*waiting for the Grand Imperial Dragon of the Order of Asshats. ... I mean, MinorityReport, to come on in and continue his dissertation on how lax gun control in Washington, DC has made crime rates sky-rocket*
You can have 1000 snipers and 1 million killed by guns in one day and people who support the NRA would still stick by their sad beliefs. Gun nuts just don't get it and never ever will. :disgust:
Who's sad are the control freaks who think removing guns from the hands of law-abiding citizens is going to reduce gun crime.
It's illegal to murder. The sniper broke that law many times over. Do you think he cares about gun laws? Logic, please.
Lets see, a watch is used to tell time, a sofa to sit on, and a microwave to heat foods. A gun is used to kill things (people or animals). Hmm...lets make the connection here.
Tell time==kill things
Comfy place to sit==kill things
Heat food==kill things
Yeah I see those connections. Nice argument there.
I do agree with the fact that people will continue to kill each other even all guns are gone. Just that guns make it real damn easy.
What was that quote I recently saw:
"The National Rifle Association says that guns don't kill people, people do, but I think the gun helps"
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,118
- 18,646
- 146
Fact: You cannot un-invent a thing.
Guns exist. You can ban them, hate them, create a police state in an attempt to get all of them, but they are a technology that is hundreds of years old. Just as with drugs, banning and confiscating guns will do nothing to stop criminally minded people from obtaining them with relative ease.
Now, that fact presented, would you rather live in a world in which only criminals have guns? Or would you accept the necessary evil of owning a gun to protect yourself and your family?
BTW, gun bans have rarely if ever resulted in lower crime.
Compare crime rates of all the countries that have made guns illegal with the crime rates of all the countries that haven't, then say there is no difference.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
This thread reminded me to become a member. the way some of you people think without presenting proof or any logical explination of gun bans ruduceing crime scares me more than any neighbor owning a sub-machine gun/..
Put your money where your mouth is
Put your money where your mouth is
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
This thread reminded me to become a member. the way some of you people think without presenting proof or any logical explination of gun bans ruduceing crime scares me more than any neighbor owning a sub-machine gun/..
Put your money where your mouth is
I'm a 'Life Member!'
Please look at all my posts and see if I state anywhere guns should be banned. If you find one, please point it out so I am aware of it.
ditto
Let me tell you there are none (zero) state gun laws where I reside only federal law applies and I can tell you first hand there no shootings on TV here every night, no car jackings, the population is armed here, crime is low. I lived in CA for the last 12 years and I can't think of a day where there wans't at least a shooting on the news if not a few, and CA is full of gun laws to "protect" you. Another example to follow the DC is so safe since the guns are not legal there is NYC, they are banned there too and you don't ever see shootings huh? Must be a band of crazy police since they are the only ones allowed to have guns right? If you are so for gun control why don't you put a sign on your front yard...." I support gun control and have no firearms, my protection is the police" no one will break in you will be fine.
more people get killed by drunk divers than by any gun, I guess thats why they made alcohal illegal, oh wait they didn't.
I don't see why people make a big fuss about crimes with a gun, would it have gotten this much publicity if these were all hit and runs. I guess we shouldn't be allowed to drive cars either.
any crazy person has a number of ways in which he can go on a killing spree. outlawing guns won't stop them, just make them go and find other ways to do it, possibly cheaper too.
I don't see why people make a big fuss about crimes with a gun, would it have gotten this much publicity if these were all hit and runs. I guess we shouldn't be allowed to drive cars either.
any crazy person has a number of ways in which he can go on a killing spree. outlawing guns won't stop them, just make them go and find other ways to do it, possibly cheaper too.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,562
- 9
- 81
People that are scared of guns don't understand them. They have no idea how they work, they're magical devices in their eyes. You pull a trigger and somebody dies.
A gun at it's simplest form simply uses an explosion in a confined area to hurl a projectile at high speed. Let's say that guns do get banned and they are successfully removed from the populace, even illegal ones are somehow confiscated. People will still die from gun crimes. It will only be a short time before homemade guns become the norm. A gun isn't magic, it's a rather simple device that could be built in your basement.
So banning guns isn't even a partial solution to murder. Why don't you take all the money and time you spend demonizing guns, and use that instead to get at the root of the problem: poor upbringing and mental disorders.
A gun at it's simplest form simply uses an explosion in a confined area to hurl a projectile at high speed. Let's say that guns do get banned and they are successfully removed from the populace, even illegal ones are somehow confiscated. People will still die from gun crimes. It will only be a short time before homemade guns become the norm. A gun isn't magic, it's a rather simple device that could be built in your basement.
So banning guns isn't even a partial solution to murder. Why don't you take all the money and time you spend demonizing guns, and use that instead to get at the root of the problem: poor upbringing and mental disorders.
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,118
- 18,646
- 146
OK, let's do that. In the UK, the crime rate surpassed that of the US just a few years ago. Their crime rate is higher in all areas excluding murder. However, their murder rate is lower across all modes except poisoning. Were gun bans alone the reason for the lower murder rate, we'd see comparable rates in bludgeoning, beating and stabbing death rates. We do not. Those rates are lower as well, suggesting another cause for the lower murder rate.
One interesting this though, the UK's murder by gun rate went up after the last, most strict gun control laws were passed.
In fact, as of the last decade, many countries with gun bans have had crime rate surpassing that of the US.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
This is so true. I work with a couple PhD scientist types, guys who have never seen a gun, and who gave me the "look" when told them about the guns I own and my weekly hunting/camping trips.. Well about two years ago I basically begged them to come to show them what it's all about and now they are fanatics. One even has his own reloader which I borrow somtimes
Anyway ingnorance is no excuse, make it your misson to get anti-gun friends involved but leave the cammys in the closet.
I have to comment on a few things in this thread...
"there is a reason Hitler avoided Switzerland"...there is, and it had NOTHING to do with the fact that most homes in Switzerland had guns...you should try to read a bit more before you make comments like that...I love it, a gun-advocate saying that a country avoided a Nazi takeover because they didn't have gun control laws..at least that is a new one...
"35 - 40% of the adult US population owns a firearm. Some NRA members have never owned firearms and have no plans to. Many gun owners are not NRA members."
Is that 35-40 just something you pulled out of your A, or is that a good estimate? Seems high to me, but I could be wrong.
Why would someone be a member of the NRA and not own a gun?
Do you think the creators of the NRA envisioned it having the role it does now?
"there is a reason Hitler avoided Switzerland"...there is, and it had NOTHING to do with the fact that most homes in Switzerland had guns...you should try to read a bit more before you make comments like that...I love it, a gun-advocate saying that a country avoided a Nazi takeover because they didn't have gun control laws..at least that is a new one...
"35 - 40% of the adult US population owns a firearm. Some NRA members have never owned firearms and have no plans to. Many gun owners are not NRA members."
Is that 35-40 just something you pulled out of your A, or is that a good estimate? Seems high to me, but I could be wrong.
Why would someone be a member of the NRA and not own a gun?
Do you think the creators of the NRA envisioned it having the role it does now?
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
- Feb 24, 2001
- 14,513
- 4
- 81
IIRC it's like 65 million gun owners in the US, and like 200+ mil guns. Just heard it tossed around on the radio frequently and on different places, not 100% sure.
Just because someone supports gun rights doesn't mean they feel the need to own a gun. Like supporting the rights of others to do it, but they have little kids and don't think it's worth the risk to bring it into their own house.
A lot?
Every area that has banned guns has had crime rates go up./q]
NRA = Al Queda ( thats my opinion why you give a damm what I think)[/quote]
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
I find it amusing that the anti-gun wackos in this forum are comparing the NRA to a terrorist organization, when in reality they are the foremost leader in promoting firearm safety.
The weapons safety training classes and documentation that the NRA practically gives away to new gun owners have probably saved more lives than any anti-gun leglislation that the government ever released.
I think that some people in this forum need to take a riflery class, so they can get an clue as to what the NRA is really about. They certainly do a lot more than just lobby Congress to vote against gun control, but it seems that's all that the news organizations seem to promote about them.
The weapons safety training classes and documentation that the NRA practically gives away to new gun owners have probably saved more lives than any anti-gun leglislation that the government ever released.
I think that some people in this forum need to take a riflery class, so they can get an clue as to what the NRA is really about. They certainly do a lot more than just lobby Congress to vote against gun control, but it seems that's all that the news organizations seem to promote about them.
Its actually thought to be quite conservative. Due to the sensitivity of gun possession and lack of any method to know precisely just who and how many US residents own the estimated 200 - 300 million firearms in private possession (for good reason), attempts to quantify the gun-owning population have largely been limited to anonymous polling and surveys. Dozens have been done and the consensus seems to be in the range of 35 - 40%. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms has cited estimates exceeding 40%. I deliberately avoided the more liberal estimates.
Not just a member of the NRA, how about a life ENDOWMENT member who doesn't own a gun and doesn't intend to in the near future?
I know many, and have met many, individuals who are not particularly "into" guns, though they may have had a gun in the house or hunted when they were growing-up, do not own a firearm as an adult because they don't feel any immediate 'need' or 'desire' to own a firearm, or are concerned about having guns in their home with their children, but strongly believe the Constitution of the United States guarantees to them the right to own one if they should ever find it necessary or desirable to do so, and do not believe that firearms 'cause' people to commit crimes any more than cars 'cause' people to drive drunk, and who feel that gun control is a misguided if not dangerous attempt to read a plainly asserted right straight out of the Bill of Rights under the premise that 'its an old piece of paper that doesn't really mean much anymore and so we should just ignore the parts of it we don't like'.
I don't know. I interpret your question to mean: Do I believe that the founders of the NRA envisioned that the NRA would be forced to take such an aggressive political role to defend a right from attack that, at the time of the NRA's founding, was widely valued and practiced?
I can't answer that. I don't know if they envisioned the current political and legal realities.
If you meant, would the founders of the NRA approve of the leading role in defending gun rights the NRA has been forced to take? Absofvckinglutely.
Yeah, the first thing one should do before giving advice is to observe it themselves (Physician, heal thyself, first):
Target Switzerland: Commentary by Stephen P. Halbrook
Target Switzerland: Book Review by David Kopel
Target Switzerland: Swiss Armed Neutrality in World War by Stephen P. Halbrook
Swiss Mess: Homeland Defense...the Wrong Way
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,118
- 18,646
- 146
Do you know how Switzerland protects itself? They have a citizen militia in which every able bodied man is trained in the military and keeps his weapon in his home. The majority of homes in Swizerland had/have firearms in them.
Hitler DID consider invading Switzerland. In the summer of 1940, the German High Command had at least three active plans for outflanking France's Maginot Line, by invading Switzerland. A month after the fall of France, in June, 1940, Hitler's and Mussolini's high commands prepared plan `von Menges,' under which Germany would seize the northern two thirds of Switzerland, while Fascist Italy annexed the portion south of the Alps. The reason they decided not to? Switzerland's powerfully armed citizen militia would exact too heavy of a toll on the German army.
It's the same reason a grizzly bear wont attack a badger if he doesn't have to. Sure, the grizzly could kill the badger, but not without getting seriously hurt.
As for the rest, well... you've been more than owned. Maybe you should read a bit yourself?
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