ANTI-KERRY AD A HIT

[Riprorin]

From the New York Post:

August 18, 2004 --

WASHINGTON ? Vietnam veterans opposing John Kerry have scored a hit with a tough TV ad that claims he lied about his war record ? it makes swing voters think twice about backing Kerry, an independent study has found.

The ad planted doubts in the minds of 27 percent of independent voters who planned to vote for Kerry or leaned pro-Kerry. After seeing it, they were no longer sure they'd back him, the study found.

At issue is the ad run by an independently funded group known as Swift Veterans for Truth, which features 14 veterans who served in Vietnam along with Kerry as they accuse him of lying about his war record.

"The whole goal of a negative ad is to plant a seed of doubt ? and it did," said Professor Chris Borrick of Muhlenberg College, who did the ad study with the firm HCD Research.

"Obviously, the Swift Boat Veterans' intent was to publicly question Kerry's war record, and it looks like they succeeded," said HCD chief Glenn Kessler, who added that viewers found the 60-second ad more believable as it went on.

Kessler, who wasn't paid by anyone for the analysis, said he leans Democratic.

The Swift Vets study used 1,275 participants, including 371 independents, who watched ads and registered their reaction at every second using technology normally used to rate product ads. Half viewed the Swift Vets ad and the other half saw a pro-Kerry ad based on his convention speech, which was rated less persuasive.

HCD is also completing a study of a counter-ad by the liberal group MoveOn.org that questions President Bush's military record ? it appears far less effective in raising doubts among pro-Bush swing voters.

Kerry yesterday issued a statement condemning MoveOn's anti-Bush ad as "inappropriate" after Sen. John McCain blasted it ? but a key Kerry ally, retired Gen. Wesley Clark, echoed the MoveOn charges that Bush ducked combat duty.

One of the anti-Kerry vets, John O'Neill, wrote the best seller "Unfit for Command," which lambastes Kerry as a cowardly liar and says his claim to have spent Christmas 1968 on a covert mission to Cambodia was a lie.

The Kerry camp is now hedging on that claim, which Kerry once told the Senate was "seared" into his memory ever since President Richard Nixon falsely claimed there were no U.S. troops in Cambodia. In fact, Nixon wasn't yet president.

The Democrat's team yesterday held a press conference of pro-Kerry vets, but none of his crewmates was able to validate his Christmas-in-Cambodia claim.

 

[Riprorin]

Waits for post about how stupid voters are...

 

[Todd33]

New York Post... ewwww

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Waits for post about how stupid voters are...

So has Larry Thurlow returned his Bronze Star?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

so why is Kerry slowly increasing his lead over Bush? Doesn't look like this ad is doing much.

 

[Todd33]

Guy with three front teeth with beer on couch: "That soma b!tch lied about his medals? He's unfit for been presdent!"

 

[syzygy]

The Kerry camp is now hedging on that claim, which Kerry once told the Senate was "seared" into his memory ever since President Richard Nixon falsely claimed there were no U.S. troops in Cambodia. In fact, Nixon wasn't yet president.

so 'seared' that it burned away his brain. no wonder he can't recall which president was in office when he was imagining his pseudo-ops adventures in the deep dark cambodian jungle.

 

[TuxDave]

Ok. So they showed a biased ad to a bunch of people and it caused them to swing. What if they then showed the rebuttals to the ad, how many would still stay pro-Bush at that point? So it's nothing surprising. If one side had complete control over the media and could show as many ads blasting the other side without rebuttal, no doubt that side would win.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

The New York Post makes Mein Kampf look, er, fair and balanced . . .

 

[syzygy]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
so why is Kerry slowly increasing his lead over Bush? Doesn't look like this ad is doing much.

in the event that bush loses, the hordes of loony lefties are due their comeuppance.

they have exercised a vicious and unrelenting destruction of reason in their war against bush that
they can expect the same pitiless scrutiny with every tiny piece of misstatement, lie (no matter how
small), word, act, presumed thought (see m. moore), bump or scratch kerry makes.

even the political significance of any action he has not even conceived of yet in virtue of his known
ideological biases will be torn asunder with extreme prejudice just to build momentum that will pervert
all that he claims to represent, who he beleives to be, and possibly, if ridden long enough, new memories
will be 'seared' into him to effect a multiple-personality shift. kerry has slept his last. the right will give m.
moore and his legions a lesson to remember. bwahahaha

 

[arsbanned]

Bush DID duck combat duty. Along with Cheney and others of the war for money Presidency.

 

[GeneralGrievous]

Ok. So they showed a biased ad to a bunch of people and it caused them to swing. What if they then showed the rebuttals to the ad, how many would still stay pro-Bush at that point? So it's nothing surprising. If one side had complete control over the media and could show as many ads blasting the other side without rebuttal, no doubt that side would win.

They can certainly try. Do you think Kerry can compete with Bush in the raw advertising department given his disadvantage in funding?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
None of his crewmates able to validate his Christmas-in-Cambodia claim.

None of the NOT SO SWIFT boat liars is able to confirm they served with Kerry in Viet Nam. The closest most of them came was being in the same war, regardless of whether it was at the same time.

Do you think that constantly reposting the same bullsh8 makes it any more true than it was the last time? You might actually be funny if you weren't so pathetic.

When it comes to accuracy, remember, the New York Post was the ONLY news paper to break the astonishing news:

July 6, 2004 -- EXCLUSIVE

John Kerry has chosen Rep. Richard Gephardt, the veteran congressman from Missouri, to be his running mate, The Post has learned.

Gephardt, 63, a 28-year veteran of the House of Representatives, could be named by the presumptive Democratic nominee as the party's vice-presidential candidate as soon as today.

Rip -- I keep telling you, it's all about crediblity. Unfortunately, you don't believe me. Fortunately, NOBODY believes you. :laugh:

Originally posted by: Riprorin
They (the democrats) want us to fail as long as President Bush is in charge...

It has nothing to do with "wanting." Bush is already a failure.

Winning elections is all that counts.

If you honestly believe winning elections is all that counts, you don't understand anything about the United States of America, and your opinion simply counts for nothing.

• :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Look at me! I am crying out for attention.

SSDD You suck.

 

[heartsurgeon]

Rip...you will see a trend in al the lib/bush-hater responses...
they never discuss the facts of the issue...
they attack the integrity of the people making the statements they don't agree with...

Ann Coulter has pointed this out, about how you can't have a real discussion with a liberal because all they do is heap invective upon you, and never discuss the topic.

the gentleman who appeared in the swift boat ads, and those interviewed in O'Neill's book are mostly highly decorated Vietnam Veterans, who actually served in Vietnam for more than "one semester" i believe in O'Neill's book more than 200 vets who served with Kerry (out of 230?) don't feel he is fit to be commander in chief. Obvious any moron knows 200 people aren't going to fit on Kerry' swift boat, but that doesn't mean they didn't serve with him, have knowledge of his abilities, judgement and decision making.

in a picture that Kerry ran on his own web site of fellow officers that served with Kerry, only 2 of the 23(exact number?) actually support him....

none of these facts seem to be in the discussion.

go figure!

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Rip...you will see a trend in al the lib/bush-hater responses...
they never discuss the facts of the issue...
they attack the integrity of the people making the statements they don't agree with...

Ann Coulter has pointed this out, about how you can't have a real discussion with a liberal because all they do is heap invective upon you, and never discuss the topic.

the gentleman who appeared in the swift boat ads, and those interviewed in O'Neill's book are mostly highly decorated Vietnam Veterans, who actually served in Vietnam for more than "one semester" i believe in O'Neill's book more than 200 vets who served with Kerry (out of 230?) don't feel he is fit to be commander in chief. Obvious any moron knows 200 people aren't going to fit on Kerry' swift boat, but that doesn't mean they didn't serve with him, have knowledge of his abilities, judgement and decision making.

in a picture that Kerry ran on his own web site of fellow officers that served with Kerry, only 2 of the 23(exact number?) actually support him....

none of these facts seem to be in the discussion.

go figure!

Zzzzzzzzz

I am actually tired of watching O'Neil getting owned on late night political TV. It was genuinly funny the first couple of times but now it is just embarrasing. Same applies for this whole Xmas in Cambodia crap. Non issues posted by non important people.

next...

 

[Gaard]

Just for you, heartsurgeon. link


Oh yeah...

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Good Bye

 

[villager]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Rip...you will see a trend in al the lib/bush-hater responses...
they never discuss the facts of the issue...
they attack the integrity of the people making the statements they don't agree with...

Ann Coulter has pointed this out, about how you can't have a real discussion with a liberal because all they do is heap invective upon you, and never discuss the topic.

the gentleman who appeared in the swift boat ads, and those interviewed in O'Neill's book are mostly highly decorated Vietnam Veterans, who actually served in Vietnam for more than "one semester" i believe in O'Neill's book more than 200 vets who served with Kerry (out of 230?) don't feel he is fit to be commander in chief. Obvious any moron knows 200 people aren't going to fit on Kerry' swift boat, but that doesn't mean they didn't serve with him, have knowledge of his abilities, judgement and decision making.

in a picture that Kerry ran on his own web site of fellow officers that served with Kerry, only 2 of the 23(exact number?) actually support him....

none of these facts seem to be in the discussion.

go figure!

Here are some facts.

...
During the war, Elliott gave Kerry high marks in fitness reports and recommended Kerry for the Silver Star and the Bronze Star. "John was one of 50 young officers who performed extremely well," Elliott said in an interview in May. "I wrote his fitness report, and I stand by that."

But in his affidavit, Elliott backed away from the Silver Star nomination he wrote for Kerry in 1969. Kerry won the award for chasing down and killing a wounded Viet Cong guerrilla who had confronted his boat with a grenade launcher.

In his affidavit, Elliott questioned Kerry's actions, suggesting he might have shot the guerrilla in the back. Elliott was not present during the action, and there have been no credible eyewitness accounts affirming his version.

Kerry's Swift boat mates have long insisted that Kerry's action was appropriate and saved their lives.

A day after the ad appeared, Elliott said in an interview with the Boston Globe that he regretted signing the affidavit and that he believed Kerry still deserved the Silver Star. Then he issued a second affidavit standing by his first sworn statement, saying he had been misquoted by the Globe.

But in his second affidavit, Elliott also admitted, "I do not claim to have personal knowledge as to how Kerry shot the wounded, fleeing Viet Cong."
...


In a Swift Boat Veterans for Truth affidavit, Hibbard said Kerry came into his office "to apply for a Purple Heart," but that he turned down Kerry's "Purple Heart request." He said he was "shocked to later learn that [Kerry] subsequently received an undeserved Purple Heart for his wound."

But in a conflicting interview this summer, Hibbard said Kerry did not directly ask for the medal but a medical report. (The report would have been automatically forwarded to Navy administrators in Saigon who oversaw Purple Heart awards.) Hibbard said he believed the wound was too minor to warrant a report but that later he "took some heat" from military superiors for refusing to write it up.


Story
Another story


"On Christmas Eve he was near Cambodia; he was around 50 miles from the Cambodian border. There's no indictment of Kerry to be made, but he was mistaken about Christmas in Cambodia," said Douglas Brinkley, who has unique access to the candidate's wartime journals.

But Mr Brinkley rejected accusations that the senator had never been to Cambodia, insisting he was telling the truth about running undisclosed "black" missions there at the height of the war.

He said: "Kerry went into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and February 1969 on clandestine missions. He had a run dropping off US Navy Seals, Green Berets and CIA guys." The missions were not armed attacks on Cambodia, said Mr Brinkley, who did not include the clandestine missions in his wartime biography of Mr Kerry, Tour of Duty.

"He was a ferry master, a drop-off guy, but it was dangerous as hell. Kerry carries a hat he was given by one CIA operative. In a part of his journals which I didn't use he writes about discussions with CIA guys he was dropping off."

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Rip...you will see a trend in al the lib/bush-hater responses...
they never discuss the facts of the issue...
they attack the integrity of the people making the statements they don't agree with...

Ann Coulter has pointed this out, about how you can't have a real discussion with a liberal because all they do is heap invective upon you, and never discuss the topic.

the gentleman who appeared in the swift boat ads, and those interviewed in O'Neill's book are mostly highly decorated Vietnam Veterans, who actually served in Vietnam for more than "one semester" i believe in O'Neill's book more than 200 vets who served with Kerry (out of 230?) don't feel he is fit to be commander in chief. Obvious any moron knows 200 people aren't going to fit on Kerry' swift boat, but that doesn't mean they didn't serve with him, have knowledge of his abilities, judgement and decision making.

in a picture that Kerry ran on his own web site of fellow officers that served with Kerry, only 2 of the 23(exact number?) actually support him....

none of these facts seem to be in the discussion.

go figure!

Swiftboat discussion is here.



http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=52&threadid=1374998&enterthread=y

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: syzygy

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
so why is Kerry slowly increasing his lead over Bush? Doesn't look like this ad is doing much.

in the event that bush loses, the hordes of loony lefties are due their comeuppance.

they have exercised a vicious and unrelenting destruction of reason in their war against bush that
they can expect the same pitiless scrutiny with every tiny piece of misstatement, lie (no matter how
small), word, act, presumed thought (see m. moore), bump or scratch kerry makes.

even the political significance of any action he has not even conceived of yet in virtue of his known
ideological biases will be torn asunder with extreme prejudice just to build momentum that will pervert
all that he claims to represent, who he beleives to be, and possibly, if ridden long enough, new memories
will be 'seared' into him to effect a multiple-personality shift. kerry has slept his last. the right will give m.
moore and his legions a lesson to remember. bwahahaha

Wow, you just predicted what will happen in 1992 and what did happen to Clinton - Cheers to you!
:roll:

 

[Riprorin]

According to George Elliott:

''I simply have no reason for these guys to be lying, and if they are lying in concert, it is one hell of a conspiracy."

 

[XMan]

Many people have said that Kerry was given high marks in his fitness reports, but I also heard that he got a lot of "neither/nor" marks, which would indicate that he wasn't exemplary in those areas but hadn't done poorly enough for his commanding officer to ruin his career over - a few bad marks can taint a career forever on fitness reports.

Is there any way to see the hard copy of Kerry's fitness reports to verify this? I don't want to call it 100% fact as it is hearsay, but it's interesting if true.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: syzygy

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
so why is Kerry slowly increasing his lead over Bush? Doesn't look like this ad is doing much.

in the event that bush loses, the hordes of loony lefties are due their comeuppance.

they have exercised a vicious and unrelenting destruction of reason in their war against bush that
they can expect the same pitiless scrutiny with every tiny piece of misstatement, lie (no matter how
small), word, act, presumed thought (see m. moore), bump or scratch kerry makes.

even the political significance of any action he has not even conceived of yet in virtue of his known
ideological biases will be torn asunder with extreme prejudice just to build momentum that will pervert
all that he claims to represent, who he beleives to be, and possibly, if ridden long enough, new memories
will be 'seared' into him to effect a multiple-personality shift. kerry has slept his last. the right will give m.
moore and his legions a lesson to remember. bwahahaha

Punctuation is a great tool. Use it.

 

[jdbolick]

Originally posted by: Harvey
None of the NOT SO SWIFT boat liars is able to confirm they served with Kerry in Viet Nam. The closest most of them came was being in the same war, regardless of whether it was at the same time.

Actually chief, SBVfT includes every single one of Kerry's commanding officers while he served in Vietnam. Also the guys under Kerry's leadership who support his campaign all confirm that Kerry lied about being in Cambodia. Read the story.

And villager, you might want to read John F. Kerry: The Complete Biography By The Boston Globe Reporters Who Know Him Best . In it Kerry himself states that he shot the possibly unarmed, fleeing Viet Cong in the back.


Christ I swear the bias in here is ridiculous. Granted, I've been in conservative forums where it's been quite bad the other way, but this is absurd. How much of a concession would it really take for everyone involved to say:

"Kerry and Bush are both good guys who think they can do what's best for the United States. "


Wow, I think bin Laden would get a warmer reception in here.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
Ann Coulter has pointed this out, about how you can't have a real discussion with a liberal because all they do is heap invective upon you, and never discuss the topic.

Thanks, now I know to never listen to you what you have to say ever again. You and Rip are both incompetent, thick-headed, trolls. /end rant