Another nail in ObamaCare

[Hayabusa Rider]

Obama refused the advise of the professionals. Had he wanted to listen to their advice and concerns; there is a good possibility that many of the unworkable ideas would have been identified and addressed.

Instead, the bill was written so that all the problems were hidden over or stated that it will be worked out at a later date.

How can one analyze what as not been written. IT was done that way so nobody could question the rules before the votes.

There was never a serious attempt to improve healthcare as demonstrated by the fact that this is purely a political construct with no considered input from the only people that could ask the right questions.

I think I like my idea more and more. People can pick policare complete practitioners and infrastructure. They can pay for it and live and die with it. Since some believe Obama and Congress are superior health care providers, they ought to jump on it, but don't ask the rest of to pay or fix it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's your theory. But even before Obamacare, the professionals have not fixed the problem. Why would they? It's not a problem for them. Runaway healthcare costs are only a problem if you are paying them, not if you are on the receiving end of twice the money for providing worse results.

Please take the system you crave. You and yours enjoy.

 

[PokerGuy]

That's your theory. But even before Obamacare, the professionals have not fixed the problem. Why would they? It's not a problem for them. Runaway healthcare costs are only a problem if you are paying them, not if you are on the receiving end of twice the money for providing worse results.

"the professionals" who know the answers are not politicians, so there's no way they could have fixed anything. Neither party has ever wanted to really fix anything. Now along comes Obummercare and once again nobody asks those who actually understand what's going on. Now it's going to become obvious it's an unworkable mess, and we're going to be stuck with it for a long time because the dims can't afford politically to admit the screwed the pooch.

 

[nobodyknows]

Do you want the best care or not? The best care requires those tests you complain about.

That said, the level of regulation is crazy at its current level. Tack on more and watch it implode. In a sick way, I would like to watch it go down in flames. The only reason why I hope it doesnt is because dumb liberals wouldnt own the ashes they created anyways.

So you're a doctor now? DUHH!!

I was recently sick and they thought I might have a blockage in my intestine, so the doctor ordered a CT sacn. That would have cost $1500 plus another $300 for the radiologist to read it. I said won't a x-ray tell if I have a bowl obstruction (I knew it would) and they said yes so I got by with just a $75 x-ray.

If you were paying for it out of your own pocket you would do the same thing, but since you have insurance you are deluded and think that the more you spend the better your health care is, which isn't true.

Dumb liberals indeed.

 

[theeedude]

"the professionals" who know the answers are not politicians, so there's no way they could have fixed anything. Neither party has ever wanted to really fix anything. Now along comes Obummercare and once again nobody asks those who actually understand what's going on. Now it's going to become obvious it's an unworkable mess, and we're going to be stuck with it for a long time because the dims can't afford politically to admit the screwed the pooch.

You know why politicians don't try to fix healthcare? Because any time they do, they are attacked by the likes of you. We are living the health care system that those who worked hard to shut down any reform attempts want us to live.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Yeah, gotta love how the author of that biased POS article threw the Mayo Clinic's name in there for effect. Yet if your not to "brain dead" to do a little research on your own you would find out the trade organization quoted represents over 68,000 dr's in thousands of groups of which only a handfull work at the Mayo clinic.

But I understand your position, haters gonna hate. You will suck up this bias partisan drivel with out the slightest thought or research because it fits your political agenda

I see you are in Dallas. we should meet of for beers, then i'll kick the crap out of you and see if you'd rather go to Parkland, the government susidised hospital, or one of the Presbiterian hospitals.

Obamacare isn't about getting people better medical care. It's about taking from the people that have money and giving it to the poor in order to gain votes. That's what all Democrat plans are about. How can we make the poor, lazy, dumb, vote for our continued failure? Oh keep promising them more handouts and tell them that rich people are evil.

 

[chucky2]

So you're a doctor now? DUHH!!

I was recently sick and they thought I might have a blockage in my intestine, so the doctor ordered a CT sacn. That would have cost $1500 plus another $300 for the radiologist to read it. I said won't a x-ray tell if I have a bowl obstruction (I knew it would) and they said yes so I got by with just a $75 x-ray.

If you were paying for it out of your own pocket you would do the same thing, but since you have insurance you are deluded and think that the more you spend the better your health care is, which isn't true.

Dumb liberals indeed.

FYI: My dad recently had surgery and they found 2 points that were 50% obstructed and the main one (the reason he needed the surgery) was 100% obstructed. Numerous CT scans did not find the issue. What ended up finding it in the end was a 'small bowel follow-through' test, where you drink a solution, and they keep taking x-ray's of it going through you until they see where the obstruction is.

This is after of course you have the endoscopy and colonoscopy. If you haven't had one yet, and are still have issues they've been unable to diagnose, might be a good thing to check on. Dad's ended up being gallbladder cancer that's spread (Stage IV)...faster you get sh1t like that diagnosed the better.

Chuck

 

[Genx87]

So you're a doctor now? DUHH!!

I was recently sick and they thought I might have a blockage in my intestine, so the doctor ordered a CT sacn. That would have cost $1500 plus another $300 for the radiologist to read it. I said won't a x-ray tell if I have a bowl obstruction (I knew it would) and they said yes so I got by with just a $75 x-ray.

If you were paying for it out of your own pocket you would do the same thing, but since you have insurance you are deluded and think that the more you spend the better your health care is, which isn't true.

Dumb liberals indeed.

Not a doctor but what does that have to do with anything?

Speaking of being a doctor. I had a heart palpatation last fall that wouldnt go away. Would an x-ray have been good enough for them to figure out what is going on with my ticker? Or would a more expensive MRI have been warranted in your book doc? Maybe I should come to you for my medical needs. You seem to know it all as you instructed your physician to give you an x-ray instead of a CT scan.

I am paying out of pocket for most of medical costs. I am on a high deductible plan. Where prudent I refuse service or ask for an alternative. However there are many times where more expensive diagnosis is required. x-rays wont cover everything.

Not entirely sure what the point of your post was except to toot your own horn about saving money on a possible intestinal blockage. Care to share if you had one, and what the x-ray said about what it was and how it was treated?

 

[PokerGuy]

You know why politicians don't try to fix healthcare? Because any time they do, they are attacked by the likes of you. We are living the health care system that those who worked hard to shut down any reform attempts want us to live.

What on earth makes you think I'm opposed to health care reform? I'm all for reform, as long as it's a step in the right direction. That option certainly was not offered in obummercare, so I oppose it. We need real reform not the obummercare garbage that is terrible all around. Lawmakers got punished for that one at the ballot box and will be again as it becomes evident how terrible it is.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

I see you are in Dallas. we should meet of for beers, then i'll kick the crap out of you and see if you'd rather go to Parkland, the government susidised hospital, or one of the Presbiterian hospitals.

Obamacare isn't about getting people better medical care. It's about taking from the people that have money and giving it to the poor in order to gain votes. That's what all Democrat plans are about. How can we make the poor, lazy, dumb, vote for our continued failure? Oh keep promising them more handouts and tell them that rich people are evil.

Bravo! You have no valid response to my argument so you get all butthurt and resort to personal attacks and threats of violence while hiding behind the intertubes. And by the way my 91yo uncle is currently in Parkland rehabing from Pneumonia under Medicare coverage and is being treated fine. He raised 5 children of which 1 is a Lawyer, 1 is a Doctor, and 1 served as undersecretary of state in the Bush administration and our family has no problem with his treatment at Parkland so take your goboment hate and stick it up your ass.

And please don't try and speak for Democrats, you don't have a clue. Try and speak for your own party. Do Republicans stand for anything other than being anti Democrats? What is the Republican plan for lowering healthcare costs? Oh yeah, take Grandma's medicare away and give her a voucher that will cover a fraction of private insurance

 

[jhbball]

What on earth makes you think I'm opposed to health care reform? I'm all for reform, as long as it's a step in the right direction. That option certainly was not offered in obummercare, so I oppose it. We need real reform not the obummercare garbage that is terrible all around. Lawmakers got punished for that one at the ballot box and will be again as it becomes evident how terrible it is.

lolno.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You know why politicians don't try to fix healthcare? Because any time they do, they are attacked by the likes of you. We are living the health care system that those who worked hard to shut down any reform attempts want us to live.

No, but thanks for playing!

 

[dmcowen674]

Government makes regulations such that they are impractical to follow.

More of the Obama ideals that they know better than the professionals on how to solve the problem.

We will make you well or kill you in the process.

The sooner the appeals court gets this to the SCOTUS, the better.

Ammunition such as this will make it harder to justy this administrations boondoggle.

The Government has been regulating the country since the beginning, get over it, you will comply.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

The Government has been regulating the country since the beginning, get over it, you will comply.

When you got screwed up the ass did you dress up in little girls clothing for them? I mean they control you, and I hope you complied.

 

[dmcowen674]

When you got screwed up the ass did you dress up in little girls clothing for them? I mean they control you, and I hope you complied.

Pretty shade of orange, I'm sure you would have loved it.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Pretty shade of orange, I'm sure you would have loved it.

Actually, no. Not only that but I would have been pretty pissed off if they had made you or anyone else comply and were told to get over it. That was the point. Because a thing can be done doesn't mean it should.

It's astounding that people fold when faced with institutions what wield power because they think they should.

Seems to me people ought to be giving a lot more FUs to those types.

 

[trenchfoot]

And the repubs and the teabaggers and the blue dogs had absolutely nothing to do with how the healthcare reform law ended up looking like. Riiiiiiiiiigggggghht. Suuuuuurrrrre. lol

 

[Fern]

OMG stop the presses! A trade organization representing dr's opposes regulations and finds them onerous! I bet they are the only trade org in history that ever opposed increase regulations
-snip-

It's entirely possible that the regulation are so complex, and not fully understood at this time that they are discouraging people form participating:

President Barack Obama's main idea for getting quality health care at less cost was in jeopardy Wednesday after key medical providers called his administration's initial blueprint so complex it's unworkable.

I've been reading for some time now that corporation are incurring large legal bills trying to figure out how to comply with some of these regulation. Noncompliance often comes with great costs.

Since these are new regulations there will most certainly be confusion and disagreement with the how they are to be adhered to, how interpreted. They are so new there are no court cases clarifying anything. There is no lawyer with any experience in them. There are no consultants with any experience woith them. These are real and significant problems that always exist when substanial new regualtions are issued. Often, the best thing to do is avoid having them apply to you until they are better understood.

Then there's this:

One of the major problems seems to be that medical groups have little experience in managing insurance risk

You can't just demand people suddenly develop expertise in unknow fields, or bear the consequences. It just doesn't work. And to get that new expertise might be damn expensive.

I don't know if all the complaints/fears are valid, but I do not believe that they should be dismissed out-of-hand.

Fern

 

[Thump553]

When you got screwed up the ass did you dress up in little girls clothing for them? I mean they control you, and I hope you complied.

Even to a sixth grader this argument would appear incredibly immature.

But hey, go with want you have. Slander and name calling (like constanting referring to the health care plan as the Obummer plan) are about all you have, not facts.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Even to a sixth grader this argument would appear incredibly immature.

But hey, go with want you have. Slander and name calling (like constanting referring to the health care plan as the Obummer plan) are about all you have, not facts.

Well I do have some facts.

No significant analysis by people who actually provide health care was done. We had a blue ribbon committee created for something which was remarkably simple by comparison, the Gulf oil spill. Health care? Pfft, we're Congress. Don't tell us what to do.

Precisely what advance research directly related to reforming health care proper at the national level was done? What extensive non-partisan analysis of health care was done? Oh, there isn't one.

It's been remarked that the US has a lower life expectancy than many industrialized nations. Where is the cause for this and the data to back it up that was used to understand and correct? Oh nothing was done.

Just what has been done to facilitate the patient/provider relationship, and do you or the government even understand what that really means?

What about the allocation of resources? What mechanism is put in place to assist with that?

Some of us went over this and more in detail, yet the shame of it to you is that it's called Obummercare or whatever instead of asking why the important questions were not asked, possible solutions with their good and bad points, realistic cost estimates calculated by people who calculate the cost of health care, not beans. Where are the physicians and other health care providers input? Where are the health care advocate who work with them? Where are the actuaries who must figure out what costs what or have their companies fail? Why wasn't all this sorted out BEFORE legislation? Because it wasn't wanted. This isn't about health care, it's about a trophy to hang on the wall.

 

[EagleKeeper]

And the repubs and the teabaggers and the blue dogs had absolutely nothing to do with how the healthcare reform law ended up looking like. Riiiiiiiiiigggggghht. Suuuuuurrrrre. lol

The Dems put in the TBD all over the place.
They did not know how it would be done and did not want to expose their hand.

They will create a Health Czar who will be all knowing and create the appropriate regulations at some time in the future to accomplish some unknown policy in the future.

Recipe for disaster and abuse.:thumbsdown:

 

[theeedude]

Well I do have some facts.

No significant analysis by people who actually provide health care was done. We had a blue ribbon committee created for something which was remarkably simple by comparison, the Gulf oil spill. Health care? Pfft, we're Congress. Don't tell us what to do.

Precisely what advance research directly related to reforming health care proper at the national level was done? What extensive non-partisan analysis of health care was done? Oh, there isn't one.

It's been remarked that the US has a lower life expectancy than many industrialized nations. Where is the cause for this and the data to back it up that was used to understand and correct? Oh nothing was done.

Just what has been done to facilitate the patient/provider relationship, and do you or the government even understand what that really means?

What about the allocation of resources? What mechanism is put in place to assist with that?

Some of us went over this and more in detail, yet the shame of it to you is that it's called Obummercare or whatever instead of asking why the important questions were not asked, possible solutions with their good and bad points, realistic cost estimates calculated by people who calculate the cost of health care, not beans. Where are the physicians and other health care providers input? Where are the health care advocate who work with them? Where are the actuaries who must figure out what costs what or have their companies fail? Why wasn't all this sorted out BEFORE legislation? Because it wasn't wanted. This isn't about health care, it's about a trophy to hang on the wall.

Easy to be a naysayer, harder to come up with a plan, which is why GOP punted when they had a chance.

 

[fskimospy]

Well I do have some facts.

No significant analysis by people who actually provide health care was done. We had a blue ribbon committee created for something which was remarkably simple by comparison, the Gulf oil spill. Health care? Pfft, we're Congress. Don't tell us what to do.

Precisely what advance research directly related to reforming health care proper at the national level was done? What extensive non-partisan analysis of health care was done? Oh, there isn't one.

It's been remarked that the US has a lower life expectancy than many industrialized nations. Where is the cause for this and the data to back it up that was used to understand and correct? Oh nothing was done.

Just what has been done to facilitate the patient/provider relationship, and do you or the government even understand what that really means?

What about the allocation of resources? What mechanism is put in place to assist with that?

Some of us went over this and more in detail, yet the shame of it to you is that it's called Obummercare or whatever instead of asking why the important questions were not asked, possible solutions with their good and bad points, realistic cost estimates calculated by people who calculate the cost of health care, not beans. Where are the physicians and other health care providers input? Where are the health care advocate who work with them? Where are the actuaries who must figure out what costs what or have their companies fail? Why wasn't all this sorted out BEFORE legislation? Because it wasn't wanted. This isn't about health care, it's about a trophy to hang on the wall.

You have some very odd notions about this health care bill, very few of which seem grounded in reality.

Advance research on how to reform health care in America has been ongoing for decades now. Why a new study would need to be commissioned by Congress specifically is beyond me.

Research on the factors that affect life expectancy in the US are undertaken constantly. Why new studies on this would need to be commissioned by Congress specifically is beyond me.

The AMA itself claims that it had significant input into the bill, and it's the largest association of physicians in America. How you can say physicians weren't asked is beyond me.

Where did you think they got the ideas for reform from, just pulling them out of their ass? There is so little understanding how bills are actually made on this forum, it's sad.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

You have some very odd notions about this health care bill, very few of which seem grounded in reality.

Advance research on how to reform health care in America has been ongoing for decades now. Why a new study would need to be commissioned by Congress specifically is beyond me.

Research on the factors that affect life expectancy in the US are undertaken constantly. Why new studies on this would need to be commissioned by Congress specifically is beyond me.

The AMA itself claims that it had significant input into the bill, and it's the largest association of physicians in America. How you can say physicians weren't asked is beyond me.

Where did you think they got the ideas for reform from, just pulling them out of their ass? There is so little understanding how bills are actually made on this forum, it's sad.

It's sad that you have so little understanding of how health care works, but you do have good company in Congress. Clearly you have no understanding of the interactions within the system and how one affects the others.

Someone did this study and someone did that study and that is good enough. Take bits and pieces and don't consider how feedback into the system may change it.

This is exactly what the neocons did with Iraq. They listed people who knew that Saddam had WMDs. They provided reports. They then created policy based around it. Oops, yeah what they said was true. Didn't work so well. That's the breaks. Well that knowledge has been kicking around for decades and it should have been good enough.

You oppose gathering knowledge in the context of reforming for the next hundred years or so what is the most complex organization in human history which is the system of health care in America. Why? Because someone did some studies. Great.

 

[shortylickens]

To be fair they never actually had a plan to PROVIDE health care at any cost, much less a reasonable one.
Were they gonna build hospitals?
Were they gonna send teens to med school?
Were they gonna bitch slap the pharmaceutical companies?