and this is why Christians have such a bad name...

[AstroManLuca]

Do you think you eclipsed this so called disappointing human achievement for not doing the same? Oh wow, you're not religious. Doesn't make you anymore advanced than someone that is religious.
You sound just as bad as any evangelical Christian using the same arrogant methods.

I think you're being harsh, all he said was he doesn't think the Bible is special in terms of promoting morality. More like it's just one of many, many books and philosophies over the course of human history that have helped us become more civilized.

 

[foghorn67]

I think you're being harsh, all he said was he doesn't think the Bible is special in terms of promoting morality. More like it's just one of many, many books and philosophies over the course of human history that have helped us become more civilized.

A true Christian is one who worships Jesus Christ, ancient Jewish man rumored to have been murdered during his time, as a god. I don't think that's necessarily a high watermark of human accomplishment, so I don't understand your disappointment.

there.

 

[Farmer]

there.

What?

 

[Paladin3]

What about the part that says you are condemned to hell for not believing in Christ? What about the part that says we are to make disciples of all nations and baptize them as Christians? No, I don't see ANY value in following those teachings.

Isn't it funny that Christian apologists choose to emphasize the Golden Rule (which wasn't even an original idea at the time), and conveniently ignore all the other batshit crazy things Christ said?

Yes, I understand that idea very well, but you don't have to believe the Bible as presented today is 100% accurate or true to believe, enjoy or follow the teachings of Jesus. I just read a book titled "Misquoting Jesus" about how parts of the Bible were obviously changed to suit the writers needs. The argument that the Bible is the infallible word of God is hard to swallow, exactly because of the "batshit crazy" things it says.

But as a person very much concerned with the current state of humanity I can't throw out the positive ideas Christ had because I don't believe everything the Bible says.

Gandhi taught some rocking stuff but he supposedly had young girls sleep in his bed so he could test his resolve when he didn't have sex with them. Mother Teressa often did little more than give suffering people a mat and a blanket to continue their suffering on. There is still much I can learn from them even if I disagree with some of the things they said or did.

Buddhists teach universal compassion and I can love that about them even though I may not be on board with everything else they teach. If more people want to become Buddhists I fully support that as a net positive for mankind.

Cliffs: Many parts of many religions, especially the love teachings of Jesus, would have a net beneficial effect on mankind if they were followed. We can't just ignore that because we don't personally believe or some choose to use religion for evil.

 

[foghorn67]

What?

obtuse.

 

[Jeff7]

I think your example fails in the light of:

Salem witch trials
Spanish Inquisition
Spanish Conquistadors
Nazi extermination camps
Crimes committed during the black death - too many to list


Christians had a bad name long before that lady called the radio station

Hypathia, of Alexandria, who dared to commit such crimes as teach philosophy and astronomy, as well as being a woman (*gasp*).
A kindly mob of compassionate Christians killed her, skinned her, and burned her, possibly in that order.
Just following God's unchanging and loving rules for living.

Feel the love of Jesus, or we'll kill you until you do.

 

[Paladin3]

The point is that Jesus's teachings, while they may have been revolutionary during his time, are pretty much accepted as what makes someone a good person today. So while it makes sense to do many of the things Jesus said to do, it doesn't make sense to worship him or to follow every word for the sole reason that he said it.

In other words, be nice because you want to be a nice person and because doing so makes the world a better place, not because Jesus said to.

I really don't care the reason someone chooses to be a decent, productive member of society, I only applaud those who are. If you have the resolve from within to do so then more power to you. If religion and threat of damnation from above is what it takes for others then bring on the fire and brimstone.

 

[Paladin3]

Hypathia, of Alexandria, who dared to commit such crimes as teach philosophy and astronomy, as well as being a woman (*gasp*).
A kindly mob of compassionate Christians killed her, skinned her, and burned her, possibly in that order.
Just following God's unchanging and loving rules for living.

Feel the love of Jesus, or we'll kill you until you do.

And the church down the street from my house holds a free community meal twice a week for anyone who is hungry. No sermon, just a quick prayer and then everyone eats regardless of their personal beliefs.

Which of the two activities do you think more of today's Christians would advocate?

 

[Farmer]

obtuse.

Unclear.

 

[Lonbjerg]

This is basically my position. I don't have a problem with people believing in Jesus, but I don't think religion is necessary to live a moral life. Just use some common sense and don't be a complete jerk. I didn't need religion to tell me that.

However, it is important to recognize that Christianity is at least partially responsible for things like the Golden Rule being common sense today. No, Christianity is not the sole defender of good morals, but our modern society's ideas of right and wrong were at least partly inspired by Christianity. So I'll give them that.

Bollocks

All our greatest progresses come from have LESS religion.

Freedom of speech.
Gender equality.
Civil rights.
Democray.
Scientific progress.

None of those come from religion.

Infact take a close look at the 10 commandments...not much moral in there.

 

[Lonbjerg]

And the church down the street from my house holds a free community meal twice a week for anyone who is hungry. No sermon, just a quick prayer and then everyone eats regardless of their personal beliefs.

Which of the two activities do you think more of today's Christians would advocate?

So you need religion to feed the hungry?
Scary...

 

[AstroManLuca]

Bollocks

All our greatest progresses come from have LESS religion.

Freedom of speech.
Gender equality.
Civil rights.
Democray.
Scientific progress.

None of those come from religion.

Infact take a close look at the 10 commandments...not much moral in there.

That's why I said IN PART.

Why don't you look at the ten commandments yourself?

The first few are all about worshiping God; nothing really moral in there. You can believe in a different God or believe in no god at all and still be a good person.

But there are also commandments against murder, adultery, theft, lying, and jealousy. Are you saying those aren't morally important?

I never said the Bible was the sole protector of morality, but it has certainly had a part in informing our current ideas of what is good and bad.

If you argue that Christianity or any other religion is purely evil then you are just as bad as someone who claims that you must join one religion or another in order to be a good person.

 

[Lonbjerg]

That's why I said IN PART.

Why don't you look at the ten commandments yourself?

The first few are all about worshiping God; nothing really moral in there. You can believe in a different God or believe in no god at all and still be a good person.

But there are also commandments against murder, adultery, theft, lying, and jealousy. Are you saying those aren't morally important?

I never said the Bible was the sole protector of morality, but it has certainly had a part in informing our current ideas of what is good and bad.

If you argue that Christianity or any other religion is purely evil then you are just as bad as someone who claims that you must join one religion or another in order to be a good person.

You really should take a closer look..lets eg. look at the "jealousy" bit:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

No "servant" is a typical things that happens with bible translation: It's false.
It slave.

You must not be jealous about your neighbourgs slaves...where is the commandments speaking against slavery?!

Christianity is responsible for countless crime...and for holding progress back for centuries.

There is nothing good about using lies as a "guideline"...religion is the root of all evil...open a historybook.

But then again you might think otherwise if you are from the US, as it was mostly founded be the religious thrash kicked out of Europe....if the foundation is rotten, the roof is affected...

 

[Aikouka]

The woman is pretty nutty. Observance of holidays is not based on how religious you are... it is simply whether or not your place of employment wishes to observe the holiday (or any other days as part of a break for said holiday).

Although, I don't find part of her logic flawed. Why should a church openly accept someone whose lifestyle is outright defiant of the rules defined for the religion of that church? Now, I'm not talking about acceptance in regard to conversion. To give an example, what if one of the members of your congregation admitted that they are gay. Would this be acceptable? You shouldn't hate the person obviously; however, how can you accept someone as a valued member of your church when the person is in obvious defiance of the rules?

One of the things I hated the most about religion is how the followers have no problem breaking the rules, because, "God will forgive me!" It reminds me of this one time during college. I was in the cafeteria and sitting with a friend who was talking about having sex with his girlfriend the night before. Of course, he's saying all of this with ash on his forehead (Ash Wednesday obviously). Hypocrisy much?

 

[AstroManLuca]

You really should take a closer look..lets eg. look at the "jealousy" bit:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbor's.

No "servant" is a typical things that happens with bible translation: It's false.
It slave.

You must not be jealous about your neighbourgs slaves...where is the commandments speaking against slavery?!

You're still not hearing me. I never said the Bible was a perfect moral compass, just that it isn't all bad and that some parts are good. There are definitely parts of the Bible that aren't at all applicable to today's world. You would advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And you only singled out one passage. What about the parts that say you shouldn't lie, cheat, steal, or kill? My only point was that the Bible has some good morality in it, and you haven't refuted that. Unless you can somehow make the point that lying, cheating, stealing, or killing is morally justified.

Christianity is responsible for countless crime...and for holding progress back for centuries.

There is nothing good about using lies as a "guideline"...religion is the root of all evil...open a historybook.

Nice whitewashing of the entire argument. How can you even pretend to have a worthwhile opinion on this matter? You clearly hate religion and aren't willing to listen to any argument defending it, even if it's a NON-religious person only HALF defending it.

News flash, horrible things happened in the world before religion even existed. Horrible things have happened in the name of religion, and also in the name of non-religious political philosophies. It's human nature that some people are simply power hungry and have no ability to show kindness or mercy to others. We have to work against that sort of thing, and I don't think it matters if you do so from a religious standpoint or a secular one.

Think of how much good in the world comes from people, both religious and non-religious. Religion is NOT the cause of evil, nor is it a cause of good. It's just a motivator for some people to do the things that they would have done anyway. Either it serves as their way of justifying atrocities, or it gives them more reason to be charitable.

But then again you might think otherwise if you are from the US, as it was mostly founded be the religious thrash kicked out of Europe....if the foundation is rotten, the roof is affected...

And now you show your true colors. It figures that you wouldn't listen to an American opinion since you obviously have this blind hatred and jealousy for America.

 

[Lonbjerg]

What is even more funny is that Easter is stolen form the pagan Mithras...so see is mad she can't get off on a pagan feast...

 

[Lonbjerg]

You're still not hearing me. I never said the Bible was a perfect moral compass, just that it isn't all bad and that some parts are good. There are definitely parts of the Bible that aren't at all applicable to today's world. You would advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

No, I am simply saying we don't need the religious lies in order to be "good".
Let the old superstions die and use the resources at something better.

And you only singled out one passage. What about the parts that say you shouldn't lie, cheat, steal, or kill? My only point was that the Bible has some good morality in it, and you haven't refuted that. Unless you can somehow make the point that lying, cheating, stealing, or killing is morally justified.

Is killing in selfdefence a "sin"?
Is killing in war a "sin"?

Nice whitewashing of the entire argument. How can you even pretend to have a worthwhile opinion on this matter? You clearly hate religion and aren't willing to listen to any argument defending it, even if it's a NON-religious person only HALF defending it.

I don't hate religion...I leave the hate to the religious muppets.
I do however despise lies..and people who spread lies.

BIG difference...so get off you high horse.

And now you show your true colors. It figures that you wouldn't listen to an American opinion since you obviously have this blind hatred and jealousy for America.

Again with the flawed asumptions...nice own goal.
I actually likes a lot about the US.
But the religious babble and dribble (like ID) that you also are responsible for makes me sick.

And it have roots in who build the nation.
Religious muppets...and you still suffer from it...even if a lot of other things that have come since a great.

Nice own goal.

Protip: Don't talk about what I do or don't do next time...It will save you from looking like a tool.

 

[mk]

But there are also commandments against murder, adultery, theft, lying, and jealousy. Are you saying those aren't morally important?

I never said the Bible was the sole protector of morality, but it has certainly had a part in informing our current ideas of what is good and bad.

It's ridiculous to even suggest that we have to thank the Bible for informing us that the bolded items are harmful to human relations. These injunctions are hardly revolutionary, they've been present in pretty much every single successful culture that has ever existed. Listing them doesn't make the Bible a vital source of morality.

There are hundreds of commandments in the Bible, many of which wouldn't be considered moral by today's standards and obvious ones like forbidding slavery and child abuse for example aren't anywhere on the list.

 

[Nik]

"The List" is in Matthew 5 during Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. The Old Testament law, including the 10 Commandments, are no longer law. Jesus' dying on the cross fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant and the Old Testament Law, which is why Christ sat down and said "Okay, new game plan, since I'm going to die on the cross for all yall's sins. Here's the rules..."

If you're going to bash the Bible and the laws it sets, you'd better know what the hell you're talking about.

 

[Lonbjerg]

"The List" is in Matthew 5 during Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. The Old Testament law, including the 10 Commandments, are no longer law. Jesus' dying on the cross fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant and the Old Testament Law, which is why Christ sat down and said "Okay, new game plan, since I'm going to die on the cross for all yall's sins. Here's the rules..."

If you're going to bash the Bible and the laws it sets, you'd better know what the hell you're talking about.

That the bible claims something dosn't mean it's worth 5 cups of piss...

 

[mk]

"The List" is in Matthew 5 during Jesus' Sermon on the Mount. The Old Testament law, including the 10 Commandments, are no longer law. Jesus' dying on the cross fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant and the Old Testament Law, which is why Christ sat down and said "Okay, new game plan, since I'm going to die on the cross for all yall's sins. Here's the rules..."

If you're going to bash the Bible and the laws it sets, you'd better know what the hell you're talking about.

I was under the impression that Matthew 5:17-19 specifically states that OT Law still stands and that Jesus' dying on the cross fulfilled the sacrificial part of the Covenant only, removing the need to sacrifice animals to God.

 

[AstroManLuca]

That the bible claims something dosn't mean it's worth 5 cups of piss...

Why are you even participating in this discussion if you don't care what is in the Bible?

 

[Lonbjerg]

Why are you even participating in this discussion if you don't care what is in the Bible?

Because religious muppets try and attach value and thruth to the lies...and that needs to be spoken against.

 

[foghorn67]

What is even more funny is that Easter is stolen form the pagan Mithras...so see is mad she can't get off on a pagan feast...

No, the non religious Hallmark Easter holiday was stolen from a pagan holiday. Christians celebrating Easter had nothing to do with this in early church history.

 

[Lonbjerg]

No, the non religious Hallmark Easter holiday was stolen from a pagan holiday. Christians celebrating Easter had nothing to do with this in early church history.

You should look again.
And it's not even the only pagan feast they stole.
Here in Scandinavia we don't celebrate "christmas" (Christ mass).

We use all of the pagan rituals (presents, ornamented tree, food ect.) and still use the pagan name for it: Jul (Yule)

Now you try and look into where eastereggs, the easterbunny ect.) really come from,