• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Andrew Luck vs RG3

Page 26 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

When all is said and done when they retire, who do you think will be deemed the bette

  • Luck

  • RG3

  • Russell Wilson

Results are only viewable after voting.
angminas said:
Pretty much this (except for the iffy Russell comparison). I can't think of a recent QB with a worse ability-to-handling ratio than RG3. If he goes to a team where management doesn't have such a severe case of head-in-ass disease, he could blow up again like in his rookie season.
Click to expand...

i guess you missed the whole part where it was RG3's decision to not run the offense that he ran in 2012 that was successful. that's a pretty big hole in your assumption.

or i guess i should say it was him and his dad's decision.
 
angminas said:
Pretty much this (except for the iffy Russell comparison). I can't think of a recent QB with a worse ability-to-handling ratio than RG3. If he goes to a team where management doesn't have such a severe case of head-in-ass disease, he could blow up again like in his rookie season.

Of course, there's the rub. Teams which can manage QBs usually already have QBs. How much talent does this league waste because it's an athletic version of Kitchen Nightmares? How many completely valid dreams are crushed because cowardly and/or incompetent coaches keep trying to hitch giraffes to plows?

Chalkboard day is long past at the pro level. It's Jimmies and Joes, not Xs and Os. A real NFL coach knows there is no spoon and bends himself to the situation without losing command of it. The exact opposite of how RG3 has been handled. Good thinking, Shanahan...like you were going to win the Super Bowl anyway.
Click to expand...

What you guys are missing (and I had to explain to another guy on another forum recently) is that the style RGIII played in Washington his first year is the only style that he has shown he can play successfully in the NFL. Unfortunately for him, two things happened:

1. Defenses adapted to this play style.
2. His injury.

I predicted on numerous occasions that BOTH of these things would happen. I pointed out on NUMEROUS occasions that Shanahan installed a gimmicky offense full of read options, designed QB runs, and other tomfoolery. Of course, all I got back was things like "RGIII is better than Luck!" and foolishness like "He isn't running designed run plays or read options! He is a pocket passer! You don't watch his games!" The last part was especially funny because I literally had just watched one of his games and like 3/4ths of his plays were exactly what I said and the times he remained in the pocket, he showed terrible footwork and presence.

Guess what? I was 100% right and proven so the last 3 years, just like I was proven right about Kevin Kolb and Michael Vick, two other QBs I was ridiculed for criticizing when I said the Eagles ripped the Cards off for trading for an unproven and mediocre QB (Kolb) and said Vick was not an elite QB. And to be clear, my original argument wasn't the fact that the Redskins drafted RGIII, but the fact that the Rams ripped them off. Again, Redskins fans told me I was nuts and guess who was right?

RGIII has had AMPLE time to become a pocket passer. He has shown he has zero pocket presence and while his offensive line might not be great, Luck has been hit FAR more and keeps lighting it up. Shanahan was the ONLY reason RGIII had ANY success at all in the NFL. Most other teams would've forced him into a pocket passer role and as we've seen, he would likely not do well.

Lastly, the Colts did consider taking him but were exposed to his attitude issues and that sunk any slim chance he had of going #1 overall.
 
Last edited:
IndyColtsFan said:
What you guys are missing (and I had to explain to another guy on another forum recently) is that the style RGIII played in Washington his first year is the only style that he has shown he can play successfully in the NFL. Unfortunately for him, two things happened:

1. Defenses adapted to this play style.
2. His injury.

I predicted on numerous occasions that BOTH of these things would happen. I pointed out on NUMEROUS occasions that Shanahan installed a gimmicky offense full of read options, designed QB runs, and other tomfoolery. Of course, all I got back was things like "RGIII is better than Luck!" and foolishness like "He isn't running designed run plays or read options! He is a pocket passer! You don't watch his games!" The last part was especially funny because I literally had just watched one of his games and like 3/4ths of his plays were exactly what I said and the times he remained in the pocket, he showed terrible footwork and presence.

Guess what? I was 100% right and proven so the last 3 years, just like I was proven right about Kevin Kolb and Michael Vick, two other QBs I was ridiculed for criticizing when I said the Eagles ripped the Cards off for trading for an unproven and mediocre QB (Kolb) and said Vick was not an elite QB. And to be clear, my original argument wasn't the fact that the Redskins drafted RGIII, but the fact that the Rams ripped them off. Again, Redskins fans told me I was nuts and guess who was right?

RGIII has had AMPLE time to become a pocket passer. He has shown he has zero pocket presence and while his offensive line might not be great, Luck has been hit FAR more and keeps lighting it up. Shanahan was the ONLY reason RGIII had ANY success at all in the NFL. Most other teams would've forced him into a pocket passer role and as we've seen, he would likely not do well.

Lastly, the Colts did consider taking him but were exposed to his attitude issues and that sunk any slim chance he had of going #1 overall.
Click to expand...

The biggest issue with RG3 is the price paid for Washington to take him. That was ridiculous. Also, I never thought the Colts would take him. He hadn't shown he could run an offense similar to how the Colts played under Manning, which Luck had potential to do. RG3 was always a gamble to be a great QB; Luck was a much smaller gamble if he could fit into a pro offense. I honestly think has outperformed the expectations the Colts had for him, in terms of winning playoff games. Who actually thought a rookie QB would turn that team around?
 
purbeast, if the Skins moving on from RG3 was false, why is it gaining so much traction? I just saw it again on ESPN talking about the rift between ownership and management. This is a real question. It is just ESPN making fodder / click bait, or is there something more?
 
smackababy said:
purbeast, if the Skins moving on from RG3 was false, why is it gaining so much traction? I just saw it again on ESPN talking about the rift between ownership and management. This is a real question. It is just ESPN making fodder / click bait, or is there something more?
Click to expand...

you mean like getting rid of him? or him not starting?

locally it's all just hearsay in general, nothing has been confirmed denied. but a lot of local guys think that he may be released before the season starts. just that whether he tries or not, he's a distraction to the organization.

but there hasn't been anything "official" yet. there was the one unknown source who said that scot mcloughn was "ready to move on" but more unnamed sources so who knows.

financially they don't get any benefit in cutting him though. like they don't really lose anything by keeping him on the roster, other than him being a distraction for the whole season, which itself could be worth cutting him, which is why people think he may be cut too.

everything i've heard locally though is all just speculation/hearsay.
 
smackababy said:
The biggest issue with RG3 is the price paid for Washington to take him. That was ridiculous. Also, I never thought the Colts would take him. He hadn't shown he could run an offense similar to how the Colts played under Manning, which Luck had potential to do. RG3 was always a gamble to be a great QB; Luck was a much smaller gamble if he could fit into a pro offense. I honestly think has outperformed the expectations the Colts had for him, in terms of winning playoff games. Who actually thought a rookie QB would turn that team around?
Click to expand...

You're right, I don't know how seriously the Colts considered RGIII but I do know that what torpedoed any chance he had of being drafted by them was that he refused to fly in for a second interview. That made the decision even easier for the Colts.

Luck was hailed as the greatest QB prospect since at least Peyton Manning and maybe even since Elway, so I think it was pretty much a no brainer and no-lose situation picking him. Even if he turned out to suck, no one would've blamed the Colts for picking him. Like I said, I don't blame the team holding the second pick for picking RGIII; I blame the Redskins for getting fleeced.
 
purbeast0 said:
it's crazy how the o-line gets so much of the blame, but kirk cousins didn't get sacked this past week behind that same exact offensive line, and both him and mccoy got sacked a fraction of how much rg3 got sacked the past 2 years, percentaged based on how many starts they had.

it's not even close. rg3 is a moron in the pocket and behind the line.
Click to expand...

It's crazy how idiots focus on the QB instead of the most important factor on offense, the o-line. People who know football focus on lineplay, idiot NFL fans spew on and on and on and on about QBs.

Purebeast, your trashfire of a team is going to suck without RGIII just as much, or worse, because it will continue to be owned by an imbecile. Nothing any single player will do will be able to counteract the incompetence of your piece of shit owner, the fucking idiot who traded UP (only idiots do this in the NFL) for the 2nd slot for not even the best QB in the draft.

Jesus fucking christ, you are pathetic. Enjoy your shit sandwich this season.
 
Last edited:
smackababy said:
purbeast, if the Skins moving on from RG3 was false, why is it gaining so much traction? I just saw it again on ESPN talking about the rift between ownership and management. This is a real question. It is just ESPN making fodder / click bait, or is there something more?
Click to expand...

The Redskins denied there was a rift between ownership and management, but I don't believe them. I believe there IS a rift between ownership and management but I believe ownership is coming around to management's view.

The main thing with RGIII is that they absolutely HAVE to cut him before next season. I was thinking about a conversation earlier in this thread where we came to the conclusion that they'd probably wait until the end of the season and cut him before the calendar turns over to the new year, but the more I think about it, the more that idea might be flawed. I am not sure they can cut him THIS SEASON if he is injured, so if they keep him on the roster and he is forced to play because another QB is down, another knee injury could push his injury recovery into next year and the Redskins would be forced to pay him $16 million. So it might be wiser to cut him sooner rather than take that risk.
 
preslove said:
It's crazy how idiots focus on the QB instead of the most important factor on offense, the o-line. People who know football focus on lineplay, idiot NFL fans spew on and on and on and on about QBs.
Click to expand...

While I agree that the offensive line is super important, plenty of great QBs have played behind awful offensive lines.

See: Luck, Andrew
Manning, Peyton (last 3-4 years on the Colts)

Conversely, plenty of mediocre/poor QBs have played behind very good offensive lines and decent defenses and gone nowhere.

See: Hoyer, Brian @ Cleveland
Boller, Kyle @ Baltimore
 
IndyColtsFan said:
The Redskins denied there was a rift between ownership and management, but I don't believe them. I believe there IS a rift between ownership and management but I believe ownership is coming around to management's view.

The main thing with RGIII is that they absolutely HAVE to cut him before next season. I was thinking about a conversation earlier in this thread where we came to the conclusion that they'd probably wait until the end of the season and cut him before the calendar turns over to the new year, but the more I think about it, the more that idea might be flawed. I am not sure they can cut him THIS SEASON if he is injured, so if they keep him on the roster and he is forced to play because another QB is down, another knee injury could push his injury recovery into next year and the Redskins would be forced to pay him $16 million. So it might be wiser to cut him sooner rather than take that risk.
Click to expand...

I think cutting him during camp is probably the best option, if they (management) believes he won't be part of the offense for that team. For what it's worth, Kirk Cousins during his starts in the last two seasons, has done worse than RG3. If they cut him now, he can get picked up by someone as a back up (which would be the best option for RG3, at this point) and work into being a decent QB.
 
smackababy said:
I think cutting him during camp is probably the best option, if they (management) believes he won't be part of the offense for that team. For what it's worth, Kirk Cousins during his starts in the last two seasons, has done worse than RG3. If they cut him now, he can get picked up by someone as a back up (which would be the best option for RG3, at this point) and work into being a decent QB.
Click to expand...

Yeah, even allowing RGIII to practice carries a huge risk for them. It is best to cut their losses now and let him sign with the Cowboys - I'm sure JerryWorld will welcome him with open arms. 😀
 
IndyColtsFan said:
While I agree that the offensive line is super important, plenty of great QBs have played behind awful offensive lines.

See: Luck, Andrew
Manning, Peyton (last 3-4 years on the Colts)

Conversely, plenty of mediocre/poor QBs have played behind very good offensive lines and decent defenses and gone nowhere.

See: Hoyer, Brian @ Cleveland
Boller, Kyle @ Baltimore
Click to expand...

Peyton and Luck are the exceptions to the rule. They were both #1 quarterbacks who were obvious slam dunks from the beginning. Only a couple of those types of QBs show up in a decade, and they go at the #1 spot. And, Peyton is an all time great QB with how many superbowl rings?

Trent Dilfer has 2 superbowl rings because offensive and defensive lines win champtionships. When you can't draft an all time great you don't draft of to get the 2nd best guy at #2. 95%+ of QBs are going to have to sit on the bench for a few years before they can handle the NFL and you can even develop a 6th round QB like Tom Brady into an elite player. And, because there is such a mental aspect to QB play, you're going to get far more busts with QB draft pics than other positions. WR routes don't get a ton more complicated in the pros, so you can actually measure the performance at the combine of a WR and reasonably predict their value. You can't measure with any accuracy how a QB is going to adjust to the fast, complicated defenses of the NFL. It only EVER makes sense to draft high for a QB when you have a Luck, Peyton, Elway etc.

Smart teams trade down to get more picks in order to get more chances at getting quality players. Dumb teams waste pics/players by trading up, because that one player can get injured or just not be able to excel at the pro level. Having ownership/management understand this is far more important to success than the play of any one player, including the QB.

The draft of RGIII is a symptom of the disease, not the cause of Washington's failure. These are the idiots who traded away picks for an old McNabb, for christ's sake.
 
Last edited:
preslove said:
Trent Dilfer has 2 superbowl rings because offensive and defensive lines win champtionships.
Click to expand...

Correction - Dilfer has 1 as a starter. You probably forgot that Brad Johnson was the QB when the Bucs won their SB.

When you can't draft an all time great you don't draft of to get the 2nd best guy at #2. 95%+ of QBs are going to have to sit on the bench for a few years before they can handle the NFL and you can even develop a 6th round QB like Tom Brady into an elite player. And, because there is such a mental aspect to QB play, you're going to get far more busts with QB draft pics than other positions. WR routes don't get a ton more complicated in the pros, so you can actually measure the performance at the combine of a WR and reasonably predict their value. You can't measure with any accuracy how a QB is going to adjust to the fast, complicated defenses of the NFL. It only EVER makes sense to draft high for a QB when you have a Luck, Peyton, Elway etc.

Smart teams trade down to get more picks in order to get more chances at getting a quality player. Dumb teams waste pics/players by trading up, because that one player can get injured or just not be able to excel at the pro level. Having ownership/management understand this is far more important to success than the play of any one player, including the QB.

The draft of RGIII is a symptom of the disease, not the cause of Washington's falure.
Click to expand...

Washington will never field a winner as long as Snyder owns them. That is what it all boils down to for them.
 
Last edited:
preslove said:
Peyton and Luck are the exceptions to the rule. They were both #1 quarterbacks who were obvious slam dunks from the beginning. Only a couple of those types of QBs show up in a decade, and they go at the #1 spot. And, Peyton is an all time great QB with how many superbowl rings?

Trent Dilfer has 2 superbowl rings because offensive and defensive lines win champtionships. When you can't draft an all time great you don't draft of to get the 2nd best guy at #2. 95%+ of QBs are going to have to sit on the bench for a few years before they can handle the NFL and you can even develop a 6th round QB like Tom Brady into an elite player. And, because there is such a mental aspect to QB play, you're going to get far more busts with QB draft pics than other positions. WR routes don't get a ton more complicated in the pros, so you can actually measure the performance at the combine of a WR and reasonably predict their value. You can't measure with any accuracy how a QB is going to adjust to the fast, complicated defenses of the NFL. It only EVER makes sense to draft high for a QB when you have a Luck, Peyton, Elway etc.

Smart teams trade down to get more picks in order to get more chances at getting quality players. Dumb teams waste pics/players by trading up, because that one player can get injured or just not be able to excel at the pro level. Having ownership/management understand this is far more important to success than the play of any one player, including the QB.

The draft of RGIII is a symptom of the disease, not the cause of Washington's failure. These are the idiots who traded away picks for an old McNabb, for christ's sake.
Click to expand...

You want to talk about Manning and Luck being exceptions and then you bring up the biggest QB exception of all time? Dilfer literally had to simply not screw up and Baltimore would win. They had one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL carrying them.
 
smackababy said:
You want to talk about Manning and Luck being exceptions and then you bring up the biggest QB exception of all time? Dilfer literally had to simply not screw up and Baltimore would win. They had one of the best defenses in the history of the NFL carrying them.
Click to expand...

I'd put Brad Johnson, who I always forget about and then say Dilfer has two rings, below Dilfer. Johnson had Dunn and Alstott and a great o-line.

The point is, the QB is only one position in a game where 22 people are on the field at once and injuries are common.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top