Andrew Cuomo upset about losing SALT deductions

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glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
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Considering Republicans sell tax cuts for the top few % as middle class tax cuts, shouldn't be the much of a stretch.

A NYPD detective makes ~$90k
Wife is an RN making $80k

If they want a house, they'll be in upstate or in NJ.

Avj NJ property taxes in NJ is $8500, although to be within reasonable commuting distance, it will likey be more. Either way they easily blew through the SALT limit.

So you get to defend why you want to double tax first responders when you cut DJT's estate taxes.

You get to explain why their plummeting home value is making things great again.

You get to defend the cuts to the schools and teacher layoffs that will happen when the tax base gets savaged.

You get to defend the $10,000 logic? If it's "unfair subsidies", why is $9999 ok?

You get to own the exploding deficits and the billionaires getting fatter when it was a win/lose for so many regular folks.

Even if Ds can't get the R Senate to move, they get to beat the crass GOP over this unpopular tax scam in 2020.

Then they can do real tax reform for real people.

And even if that fails... It expires in 2025
I’ve not been defending the $10k “logic” and think it should be $0. I’m sorry you incorrectly feel not allowing unlimited SALT deductions for individuals is “double tax” when in reality it’s two or more separate sovereign governments each iindeoendently charging you tax on a given amount of income. Each us a separate obligation just like your water bill has a different obligation than your phone bill. Just as it would be stupid to say “let’s lower your water bill because your phone bill is very high” It’s likewise stupid to say “Hey your state income tax bill is high so let’s lower your federal income tax bill.”
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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I’ve not been defending the $10k “logic” and think it should be $0. I’m sorry you incorrectly feel not allowing unlimited SALT deductions for individuals is “double tax” when in reality it’s two or more separate sovereign governments each iindeoendently charging you tax on a given amount of income. Each us a separate obligation just like your water bill has a different obligation than your phone bill. Just as it would be stupid to say “let’s lower your water bill because your phone bill is very high” It’s likewise stupid to say “Hey your state income tax bill is high so let’s lower your federal income tax bill.”

So dishonest. SALT deductions have existed since 1913, so state taxes were crafted knowing they existed.

http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/ArtWeb/663D98E8EB142B3B852581C6005A9982?OpenDocument

It's an attempt to force high tax/ high services states into the GOP model of low taxes & services while providing partial fill for their huge federal tax cuts to the financial elite. Meanwhile, blue donor states put proportionately more into the federal kitty than ever before.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
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So dishonest. SALT deductions have existed since 1913, so state taxes were crafted knowing they existed.

http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/readings.nsf/ArtWeb/663D98E8EB142B3B852581C6005A9982?OpenDocument

It's an attempt to force high tax/ high services states into the GOP model of low taxes & services while providing partial fill for their huge federal tax cuts to the financial elite. Meanwhile, blue donor states put proportionately more into the federal kitty than ever before.
Yes this part of the link you posted seems most relevant:

Opponents of the SALT deduction, of course, can make a strong case on the merits: Despite the intricacies of its operation and its interaction with other elements of the tax system, the deduction is still regressive and it still operates as a subsidy for state spending.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
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Yes this part of the link you posted seems most relevant:
That's our GOP- making the tax system more progressive for the 99% & even more regressive at the pinnacle of income in the 1%. Meanwhile, middle class fools vote GOP over a variety of emotional wedge issues for which the GOP has no answers of benefit to them.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
126
That's our GOP- making the tax system more progressive for the 99% & even more regressive at the pinnacle of income in the 1%. Meanwhile, middle class fools vote GOP over a variety of emotional wedge issues for which the GOP has no answers of benefit to them.
You haven’t even yet admitted that unlimited SALT *is* regressive. If you want to support a regressive tax feature anyway because it benefits your tribe that’s your prerogative but you should be honest about it with yourself and not willfully commit doublethink for political gain.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
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You haven’t even yet admitted that unlimited SALT *is* regressive. If you want to support a regressive tax feature anyway because it benefits your tribe that’s your prerogative but you should be honest about it with yourself and not willfully commit doublethink for political gain.
I've contended that this new limit is designed to beat the cash out of a lot of middle class people in high tax states. The GOP is trying to force those states into a lower tax lower service model while increasing the federal take at the same time. Gotta compensate somehow for the tax giveaway at the top of the heap. It's a reverse Robin Hood deal with the most prosperous peasants taking the hit.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,049
285
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I’ve not been defending the $10k “logic” and think it should be $0. I’m sorry you incorrectly feel not allowing unlimited SALT deductions for individuals is “double tax” when in reality it’s two or more separate sovereign governments each iindeoendently charging you tax on a given amount of income. Each us a separate obligation just like your water bill has a different obligation than your phone bill. Just as it would be stupid to say “let’s lower your water bill because your phone bill is very high” It’s likewise stupid to say “Hey your state income tax bill is high so let’s lower your federal income tax bill.”
Taxpayers are paying for gov services. Where's some of the state tax money going? To build roads, clean up disasters, fix broken water systems and provide healthcare because the feds have been passing the buck.

But yeah, try to sell that argument that depending on the return address on the tax bill, you have to pay with either pre-tax or after tax dollars like it's a good deal. No one gives a shit when they see they're getting screwed.

Federal gov: "Oh hey people of Detroit/Flint. We used to help build your water system, but we spent all our money on tax cuts for rich people, so you'll have to pay to fix it yourselves.
-Oh? Exploding property taxes and poisoned water? Well, just remember you'll have to use what's left of your check after we take our cut. MAGA!"
 
Dec 18, 2010
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www.countrylifenet.com
It's an attempt to force high tax/ high services states into the GOP model of low taxes & services while providing partial fill for their huge federal tax cuts to the financial elite. Meanwhile, blue donor states put proportionately more into the federal kitty than ever before.
If you can afford a home that has $10,000 worth of property taxes, then you are part of the "financial elite", and you should be paying more in taxes.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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If you can afford a home that has $10,000 worth of property taxes, then you are part of the "financial elite", and you should be paying more in taxes.
you have no idea what city living is like.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
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If you can afford a home that has $10,000 worth of property taxes, then you are part of the "financial elite", and you should be paying more in taxes.
That's not really true at all. It's important to remember that the SALT limit applies to state income tax deductions as well. Families in high tax high real estate price areas don't have to be much above median at all to start getting clipped.

It's also important to remember that the greatest income inequality exists in the 1%. The difference between 1% entry level income & top incomes is absolutely staggering. The guys at the top just got he biggest taxcuts of all, too.
 
Dec 18, 2010
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www.countrylifenet.com
That's not really true at all. It's important to remember that the SALT limit applies to state income tax deductions as well. Families in high tax high real estate price areas don't have to be much above median at all to start getting clipped.

It's also important to remember that the greatest income inequality exists in the 1%. The difference between 1% entry level income & top incomes is absolutely staggering. The guys at the top just got he biggest taxcuts of all, too.
So you are paying more than $10,000 a year in state income and property tax?

Must be nice to have that kind of money.

If you have that kind of money, I think you need to pay more in taxes.


you have no idea what city living is like.
I have not lived in a "real" city since 2004. At that time I lived in North Houston area.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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So you are paying more than $10,000 a year in state income and property tax?

Must be nice to have that kind of money.

If you have that kind of money, I think you need to pay more in taxes.




I have not lived in a "real" city since 2004. At that time I lived in North Houston area.
you are horrible. Cities already pay the most. You want to tax us more for reasons that are shit.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
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So you are paying more than $10,000 a year in state income and property tax?

Must be nice to have that kind of money.

If you have that kind of money, I think you need to pay more in taxes.




I have not lived in a "real" city since 2004. At that time I lived in North Houston area.
I never said I was. OTOH, Median property tax in New Jersey is $7600/year so if you're paying $2400/yr in state income taxes that's right up against the limit. Those folks aren't even in the same universe as the financial elite making $M's/yr & often paying a federal tax rate lower than they do. Those folks own lavish properties all over the world.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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I never said I was. OTOH, Median property tax in New Jersey is $7600/year so if you're paying $2400/yr in state income taxes that's right up against the limit. Those folks aren't even in the same universe as the financial elite making $M's/yr & often paying a federal tax rate lower than they do. Those folks own lavish properties all over the world.
and they structure them so they are owned by companies and they dont pay personal taxes on them.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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but texashiker a man of the earth wants to tax people making just a little more then him.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
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but texashiker a man of the earth wants to tax people making just a little more then him.
The U.S. deficit is over $1T and our debt is over $20T. We all need to start paying higher taxes as net interest on the debt is already the 4th largest federal spending line item (behind SS, Medicare/Medicaid, and Defense) and it's growing at a 21% rate. At some future point we need to stop deficit/debt growth if not then at some point then debt service will suck up every penny of income tax generated and crowd out all other discretionary spending. Just "taxing the rich" won't cover it even if you taxed at 100% - the top 1% percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent). We need to stop lying to ourselves and be honest that the middle class is going to need to pitch in also if we want the U.S. to not fall into a Greece style debt pit at some point.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
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The U.S. deficit is over $1T and our debt is over $20T. We all need to start paying higher taxes as net interest on the debt is already the 4th largest federal spending line item (behind SS, Medicare/Medicaid, and Defense) and it's growing at a 21% rate. At some future point we need to stop deficit/debt growth if not then at some point then debt service will suck up every penny of income tax generated and crowd out all other discretionary spending. Just "taxing the rich" won't cover it even if you taxed at 100% - the top 1% percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent). We need to stop lying to ourselves and be honest that the middle class is going to need to pitch in also if we want the U.S. to not fall into a Greece style debt pit at some point.
None of that changes the fact that the GOP tax plan is a giveaway to the Rich that actually increased the deficit. If we're to ask ordinary families to sacrifice then we need to demand that the people at the top do so as well. Start there & the rest will follow.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
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None of that changes the fact that the GOP tax plan is a giveaway to the Rich that actually increased the deficit. If we're to ask ordinary families to sacrifice then we need to demand that the people at the top do so as well. Start there & the rest will follow.
LOL you're not a fucking "ordinary family" you dipshit. If you are needing to pay more in taxes due to the SALT cap then you're rich. Period full stop. Poor and middle class folks don't pay five figures worth of state and local taxes. Hell, many of them aren't even assured of even making five figures in a year much less paying that much in state tax. The overwhelming supermajority of Americans don't even pay 10k in federal taxes any given year and the federal rates are multiple times higher than state income tax rates.
 
Sep 5, 2000
24,911
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The U.S. deficit is over $1T and our debt is over $20T. We all need to start paying higher taxes as net interest on the debt is already the 4th largest federal spending line item (behind SS, Medicare/Medicaid, and Defense) and it's growing at a 21% rate. At some future point we need to stop deficit/debt growth if not then at some point then debt service will suck up every penny of income tax generated and crowd out all other discretionary spending. Just "taxing the rich" won't cover it even if you taxed at 100% - the top 1% percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent). We need to stop lying to ourselves and be honest that the middle class is going to need to pitch in also if we want the U.S. to not fall into a Greece style debt pit at some point.
conservatives dont care about deficits. If they did they wouldnt of blown a hole in it. Nice try though.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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LOL you're not a fucking "ordinary family" you dipshit. If you are needing to pay more in taxes due to the SALT cap then you're rich. Period full stop. Poor and middle class folks don't pay five figures worth of state and local taxes. Hell, many of them aren't even assured of even making five figures in a year much less paying that much in state tax. The overwhelming supermajority of Americans don't even pay 10k in federal taxes any given year and the federal rates are multiple times higher than state income tax rates.
people in cities do. You arent rich in a city at 6 figures.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
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conservatives dont care about deficits. If they did they wouldnt of blown a hole in it. Nice try though.
I'm not a conservative and don't give a shit what they want. The people holding our debt won't care what conservatives want WRT deficits either once our debt comes due.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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I love this shit. The gop is arguing for higher taxes for "rich" people. Its code for city liberals. Real rich people got a tax cut.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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I'm not a conservative and don't give a shit what they want. The people holding our debt won't care what conservatives want WRT deficits either once our debt comes due.
u a simple bitch.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
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people in cities do. You arent rich in a city at 6 figures.
You're also not poor enough to need some minimum wage guy working at the Dollar Tree in Iowa to subsidize your state tax bill. Stop being a fucking mooch and pay your own obligations. If you think your federal taxes are too high because you need to also pay high state tax bills then pass a federal tax cut that doesn't exclude everyone else. Raise the standard deduction another few thousand if that's what you need, just make it apply across the board.
 
Sep 5, 2000
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You're also not poor enough to need some minimum wage guy working at the Dollar Tree in Iowa to subsidize your state tax bill. Stop being a fucking mooch and pay your own obligations. If you think your federal taxes are too high because you need to also pay high state tax bills then pass a federal tax cut that doesn't exclude everyone else. Raise the standard deduction another few thousand if that's what you need, just make it apply across the board.
thats such bullshit.
 

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