nothing. From his boat, he may not even have known for sure which side of the border he was actually on, and his own superiors may not have been free to tell him. They were clandestine operations so there probably isn't a lot of documentation on them. Unless you have hard evidence to the contrary, maybe you should STFU! :|
 
The latest Swift Boat Vet ad, a 30-second spot released Friday, uses segments from Kerry's testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 1971. In the ad, Kerry says, "They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads," "randomly shot at civilians," and "razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Kahn."

Of course, as to not let the whole truth be considered, the ad does not include Kerry's preface, in which he said he is reporting what others said at a Vietnam veterans conference. Instead, a swift boat group member refers to the statements as "accusations" Kerry made against Vietnam veterans.

An official transcript shows Kerry was referring to a meeting in Detroit, Michigan, that was part of what was called the Winter Soldier investigation.


Also Saturday, two former comrades of Kerry backed up the candidate's account of the events that earned him his Silver Star.

William Rood, an editor at the Chicago Tribune, writes in Sunday's editions: "Kerry's critics, armed with stories I know to be untrue, have charged that the accounts of what happened [in 1969] were overblown. The critics have taken pains to say they're not trying to cast doubts on the merit of what others did, but their version of events has splashed doubt on all of us."

Like Kerry, Rood was a lieutenant junior grade and skipper of one of the three boats ambushed twice while on patrol February 28, 1969. Kerry was awarded the Silver Star, the Navy's third-highest combat decoration, for his aggressive response to the ambushes.

Rood won a Bronze Star for his actions in the same clash, and writes that criticism of Kerry " impugns others who are not in the public eye."

He says, "It's gotten harder and harder for those of us who were there to listen to accounts we know to be untrue, especially when they come from people who were not there."

John O'Neill, who wrote a book challenging Kerry's accounts of his service, said Saturday that SBVT was not challenging Rood's commendation.

Rood says in the first-person article that Kerry asked him to publicly discuss his account of that mission.

Rood writes that Kerry was in charge of the mission and discussed with the other two skippers how to handle the inevitable ambushes.

"We agreed that if we were not crippled by the initial volley and had a clear fix on the location of the ambush," he writes, "we would turn directly into it, focusing the boats' twin .50-caliber machine guns on the attackers and beaching the boats."

Twice on that day Kerry ordered such a maneuver, according to Rood. Each time the ambushes were quelled.

O'Neill's book said Kerry shot a fleeing Vietnamese teenager to win the award.

Rood disputes that, saying he checked with another sailor on that mission and they agreed that "he was a grown man, dressed in the kind of garb the [Viet Cong] usually wore."

Wayne Langhofer, who now works at a gunpowder plant in Kansas, said he also was present for the battle.

"I was with Kerry when he won his Silver Star, and as far as I'm concerned, he did right," he told CNN on Saturday.
 
Originally posted by: Hossenfeffer
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Ok looking right now. Well after looking I can tell you without any hesitastion that I definately won't be voting for that disingenuous bastard in the Oval Office who misled the American Public into supporting his ill advised excellent adventure into Iraq.
That only leaves one viable choice and that's Kerry
Gee, i thought you were an "undecided moderate"

Didn't you say goodbye already?
Yes, he did. We all threw a party and everything. (and consoled CAD 😉 )
 
Originally posted by: Gaard
Originally posted by: Hossenfeffer
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Ok looking right now. Well after looking I can tell you without any hesitastion that I definately won't be voting for that disingenuous bastard in the Oval Office who misled the American Public into supporting his ill advised excellent adventure into Iraq.
That only leaves one viable choice and that's Kerry
Gee, i thought you were an "undecided moderate"

Didn't you say goodbye already?
Yes, he did. We all threw a party and everything. (and consoled CAD 😉 )

If Sen Kerry had done the same thing, then returned, he'd be a LIAR!!! WHY IS IT YOU BUSH HATERS CAN'T ACKNOWLEDGE HE LIED???
 
They were clandestine operations so there probably isn't a lot of documentation
HAHAHAH reminds me of the "foreign leaders" who want hiim to become President, but shall remain nameless..

classic Kerry!

and as for "documentation" what he said was "true", all the article you quote mentions is Kerry's own fantastical story that he's claimed for years...seared into his memory..he was in Cambodia, at Christman 1968, under orders from President Nixon...except Nixon wasn't President..

minor detaill

by the way, i'm flattered that you believe i am
Serious
Thoughtful
Fair
Unbias
 
Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
and as for "documentation" what he said was "true", all the article you quote mentions is Kerry's own fantastical story that he's claimed for years...seared into his memory..he was in Cambodia, at Christman 1968, under orders from President Nixon...except Nixon wasn't President..

minor detaill
Mis-stating which President was in office in recounting a story is small crap, but since you keep posting the same sh8 in multiple threads, all I have to do is cut and paste from my replies from those threads. You're worried that Kerry mis-spoke and named Nixon, instead of Johnson, but you posted:
HAHAHA most liberals think Vietnam was "Nixon's War". What a joke, Vietnam was escalated into a war by Kennedy (Teddy's bro)...
I replied:
John Kennedy??? :shocked: The Tonkin Gulf Resolution was passed in 1964, at which time, sadly, JFK was far too dead to lead anyone into Viet Nam. 🙁 If he had lived, we may never have gone to war in Viet Nam.
Buahahaha! Classic heartsurgeon! :laugh: Looks like Kerry's not the only one with an historical memory lapse, but that's just a minor detail. :Q If you really want to stretch history and blame some Democrats, maybe you can go way back and blame Viet Nam on the Truman administration. 😛

If you had any documentation at all to disprove anything Kerry has said, you would have posted it by now. Since it appears you don't, you can live in your fantasy about the meaning, but once again, it's time to STFU. :|
 
Here's a dead accurate quote from Bill Kristol:

"More than any presidential candidate since George McGovern, John Kerry is a creature of the anti-Vietnam war movement. His entire public career makes clear that he was and is--and I use this term descriptively, not pejoratively--a McGovernite. The difference is that George McGovern acknowledged this. John Kerry doesn't.

Another difference is that McGovern had the decency not to tout his war medals. Nor did McGovern claim to be "reporting to duty" when he made his case for the presidency. By indulging in that gesture, Kerry turned a spotlight on his Vietnam-era actions and invited scrutiny he may come to regret. Kerry's attempt now to suppress this debate will not work. In effect, and without intending it, Kerry invited his fellow veterans to "bring it on." So they have."
 
A photograph of John Kerry with 19 other Coastal Division 11 Swift boat officers is featured in a new Kerry campaign ad called Lifetime. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth contacted surviving members of this group to find out how many actually support Kerry. Only 1 did!!!!!

Link
 
Originally posted by: Gaard
Aww shoot. I'm getting tired of discussing these candidates service records. How 'bout you Rip? 😉

We could talk about Kerry's undistinguished senate career and his voting record which puts him to the left of Teddy Kennedy, but what fun would that be.

And Kerry's not running on his senate record anyway.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Gaard
Aww shoot. I'm getting tired of discussing these candidates service records. How 'bout you Rip? 😉

We could talk about Kerry's undistinguished senate career and his voting record which puts him to the left of Teddy Kennedy, but what fun would that be.
Obviously he did a good job represeting those who are his constituents. As president he would have to be a lot more Moderate if he wants to get anything done. As with Clinton Kerry probably would be able to adjust. On the other hand it seems that the Dub hasn't been able to adjust which has caused this nation to become as polarized as it was during the turbulent 60's. Obviously he hasn't led very well, even some of those who intially believed him and supported him immediately following 9/11 and the justified retaliation against Al Qaeda and the Taliban now feel betrayed by his ill conceived invasion and occupation of Iraq which was based on false reasoning!
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Gaard
Aww shoot. I'm getting tired of discussing these candidates service records. How 'bout you Rip? 😉

We could talk about Kerry's undistinguished senate career and his voting record which puts him to the left of Teddy Kennedy, but what fun would that be.
Obviously he did a good job represeting those who are his constituents. As president he would have to be a lot more Moderate if he wants to get anything done. As with Clinton Kerry probably would be able to adjust. On the other hand it seems that the Dub hasn't been able to adjust which has caused this nation to become as polarized as it was during the turbulent 60's. Obviously he hasn't led very well, even some of those who intially believed him and supported him immediately following 9/11 and the justified retaliation against Al Qaeda and the Taliban now feel betrayed by his ill conceived invasion and occupation of Iraq which was based on false reasoning!

I don't think that Kerry has the political skill to co-opt Republican policy like Clinton did.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
I don't think that Kerry has the political skill to co-opt Republican policy like Clinton did.
Well if he wabnts to be a successful President he will have to compromise seeing that in all likelyhood therre will be a Republican Congress. I also believe that having Kerry in the Whitehouse will cause the Republican Congress to revert back to it's conservative fiscal ways.
 
Gridlock is usually a good thing when it comes to the government.

I don't see Kerry winning though so it's probably a moot point.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Gridlock is usually a good thing when it comes to the government.

I don't see Kerry winning though so it's probably a moot point.
I didn't earlier but now it looks very possible.
 
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Gridlock is usually a good thing when it comes to the government.

I don't see Kerry winning though so it's probably a moot point.
I didn't earlier but now it looks very possible.

Running on his service in Vietnam has really backfired on him. He should have stuck to the "I'm not Bush theme", although that was probably doomed to fail too as there probably some intelligent undecideds who actually want to know what he does stand for.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Gridlock is usually a good thing when it comes to the government.

I don't see Kerry winning though so it's probably a moot point.
I didn't earlier but now it looks very possible.

Running on his service in Vietnam has really backfired on him. He should have stuck to the "I'm not Bush theme", although that was probably doomed to fail too as there probably some intelligent undecideds who actually want to know what he does stand for.
Agaoinst a competent standing President you might be right but Bush is far from competent. Those intelligent undecideds already know what the Dub stands for and I am willing to bet they aren't to happy about it or they would not be undecideds.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin

Running on his service in Vietnam has really backfired on him. He should have stuck to the "I'm not Bush theme", although that was probably doomed to fail too as there probably some intelligent undecideds who actually want to know what he does stand for.

Well, it's questionable whether it's really "backfired," although the lies of the SBVFT have definitely turned it into a bit of a morass.

At this point, Sen Kerry and President Bush are neck and neck, and Kerry is looking stronger than he did a few months ago. President Bush's popularity is marginally below where Ford's was in Aug 76, but at this point it's anybody's guess who will win.
 
Originally posted by: DonVito
Originally posted by: Riprorin

Running on his service in Vietnam has really backfired on him. He should have stuck to the "I'm not Bush theme", although that was probably doomed to fail too as there probably some intelligent undecideds who actually want to know what he does stand for.

Well, it's questionable whether it's really "backfired," although the lies of the SBVFT have definitely turned it into a bit of a morass.

At this point, Sen Kerry and President Bush are neck and neck, and Kerry is looking stronger than he did a few months ago. President Bush's popularity is marginally below where Ford's was in Aug 76, but at this point it's anybody's guess who will win.

Bush leads Kerry by 18 percentage points with vets. Do you think vets are a bunch of gullible fools?
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin

Bush leads Kerry by 18 percentage points with vets. Do you think vets are a bunch of gullible fools?

Rip, you know perfectly well I'm a military member, and no, I don't think vets are "a bunch of gullible fools." Military members generally tend to vote Republican, and this is no exception.

I do think it's interesting, that said, that a number of prominent vets are siding with Kerry. Gen Tony McPeak, a former AF Chief of Staff who endorsed Bush in 2000, for example, now appears in Kerry campaign ads.
 
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Bush leads Kerry by 18 percentage points with vets. Do you think vets are a bunch of gullible fools?
No, I think the current polls of vets reflects only enough time to have reacted to two weeks of the NOT SO SWIFT boat liars lies. We'll see if the polls move after they've had time to digest the responses.

In case you haven't noticed, most of the more credible media has ripped the swift liars more than one new asshole with lots of documentation of just how full of sh8 they are. When confronted and asked directly, none of the swift liars have ANY documentation to prove ANY of their assertions.

If you still believe their bullsh8, I think YOU are either a gullible fool or a damned liar. I prefer the gentler vision of you as the fool. 🙂
 
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