And this is why Texas. For using a gun to defend life and property

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DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
Slovakia
It's my opinion, we can't agree all on the same thing, I'm not really against guns to be here for property protection, but this issue arise the amount of guns between civilians and greatly increases the gun violence, which in terms of killed and injured greatly exceed those injured during burglaries. That's why I would like to ban the guns altogether.

With this thinking, you would have doomed your Czech/Slovak decendants, whom immgrated to Texas (and other parts of the nation) from the 1840s through the 1920s, to terrible fates. My Great Grandfather, along with others from a small Czechoslovakian farming community, suffered loss of property and life at the hands of the KKK (Great Grandfather's barn was burned with livestock inside, and they murdered my Great Uncle). Only when this Czechoslovakian community armed themselves and banded together did this violence and harrasement end. They had to fend for themselve as the local law inforcement WERE acting members of the KKK.

People of all races, genders, nationalities have the right to arm and defend themselves. You take that right away and it will be the innocents who suffer and not the criminals.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
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With this thinking, you would have doomed your Czech/Slovak decendants, whom immgrated to Texas (and other parts of the nation) from the 1840s through the 1920s, to terrible fates. My Great Grandfather, along with others from a small Czechoslovakian farming community, suffered loss of property and life at the hands of the KKK (Great Grandfather's barn was burned with livestock inside, and they murdered my Great Uncle). Only when this Czechoslovakian community armed themselves and banded together did this violence and harrasement end. They had to fend for themselve as the local law inforcement WERE acting members of the KKK.

People of all races, genders, nationalities have the right to arm and defend themselves. You take that right away and it will be the innocents who suffer and not the criminals.


But the government and authorities would NEVER do that again in America..... :rolleyes:
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
With this thinking, you would have doomed your Czech/Slovak decendants, whom immgrated to Texas (and other parts of the nation) from the 1840s through the 1920s, to terrible fates. My Great Grandfather, along with others from a small Czechoslovakian farming community, suffered loss of property and life at the hands of the KKK (Great Grandfather's barn was burned with livestock inside, and they murdered my Great Uncle). Only when this Czechoslovakian community armed themselves and banded together did this violence and harrasement end. They had to fend for themselve as the local law inforcement WERE acting members of the KKK.

People of all races, genders, nationalities have the right to arm and defend themselves. You take that right away and it will be the innocents who suffer and not the criminals.
Mate since 1920s the society and system has changed alot and I'm focused on the current situation, even the gun violence in the US 3-4 years ago was nothing like it is today.
What I really don't understand then, why don't we need the guns in europe, australia, asia and so on? Texas is only place where they break-in to homes and steal stuff? If the system in southern central US is so effective and required to live safely why it is not adopted throughout the world?
 

DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
Mate since 1920s the society and system has changed alot and I'm focused on the current situation, even the gun violence in the US 3-4 years ago was nothing like it is today.
What I really don't understand then, why don't we need the guns in europe, australia, asia and so on? Texas is only place where they break-in to homes and steal stuff? If the system in southern central US is so effective and required to live safely why it is not adopted throughout the world?

That is easy to say from a person who is pretty much from a homogeneous society. Although, Slovakia isn't immune from gun violence. Of all homocides in Slovakia, 45% were committed with firearms (39% US). Slovakia ranks 4th behind Thialand, South Africa, and Columbia (US is ranked 7th). http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_hom_wit_fir-crime-gun-violence-homicides-firearms

After hurricane Katrina, we had a mass migration into our area of these hurricane victims. The result is that crimes of all nature, including violent crimes in our area have increased significantly. I'd have to counter and say society hasn't changed all that much.

Maybe the outcome wouldn't have changed, but do you think the Soviet Union could have acted differently if the Czechoslovakian people had been well armed before the invasion of 20–21 August 1968? Oh, nevermind, now I understand your member name of Sheep221.
 
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Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
You blaming me for my name and opinions but its ok to compare one state vs 50.
And, if our population would have to win over this invasion they would have to be very well armed in order to defeat deployed armies of warsaw pact states. The raw civilians are defensless in any war no matter how well they are armed.
 

DietDrThunder

Platinum Member
Apr 6, 2001
2,262
326
126
You blaming me for my name and opinions but its ok to compare one state vs 50.
And, if our population would have to win over this invasion they would have to be very well armed in order to defeat deployed armies of warsaw pact states. The raw civilians are defensless in any war no matter how well they are armed.

I'm just giving a little you a little taste of what it is like to be criticized for your opinion. Doesn't feel good when it is about your own country, does it? No response to Slovakia's homicide percentage via firearms that is higher than the US? It sounds like a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. As far as victory against the Soviets, it took Afghanistan a long time, but they got the job done.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
I'm just giving a little you a little taste of what it is like to be criticized for your opinion. Doesn't feel good when it is about your own country, does it? No response to Slovakia's homicide percentage via firearms that is higher than the US? It sounds like a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. As far as victory against the Soviets, it took Afghanistan a long time, but they got the job done.

To be fair, they got the job done with American assistance and heavy weapons. If we hadn't intervened the Soviets likely would have continued depopulating Afghanistan.
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
33,233
12,758
136
Mate since 1920s the society and system has changed alot and I'm focused on the current situation, even the gun violence in the US 3-4 years ago was nothing like it is today.
What I really don't understand then, why don't we need the guns in europe, australia, asia and so on? Texas is only place where they break-in to homes and steal stuff? If the system in southern central US is so effective and required to live safely why it is not adopted throughout the world?

gun violence in the US was worse 3-4 years ago. it was also worse 10-20 years ago.

violent crime has been dropping here for over 2 decades. "mass shootings" have stayed roughly constant. the difference is you are bombarded by the media about it now, as opposed to 10-20 years ago.
 

OCNewbie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2000
7,596
24
81
If would seem that 1 homeowner successfully confronting a burglar with a firearm is well worth 100 innocent people being maliciously murdered by a firearm, with both scenarios being enabled by their high availability. The right to defend your home with a firearm has these real world consequences, and you cannot have one without the other, so I would like people arguing the merits of this real world trade off.

How frequently do you think mass shootings, where situations play out where "100 innocent people being maliciously murdered by a firearm", are NOT aired on national, if not international news?

Now consider how frequently people successfully deter or prevent crime in their own homes because of their use or possession of a firearm? How frequently do you think those stories make national or international news?

Would you have heard about the story in the OP had there not been video of it?

If the relevant statistics were only the incidents that became national news, then sure, your argument would have some merit.
 

Rakehellion

Lifer
Jan 15, 2013
12,181
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And should but if the guy had continued to walk off with his TV, there's nothing he could legally do. Sad as it is.

Legally speaking, a car isn't supposed to hit a pedestrian under any circumstances, yet it's still a smart move to look both ways before crossing the street.

A criminal with a gun pointed at him isn't going to say "I know my rights!" and walk off.
 

Puddle Jumper

Platinum Member
Nov 4, 2009
2,835
1
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Mate since 1920s the society and system has changed alot and I'm focused on the current situation, even the gun violence in the US 3-4 years ago was nothing like it is today.

Your right, gun violence in the US was higher 3-4 years ago than it is now.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
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Actually in Texas, he could have shot. Legally. The guy was on his land or the private land of another in the commission of a felony. The home owner didn't even have to give the courtesy of saying hello the the thief. Could have come out with shotgun and shot him in the face without so much as a Howdy Do.

Damn that's rude. At least say Howdy do, man.

"Howdy do." BLAM!
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Can someone summarize? I can't watch the video in the link.

Man and neighborhood been recently burglarized with a string of home break ins. Guy went out and bought a shotgun. Caught a thief walking out of his next door neighbors house with a TV and ran out the side of his house door with shotgun in hand. Made thief put down TV, and then lay on the ground until police arrived. Thief went to jail and the good guys got to keep their property.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,001
571
126
Man and neighborhood been recently burglarized with a string of home break ins. Guy went out and bought a shotgun. Caught a thief walking out of his next door neighbors house with a TV and ran out the side of his house door with shotgun in hand. Made thief put down TV, and then lay on the ground until police arrived. Thief went to jail and the good guys got to keep their property.

I see a better man than I.
 

Chuck_v

Member
Jan 21, 2013
82
0
0
All those who say you need weapons to protect your home and property are idiots, thieves are most of the time unarmend and harmless, installing an alarm into house and not to forget to lock the door and close windows, the actual scene in your link was embarrassing, the dude could not stop the guy running with his TV without aiming shotgun at him. Pathetism at its beauty.

I came home one day in 2010 shortly after Thanksgiving and two POS had invaded my home. Both were armed. I was armed and I evened the playing field with my .45 revolver. I took them under citizens arrest and called the police, it took the police twenty minutes to find my home that is approximately a half a mile from the police station. Turns out the two POS were career violent felons. One was just released from prison about a month earlier and the other was on parole a whole week. If you are so dead set on not having a gun to protect yourself, your loved ones or your personal property then do not have a gun or rifle in your home. That is your right. As for myself I will not depend on others to protect me, my loved ones or my property and that is my right of choice. I challenge you to put a sign in your front yard stating you have made the choice to have a gun free home. Be sure and let us all know how that works out for you in the long run.
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
I came home one day in 2010 shortly after Thanksgiving and two POS had invaded my home. Both were armed. I was armed and I evened the playing field with my .45 revolver. I took them under citizens arrest and called the police, it took the police twenty minutes to find my home that is approximately a half a mile from the police station. Turns out the two POS were career violent felons. One was just released from prison about a month earlier and the other was on parole a whole week. If you are so dead set on not having a gun to protect yourself, your loved ones or your personal property then do not have a gun or rifle in your home. That is your right. As for myself I will not depend on others to protect me, my loved ones or my property and that is my right of choice. I challenge you to put a sign in your front yard stating you have made the choice to have a gun free home. Be sure and let us all know how that works out for you in the long run.
If both guys were armed. You just popped out your gun and they surrendered?

I'm just giving a little you a little taste of what it is like to be criticized for your opinion. Doesn't feel good when it is about your own country, does it? No response to Slovakia's homicide percentage via firearms that is higher than the US? It sounds like a little bit of the pot calling the kettle black. As far as victory against the Soviets, it took Afghanistan a long time, but they got the job done.
Your statistic is completely wrong and off reality, the gun violence in SK is atleast 10 times lower than in US. Than again your comparison is wrong either as you are comparing 300 million US and single europe country, comprising about 5 million people. How accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
If both guys were armed. You just popped out your gun and they surrendered?

Your statistic is completely wrong and off reality, the gun violence in SK is atleast 10 times lower than in US. Than again your comparison is wrong either as you are comparing 300 million US and single europe country, comprising about 5 million people. How accurate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Here is the problem with statistic cross comparing countries. They don't usually isolate variables that make massively differences in the data.

You could cross compare data sets, but here is how you would have to do it.

First find rates for violent crime (assault, murder, rape, and armed robbery). You need to then start doing dissection of that data and cross comparison of many factors.

1) Isolate how the crime was committed by choice of weapon (or bare handed).
2) Compare that to average incidents per year. Both in gross amount and per capita.
3) Isolate where incidents are occurring. Chances are, the vast majority of all crime in any country are at high population areas. IE big cities.
4) Measure against other factors in cross comparison for massive populations (1mil +), high pops (500k+), and high pops (200K+). These other factors will include: poverty levels. Relative size of crime areas as well as poverty areas. Ethnic and cultural diversity areas. Education levels also play a major role.


Now you are starting to get in actual useable data when you start making those kinds of cross comparison. But I'll save you the trouble as many people have done much of this work. The answers are these.

1) Regardless of country the vast majority of crime happens in higher population centers. The more people, the higher the raw number and per capita rates of violent crime.

2) In areas with severe economic barriers, lots of very poor compared to middle-class and rich will have higher rates of crime. Basically those with nothing to lose typically cause more crimes.

3) Areas that have severe ethnic or cultural differences suffer higher rates of crime. The more "homogenous" a given group of people are the lower the crime rate.

4) The higher average of a populations education level has reduced violent crime. Not always reduced overall crime as some areas with higher education levels may have increased white collar, non violent crimes.

5) When cross comparing all the crimes rates with the data from the first 3 points, several key factors emerge. These are as follows:

5a) Increased access to firearms for a given population is inversely proportional to violent crime rate in most forms of violent crimes. Meaning if people are armed to defend themselves they are more likely to prevent a crime against them from happening.

5b) Increased access to firearms means that crimes that do happen also have an increased likelyhood to have a firearm used in the crime.

5c) In areas with severe limits upon guns for a populace, crime rates sharp spikely. The choice of weapon used in those crimes shifts from guns to a different weapon of choice depending upon the cultural areas. For example more rural areas tend to have farm tools used in more crimes where guns are restricted while more urban areas would use knives of blunt objects of some sort.




When you look at GOOD data statistic that isolate variables for better cross comparison, it becomes abundantly clear on a few points. Want to reduce violent crime? These are the major factors in doing so.

1) Thin out the population. (this is hard to do if not impossible)
2) Increase the average education level of a populace. This also does many other good things for a population.
3) Reduce poverty levels and decrease unemployment. People that no longer have idle hands, something to lose, and something to look forward to every day in their lives don't commit violent crimes usually. Increased education is directly proportional to this one too.
4) Create a more homogenous population (this is hard to do if not impossible in most places)
5) Let law abiding citizens defend themselves with guns.


That's about it. The fun thing is that the US has been doing all 4 things over the last 4 decades and it has SHOWN in our crime statistics. They are WAY down across the board and go lower every year. Compare that to other countries that aren't seeking to do something along the lines of the 4 points listed above and those countries have steady or even increased violent crime. Numbers 2, 3, and 5 are key factors that any country can implement to reduce crime rates.

The thing to notice when looking at the better cross comparison data that isolates various variables is that when guns are scarce, other weapons/methods are used instead. Removal of access to guns for any population has never been shown to reduce violent crimes anywhere. At least from countries that report enough data that allows cross comparison of crime data based on the isolate variables I've posted about.