Andrew Cuomo upset about losing SALT deductions

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Dec 18, 2010
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Please submit yourself for drug testing. New York, Hollywood and many other blue locales have been the ones making sure the government tit stays full of milk. How much do you think some redneck living in his trailer with his sister/wife in ignorant Alabama or Mississippi pays in taxes.

Unless the IRS starts accepting squirrel stew in payment, he'll keep collecting on his food stamps and HUD vouchers, and voting for people like Trump.

And the blue states will being forced to say: "You're Welcome."
Then you should not mind giving up SALT deductions so you can pay even more taxes?
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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That is a very good question. This is not an isolated problem as it is being repeated all over the nation.

When the vote went up, just a few hundred people voted. If one neighborhood had mobilized the vote could have easily passed.

The sad thing, there are minorities, especially black communities, that are being hurt all over the nation by a healthcare problem neither party is willing to address.

If we had some type of universal healthcare system, hopefully hospitals all over the nation could stay in business.

Hopefully ending SALT writeoffs will increase federal taxes and that new money could be spent on healthcare, but I doubt it.
[/QUOTE]

Stop with the bothsiderism. The ACA, imperfect as it is, extended coverage & care to ~20M Americans. Universal implementation of the ACA expansion by State govts would extend that to millions more & help keep small town hospitals open. Dems will expand upon that the first chance we get to build a bridge to universal coverage.

The GOP offers nothing. The Free Market can't deliver or it already would have done so.
 
Dec 18, 2010
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Stop with the bothsiderism. The ACA, imperfect as it is, extended coverage & care to ~20M Americans. Universal implementation of the ACA expansion by State govts would extend that to millions more & help keep small town hospitals open. Dems will expand upon that the first chance we get to build a bridge to universal coverage.

The GOP offers nothing. The Free Market can't deliver or it already would have done so.[/QUOTE]

Let me translate that for you:

The ACA forced citizens to purchase health insurance they could not afford, then fined them when they could not afford to buy said coverage.

Democrat states that expanded medicaid will find it affordable in the coming years as the percentage the states have to pay is increased over time.

When Trump asked if we could put everyone on medicaid he was pretty much mocked.

Let's get serious

What we need is a comprehensive welfare / healthcare reform package.

For example, if a walmart employee is drawing welfare, walmart should have to reimburse the government for that welfare at something like 110%.

If any employee of a fortune 500 company, part time or full time, draws government assistance, the comapny should have to reimburse the government at 110% The 10% is for wasting the governments time.

How many people would that take care of? Maybe millions?

For everyone that does not cover, put them on medicaid for all.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,825
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Since state taxes are generally based on the MAGI (modified adjusted gross income) from the person’s federal return, it does seem the MAGI number would go up with a limited SALT deduction. Thus in turn NY state tax revenue would be higher instead of lower since it was based on a higher MAGI.
So then what the heck is Cuomo talking about?

There's a point to my question. IIRC, the OP posted a tweet, which explained nothing. If Cuomo wants to complain the new SALT deduction rule(s) causes NYS revenue to drop someone needs to call him on it. He owes an explanation.

Fern
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
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Then you should not mind giving up SALT deductions so you can pay even more taxes?
That question seems to have been asked and answered with a resounding no. The people in this thread don't feel like they're the people they've called on to be taxed; they're just "upper middle class." It's some other rich person who needs to be taxed. Or "if you agree to raise marginal rates to 70% first then I'll pay it."

So then what the heck is Cuomo talking about?

There's a point to my question. IIRC, the OP posted a tweet, which explained nothing. If Cuomo wants to complain the new SALT deduction rule(s) causes NYS revenue to drop someone needs to call him on it. He owes an explanation.

Fern
I highly doubt an explanation will be forthcoming since that would require him to come up with a causal explanation. It'd be different if he had just said something like "this is unfair to New Yorkers" since that doesn't involve cause and effect.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
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That question seems to have been asked and answered with a resounding no. The people in this thread don't feel like they're the people they've called on to be taxed; they're just "upper middle class." It's some other rich person who needs to be taxed. Or "if you agree to raise marginal rates to 70% first then I'll pay it."



I highly doubt an explanation will be forthcoming since that would require him to come up with a causal explanation. It'd be different if he had just said something like "this is unfair to New Yorkers" since that doesn't involve cause and effect.
It's fundamentally wrong to shift the tax burden down the scale away from America's under taxed financial elite no matter how that is accomplished. Yet that is precisely what the GOP tax plan accomplishes. That truth invalidates your entire argument.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
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The SALT deduction change closes a loophole for the wealthy(top 5%) and billionaires that they were exploiting in certain states to circumvent their full obligation to federal taxes. The other 95% were paying their full obligation to feds.

This is a tax change that makes taxes more progressive. It is making the wealthy pay more tax, it so happens that they were able to game the system in blue states. The tax rate changes on the rich makes this SALT tax change a wash for the most part(In the current year). However, If i'm reading the link below correctly, the wealthy will be paying more tax by 2025.

https://taxfoundation.org/salt-deduction-repeal-analysis/

You are a liberal, why are you against this?
If that were the motivating factor, then the GOP tax cut would not have made SALT deductions legal and unlimited for corporations, amongst other charges benefiting the weathy.

How does that rate as subsidies and reform?

Truth is the Tax Cut and Jobs act raised taxes in middle-high class, threw some pennies at the lower class, all to give maximum tax breaks to businesses and the wealthy.

Jobs are not being created, only massive debt.

The hand waving to dress this up as some progressive reform effort, wholly out of context of the rest of the bill, is completely laughable and intellectually dishonest or ignorant.

 
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Dec 18, 2010
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So then what the heck is Cuomo talking about?

There's a point to my question. IIRC, the OP posted a tweet, which explained nothing. If Cuomo wants to complain the new SALT deduction rule(s) causes NYS revenue to drop someone needs to call him on it. He owes an explanation.

Fern
I think it is because people are leaving new york, and taking their money with them.

CNBC says something like 800,000 people are getting ready to leave. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=exodus+from+new+york

Since 2010, one million people have left new york, more than any other state - https://www.democratandchronicle.co...-another-190-000-left-other-states/974130001/

Not being able to write off SALT taxes more than 10,000 will cause people to flee high tax states at even a higher rate.
 
Feb 5, 2006
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GOP is getting killed in blue state suburbs over this. They lost all of Orange County, CA, which used to be their stronghold. FYGM Wall Street or California Republicans who are socially liberal but want low taxes are in for a shocker this spring, if they haven't done the math already on losing property and state income tax deductions. It's actually not terrible if you rent, because of the AMT changes, but for homeowners it's pretty bad even now, and when temporary individual tax cuts go away, it's going to get worse.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
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If that were the motivating factor, then the GOP tax cut would not have made SALT deductions legal and unlimited for corporations, amongst other charges benefiting the weathy.

How does that rate as subsidies and reform?

Truth is the Tax Cut and Jobs act raised taxes in middle-high class, threw some pennies at the lower class, all to give maximum tax breaks to businesses and the wealthy.

Jobs are not being created, only massive debt.

The hand waving to dress this up as some progressive reform effort, wholly out of context of the rest of the bill, is completely laughable and intellectually dishonest or ignorant.


Not a CPA but I'm pretty sure state corporate taxes have been deductible for corporations since basically forever; the rules for individual and corporate federal income tax are quite different for one another. Maybe you meant tax treatment for corporate income earned abroad and foreign taxes paid on foreign earned income?

No matter what, i await the ongoing efforts of Dems to repeal SALT limits and how they're going to spin tax relief which goes overwhelmingly to the rich, to somehow be fighting for the "little guy" and progressive taxation. I wonder if progressive heroes like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and AOC will vote yay or nay if it comes up to the floor for a vote.

https://taxfoundation.org/salt-deduction-repeal-analysis/
 
Dec 18, 2010
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GOP is getting killed in blue state suburbs over this. They lost all of Orange County, CA, which used to be their stronghold. FYGM Wall Street or California Republicans who are socially liberal but want low taxes are in for a shocker this spring, if they haven't done the math already on losing property and state income tax deductions. It's actually not terrible if you rent, because of the AMT changes, but for homeowners it's pretty bad even now, and when temporary individual tax cuts go away, it's going to get worse.
It is a course correction for something that should have never happened.

SALT taxes should not be written off federal taxes. State and local taxes should be the responsibility of the people who live in that area.

In short, SALT is not a federal tax issue.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
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GOP is getting killed in blue state suburbs over this. They lost all of Orange County, CA, which used to be their stronghold. FYGM Wall Street or California Republicans who are socially liberal but want low taxes are in for a shocker this spring, if they haven't done the math already on losing property and state income tax deductions. It's actually not terrible if you rent, because of the AMT changes, but for homeowners it's pretty bad even now, and when temporary individual tax cuts go away, it's going to get worse.
When state politics won't bend to your will, smite the whole state. Your own voters in those States? Fuck them, too!
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
50,817
1,319
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It is a course correction for something that should have never happened.

SALT taxes should not be written off federal taxes. State and local taxes should be the responsibility of the people who live in that area.

In short, SALT is not a federal tax issue.
It's a calculated act of political sabotage.
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
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It is a course correction for something that should have never happened.

SALT taxes should not be written off federal taxes. State and local taxes should be the responsibility of the people who live in that area.

In short, SALT is not a federal tax issue.
Of course people are going to be mad because most people aren't honest with themselves. They'll say "I will be happy to pay higher taxes" until the higher taxes happen. My tax liability is going up a decent amount (4 figures) in 2019 because of SALT but I'm still fully supportive of limiting SALT (and indeed obviously would support it going away entirely). If you want for some reason to lower my taxes (because you feel bad about removing SALT or for any other reason) then feel free but do so in a way that doesn't specifically screw over people in other states and make the tax cut applicable to everyone.
 
Dec 18, 2010
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do so in a way that doesn't specifically screw over people in other states and make the tax cut applicable to everyone.
The only people screwing you over is yourself.

Pass high taxes - taxes are not affordable, what do we do?
I know, pass the taxes off to the federal government.
Feds - we are not going to pay for your taxes anymore.
How dare the government not pay our high tax rates.

Did the thought ever cross the minds of people who live in high tax areas that maybe high taxes are a bad idea?
 

glenn1

Elite Member
Sep 6, 2000
23,663
86
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The only people screwing you over is yourself.

Pass high taxes - taxes are not affordable, what do we do?
I know, pass the taxes off to the federal government.
Feds - we are not going to pay for your taxes anymore.
How dare the government not pay our high tax rates.

Did the thought ever cross the minds of people who live in high tax areas that maybe high taxes are a bad idea?
I think you need to re-read what i wrote, I oppose SALT. I said *if* you insist on cutting my taxes, do not cut them in a way that basically ensures my tax cut is not available to and is paid for by people in other states. Basically don’t do what SALT did; if you want to cut everyone’s taxes equally (e.g. raise the personal exemption) and I benefit then great if not then I’ll pass.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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The only people screwing you over is yourself.

Pass high taxes - taxes are not affordable, what do we do?
I know, pass the taxes off to the federal government.
Feds - we are not going to pay for your taxes anymore.
How dare the government not pay our high tax rates.

Did the thought ever cross the minds of people who live in high tax areas that maybe high taxes are a bad idea?
You still are avoiding the point that many, many Red States take more than they give.
Regarding what you said above how is it any different? Shouldn’t the taker States either raise taxes or lower spending or some combination?
 
Dec 18, 2010
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You still are avoiding the point that many, many Red States take more than they give.
Regarding what you said above how is it any different? Shouldn’t the taker States either raise taxes or lower spending or some combination?
Let's see if I can explain this.

Before Free trade: Factories paid taxes, such as property taxes. People had decent jobs that supported the middle class. People bought homes, which they paid property taxes on. People bought stuff locally that had a sales tax.

After free trade: Factories were bulldozed, or taken apart and shipped off. Without that tax revenue from fcoties counties had to shift the tax burden to property owners.

What does this mean? Since the 1980s, 1990s... after GATT and NAFTA were signed, there has been a shift in businesses paying the bulk of local taxes, to homeowners paying the bulk.

Let's throw out some examples.

In the early 1980s Reagan moved the US from domestic oil production to OPEC. What happened? Shipyards all along the gulf coast closed. Local economies collapsed, and some of them have never recovered. With the shipyards gone, local governments lost a large tax source. So what happened? Homeowners had to make up the difference.

Now we are in this problem that SALT is so high people are unable to afford it without writing it off their federal taxes.

Solution?

End free trade, force balanced trade with protectionist policies. Bring the factories back, shift the tax burden from homeowners to factories.

Some people are going to say the business will raise prices to pay off taxes, and that is what should happen.

Let's say a company in Lake Charles Louisiana makes a shirt. That shirt is shipped to new york. Someone in New York buys the shirt. So in essence the person in new york buying the shirt helps pay taxes in Lake Charles.

The important thing is to get the tax burden off the homeowner and put it on factories. From there, the tax burden is shifted to millions of consumers who will pay a microscopic amount in prices adjusted to pay SALT.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Let's see if I can explain this.

Before Free trade: Factories paid taxes, such as property taxes. People had decent jobs that supported the middle class. People bought homes, which they paid property taxes on. People bought stuff locally that had a sales tax.

After free trade: Factories were bulldozed, or taken apart and shipped off. Without that tax revenue from fcoties counties had to shift the tax burden to property owners.

What does this mean? Since the 1980s, 1990s... after GATT and NAFTA were signed, there has been a shift in businesses paying the bulk of local taxes, to homeowners paying the bulk.

Let's throw out some examples.

In the early 1980s Reagan moved the US from domestic oil production to OPEC. What happened? Shipyards all along the gulf coast closed. Local economies collapsed, and some of them have never recovered. With the shipyards gone, local governments lost a large tax source. So what happened? Homeowners had to make up the difference.

Now we are in this problem that SALT is so high people are unable to afford it without writing it off their federal taxes.

Solution?

End free trade, force balanced trade with protectionist policies. Bring the factories back, shift the tax burden from homeowners to factories.

Some people are going to say the business will raise prices to pay off taxes, and that is what should happen.

Let's say a company in Lake Charles Louisiana makes a shirt. That shirt is shipped to new york. Someone in New York buys the shirt. So in essence the person in new york buying the shirt helps pay taxes in Lake Charles.

The important thing is to get the tax burden off the homeowner and put it on factories. From there, the tax burden is shifted to millions of consumers who will pay a microscopic amount in prices adjusted to pay SALT.
You & I are pretty close to agreement with what you said but you dodged should the Federal Tax taker States raise taxes or cut spending because they are taking more than the are getting. Just like high tax states get a bigger tax write off.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
7,049
285
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Not a CPA but I'm pretty sure state corporate taxes have been deductible for corporations since basically forever; the rules for individual and corporate federal income tax are quite different for one another. Maybe you meant tax treatment for corporate income earned abroad and foreign taxes paid on foreign earned income?

No matter what, i await the ongoing efforts of Dems to repeal SALT limits and how they're going to spin tax relief which goes overwhelmingly to the rich, to somehow be fighting for the "little guy" and progressive taxation. I wonder if progressive heroes like Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and AOC will vote yay or nay if it comes up to the floor for a vote.

https://taxfoundation.org/salt-deduction-repeal-analysis/
Considering Republicans sell tax cuts for the top few % as middle class tax cuts, shouldn't be the much of a stretch.

A NYPD detective makes ~$90k
Wife is an RN making $80k

If they want a house, they'll be in upstate or in NJ.

Avj NJ property taxes in NJ is $8500, although to be within reasonable commuting distance, it will likey be more. Either way they easily blew through the SALT limit.

You going to call a cop and a nurse rich people?

So you get to defend why you want to double tax first responders when you cut DJT's estate taxes.

You get to explain why their plummeting home value is making things great again.

You get to defend the cuts to the schools and teacher layoffs that will happen when the tax base gets savaged.

You get to defend the $10,000 logic? If it's "unfair subsidies", why is $9999 ok?

You get to own the exploding deficits and the billionaires getting fatter when it was a win/lose for so many regular folks.

Even if Ds can't get the R Senate to move, they get to beat the crass GOP over this unpopular tax scam in 2020.

Then they can do real tax reform for real people.

And even if that fails... It expires in 2025
 
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Dec 18, 2010
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but you dodged should the Federal Tax taker States raise taxes or cut spending because they are taking more than the are getting. Just like high tax states get a bigger tax write off.
Red states should do more to reduce the amount of federal tax money they take.

A quick search of google came up with a list of lowest income counties in the nation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

Some of the counties are very small with just a few thousand people. Chances are some kind of economic development, such as a factory would help them out.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
97,903
173
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I think it is because people are leaving new york, and taking their money with them.

CNBC says something like 800,000 people are getting ready to leave. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=exodus+from+new+york

Since 2010, one million people have left new york, more than any other state - https://www.democratandchronicle.co...-another-190-000-left-other-states/974130001/

Not being able to write off SALT taxes more than 10,000 will cause people to flee high tax states at even a higher rate.
nah. it's because the market sucks. NY's economy is more heavily based on financial markets than any other state. market sucks, NY tax revenue drops.
 

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