Another nail in ObamaCare

[fskimospy]

It's sad that you have so little understanding of how health care works, but you do have good company in Congress. Clearly you have no understanding of the interactions within the system and how one affects the others.

Someone did this study and someone did that study and that is good enough. Take bits and pieces and don't consider how feedback into the system may change it.

This is exactly what the neocons did with Iraq. They listed people who knew that Saddam had WMDs. They provided reports. They then created policy based around it. Oops, yeah what they said was true. Didn't work so well. That's the breaks. Well that knowledge has been kicking around for decades and it should have been good enough.

You oppose gathering knowledge in the context of reforming for the next hundred years or so what is the most complex organization in human history which is the system of health care in America. Why? Because someone did some studies. Great.

Uhmmm, policy studies always try to take into account the larger effects. I don't oppose gaining knowledge, I was just taking issue with the ridiculous idea that you put out about Congress creating this policy without studying the issue or getting professional input.

Your Iraq analogy is pretty poor, and that's not how Iraq policy was crafted.

 

[Attic]

Both jobs i've held during this health care overhaul have left me with a a solid impressiong that its costs are high and likely at this time unknown.

Doing contract work for Health Care Net Inc there was never a shortage of conversation about how much needed to be done to understand and figure out the health care plan. To say their was a feeling of being overwhelmed would put it mildly. Incredible amounts of man hours to figure it out, it was THE topic of conversation during my month there. It didnt stike me as a plan that was helping anybody but a few ego's.

Second job, permanent, and I quickly saw a >20% increase in health insurance costs directly related to Obamacare.

I have a hard time believing that Obamacare, for anygood it may do, will ever lower costs.

Most dems and repubs would likely agree that healthcare overhauls was needed prior to Obamacare. Most repubs simply felt that Obamacare was the wrong answer and it is increasingly appearing that they were right.

 

[senseamp]

Both jobs i've held during this health care overhaul have left me with a a solid impressiong that its costs are high and likely at this time unknown.

Doing contract work for Health Care Net Inc there was never a shortage of conversation about how much needed to be done to understand and figure out the health care plan. To say their was a feeling of being overwhelmed would put it mildly. Incredible amounts of man hours to figure it out, it was THE topic of conversation during my month there. It didnt stike me as a plan that was helping anybody but a few ego's.

Second job, permanent, and I quickly saw a >20% increase in health insurance costs directly related to Obamacare.

I have a hard time believing that Obamacare, for anygood it may do, will ever lower costs.

Most dems and repubs would likely agree that healthcare overhauls was needed prior to Obamacare. Most repubs simply felt that Obamacare was the wrong answer and it is increasingly appearing that they were right.

Sure beats doing nothing, which is what the Republicans did when they had a chance to reform health care their way. Even if you are right and it's the wrong answer, it started the process of eliminating wrong answers and making forward progress towards the right answer, instead of sitting around doing nothing. If Obamacare's only accomplishment is demonstrating that individual insurance mandate is a bad idea, it's a major accomplishment. One reason health care reform was killed in the 90s because politicians couldn't agree between single payer system liberals offered, and individual mandate that conservatives were pushing back then. If Obamacare fails or USSC takes individual mandate off the table, then next time it's going to be a much simpler decision. Single payer (Medicare for all) or the status quo.

 

[Zorkorist]

Obama's "Health Care Plan" is no more that forcing young kids, that have no worries, to pay into the health care system.

It's a huge expansion on socialism and taxation.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

Where, or when will Obama tackle the lawyers, or the insurance companies, that make health care today so expensive?

No... he will attack America's youth.

-John

 

[xj0hnx]

I lean toward forcing people to buy health insurance as probably the most effective way to maintain freedom and provide health care to all.

huh? How do you figure that? Forcing people to buy something helps maintains freedom?

 

[PokerGuy]

Easy to be a naysayer, harder to come up with a plan, which is why GOP punted when they had a chance.

Logical fallacy: doing something bad is better than nothing at all. That's plain wrong. "punting" is not as good as fixing things, but it's better than screwing it up further.

 

[PokerGuy]

Uhmmm, policy studies always try to take into account the larger effects. I don't oppose gaining knowledge, I was just taking issue with the ridiculous idea that you put out about Congress creating this policy without studying the issue or getting professional input.

Your Iraq analogy is pretty poor, and that's not how Iraq policy was crafted.

His Iraq analogy is dead on, it's the usual government hubris and short sightedness, combined with a heaping helping of incompetence, ignorance and elitism. They think they know what the impact of things will be, but of course they don't, as time will surely show. Then they allow for absolutely no input into the process by the party representing roughly half the electorate, and completely ignore their needs. Then, we add a nice heaping helping of government red tape and regulations so unworkable that 90% of health care providers won't participate.

Yep, recipe for win. Unfortunately I have to give obummer and his crew some credit for being smart enough to know that they had to make sure the impact of his disaster would not be seen and felt by the American public until after he got re-elected, ensuring the mess will endure for decades.