Andrew Luck vs RG3

[zinfamous]

on behalf of redskins nation, i'd like to apologize for him.

Would it help to remind eits that the Skins could have drafted both Morris and Russell Wilson in that same draft, all the while preserving their future with some elite O Line pics as well?

 

[purbeast0]

Would it help to remind eits that the Skins could have drafted both Morris and Russell Wilson in that same draft, all the while preserving their future with some elite O Line pics as well?

we all know that is not a "snyder" thing to do, so it would never happen.

but looking at the draft in hindsight is pointless.

 

[smackababy]

Would it help to remind eits that the Skins could have drafted both Morris and Russell Wilson in that same draft, all the while preserving their future with some elite O Line pics as well?

They could have taken Austin Davis and not even wasted a pick!

 

[eits]

Who cares if you "trained" them? Being a trainer doesn't qualify you as a talent scout, offensive coordinator, NFL head coach, general manager, or anything of that nature. You have no quarterback knowledge. Period. Listen to the experts who talk about RGIII's lack of fundamentals, his poor pocket presence, etc. If you had QB knowledge, you wouldn't have made half the arguments you made. My favorite was you guys trying to tell me that RGIII was only running when he "had" to. I flip on a Redskins game and sure enough, practically every other play was a read option. You guys were either dishonest or again, lack football knowledge. At least some people here admit they were wrong. I've been wrong before (see: Jeff George) and I'll be wrong again, but I'll admit it and move on.

Anyone making it to the NFL is generally a top athlete. You sitting here and screaming that RGIII is a great athlete and you know because you "trained" quarterbacks is laughable. The Redskins and other NFL teams have trainers that have FAR more experience than you do and look what has happened. Also, Vick (to name just one) was a top athlete and had a lackluster QB career. Jamarcus Russell, Jeff George, Ryan Leaf, and Jay Cutler have had some of the strongest arms in the league and none had great careers. Athletic attributes are just one component. It is the other attributes that set an NFL QB apart from the competition and this is where RGIII is lacking. Do you seriously think Tom Brady or Peyton Manning are (or ever were) elite athletes compared to the rest of the NFL? Of course not. Do you think Joe Montana was a great athlete compared to other NFL athletes in his day? Do you think he had a top arm? Of course not.

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about.

these commentators, former players, coaches, etc. have been saying that rg3 has talent and potential and he's just not there yet. secondly, i have more knowledge when it comes to rehab than the trainers at redskins park... having been there and being a former doctor to a couple of the players and former official chiropractor and physical therapy provider to the redskins, i have some first-hand knowledge.

fundamentals, like footwork, is tied to his core stability, which was weak. pocket presence, however, is something he has developed but still can't trust with a sorry excuse for an offensive line... every quarterback who started ended up learning the lesson not to trust the offensive line, whether it was rg3, mccoy, or cousins. it isn't because they all suck, it's because if you can't trust the pocket, you don't have mental clarity to know who to throw to because you're constantly watching your back and your line.

until the offensive line gets figured out and rg3 plays a complete season, i don't feel it's fair to declare him a bust. if he stays healthy and the offensive line improves and he still gets sacked a lot and has bad footwork, THEN i'll be fine with calling him a bust. his footwork and release has improved significantly, though, so he's clearly learning from his mistakes.

gray cook and greg rose both told me, when they did the fms on him after his knee was rehabbed, that he scored close to perfect and should have no problem being developed back to his normal playing for. unfortunately, rg3 wasn't there mentally... he was still shellshocked from the knee injury and wasn't fully ready to return.

the trainers should be focusing on rg3's core stability, cross-crawl patters, and stabilizing his genu valgus collapse with some lateral mobility/glute medius training. they aren't however. instead, they've got him lifting weights, which does next to nothing for him, and they have him lifting incorrectly, i might add.

i'm not arguing that rg3 is awesome. i'm arguing that rg3 has loads of potential that isn't being tapped into. if you have an investment on a player like him, you have to protect and develop it properly. well, the redskins are not. i've written letter after letter to dan snyder to get new atc's and better physical therapists... didn't get any response.

i'm not arguing that andrew luck sucks. i'm arguing that andrew luck is overrated. his pocket presence and mechanics are good and he's got solid core stability, but he doesn't have accuracy and he hasn't had a difficult schedule in the nfl yet. does that mean he sucks? no. it means he's overrated. does he have potential? yes.

russell wilson has it all, so far. his team and trainers have tapped into russell wilson's potential. the seahawks are a disciplined team who prehabs and even gets players to see sports psychologists in order to get them into an optimal mental space when they go out and play. whatever negative things i may have said about him in the past (which i don't remember if i did or didn't, i'm just going off of what andrew luck's jock strap, indycoltsfan, said), i was wrong about that. he's awesome.

i just believe that rg3 can be the same type of player that russell wilson, except faster and with a stronger arm, so long as he has trainers and coaches who will develop him to get to that form. it's the reason why i really, really want darrell bevell as the head coach in washington.

 

[purbeast0]

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about.

these commentators, former players, coaches, etc. have been saying that rg3 has talent and potential and he's just not there yet. secondly, i have more knowledge when it comes to rehab than the trainers at redskins park... having been there and being a former doctor to a couple of the players and former official chiropractor and physical therapy provider to the redskins, i have some first-hand knowledge.

fundamentals, like footwork, is tied to his core stability, which was weak. pocket presence, however, is something he has developed but still can't trust with a sorry excuse for an offensive line... every quarterback who started ended up learning the lesson not to trust the offensive line, whether it was rg3, mccoy, or cousins. it isn't because they all suck, it's because if you can't trust the pocket, you don't have mental clarity to know who to throw to because you're constantly watching your back and your line.

until the offensive line gets figured out and rg3 plays a complete season, i don't feel it's fair to declare him a bust. if he stays healthy and the offensive line improves and he still gets sacked a lot and has bad footwork, THEN i'll be fine with calling him a bust. his footwork and release has improved significantly, though, so he's clearly learning from his mistakes.

gray cook and greg rose both told me, when they did the fms on him after his knee was rehabbed, that he scored close to perfect and should have no problem being developed back to his normal playing for. unfortunately, rg3 wasn't there mentally... he was still shellshocked from the knee injury and wasn't fully ready to return.

the trainers should be focusing on rg3's core stability, cross-crawl patters, and stabilizing his genu valgus collapse with some lateral mobility/glute medius training. they aren't however. instead, they've got him lifting weights, which does next to nothing for him, and they have him lifting incorrectly, i might add.

i'm not arguing that rg3 is awesome. i'm arguing that rg3 has loads of potential that isn't being tapped into. if you have an investment on a player like him, you have to protect and develop it properly. well, the redskins are not. i've written letter after letter to dan snyder to get new atc's and better physical therapists... didn't get any response.

i'm not arguing that andrew luck sucks. i'm arguing that andrew luck is overrated. his pocket presence and mechanics are good and he's got solid core stability, but he doesn't have accuracy and he hasn't had a difficult schedule in the nfl yet. does that mean he sucks? no. it means he's overrated. does he have potential? yes.

russell wilson has it all, so far. his team and trainers have tapped into russell wilson's potential. the seahawks are a disciplined team who prehabs and even gets players to see sports psychologists in order to get them into an optimal mental space when they go out and play. whatever negative things i may have said about him in the past (which i don't remember if i did or didn't, i'm just going off of what andrew luck's jock strap, indycoltsfan, said), i was wrong about that. he's awesome.

i just believe that rg3 can be the same type of player that russell wilson, except faster and with a stronger arm, so long as he has trainers and coaches who will develop him to get to that form. it's the reason why i really, really want darrell bevell as the head coach in washington.

cliffs:

excuse
excuse
excuse
excuse
excuse
excuse

 

[eits]

Would it help to remind eits that the Skins could have drafted both Morris and Russell Wilson in that same draft, all the while preserving their future with some elite O Line pics as well?

hindsight is 20/20... it wouldn't matter anyway. the entire redskins organization is a disaster. russell wilson would have played poorly and would get run out of town by our fickle fanbase, and then go off to win a super bowl or make the probowl elsewhere, like brad johnson or gus frerotte or something...

snyder needs many black eyes before he learns to back off and that nepotism doesn't help anyone... he needs to move bruce allen to a communications director position, hire a REAL general manager who has a proven track record and will get more talent scouts, hire darrell bevell as the new head coach, and take a step back while the proven professionals do their thing.

alfred morris is too one-dimensional. seeing his deficiencies with rg3 on bench has really opened my eyes to how he isn't good unless the defenses he plays are playing a scheme to protect against rg3 running the ball, too.

 

[zinfamous]

Emmit Smith defined one-dimensional when it comes to athletes. He turned out OK. Just put a wall in front of him.

 

[eits]

cliffs:

excuse
excuse
excuse
excuse
excuse
excuse

lol, since when did excuses lose their validity when they're valid arguments?

of course they're excuses. finding out the problem is how you find the solution. you don't just eliminate the symptoms of a problem and expect everything to just work itself out. you have to fix the problem in order to rid the symptoms, or else symptoms will keep happening over and over and over again (i.e. the redskins for the past however many years).

blame rg3 all you want, but at a certain point, you'll look back and think, "huh... didn't i say this same shit with other players? why is it that we get players who i always think suck, then they go off to other teams and play better?"

 

[eits]

Emmit Smith defined one-dimensional when it comes to athletes. He turned out OK. Just put a wall in front of him.

the game has evolved since then, but since we're talking about badass cowboys runners, i'd like a more dynamic player who can run, cut, and catch, kinda like demarco murray. i thought we had that in seastrunk... i was disappointed when he got cut from the team.

 

[eits]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19452139

ignoring this leads to problems. case and point, rg3.

we have horrible trainers and coaches who don't see stuff like this. the general public and the average person, like most of you guys, don't see stuff like this. all you see is the result, which is either an injury or poor playing or difficulty returning to playing form and think, "oh, he's a bust. get rid of him," when these issues can be fixed once they're addressed.

 

[purbeast0]

lol, since when did excuses lose their validity when they're valid arguments?

of course they're excuses. finding out the problem is how you find the solution. you don't just eliminate the symptoms of a problem and expect everything to just work itself out. you have to fix the problem in order to rid the symptoms, or else symptoms will keep happening over and over and over again (i.e. the redskins for the past however many years).

blame rg3 all you want, but at a certain point, you'll look back and think, "huh... didn't i say this same shit with other players? why is it that we get players who i always think suck, then they go off to other teams and play better?"

no matter what your excuses are, rg3 sucks, even after yesterdays game. he has played 8 games this year and has 3 touchdown passes. THREE TOUCHDOWNS IN EIGHT GAMES. that sucks no matter how you want to flip it.

can he be better?

sure he can. but to act like it is 100% guaranteed that he will become some superstar because you want him to is just being stupid at this point. his accuracy seemed amazing in 2012 because he was hitting WIDE OPEN PLAYERS. it's not hard to make passes to wide open players look tough, although RG3 does it all the time now on the little screens and stuff he misses with no pressure at all. but that was all scheme and nothing more. he has problems leading players big time.

i'd still rather see how he plays than having colt or kirk play, just to see 100% whether he is worth keeping around or not. but he simply is not a good quarterback right now.

oh, and i'm not just talking about your rg3 excuses, i'm talking about your "luck is overrated" excuses, which are hilarious to read.

 

[purbeast0]

the game has evolved since then, but since we're talking about badass cowboys runners, i'd like a more dynamic player who can run, cut, and catch, kinda like demarco murray. i thought we had that in seastrunk... i was disappointed when he got cut from the team.

your football knowledge (or lack there of) continues to show.

how the hell are you comparing seastruk to demarco murray? from his 5 runs against 3rd stringers in a preseason game? how the hell can you compare that to someone who has been in the league for years against first stringers and runs over people?

your homer'ism clouds your vision.

 

[eits]

no matter what your excuses are, rg3 sucks, even after yesterdays game. he has played 8 games this year and has 3 touchdown passes. THREE TOUCHDOWNS IN EIGHT GAMES. that sucks no matter how you want to flip it.

can he be better?

sure he can. but to act like it is 100% guaranteed that he will become some superstar because you want him to is just being stupid at this point.

i'd still rather see how he plays than having colt or kirk play, just to see 100% whether he is worth keeping around or not. but he simply is not a good quarterback right now.

oh, and i'm not just talking about your rg3 excuses, i'm talking about your "luck is overrated" excuses, which are hilarious to read.

lol you can't be serious.

of course it isn't 100% guaranteed that he'll be a superstar. someone need to train him properly and the skins aren't seeming to do that. if he gets the proper training from us (we get a new training and physical therapy staff) or cut or traded, especially to a team like the seahawks or the 49ers or the broncos... teams that have trained professionals when it comes to the cutting edge of athletic performance (sfma, fms, dns, etc.), he will stand a FAR better chance to be incredible and you'll feel like a chump for giving up on him, just like we skins fans always feel whenever we get rid of a player who ended up being better elsewhere.

and, sorry, but luck hasn't proven himself at all yet. give him a schedule that's somewhat difficult and then we'll see what's what. until then, he's a good quarterback who hasn't proven to be as good as his hype.

 

[eits]

your football knowledge (or lack there of) continues to show.

how the hell are you comparing seastruk to demarco murray? from his 5 runs against 3rd stringers in a preseason game? how the hell can you compare that to someone who has been in the league for years against first stringers and runs over people?

your homer'ism clouds your vision.

lol you're ridiculous.

the only reason seastrunk didn't make the team was because silas redd was better at blocking. that was it. seastrunk was a better runner than everyone, except he couldn't block, and it didn't fit the offense jay gruden wanted, so he got cut.

demarco murray has size and can block. all i was saying was that seastrunk is a dynamic running back in that he can catch, run, and cut and make people miss hard. he is a barry sanders type of runner and i think he's underrated.

("omg you're comparing seastrunk to barry sanders!? lack of football knowledge!")

 

[purbeast0]

lol you're ridiculous.

the only reason seastrunk didn't make the team was because silas redd was better at blocking. that was it. seastrunk was a better runner than everyone, except he couldn't block, and it didn't fit the offense jay gruden wanted, so he got cut.

demarco murray has size and can block. all i was saying was that seastrunk is a dynamic running back in that he can catch, run, and cut and make people miss hard. he is a barry sanders type of runner and i think he's underrated.

("omg you're comparing seastrunk to barry sanders!? lack of football knowledge!")

yeah, okay, let's just downplay all of that stuff then.

next thing you are probably going to tell us is that rg3 isn't injury prone.

 

[eits]

yeah, okay, let's just downplay all of that stuff then.

next thing you are probably going to tell us is that rg3 isn't injury prone.

He isn't.

I don't expect you to recognize that, though, because you don't have working knowledge of finding strengths or deficiencies in a player's biomechanics.

 

[glenn1]

the game has evolved since then, but since we're talking about badass cowboys runners, i'd like a more dynamic player who can run, cut, and catch, kinda like demarco murray. i thought we had that in seastrunk... i was disappointed when he got cut from the team.

Eits actually seems to be right in tune with how actual NFL general managers go about selecting players in both drafts and free agency (GMs for bad teams that is). Like him they appear to be overvaluing college-level accomplisments of players like RG3 and Seastrunk, prize athletic freaks with huge "measurables" but no football intelligence, and salivate over the possibility of future performance rather than current.

 

[eits]

Eits actually seems to be right in tune with how actual NFL general managers go about selecting players in both drafts and free agency (GMs for bad teams that is). Like him they appear to be overvaluing college-level accomplisments of players like RG3 and Seastrunk, prize athletic freaks with huge "measurables" but no football intelligence, and salivate over the possibility of future performance rather than current.

Lol

Actually, I value his running instincts. It isn't the measurables that I value. When I saw we drafted him, I shrugged and wondered why the hell we didn't get an OL.

Then, I saw him run in our offense and thought he outperformed everyone. His only problem was that he was a bad blocker.

Either way, here you go:

http://withthefirstpick.com/2014/01/12/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-lache-seastrunk-rb-baylor/

By the way, you wanna know who IS injury prone, based on their FMS? DJ Swearinger and Brian Orakpo.

 

[purbeast0]

Lol

Actually, I value his running instincts. It isn't the measurables that I value. When I saw we drafted him, I shrugged and wondered why the hell we didn't get an OL.

Then, I saw him run in our offense and thought he outperformed everyone. His only problem was that he was a bad blocker.

Either way, here you go:

http://withthefirstpick.com/2014/01/12/2014-nfl-draft-scouting-report-lache-seastrunk-rb-baylor/

By the way, you wanna know who IS injury prone, based on their FMS? DJ Swearinger and Brian Orakpo.

when did you see him run in "your" offense?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

lol, you have no idea what you're talking about.

these commentators, former players, coaches, etc. have been saying that rg3 has talent and potential and he's just not there yet.

Those same ones say he lacks solid fundamentals, has horrible footwork (after you and others gushed about his supposed pocket presence, etc), and has a poor attitude.

Jeff George, Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, and Cutler all had/have talent too. Anyone drafted that high in the NFL has talent of some sort.

secondly, i have more knowledge when it comes to rehab than the trainers at redskins park... having been there and being a former doctor to a couple of the players and former official chiropractor and physical therapy provider to the redskins, i have some first-hand knowledge.

BWAHAHAHA! Sure you do, sure you do.

 

[eits]

If I were a GM, I'd draft players based on their character, their biomechanical function, their ability to learn (scholastic performance), their conference, and, most of all, need for position.

I'd wait for the UDFA for those who I think have potential that no one else seems to recognize, so long as they have a great character, are intelligent, and they fill potential needs for the team.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

and, sorry, but luck hasn't proven himself at all yet. give him a schedule that's somewhat difficult and then we'll see what's what. until then, he's a good quarterback who hasn't proven to be as good as his hype.

You should go on tour. Seriously, you'd sell out every night. BWAHAHAHA!

 

[zinfamous]

this thread really has multi-season potential like the adlep fusion thread.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

this thread belongs in the (self) ownage of the year thread for eits. the more he talks the worse he gets. he is just full of excuse after excuse after excuse.

on behalf of redskins nation, i'd like to apologize for him.

I nominated him -- you should go nominate it too!

 

[IndyColtsFan]

this thread really has multi-season potential like the adlep fusion thread.

I actually hope RGIII gets his act together and becomes a good QB. However, that will not happen without a serious change in attitude and a new team. People making excuses for him is part of the problem.