Another nail in BB's coffin

[MrX8503]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

BlackBerry has the best email, reception and quality of any phone I have ever sold. And I have sold A LOT of different phones. The problem seems to be that they got stuck and for some reason couldn't inovate like Android or Apple did. Heck even Palm blew them out of the water in that regard.

It really is too bad. RIM had a great run with a really great product. They are just years behind now.

I think its because RIM depended on their one golden egg too heavily (email/security). While they were guarding their one golden egg, their hen house was being robbed behind their backs.

 

[alkemyst]

My company mandated all blackberries to be replaced by non-BB server types by next month. We deploy low tier WM devices, Androids and iPhones. All of them sync fine with Outlook. Only thing out associates have to do is remember to update their passwords on the device when they change them every 90days in the office.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

I really don't understand why people bring up anecdotal evidence as it means next to nothing. Just look at the stats and trends. I think the only thing that is keeping rim afloat is enterprise.

that and the fact that they nearly give their stuff away, which apple and android makers dont

 

[alkemyst]

BB requires a licensing fee per year per device. The iPhone and Android are not the main phones up against them. It's the free Windows Mobile phones that easily handle enterprise level Outlook and the like.

 

[vshah]

- Nothing remotely close to BBM. BBM is an amazing app, and no other platform has anything like it. We miss it, except she still carriers her 9700 around along with her iPhone, just for BBM.

google talk? as a messaging app i'd guess it's about the same. don't know about security or w/e though.

 

[Deeko]

google talk? as a messaging app i'd guess it's about the same. don't know about security or w/e though.

Google Talk on Android is definitely better than a lot of messaging apps, but BBM does have a lot of unique features.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Well heres' the news: iPhone is not ready for enterprise. Yeah, I said it.

Watching my wife struggle with her new iPhone after working for RIM for five years has been a real eye opener. Issues that suck for enterprise:

- No Calendar invites. iCal won't accept a regular invite, and you can't invite email contacts to an iCal event
- Need to log into the VPN constantly for email. If you don't remember to, you get no email. Unless you check you're on the VPN, you won't know your missing email.
- Nothing remotely close to BBM. BBM is an amazing app, and no other platform has anything like it. We miss it, except she still carriers her 9700 around along with her iPhone, just for BBM.

Maybe we're missing something, and someone can tell us how to avoid the above failings, but the experience is not fluid, consistent or as fast as BlackBerry. Enterprises need BlackBerry to get stuff done. People need iPhones to feel good about themselves and play Angry Birds.

ahhh... everything makes sense now.
your wife used to work for RIM.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

It does, yes, but "slow" data is only apparent with web browsing, as the servers are compressing images, etc, of the pages you're looking at. For email you can guarantee that is very, very fast. I always get mail on my BB before it turns up in Outlook.

The email speed on the iPhone is pretty good to send, but recieving is noticably slower in response. And this is on an iPhone on the Apple Inc. infrastructure, so it should be the finest example of an iPhone implementation.

so i see your company hasn't upgraded it's token ring network yet.

 

[Deeko]

ahhh... everything makes sense now.
your wife used to work for RIM.

He's pointed this out many, many times.

 

[tokie]

RIM's problem is that they are too afraid of starting over and losing their existing customer base. Nothing short of a complete platform reboot would allow them to compete with iPhone or Android or even Windows Phone 7. Microsoft went all in and did it. RIM needs to as well if they have any chance in the future. Comparing the Blackberry Torch to any modern Android or iPhone is like comparing a rotary dial phone to a touch tone phone. No matter how pretty you make the rotary phone, it still isn't as good, it needs to be abandoned.

This is laughable. Realistically, the only things that RIM are missing:

- use fast and modern ARM SoCs and higher resolution screens
- they need more polish on their consumer parts of phones, e.g. music and app store
- they need more app developers and quality apps/games, since apparently that is all people care about now

That's about all that I can think that separates Blackberries from the iPhone and Android. With BB6, these platforms are all WebKit based for the browsers. So there is no noticeable difference there. I also am a bit disillusioned with boosters of the iPhone. Things that the iPhone does now the Blackberry has done for years, like true multitasking and MMS. So in those things, you never saw BB owners calling iPhones "rotary dials".

Basically, give me a Blackberry 9700 with a touchscreen, a good ARM SoC and an improved BB6 with the changes I noted, and I think I would have the perfect phone.

 

[Deeko]

This is laughable. Realistically, the only things that RIM are missing:

- use fast and modern ARM SoCs and higher resolution screens
- they need more polish on their consumer parts of phones, e.g. music and app store
- they need more app developers and quality apps/games, since apparently that is all people care about now

That's about all that I can think that separates Blackberries from the iPhone and Android. With BB6, these platforms are all WebKit based for the browsers. So there is no noticeable difference there. I also am a bit disillusioned with boosters of the iPhone. Things that the iPhone does now the Blackberry has done for years, like true multitasking and MMS. So in those things, you never saw BB owners calling iPhones "rotary dials".

Basically, give me a Blackberry 9700 with a touchscreen, a good ARM SoC and an improved BB6 with the changes I noted, and I think I would have the perfect phone.

Its become geek-cool to hate Blackberry, you must understand. While there are legitimate complaints about the phones, they are excessively overblown here.

 

[vshah]

Google Talk on Android is definitely better than a lot of messaging apps, but BBM does have a lot of unique features.

i took a quick look at the rim site, the one notable feature i can see that gtalk on android doesn't have is picture sharing, which would be cool

 

[MrX8503]

This is laughable. Realistically, the only things that RIM are missing:

- use fast and modern ARM SoCs and higher resolution screens
- they need more polish on their consumer parts of phones, e.g. music and app store
- they need more app developers and quality apps/games, since apparently that is all people care about now

Uh, those things are kind of a big deal.

 

[DivideBYZero]

ahhh... everything makes sense now.
your wife used to work for RIM.

I've always been 100% transparent about this. You new here?

 

[DivideBYZero]

i took a quick look at the rim site, the one notable feature i can see that gtalk on android doesn't have is picture sharing, which would be cool

The big things you miss when you leave BBM are:

- Knowing a message has been delivered to the device
- Knowing a message has been read by the other party
- Voice notes
- Picture sharing
- Location sharing
- 'PING', i.e., making the target device vibrate to get their attention

That and the fact that it's very fast

 

[kaerflog]

This is laughable. Realistically, the only things that RIM are missing:

- use fast and modern ARM SoCs and higher resolution screens
- they need more polish on their consumer parts of phones, e.g. music and app store
- they need more app developers and quality apps/games, since apparently that is all people care about now

That's about all that I can think that separates Blackberries from the iPhone and Android. With BB6, these platforms are all WebKit based for the browsers. So there is no noticeable difference there. I also am a bit disillusioned with boosters of the iPhone. Things that the iPhone does now the Blackberry has done for years, like true multitasking and MMS. So in those things, you never saw BB owners calling iPhones "rotary dials".

Basically, give me a Blackberry 9700 with a touchscreen, a good ARM SoC and an improved BB6 with the changes I noted, and I think I would have the perfect phone.

Thats like saying the only thing that differentiate the Scion tC and the G35 coupe is a better engine, nicer interior cause they both look similiar.
-Better soc, bigger screen, higher resolution and better apps is pretty much what seperate a modern smartphone to an old one.

 

[vshah]

The big things you miss when you leave BBM are:

- Knowing a message has been delivered to the device
- Knowing a message has been read by the other party
- Voice notes
- Picture sharing
- Location sharing
- 'PING', i.e., making the target device vibrate to get their attention

That and the fact that it's very fast

ah, cool...thanks

 

[Deeko]

Thats like saying the only thing that differentiate the Scion tC and the G35 coupe is a better engine, nicer interior cause they both look similiar.
-Better soc, bigger screen, higher resolution and better apps is pretty much what seperate a modern smartphone to an old one.

The first three are very easy to fix, though. Granted its puzzling that the Torch lacked them, it would be very easy for them to beef up the internals in the next BB phone. The BB OS, while not as pretty, is still very capable. Rumors of RIM's death have been greatly exaggerated.

 

[cronos]

The big things you miss when you leave BBM are:

- Knowing a message has been delivered to the device
- Knowing a message has been read by the other party
- Voice notes
- Picture sharing
- Location sharing
- 'PING', i.e., making the target device vibrate to get their attention

That and the fact that it's very fast

It really sucks that there's no cheap/prepaid option for BIS here in the US* because if there's one thing I'm intrigued about with BB, it's BBM.

Just out of curiosity, can we turn off the 'read confirmation' on BBM? Delivery confirmation is fine but 'read confirmation' is something that I always turn off if the option exists.


*The cheapest option I can find is Virgin Mobile for $35/month, and it's still too much just for BBM (not to mention the marked-up price of the non-GSM BB handset that has to be Virgin branded and can't be used anywhere else).

 

[uli2000]

RIM won't die, it will evolve. A number of years back, RIM had a Windows Mobile application that let you recieve Blackberry Mail on a Windows Mobile phone. Unfortunatly, it was one way only and didn't let you reply. They showed Blackberry Application Suite, also for WM, last year at some wireless trade shows, but it's kinda disapeared. It basically emulated a Blackberry on a WM device with full functionality. If they release something similar for iOS and Android, corporate IT departments could continue to use BES and have the security of Blackberry email while allowing users to have the devices they want.

 

[MrX8503]

The big things you miss when you leave BBM are:

- Knowing a message has been delivered to the device
- Knowing a message has been read by the other party
- Voice notes
- Picture sharing
- Location sharing
- 'PING', i.e., making the target device vibrate to get their attention

That and the fact that it's very fast

There are apps that are close to doing everything that you're stating. Plus the apps will be available on BB, Android, and iOS. So its going to be Instant Message for all.

The apps I'm taking about is Whatsapp and Ping Chat. They're not quite yet there yet, but eventually it will best BBM. Another benefit of these apps is that you can share video as well. It also incorporates group chats and shows the other user that you're typing.

I can't remember which app, but one of them also allows BB users to keep their ID as well. BBM is cool, but there will be an app that will replace it, especially if you can instant message any phone.

 

[Deeko]

There are apps that are close to doing everything that you're stating. Plus the apps will be available on BB, Android, and iOS. So its going to be Instant Message for all.

The apps I'm taking about is Whatsapp and Ping Chat. They're not quite yet there yet, but eventually it will best BBM. Another benefit of these apps is that you can share video as well. It also incorporates group chats and shows the other user that you're typing.

I can't remember which app, but one of them also allows BB users to keep their ID as well. BBM is cool, but there will be an app that will replace it, especially if you can instant message any phone.

"Will be" is a cute term. Who is to say by then, there won't be a Blackberry with specs to compete with the latest Android/iOS devices?

 

[MrX8503]

"Will be" is a cute term. Who is to say by then, there won't be a Blackberry with specs to compete with the latest Android/iOS devices?

If BB is allowed to have unpolished hardware, I'm sure having a few apps in the appstore that isn't quite polished is ok.

 

[sjwaste]

BB requires a licensing fee per year per device. The iPhone and Android are not the main phones up against them. It's the free Windows Mobile phones that easily handle enterprise level Outlook and the like.

This is absolutely correct. Reread Alky's message if you need to.

WM is the only serious enterprise alternative to BB. And that's because Microsoft is much cheaper to deploy on the server side, while the devices themselves are ubiquitous and cheap. Not because it's at all better. Is it a great experience? I didn't love it - I was with a large consulting firm when they decided to go from BB to WM for all consulting staff. I'm sure we saved a bundle, but the interface was lacking.

Governments, law firms, financial firms, etc. Organizations who place a premium on security and reliability are still sticking with BB. Nothing else is ready for prime time.

 

[DivideBYZero]

There are apps that are close to doing everything that you're stating. Plus the apps will be available on BB, Android, and iOS. So its going to be Instant Message for all.

The apps I'm taking about is Whatsapp and Ping Chat. They're not quite yet there yet, but eventually it will best BBM. Another benefit of these apps is that you can share video as well. It also incorporates group chats and shows the other user that you're typing.

I can't remember which app, but one of them also allows BB users to keep their ID as well. BBM is cool, but there will be an app that will replace it, especially if you can instant message any phone.

I use whatsapp on my BB and my wife's iPhone, and it's pretty cool, but it's flaky and fails to deliver messages at the iPhone end on a regular basis. BBM is 100% bulletproof. Whatsapp is not. It's the best alternative, however.