Android UI discussion

[Eug]

lol true. Funny how it hasn't really changed that much.

Heheh. Thanks for reinforcing this point.

It's precisely this attitude which has held back Linux-on-the-desktop, and probably for a time, Android as well.

 

[halik]

Seriously? :|


I dunno, I think it makes a great deal of sense to move the menu button up for Calender since there's no other buttons on the bottom. This is a very, very weak complaint.

Huge no-no if you know anything about human factors. Inconsistent layouts make you scan the screen rather than use muscle memory to interface the system. Pitching your muscle memory against yourself is a surefire way to make mistakes.

 

[grkM3]

Not sure what you're getting at, buy my point was that before Android 4.0, the OS was quite behind iOS. It's a much closer race with 4.1.

Before 4.0, Google was emphasizing function, at the expense of form IMO. In 4.1 they're emphasizing both, which is what they should have been doing all along.

Let me ask you,would you take an iPhone 5 with iOS 6 or with jellybean source that the apple engineers could tweak and perfect it the way they'd like but also gave you full flexibility to do what ever you'd like with it also.

Basically would you take an iPhone 5 running android and let me know why you would or wouldn't use it.

 

[halik]

I think you have a point about inconsistencies, but I don't need little arrows to tell me how to use the "date picker." The faded out numbers above and below the selected number do a good job of telling you what to do without extraneous bits. Unless you're referring to something else.

The fading doesn't really give you any clue that it's spinable, since there's no 3d like effect that would suggests so. Something like is a far far better solution: http://blog.codeus.net/dateslider-1-0-an-alternative-datepicker-for-android/

But again my point is that stuff should be there from the factory, otherwise you're just halfassing an embedded system.

 

[ControlD]

Heheh. Thanks for reinforcing this point.

It's precisely this attitude which has held back Linux-on-the-desktop, and probably for a time, Android as well.

That wasn't exactly my point, but it isn't worth getting into in an Android themed topic.

 

[Red Storm]

The phone is supposed to be a tool for me to get shit done, not fuck around on xda-developers to try to assemble a collection of least-shitty ui apps..

Your use of tired cliches and stereotypes makes it pointless to discuss this with you...

Huge no-no if you know anything about human factors. Inconsistent layouts make you scan the screen rather than use muscle memory to interface the system. Pitching your muscle memory against yourself is a surefire way to make mistakes.

If that's a "huge no-no" to you then yes, I can see why anything other than a row of icons might be wrong in your eyes.

As for the date/time slider, It took me all of 1 second to try the very first time to see if it would spin, and see that it does. But I guess that's another "huge no-no".

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Let me ask you,would you take an iPhone 5 with iOS 6 or with jellybean source that the apple engineers could tweak and perfect it the way they'd like but also gave you full flexibility to do what ever you'd like with it also.

Basically would you take an iPhone 5 running android and let me know why you would or wouldn't use it.

No. iPhone screen is too small.

Huge no-no if you know anything about human factors. Inconsistent layouts make you scan the screen rather than use muscle memory to interface the system. Pitching your muscle memory against yourself is a surefire way to make mistakes.

The layout is consistent. Who the hell would 'scan" the screen looking for the menu. Most click able functions are centered around the "app bar" which the eye naturally gravitates to.

 

[Anubis]

I have a Galaxy Nexus with 4.1, 4.0.2 wasn't any better. Take a look at the contextual menu button location in the calendar versus google maps.

The date/time input dialog box (alarm clock) has been lifted from iOS in the worst possible fashion - there is nothing suggesting that you can "spin" the date pickers until you accidentally swipe across. Don't start in the middle though, because it will do something else. In 4.0.2 they had little up arrow down arrow thing that were clickable, suggesting that you should click up down to get it increment/decrement. Complete fucking disaster.

not sure what you are on about but its 100% obvious to use your finger to scroll on the clock, also nothing happens when i click in the middle of it.

 

[halik]

not sure what you are on about but its 100% obvious to use your finger to scroll on the clock, also nothing happens when i click in the middle of it.

Depending on what version of android you have, clicking in the middle (on the digit) will bring up a keyboard and let you edit the number directly... thus completely destroying the scroll dials metaphor.

Original android date picker had increment/decrement buttons

ICS date picker included arrows that were clickable, mimicking the increment/decrement function, suggesting that is the mode of input

In 4.1 they took away the arrows entirely (better), but there still isn't a proper 3d effect on the panels to suggest you should flick it up down. The faded numbers are still clickable, so the affordance suggests to click the faded number till you get what you want.

 

[Eug]

Let me ask you,would you take an iPhone 5 with iOS 6 or with jellybean source that the apple engineers could tweak and perfect it the way they'd like but also gave you full flexibility to do what ever you'd like with it also.

That's an odd question, because that will never happen.

Plus, it's hard to say until I've actually tried iOS 6, which I haven't. If I had to guess, it'd probably be iOS though, for a phone. I'm on a Mac, which probably biases my opinion, but even on Windows I think I'd prefer iOS, since the integration between iTunes, the store, and the hardware, is excellent even on Windows. Not so much with Android.

For the tablet, I didn't bother to wait for the iPad mini though, because I want that flexibility you're talking about that Android offers, specifically for external flash support and MKV playback. On a phone I don't care so much.

The one thing that concerns me though for iOS 6 is Maps. Apparently the support for Toronto sucked in early iterations. Dunno about now.

 

[ChronoReverse]

In 4.1 they took away the arrows entirely (better), but there still isn't a proper 3d effect on the panels to suggest you should flick it up down. The faded numbers are still clickable, so the affordance suggests to click the faded number till you get what you want.

This is the power of assumption by so-called experts on UI.

For example, your "expert" opinion says "suggests to click on the faded number" but I actually never even knew that was possible and had always been scrolling it and finding it terrible because I overshoot all the time (I thank you for this post since now I know I can do that).

In fact, it didn't matter that they wasn't a "3D effect" or "arrows to indicate it can be scrolled". From touchscreen habits, I had simply assumed it could be scrolled then lo and behold it worked.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

For ICS users, this is absolutely a disaster IMO. I'm not a retard so I figured out they wanted us to flick scroll. I don't mind them stealing from iOS. It's a great feature IMO, but they did it in a broken manner.

Flicking is fine, but look at those idiotic up and down arrows.

Sometimes I overscroll, and instead of sliding my finger up and down just to move it 1 month/1 day forward/backward, I want to use the arrows. My mind actually works like this: If I want 8:29 instead of 8:30, I would think hitting the up arrow selects the grayed out 29. Instead it increases time and gives me 8:31. The arrow fiasco was just idiotic. I'm glad they removed this in JB. Honestly whoever designed this and let this go into an actual UI should be fired.

I completely understand that an up arrow means increase (in general) and a down arrow means decrease (in general). It's just that in applying it here and having a grayed out value be in the REVERSE order, you screwed people over. Either reverse the flick scrolling entirely so the arrows are in the SAME direction as the flick scrolling, or remove them.

And you know while the Gingerbread date picker looks like ass compared to the ICS/JB date picker, it at least gave you the DAY of the week. Why Google removed that is beyond me. It's like 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards. The people who work with this stuff are absolutely retarded or something at Google. It's like they take forever to get it right. Other blunders include horrible copy&paste implementation and taking forever to develop a decent keyboard.

From touchscreen habits, I had simply assumed it could be scrolled then lo and behold it worked.

Uhhh touchscreen habits for most in this case mean having used an iDevice to understand how their scrolling date picker/time picker works. Otherwise if you've never seen that, running into one of these would be confusing. I don't mind that they stole from iOS. They just stole and then implemented a horrible form of it.

And I think this is the issue with Android. Who cares if you're first to the game or if you have a feature. If it's horribly implemented, it's as good as not having it. Apple admitted already they aren't always first to the game, but will implement it right. Their multitasking implementation was good. Better than Android at the time of iOS4 release. I do like ICS's flick away to close, but I can guarantee you they took that cue from Apple's hold and kill. Can you imagine going back to the terrible multitasking that was in Gingerbread? Nah. Let's stay away from that.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

No. The arrow shows which way the wheel spins, get it? It's a slot machine wheel. That's the entire point of the design. That's completely obvious.

When you push a directional button on a machine that has a analog number wheel, the wheel turns in that direction, increasing the number.

It's actually makes perfect sense and lines up with real life, instead of something for you to complain about. Who the hell looks like that and actually thinks pressing up means the that wheel would spin downward instead of thinking of real life and seeing that the wheel spins in the direction that you select. That's like the most backwards way of thinking about it and shows that you're just looking for nitpicks instead of just using the phone in an obvious way.

Now I hate the wheel format personally, and I prefer simply typing in the numbers, but that's a diferent conversation entirely.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

No. The arrow shows which way the wheel spins, get it? It's a slot machine wheel. That's the entire point of the design. That's completely obvious.

When you push a directional button on a machine that has a analog number wheel, the wheel turns in that direction, increasing the number.

It's actually makes perfect sense and lines up with real life, instead of something for you to complain about.

Now I hate the wheel format personally, and I prefer simply typing in the numbers, but that's a diferent conversation entirely.

This goes along the lines of invert mouse or not. Does the arrow refer to the selection above (grayed item) or spinning the wheel up. It can mean either depending on who you ask. And I think there's enough people who could be confused until they touch it and figure it out that Google should've realized. It's not blatantly obvious to ANYONE how it would be.

It's like laptop scrolling. In old OSX you DRAG scroll with 2 fingers on the touchpad. Now you can have flick scroll or drag scroll. They allow you to pick between the two. There's clearly enough people in each camp to dictate a choice. The same here. People could take the arrow as the way you flick it or the selection above. It's not so clear cut obvious, and if something can be confusing, it's better not to have an arrow and a flick scroll.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

You act like the 2 seconds that it takes for someone to figure out how the UI works and then figure it out for the rest of their lives is some uniquely confusing time that causes permanent psychological harm. The homescreen in iOS doesn't make it clear that I can swipe from left to right to reach other apps. HOLY CRAP ITS BAD UI DESIGN. But this argument is less important.

Scrolling is a completely different scenario because in this case, its specifically invoking the image of the wheel to make a point. Scrolling on a computer is back and forth because the closest analog is a piece of paper. When you go down a piece of paper, you drag it from bottom up. However, a computer is not a piece of paper.

However, on a wheel there is no argument. When someone says rotate the wheel up, what direction is the wheel rotating? Down to up. There is no argument. Everyone gets it. If you see a wheel from the side, and tell the person to make the wheel go left, its going to turn counterclockwise. There is almost no argument to make it go the other way. A wheel has a very specific method of operation in everyones minds. We tend to be more tech savvy and we don't need to go through this thought process and just know how to use tech, but unless you can't figure out how society views how a wheel works, its pretty damn simple and you're just looking for things to complain about.

 

[cl-scott]

The date picker is part of the android API, so is the location of the contextual menu. Some 80% of the apps have it top right, some apps have it elsewhere.

The phone is supposed to be a tool for me to get shit done, not fuck around on xda-developers to try to assemble a collection of least-shitty ui apps. This is literally the same thing that plagues Linux on desktop... google should be providing something with an awesome UI solution out of the box, not a halfass starting point. You clearly are missing this point.

You make some fair points, but at the same time, how is this really any different from iOS or even Windows Phone? The collection of least-bad apps that is.

I haven't used Windows Phone, but I would imagine that, by and large, the default apps are perfectly functional for basic operation. If you want to go beyond that, then it's a matter of trying to find the least crappy app. Some people can develop a nice UI, most people can't. Programming is a very sort of linear and logical task, and UI design is... Well... Not. It's a rare person that can do both well.

I have a number of complaints about the iOS UI, but this is the wrong thread for such things. The point is, that there are plenty of things to dislike about iOS as well as Android, and probably Windows Phone, I just can't personally comment on that.

 

[Zaap]

For ICS users, this is absolutely a disaster IMO. I'm not a retard so I figured out they wanted us to flick scroll. I don't mind them stealing from iOS. It's a great feature IMO, but they did it in a broken manner.

Then there are those of us who simply put a tick next to 'automatic date and time' and have never even seen any of these date/time selector screens on any device. And even if I ever did need it (once every other decade or so I'm guessing) I'd rather be able to simply click and enter via keypad than scroll through numbers.

It amazes me the crap some people can find to baffle themselves with while 99.9% of everyone else simply moves on.

 

[cheezy321]

Then there are those of us who simply put a tick next to 'automatic date and time' and have never even seen any of these date/time selector screens on any device. And even if I ever did need it (once every other decade or so I'm guessing) I'd rather be able to simply click and enter via keypad than scroll through numbers.

It amazes me the crap some people can find to baffle themselves with while 99.9% of everyone else simply moves on.

This pretty much sums up every one of your posts in this forum. Nothing wrong with android is ever legitimate. Your team is never wrong.

 

[Zaap]

This pretty much sums up every one of your posts in this forum. Nothing that a bunch of iOS cheerleaders think is wrong with android is ever legitimate. Team iOS is annoying as hell.

Corrected that for you.

 

[cheezy321]

Corrected that for you.

Par for the course. At least I directly quoted what I am talking about. But continue with your fetish of labeling everyone on a team of some sort as well as the 'everyone is an idiot' mantra. Its pretty funny. and a little crazy.

This is a thread about UI. This is a conversation about how it could be better on the android. I never thought that 'who cares' was a valid form of debate. This is a 3 page thread about this issue, so obviously people care. If you don't care, why do you try and shove your opinion that you don't care down peoples throats? Why not just avoid this thread altogether?

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Then there are those of us who simply put a tick next to 'automatic date and time' and have never even seen any of these date/time selector screens on any device. And even if I ever did need it (once every other decade or so I'm guessing) I'd rather be able to simply click and enter via keypad than scroll through numbers.

It amazes me the crap some people can find to baffle themselves with while 99.9% of everyone else simply moves on.

Holy crap dude. Do you ever create meetings? Appointments? Alarms? Automatic time my ass.....

Why add scrolling if its confusing?

 

[Zaap]

cheezy, you're easily one of the most unstable people on here, and yes, it's abundantly clear you're 100% obsessed with Android. All that time spent squinting at boring icon grids on a postage stamp sized screen tends to make people go a little crazy I gather.

 

[halik]

Holy crap dude. Do you ever create meetings? Appointments? Alarms? Automatic time my ass.....

Why add scrolling if its confusing?

Adding alarms is a huuuge use case for me (reminders for market-related things), which is why I noticed how horrid the implementation of that very simple UI element is. If google had people versed in UI, something like this would've made it to the release already.

Simple, clear affordance that makes it immediately clear how to interact with it.

http://blog.codeus.net/dateslider-1-0-an-alternative-datepicker-for-android/

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

You act like the 2 seconds that it takes for someone to figure out how the UI works and then figure it out for the rest of their lives is some uniquely confusing time that causes permanent psychological harm. The homescreen in iOS doesn't make it clear that I can swipe from left to right to reach other apps. HOLY CRAP ITS BAD UI DESIGN. But this argument is less important.

Scrolling is a completely different scenario because in this case, its specifically invoking the image of the wheel to make a point. Scrolling on a computer is back and forth because the closest analog is a piece of paper. When you go down a piece of paper, you drag it from bottom up. However, a computer is not a piece of paper.

However, on a wheel there is no argument. When someone says rotate the wheel up, what direction is the wheel rotating? Down to up. There is no argument. Everyone gets it. If you see a wheel from the side, and tell the person to make the wheel go left, its going to turn counterclockwise. There is almost no argument to make it go the other way. A wheel has a very specific method of operation in everyones minds. We tend to be more tech savvy and we don't need to go through this thought process and just know how to use tech, but unless you can't figure out how society views how a wheel works, its pretty damn simple and you're just looking for things to complain about.

Holy crap man. Your post sums up exactly why Team Android hates Team Apple. CHOICE. Openness. This is a clear cut case that CAN be interpreted multiple ways. According to you nothing is ever wrong.

The fact is that the arrow itself doesn't necessarily refer to spinning the wheel. The fact that there is a grayed value may suggest to some (myself included) that the arrow means to select the value above the highlighted. Yes I obviously figured it out that it refers to spinning and not dragging the wheel.

The point is it can be interpreted multiple ways:
- Is it spinning the wheel?
- Is it a +/- button? (what if you reversed the wheel? it just so happens the wheel spins in a +/- fashion)
- Is it referring to the value above or below? It's an arrow after all not a +/-.

The fact that you're insisting that there's only one way to look at it and it's clear cut makes you sound like as big of a douche as Steve Jobs. Yeah I HAVE to do it that way. No other option. That's exactly why Google removed the stupid arrows in JellyBean. Congrats.

Adding alarms is a huuuge use case for me (reminders for market-related things), which is why I noticed how horrid the implementation of that very simple UI element is. If google had people versed in UI, something like this would've made it to the release already.

Simple, clear affordance that makes it immediately clear how to interact with it.

http://blog.codeus.net/dateslider-1-0-an-alternative-datepicker-for-android/

Dunno. I actually like the stolen iOS spin wheel. It just needs to be more clear that it's a spin wheel. The arrows in ICS were a huge mistake. So I like how it is in JB. I would like it to add the day of the week though as to me that's critical in posting calendar events. I shouldnt have to open an Outlook calendar or to look at the calendar hanging in my cube and refer to that while I use my phone.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Holy crap man. Your post sums up exactly why Team Android hates Team Apple. CHOICE. Openness. This is a clear cut case that CAN be interpreted multiple ways. According to you nothing is ever wrong.

The fact is that the arrow itself doesn't necessarily refer to spinning the wheel. The fact that there is a grayed value may suggest to some (myself included) that the arrow means to select the value above the highlighted. Yes I obviously figured it out that it refers to spinning and not dragging the wheel.

The point is it can be interpreted multiple ways:
- Is it spinning the wheel?
- Is it a +/- button? (what if you reversed the wheel? it just so happens the wheel spins in a +/- fashion)
- Is it referring to the value above or below? It's an arrow after all not a +/-.

The fact that you're insisting that there's only one way to look at it and it's clear cut makes you sound like as big of a douche as Steve Jobs. Yeah I HAVE to do it that way. No other option. That's exactly why Google removed the stupid arrows in JellyBean. Congrats.



Dunno. I actually like the stolen iOS spin wheel. It just needs to be more clear that it's a spin wheel. The arrows in ICS were a huge mistake. So I like how it is in JB. I would like it to add the day of the week though as to me that's critical in posting calendar events. I shouldnt have to open an Outlook calendar or to look at the calendar hanging in my cube and refer to that while I use my phone.

I'm trying to wrap my head around what issue you have with this. I already don't give a damn about this UI crap because I prefer alternatives for reasons that don't involve the UI.

The fact is that you're making some sort of big deal of an INCREDIBLY simple UI feature for NO OTHER REASON than to complain about it. Other than it being extremely obvious what its function is, even if you DIDN'T know, it would take all of two seconds where you try and fiddle with it, and VOILA. You've figured it out forever and ever and ever. SO DIFFICULT.

It's a goddamn UI option. You bring up the concept of "choice". Unless Google has options for different styles of list, yes you have to do it that way, unless of course you use alternatives, which exist by the bucketloads. Or hell, open up the UI framework in Android and change it yourself and compile a personal ROM. It won't be that hard. I'm merely pointing out the fact that its quite obvious how the bar works, and even if it isn't to some, a single touch to the screen will obviously show how it works.

And you said I claimed nothing about Android is ever wrong. I never claimed that. The only claim I'm making is that you're complaining about a flaw that isn't a flaw. Just a victim of the most backwards way of thinking about something ever. Do you also complain that grammatically flammable and inflammable mean the same thing and that the people who create language deserve a punch in the face? Hopefully not, because if you actually have a semblence of cognitive abilities, you can figure out what is happening in that word.

You think this is bad UI design? Android must have the greatest UI designers on the planet if that is the best UI "flaw" you can think of.
Ever play video games like EYE or X3, or Hearts of Iron? I bet you would bitch for years on forums on how unintuitive the UI is on those games.