Another business in California closes its doors

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Ldir
The fact of the matter with California is that businesses are leaving b/c the environment to conduct business there is horrible. You have regulations, over the top taxes, etc... Do you know how much it costs for a permit to build a house here? over $100,000...

HAHAHAAHA. Are you seriously claiming it costs over 100,000 to get the permits to build a house in California???

More to the point is that California has been the hardest hit state by outsourcing. And idiots who claim that if we could just lower wages or ease up on pollution regulations are just that, idiots.
Jobs are going to China because the people there make the same in a week as Americans make in a couple of hours. In China you can pour poison on the streets and if your workers get sick and die from your negligence you just go out an hire some more desperate people.
We are CIVILIZED in America. We don't want our kids and ourselves to die needlessly from poisons in our air and water.
And since brutal dictatorships don't care if their people die we will always be at a disadvantage in competing on price in America.
So don't blame California for the loss of jobs. Blame the Bushies and big business that will send EVERY job possible to wherever it can be done cheapest. Its not malevolence, its just pure capitalism with out restraint.
Which is why the country must ACT to save its economic future.

Does anyone here remember the 1986 economic sanctions against South Africa because of apartheid? With few exceptions we practically stopped all trade and boycotted their economy because of human rights abuses.

Are we CIVILIZED enough today to boycott the countries that exploit their people and have grave human rights abuses by refusing to do business with them or buy their cheap products?

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: 1prophet

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Ldir
The fact of the matter with California is that businesses are leaving b/c the environment to conduct business there is horrible. You have regulations, over the top taxes, etc... Do you know how much it costs for a permit to build a house here? over $100,000...

HAHAHAAHA. Are you seriously claiming it costs over 100,000 to get the permits to build a house in California???

More to the point is that California has been the hardest hit state by outsourcing. And idiots who claim that if we could just lower wages or ease up on pollution regulations are just that, idiots.
Jobs are going to China because the people there make the same in a week as Americans make in a couple of hours. In China you can pour poison on the streets and if your workers get sick and die from your negligence you just go out an hire some more desperate people.
We are CIVILIZED in America. We don't want our kids and ourselves to die needlessly from poisons in our air and water.
And since brutal dictatorships don't care if their people die we will always be at a disadvantage in competing on price in America.
So don't blame California for the loss of jobs. Blame the Bushies and big business that will send EVERY job possible to wherever it can be done cheapest. Its not malevolence, its just pure capitalism with out restraint.
Which is why the country must ACT to save its economic future.

Does anyone here remember the 1986 economic sanctions against South Africa because of apartheid? With few exceptions we practically stopped all trade and boycotted their economy because of human rights abuses.

Are we CIVILIZED enough today to boycott the countries that exploit their people and have grave human rights abuses by refusing to do business with them or buy their cheap products?

And see this thread about how the Chinese are massacring their own people when they try to exercise some rights:
Armed with guns and shields, hundreds of riot police sealed off a southern Chinese village after fatally shooting as many as 10 demonstrators and were searching for the protest organizers, villagers said Friday.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05

Originally posted by: ntdz
The fact of the matter with California is that businesses are leaving b/c the environment to conduct business there is horrible. You have regulations, over the top taxes, etc... Do you know how much it costs for a permit to build a house here? over $100,000...

Really?!?!? Building permit costs in Shasta,California.....

http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/Departments/Resourcemgmt/drm/bldg.htm

Including zoning and all that stuff, the permit fees are ridiculous.

Why do the Bush faithful have so much trouble admitting they were wrong about something?

Using Shasta as an example, the building permit for a half-million dollar house is $2,800 -- 0.56%. You don't hit your "$100,000" until the cost of the development hits $35.5 million -- 0.28%. Next ...

 

[fornax]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
Are we CIVILIZED enough today to boycott the countries that exploit their people and have grave human rights abuses by refusing to do business with them or buy their cheap products?

Of course not. South Africa had a very small amount of trade with us even before the sanctions, and they did no hold any of our debt. China brings our business owners billins upon billions of savings and they could cause us serious trouble if they put some effort into it. Y

ou should know by now that killings, exploitation, slavery-like working conditions, poisonous work environment, etc. are not good enough reasons not to trade with China. The important thing is they lends us the money to waste on foreign wars and welfare to the millionairs, whereas we buy their crap to sell and make more money for the same millionairs.

China and the USA are now so closely linked that neither can afford to lose the other partner. We'll suffer a lot and the dollar will be worthless if China calls on its debt or even stops lending us that much. They'll lose the main export destination and all their US dollar holdings will also be worthless. Although, I might add, they have invested a lot of them in science and technology and may come out better in the long run.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ntdz
California's govt is pathetic. Arnold is doing all he can to try and fix it, but the democratic legislature and idiot voters who vote against all his proposals undermine him.

Arnold's a pathetic sell out who ran claiming he wouldn't take any money from special interests because he was already rich enough not to need the money. Then, he turned right around and took in more money in his short, inept time in office than Gray Davis did in his entire career. :|

 

[5150Joker]

California has turned into a state where only large corporations can conduct business here. Mom and pop shops that once used to enjoy the ability to run a small business and provide a more personal atmosphere for their customers are being phased out in favor of mega corporations. The reason this is happening is because of liberal Democrats that have introduced an insurmountable amount of ridiculous legislation. Just to give you people an example, we own a gas station business and a few years back we had to replace every single underground single walled steel tank for a double walled fiber glass tank that cost an upward of $100k per station. Now they are requiring every single gas station have a monitoring system in place which is fine but now there's another law out that says you have to install pans underneath each gas pump in case a few drips of gasoline fall out. Common sense dictates that gas is volatile enough to dry up fairly quick if you drop a few drips of it but these environmental whackos don't care about that. The silly part is the state doesn't allow the owner to install these systems themselves - they have to hire a specialized contractor that charge $20,000+ just to install a pan underneath your pump.

That is the type of legislation that is causing small businesses to fold because they can't stay in the black when you constantly have new regulatory legislation being churned out by liberal Dems that are out of touch with the average Joe. California will survive, but only professionals like doctors, lawyers, engineers etc will be able to afford a decent place to live while the businesses are run by large corporations. Hopefully other states (especially conservative ones) see the destructive path California has taken and take steps to avoid it happening to them. As a CLS/MT that is applying to medical school, I know there is no way I'll be coming back to this state to practice - it's cost of living is abnormally high vs. the pay you receive. Don't let those liberals that live here fool you, California is a failing liberal experiment.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
California has turned into a state where only large corporations can conduct business here. Mom and pop shops that once used to enjoy the ability to run a small business and provide a more personal atmosphere for their customers are being phased out in favor of mega corporations. The reason this is happening is because of liberal Democrats that have introduced an insurmountable amount of ridiculous legislation. Just to give you people an example, we own a gas station business and a few years back we had to replace every single underground single walled steel tank for a double walled fiber glass tank that cost an upward of $100k per station. Now they are requiring every single gas station have a monitoring system in place which is fine but now there's another law out that says you have to install pans underneath each gas pump in case a few drips of gasoline fall out. Common sense dictates that gas is volatile enough to dry up fairly quick if you drop a few drips of it but these environmental whackos don't care about that. The silly part is the state doesn't allow the owner to install these systems themselves - they have to hire a specialized contractor that charge $20,000+ just to install a pan underneath your pump.

That is the type of legislation that is causing small businesses to fold because they can't stay in the black when you constantly have new regulatory legislation being churned out by liberal Dems that are out of touch with the average Joe. California will survive, but only professionals like doctors, lawyers, engineers etc will be able to afford a decent place to live while the businesses are run by large corporations. Hopefully other states (especially conservative ones) see the destructive path California has taken and take steps to avoid it happening to them. As a CLS/MT that is applying to medical school, I know there is no way I'll be coming back to this state to practice - it's cost of living is abnormally high vs. the pay you receive. Don't let those liberals that live here fool you, California is a failing liberal experiment.

Bullsh8! What kind of businesses are going to survive when all the living, breathing potential customers are dead and dying from pollution.

Typical "trickle down economics" garbage! :|

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ntdz

Originally posted by: Sysbuilder05

Originally posted by: ntdz
The fact of the matter with California is that businesses are leaving b/c the environment to conduct business there is horrible. You have regulations, over the top taxes, etc... Do you know how much it costs for a permit to build a house here? over $100,000...

Really?!?!? Building permit costs in Shasta,California.....

http://www.co.shasta.ca.us/Departments/Resourcemgmt/drm/bldg.htm

Including zoning and all that stuff, the permit fees are ridiculous.

Why do the Bush faithful have so much trouble admitting they were wrong about something?

Using Shasta as an example, the building permit for a half-million dollar house is $2,800 -- 0.56%. You don't hit your "$100,000" until the cost of the development hits $35.5 million -- 0.28%. Next ...

That's one permit fee buddy, there are dozens of others. For example, sewer permit fees, etc... BTW, each county varies, as permit fees are a county by county difference.

Here's a small example. http://www.modestogov.com/forms/pdf/bds_com_permit-estimate.pdf

Sewer hookup here is $15,000...

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
California has turned into a state where only large corporations can conduct business here. Mom and pop shops that once used to enjoy the ability to run a small business and provide a more personal atmosphere for their customers are being phased out in favor of mega corporations. The reason this is happening is because of liberal Democrats that have introduced an insurmountable amount of ridiculous legislation. Just to give you people an example, we own a gas station business and a few years back we had to replace every single underground single walled steel tank for a double walled fiber glass tank that cost an upward of $100k per station. Now they are requiring every single gas station have a monitoring system in place which is fine but now there's another law out that says you have to install pans underneath each gas pump in case a few drips of gasoline fall out. Common sense dictates that gas is volatile enough to dry up fairly quick if you drop a few drips of it but these environmental whackos don't care about that. The silly part is the state doesn't allow the owner to install these systems themselves - they have to hire a specialized contractor that charge $20,000+ just to install a pan underneath your pump.

That is the type of legislation that is causing small businesses to fold because they can't stay in the black when you constantly have new regulatory legislation being churned out by liberal Dems that are out of touch with the average Joe. California will survive, but only professionals like doctors, lawyers, engineers etc will be able to afford a decent place to live while the businesses are run by large corporations. Hopefully other states (especially conservative ones) see the destructive path California has taken and take steps to avoid it happening to them. As a CLS/MT that is applying to medical school, I know there is no way I'll be coming back to this state to practice - it's cost of living is abnormally high vs. the pay you receive. Don't let those liberals that live here fool you, California is a failing liberal experiment.

That was because of the MTBE crap that was forced into the gasoline and caused a lot of problems. I do blame the state legislature and the environmentist for this but clean air is very important. They chose to not listen to the science as there were alternatives to MTBE.
Anyway, here is a recent report on the business climate in California
Some Business Journal on the current State of California

as you can see, California has added jobs but at a slower rate than last year. Some businesses may leave but others will take over and succeed or fail in this environment. Sales tax is up, personal income is up, and the state budget looks better.
It is interesting that construction jobs lead the way as the fastest growing sector. You would think that if permit costs were prohibitive, then construction would suffer. Housing price has cooled but I think it will be a soft landing.

again, you can slam California but really, California mirrors the country in economic indicators.

 

[IdaGno]

Originally posted by: Genx87
California is a great experiment for the rest of the country. As it fails lets hope the rest of the country takes note and doesnt allow the same to happen to their state.

Jeff Spicoli: So what Jefferson was saying was "Hey! You know, we left this England place because it was bogus. So if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too."

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/9338/spicoli.htm

 

[marincounty]

I was just reading in this morning's paper how this business owner, who made surboard foam blanks, had undercut and driven all of his local competitors out of business, then when he fails, it impacts a bunch of small businesses.
Rather than condemning California's legislature and business climate, I think this is a perfect example of scorched earth, win at all costs, free market right-wing capitalism at its finest.
And if California is going down the tubes, as so many of you think, why is it that the real estate prices keep skyrocketing, and people are still trying to move here? Because it is the most beautiful state, has great weather, great schools and universities, great medical care, etc..
As for Arnold's policies, borrowing more money to run the state, without cutting spending or raising taxes, it is a page out of the Bush administration's playbook.

Finally, without all of the smart UC Berkeley and Stanford students out here, you guys would still be using adding machines and your pc would be but a dream.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
California has turned into a state where only large corporations can conduct business here. Mom and pop shops that once used to enjoy the ability to run a small business and provide a more personal atmosphere for their customers are being phased out in favor of mega corporations. The reason this is happening is because of liberal Democrats that have introduced an insurmountable amount of ridiculous legislation. Just to give you people an example, we own a gas station business and a few years back we had to replace every single underground single walled steel tank for a double walled fiber glass tank that cost an upward of $100k per station. Now they are requiring every single gas station have a monitoring system in place which is fine but now there's another law out that says you have to install pans underneath each gas pump in case a few drips of gasoline fall out. Common sense dictates that gas is volatile enough to dry up fairly quick if you drop a few drips of it but these environmental whackos don't care about that. The silly part is the state doesn't allow the owner to install these systems themselves - they have to hire a specialized contractor that charge $20,000+ just to install a pan underneath your pump.

That is the type of legislation that is causing small businesses to fold because they can't stay in the black when you constantly have new regulatory legislation being churned out by liberal Dems that are out of touch with the average Joe. California will survive, but only professionals like doctors, lawyers, engineers etc will be able to afford a decent place to live while the businesses are run by large corporations. Hopefully other states (especially conservative ones) see the destructive path California has taken and take steps to avoid it happening to them. As a CLS/MT that is applying to medical school, I know there is no way I'll be coming back to this state to practice - it's cost of living is abnormally high vs. the pay you receive. Don't let those liberals that live here fool you, California is a failing liberal experiment.

Bullsh8! What kind of businesses are going to survive when all the living, breathing potential customers are dead and dying from pollution.

Typical "trickle down economics" garbage! :|

Actually, what he posted is absolutely true. The saddest doublethink of all amongst the neo-libs is that they think they hate the megacorps while at the same time creating the overburdening legislation and regulations that make it impossible for any businesses but the megacorps to survive. It's the neo-libs who are killing small business and who are building the Wal-Marts. Who else can pay the fees and afford the fines? Who else can afford the HR to wade through the bureaucratic nightmare? Who else can afford the litigations? Who else can pay the bribes to corrupt populist politicians who have been overempowered by shortsighted uninformed emotional voters?

Here's a question for you: how are people are going to survive when they are no longer allowed to do business? This isn't trickle-down, fool, this is flow up. Small business feeds America.

The problem I have found with you shortsighted uninformed and emotional types is that you never consider the cost, and how the cost will affect those who actually have to pay it. You preach community while fscking your neighbor over every damned day -- proud to do it too 'cause the bastard deserves it, right?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty
I was just reading in this morning's paper how this business owner, who made surboard foam blanks, had undercut and driven all of his local competitors out of business, then when he fails, it impacts a bunch of small businesses.
Rather than condemning California's legislature and business climate, I think this is a perfect example of scorched earth, win at all costs, free market right-wing capitalism at its finest.

It never fails to amaze me how idiot socialists like yourself think that it's evil for a company to benefit its customers with low costs and prices.

FYI: the skyrocketing of CA's real estate prices has had nothing to do with people moving into the state, or any particular attractive feature of the state. And that skyrocketing is going to end VERY soon. The major mortgage lenders and investors are just about done with the fraud, buy-back, and default rates in CA. I don't believe there will be a real estate bubble in most of the country, but there will be in the overpriced markets of CA... again. Count on it. The only thing that bugs me about it is the knowledge that it will spur another exodus.

And the PC would still have been invented without Cal or Stanford. If it didn't happen one place, it would have happened in another. It was a chain of events -- a culmination -- not a single event.

 

[marincounty]

quote:
It never fails to amaze me how idiot socialists like yourself think that it's evil for a company to benefit its customers with low costs and price
___________________________________________________________
Just because I live in California doesn't make me a socialist, just like how you living in Oregon doesn't automatically make you an ignorant backwoods redneck.
Free market capitalism allows all kinds of abuse, all lawful, that is not good business.
First of all, the business in question, Clark Foam, was located in heavily
Republican Orange County. So if he had local problems he could work them out with the local officials. Second, the article in the SF Chronicle states "Government regulators said they were puzzled by his claim that environmental regulations drove him to close shop. 'I thought his(closing down the business) was an excessive response,' said Merchant (EPA spokesman).
'There were no emissions violations, so in that sense it wasn't a major citation.
This agency also understands complicance can be costly and difficult, and we have an assistance program to help people out. Shutting down businesses in not our goal.'
Also quoted is Mark Massara, a "well-known San Francisco big wave surfer and the director of the Sierra Club's California Coastal Program." "Clark spent four decades building a monopoly in foam blanks," said Massara. " He undercut all cometitors, and he froze out shapers(craftsmen who carve boards from the blanks) who used other sources. He was shipping a thousand blanks a day. There's nobody who can replace him."
So this guy builds his business in Socialist California, creates a monopoly, and then quits (72 years old) by his own choice, not because of government rules,
and of course it is the liberals fault.
____________________________
quote:
And the PC would still have been invented without Cal or Stanford. If it didn't happen one place, it would have happened in another. It was a chain of events -- a culmination -- not a single event.
______________________________

You're right, the PC still would have been invented without Cal or Stanford-
in about 20 years.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Just because I live in California doesn't make me a socialist, just like how you living in Oregon doesn't automatically make you an ignorant backwoods redneck.
Free market capitalism allows all kinds of abuse, all lawful, that is not good business.

I was not being prejudicidal to where you live. Your comments are entirely socialist in nature. Providing low costs and prices and serving your customers to the point that they choose you over your competition is never abuse nor ever bad business. Unless you're an elitist.

You're right, the PC still would have been invented without Cal or Stanford-
in about 20 years.

Hmm... this is funny. Because of the 4 people credited with inventing (or making possible) the PC, none of them graduated from either Cal or Stanford. (edit: excuse me, Steve Wozniak dropped out of Cal in 1975 but finished his degree in 1987 -- I don't think that counts).

 

[marincounty]

quote:
It never fails to amaze me how idiot socialists like yourself think that it's evil for a company to benefit its customers with low costs and prices.
____________________________________________________________
quote:

I was not being prejudicidal to where you live. Your comments are entirely socialist in nature. Providing low costs and prices and serving your customers to the point that they choose you over your competition is never abuse nor ever bad business. Unless you're an elitist
___________________________________________
So Walmart is good, by offering the lowest prices and wages and serving the customers. All of those small mom and pop businesses that they put out of business are socialists, and deserve to close.
And WorldCom under Bernie Ebbers, with all of its fake business reports caused an entire industry to implode, costing thousands of people their jobs, that's OK because it is capitalism. Free market capitalism has never worked. The shining example right wingers always like to point to-is Hong Kong, which has many, many people living in SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, because the great free market economy has priced them out of housing. Without their huge subsidies, they would have huge numbers of homeless. So they adopt a SOCIALIST policy, and provide housing for people.
_________________________
quote:
Hmm... this is funny. Because of the 4 people credited with inventing (or making possible) the PC, none of them graduated from either Cal or Stanford. (edit: excuse me, Steve Wozniak dropped out of Cal in 1975 but finished his degree in 1987 -- I don't think that counts).
_________________________________

I suppose that Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel,AMD, Nvidia, etc.. in California had nothing to do with the PC either, nor did they hire any of the Cal or Stanford grads. I suppose you think they all went to the University of Oregon or maybe North Carolina? Perhaps I should mention all of the food we socialists grow in California that feeds the rest of the country and world.
No, you're not an socialist idiot, you're a right wing a**hole.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote:
It never fails to amaze me how idiot socialists like yourself think that it's evil for a company to benefit its customers with low costs and prices.
____________________________________________________________
quote:

I was not being prejudicidal to where you live. Your comments are entirely socialist in nature. Providing low costs and prices and serving your customers to the point that they choose you over your competition is never abuse nor ever bad business. Unless you're an elitist
___________________________________________
So Walmart is good, by offering the lowest prices and wages and serving the customers. All of those small mom and pop businesses that they put out of business are socialists, and deserve to close.
And WorldCom under Bernie Ebbers, with all of its fake business reports caused an entire industry to implode, costing thousands of people their jobs, that's OK because it is capitalism. Free market capitalism has never worked. The shining example right wingers always like to point to-is Hong Kong, which has many, many people living in SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, because the great free market economy has priced them out of housing. Without their huge subsidies, they would have huge numbers of homeless. So they adopt a SOCIALIST policy, and provide housing for people.
_________________________
quote:
Hmm... this is funny. Because of the 4 people credited with inventing (or making possible) the PC, none of them graduated from either Cal or Stanford. (edit: excuse me, Steve Wozniak dropped out of Cal in 1975 but finished his degree in 1987 -- I don't think that counts).
_________________________________

I suppose that Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel,AMD, Nvidia, etc.. in California had nothing to do with the PC either, nor did they hire any of the Cal or Stanford grads. I suppose you think they all went to the University of Oregon or maybe North Carolina? Perhaps I should mention all of the food we socialists grow in California that feeds the rest of the country and world.
No, you're not an socialist idiot, you're a right wing a**hole.

Hey, thanks. And you're completely full of sh!t. Unable to come up with any workable argument, you grasp at strawmen. How can free market capitalism be a failure? Do you not believe in freedom? Do you think you'll still have political freedom when your economic freedom has been taken away? Do you think that the wealth you live in right now, relative to how people lived just a century ago, is not in anyway reflective of our free market economy?
And Wal-Mart is good -- for the mixed economy that we have now -- as I described in a post above in this very thread. As we do not currently live in anything resembling a free market capitalism, but in a mixed economy, Wal-Mart is what we receive as the type of corporate entity capable of suriviving and remaining competitive. Those mom-and-pops don't deserve to close, they simply are forced to close by the restrictive regulations that do not allow them to be competitive. Heh. I also find this argument from leftists to be amusing as a perfect example of their doublethinking, ideology-before-reality ignorance. There's so many factors you blind yourself to. Like, for example, do those mom-and-pops pay health benefits? Heh, that's only the tip of the iceberg.

Which, in your failure, is why you grasp at your strawmen. Comparing crime with freedom (it has been my experiences that authoritarians always believe that the absence of complete authoritarianism is the same as anarchy -- thank you for proving that once again with your Ebbers analogy), and a tiny crowded island colony with no natural resources as proof of the failure of an entire economic system. Of course, you'll just ignore how the rule of law still exists even with capitalism (so what WorldCom did would have been illegal even in the purest free market capitalism), and how socialism failed utterly in one of the most natural resource blessed countries on earth (USSR).

Just like you ignore that Intel has more employees in Oregon than any other single location on earth. So I guess they did all come from UO... 😛

edit: btw, n00b, there's a quote button. Use it.

 

[Quailane]

Originally posted by: Genx87
California is a great experiment for the rest of the country. As it fails lets hope the rest of the country takes note and doesnt allow the same to happen to their state.

Too bad california by itself is the world's 8th larget economy. That is a lot to experiment on righ there.

 

[marincounty]

Hey Vic,
You admit that we don't live in a free-market economy, so how is it not a failure.
It's been tried-ever hear of the great depression.
Funny how the people that live in those terrible Socialist countries like Finland and Sweden have higher literacy and a better quality of life on average. I've got news for, in spite of the name, the USSR was a communist country, not socialist.
And just because a huge multinational firm chose to build plants on cheap land and use cheap Oregon labor doesn't mean anything, they're building a plant in China now, better start looking for a job up there.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: marincounty
quote:
It never fails to amaze me how idiot socialists like yourself think that it's evil for a company to benefit its customers with low costs and prices.
____________________________________________________________
quote:

I was not being prejudicidal to where you live. Your comments are entirely socialist in nature. Providing low costs and prices and serving your customers to the point that they choose you over your competition is never abuse nor ever bad business. Unless you're an elitist
___________________________________________
So Walmart is good, by offering the lowest prices and wages and serving the customers. All of those small mom and pop businesses that they put out of business are socialists, and deserve to close.
And WorldCom under Bernie Ebbers, with all of its fake business reports caused an entire industry to implode, costing thousands of people their jobs, that's OK because it is capitalism. Free market capitalism has never worked. The shining example right wingers always like to point to-is Hong Kong, which has many, many people living in SUBSIDIZED HOUSING, because the great free market economy has priced them out of housing. Without their huge subsidies, they would have huge numbers of homeless. So they adopt a SOCIALIST policy, and provide housing for people.
_________________________
quote:
Hmm... this is funny. Because of the 4 people credited with inventing (or making possible) the PC, none of them graduated from either Cal or Stanford. (edit: excuse me, Steve Wozniak dropped out of Cal in 1975 but finished his degree in 1987 -- I don't think that counts).
_________________________________

I suppose that Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Intel,AMD, Nvidia, etc.. in California had nothing to do with the PC either, nor did they hire any of the Cal or Stanford grads. I suppose you think they all went to the University of Oregon or maybe North Carolina? Perhaps I should mention all of the food we socialists grow in California that feeds the rest of the country and world.
No, you're not an socialist idiot, you're a right wing a**hole.

Would you get off your high horse about California? I was born, raised, and still live in the Bay Area, and I can't stand people like you. Arrogant, liberal pricks. BTW, if you are going to talk about companies in California, at least get them right. IBM is headquarted in NY, not California.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Hey Vic,
You admit that we don't live in a free-market economy, so how is it not a failure.
It's been tried-ever hear of the great depression.
Funny how the people that live in those terrible Socialist countries like Finland and Sweden have higher literacy and a better quality of life on average. I've got news for, in spite of the name, the USSR was a communist country, not socialist.
And just because a huge multinational firm chose to build plants on cheap land and use cheap Oregon labor doesn't mean anything, they're building a plant in China now, better start looking for a job up there.

Finland and Sweden are totally free market, just like we are.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: marincounty
Hey Vic,
You admit that we don't live in a free-market economy, so how is it not a failure.
It's been tried-ever hear of the great depression.
Funny how the people that live in those terrible Socialist countries like Finland and Sweden have higher literacy and a better quality of life on average. I've got news for, in spite of the name, the USSR was a communist country, not socialist.
And just because a huge multinational firm chose to build plants on cheap land and use cheap Oregon labor doesn't mean anything, they're building a plant in China now, better start looking for a job up there.

The Great Depression was not caused by the free market, but by glaring mistakes by the Federal Reserve. You might want to brush up on your economic history.
The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was a communist socialism, thank you very much.
Finland and Sweden are not socialist countries, but mixed economies like the US.
The Intel land in Hillsboro, OR is not cheap and neither is the labor. Most of the jobs there are high-end high-paying R&D, and the fabs are state of the art.

Get back to me when you have a clue what you're talking about.

 

[marincounty]

Finland and Sweden are totally free market countries?
The reason I was talking up California, because some idiot called me an idiot socialist and said California was a socialist wasteland.
None of this is true.
And tell me again how the technology revolution happened without the Silicon Valley and California. I think IBM maintains research facilities in California, I never claimed they were based here.
The great depression was caused by adherence to free market principles, without proper checks and balances . You did notice that the solution to the great depression involved massive govt make work programs (socialism) and was successful.
Try and respond with facts, not personal attacks.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Dec. 8, 2005, 10:51PM

CUSTOM SURFBOARDS
Closing of foam block supplier could wipe out some retailers
Staying afloat will be harder
By GILLIAN FLACCUS
Associated Press

S AN CLEMENTE, CALIF. - For more than 40 years, everyone from weekend wave riders to top competitive surfers shared one thing: customized boards that began as nondescript foam blocks mass-produced by one Southern California company.

Clark Foam, an icon in California surf culture, enjoyed a virtual monopoly on the blocks that have been shaped and hand-painted by everyone from backyard do-it-yourselfers to design shops that churn out thousands of handcrafted boards each year.

That's why the company's sudden closure this week has the laid-back but thriving cottage industry fearing a wipeout.

Boards that cost between $300 and $800 have soared by as much as $200 at some smaller shops. Manufacturers are scrambling to secure the last supplies of the polyurethane foam blanks, customers are hoarding custom-made boards and thousands of specialty board shapers, air brushers and workers who coat boards with fiberglass face unemployment.

"Everybody's figuring how they're going to get on with their life," said Chris Mauro, editor of Surfer Magazine, which first broke the story on its Web site Tuesday. "There's probably a shortage of 2,000 boards a week globally now. It'll be months before things are back up to speed where any Joe Blow can get a blank ? maybe even years."

Clark Foam supplied the unshaped blanks for about 90 percent of all custom-made boards purchased worldwide ? and those boards make up nearly three-quarters of the total international market, said Bjorn Deboer of Stewart Surfboards, a major custom-made retailer and designer in San Clemente. The rest of the $200 million U.S. market is composed of machine-produced boards mostly churned out at factories in Asia and Eastern Europe.

A handful of small U.S. companies also produce foam, but Mauro said not in great enough quantities to fill the gap.

In a letter to customers Monday explaining his closure, company founder Gordon "Grubby" Clark said he has increasingly been in trouble with state and local government because of his nonstandard production machinery ? most of which he designed himself ? and his use of toxic and polluting chemicals.

He said he spent $500,000 in fire code fixes, another $400,000 defending himself against an employee's lawsuit and faced buying a multimillion-dollar scrubber to comply with emissions law. He also battled with the Environmental Protection Agency over pollution issues at his Laguna Niguel-based company.

Local and federal officials said Clark was in compliance with all laws and rejected the claim they were to blame for his demise.

Clark, who opened his company in 1961, revolutionized the surfboard in 1958 when he and surfing pioneer Hobie Alter poured resin over foam to create an all-foam board. The foam boards were durable, but had better flexibility than wooden boards that had previously been the hobby's standard.

Text

Another productive, job producing company bites the dust in CA. This place is going to be a complete socialist wasteland within 20 years if the bureaucrats and green eye shade boys keep it up. :thumbsup:

Sorry to see him go, but if he wasn't complying with the laws, I guess that's just too bad.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Another productive, job producing company bites the dust in CA. This place is going to be a complete socialist wasteland within 20 years if the bureaucrats and green eye shade boys keep it up. :thumbsup:

The only problem and factor the CA government fails to realize is that without companies to provide tax base and jobs their "ideal socialist democray" is not tenable. Pretty soon there won't be enough income in the state to allow 3 families to pool their funds and buy a house yet the ostriches think everything is fine.

California is just just fvcking fine. In fact, we would be doing a HELL of a lot better if all the other sh!thole states stopped taking our money.

CA gets back about 85 cents for every dollar we send to the Federal government.

I got a new idea, we keep all of our tens of billions of dollars of federal subsidies used to keep other states afloat.. and the rest of you can talk sh!t about us as much as you want.