And of course, no one can get shot without some mention of gun control...

[JSt0rm]

Why is an suv or 4x4 needed for most people? Why are mcmansions needed? Why is anything other than food, clothing, shelter, water, and air needed?

interesting you bring up the 4x4 analogy.

Below is street legal

And this is not

So things arent as black and white as you put them.

 

[xj0hnx]

interesting you bring up the 4x4 analogy.

Below is street legal
big truck

And this is not
bigger truck

So things arent as black and white as you put them.

And? It doesn't change the fact that many, many, many people have things they do not, and never will need. We don't just ban things from responsible owners because you don't see a need for them.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Well considering what just happened I think that yeah they do kinda pose a "super threat" but whatever...

2 planes fly into a building and we go to war for decades and lose lots of our rights.

A bullet enters the head of a congress person and you will never see any congress person without a security detachment and a bunch of laws will be written by those people to protect themselves.

Seems logical considering the proportional responses we are known for.

Then, by your logic, I demand all vehicles are outlawed because a HELL of a lot more people die in a month from them than have EVER died from 30rnd magazines. I also demand cigarettes, alcohol, and fatty foods be banned immediately. Any time anything injures 15 and kills 5 I demand it be banned immediately, unless it is absolutely essential to the continuation of life.

IF you do that, I'll concede on the gun issue. If you don't, then you're not actually upset at all, you're just seeking your own personal biased agenda.

 

[irishScott]

Is that a reality? Please show me anywhere that a 30 round pistol clip was used for good.

Admittedly I can't off the top of my head. The fact that positive gun use is rarely reported (and the specs even rarer) doesn't exactly help when searching. But even assuming your argument holds, where do you draw the line on ammo capacity? Can I own 25 rounds? Can I own 2 15 rounders? Or how about we go back to the days of the assault weapons ban and I can carry 3 10s? How exactly does limiting magazine capacity stop me, as a hypothetical criminal, if I really want to kill someone?

 

[Fenixgoon]

And this surprises you why exactly?

It is kind of hard to defend legal gun ownership when this guy bought a gun legally and then goes on a shooting spree killing 6 people and wounding 14 more.

And before you get your panties in a knot, I am a gun owner and am pro gun. I'm anti-gun nut though. I'm also anti-rightwinger, anti-Glenn Beck, and anti-Rush Limbaugh.

then why aren't there so many more shootings like this? seems to me like a better background check would solve this sort of thing (i don't know what current checks are like, tbh)

 

[irishScott]

Well considering what just happened I think that yeah they do kinda pose a "super threat" but whatever...

2 planes fly into a building and we go to war for decades and lose lots of our rights.

A bullet enters the head of a congress person and you will never see any congress person without a security detachment and a bunch of laws will be written by those people to protect themselves.

Seems logical considering the proportional responses we are known for.

So you point out inane reactions, then attempt to justify your idea because it's also inane? Are you retarded?

 

[Fingolfin269]

So for those who want to get rid of the 30 round mag, what is your proposal for capacity maximum? Why that number?

 

[xj0hnx]

Admittedly I can't off the top of my head. The fact that positive gun use is rarely reported (and the specs even rarer) doesn't exactly help when searching. But even assuming your argument holds, where do you draw the line on ammo capacity? Can I own 25 rounds? Can I own 2 15 rounders? Or how about we go back to the days of the assault weapons ban and I can carry 3 10s? How exactly does limiting magazine capacity stop me, as a hypothetical criminal?

It doesn't, and they know it, but that doesn't stop them from pushing their agenda.

 

[JSt0rm]

Admittedly I can't off the top of my head. The fact that positive gun use is rarely reported (and the specs even rarer) doesn't exactly help when searching. But even assuming your argument holds, where do you draw the line on ammo capacity? Can I own 25 rounds? Can I own 2 15 rounders? Or how about we go back to the days of the assault weapons ban and I can carry 3 10s? How exactly does limiting magazine capacity stop me, as a hypothetical criminal, if I really want to kill someone?

You can own as many magazines and rounds of ammo as you want I guess. I think that a situation where someone has gone crazy and is firing round after round into a crowd should be a situation where round after round before reload is 9 or whatever fits in a normal handle. I'm not a gun person so I have no idea what pistol has the largest stock magazine.

 

[Hacp]

It doesn't, and they know it, but that doesn't stop them from pushing their agenda.

The liberal agenda is to control the population and limit individual freedom. They want to ruin the US and make us a socialist mecca. Well to all the liberals I say FUCK YOU. For freedom. For liberty. For America!

 

[JSt0rm]

So you point out inane reactions, then attempt to justify your idea because it's also inane? Are you retarded?

i'm not justifying. I'm just saying dont be surprised because there is a reaction of this magnitude.

 

[JSt0rm]

Then, by your logic, I demand all vehicles are outlawed because a HELL of a lot more people die in a month from them than have EVER died from 30rnd magazines. I also demand cigarettes, alcohol, and fatty foods be banned immediately. Any time anything injures 15 and kills 5 I demand it be banned immediately, unless it is absolutely essential to the continuation of life.

IF you do that, I'll concede on the gun issue. If you don't, then you're not actually upset at all, you're just seeking your own personal biased agenda.

The above is the usual righty black and white all or nothing thinking. We need to find sensible middle grounds for all of those issues you mentioned.

 

[BoberFett]

Why is a 30 round magazine even needed?

Why are $500 meals needed? Every time some prick like you pays that much for a meal, you should handed a bowl of cold oatmeal and the money can be used to feed a hundred homeless people.

Or maybe, just maybe, it's none of your goddam business why somebody wants a 30 round mag.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

- A gun is a tool. It can be used to kill, it can be used to shoot clay or paper targets, it can be used to hunt and attain food. In the end it is a tool whose purpose is determined by it's user intent.

- Planes are a tools of mass transportation. They can be used to transport goods and people from point A to point B. A plane can also be used as a weapon and be rammed into structures containing people or as a weapon platform to drop ordinance. In the end planes are tools whose purpose is determined by their users intent.

When 9/11 occurred we didn't go on to ban the certain types of planes or try to regulate long range fuel tanks on planes going or coming from overseas. It was after all understood by reasonable people that terrorists were the ones who went about using a tool as a weapon. So instead we went after the individuals and their organization that decided to use these tools to harm us as a nation.

So now we have a congresswoman who was shot by some nutcase. What is the reaction? Some people instead of targeting the individuals or persons responsible for the crime want to push for bans either due to ignorance and fear or out of opportunity to push a false sense of security onto the overall public.

A resident of California I can tell you that we have one the of the toughest gun laws in the US but you still hear about shootings on a almost weakly basis in places like Richmond, Oakland, Vallejo, etc. Why? Because gun laws only effect those willing to follow the law and thus a thriving black market has flourished for those who could careless about following CA's gun laws.

Gun bans do not work period and this has been demonstrate time after time when crime stats are compared on a state by state or city by city basis. What happened was unfortunate but again had the perp used a car to mow down and kill those people then any mention of a ban or regulation on cars (limiting their top speed for example) would be seen as a stupid and hollow gesture because we would punishing everyone else for a crime committed by one deranged individual.

 

[JSt0rm]

The liberal agenda is to control the population and limit individual freedom. They want to ruin the US and make us a socialist mecca. Well to all the liberals I say FUCK YOU. For freedom. For liberty. For America!

The question remains how would you stop this liberal socialist agenda? With gunfire? I hear this a lot out of you guys on this board. I've shot a gun like 4 times in my life (around experts at a range) so you can rest assured I am not going to confront you with physical harm.

 

[irishScott]

You can own as many magazines and rounds of ammo as you want I guess. I think that a situation where someone has gone crazy and is firing round after round into a crowd should be a situation where round after round before reload is 9 or whatever fits in a normal handle. I'm not a gun person so I have no idea what pistol has the largest stock magazine.

Depends on the gun. Sub-compact ultra-concealable weapons usually carry 6+1 in the chamber. Full sized handguns (excluding 1911s) usually carry 10-20 depending on caliber. That's flush with the handle. Anything beyond that extends past the handle. Theoretically you could fire off a 300 round magazine if it existed and you could get to the top of it.

I know of no pistol that comes with a stock 30 round mag, but stock magazines don't really matter given the huge number of aftermarket magazine makers out there.

 

[her209]

then why aren't there so many more shootings like this?

There are. I believe last week there was one. Everyone remembers the gun man in the classroom. Then there's the anti-government guy that killed that police officer in California led police on a chase into Oakland. There's more, but those are just the ones that jump to my mind.

 

[JSt0rm]

Why are $500 meals needed? Every time some prick like you pays that much for a meal, you should handed a bowl of cold oatmeal and the money can be used to feed a hundred homeless people.

I actually recommend eating oatmeal the day after such a meal

Or maybe, just maybe, it's none of your goddam business why somebody wants a 30 round mag.

Well the reality for those people is that it became their business. Like real fast.

 

[BoberFett]

I actually recommend eating oatmeal the day after such a meal

Well the reality for those people is that it became their business. Like real fast.

And your greed is everyone else's business, is it not?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

There are. I believe last week there was one. Everyone remembers the gun man in the classroom. Then there's the anti-government guy that killed that police officer in California led police on a chase into Oakland. There's more, but those are just the ones that jump to my mind.

Oakland's and CA's strict gun laws did an awesome job at preventing this fiasco right?

 

[JSt0rm]

And your greed is everyone else's business, is it not?

It's not greed. That $500 meal provided for a small farm in upstate ny and a chef who is upper middle class and raising his family and a family owned winery in napa valley.

I would say things like $500 meals ad $500 denim do more to provide monies for the middle classes in THIS country then shopping at walmart and eating McDonalds ever will.

Everyone of us has things we value. The problem on the planet is not that each of us consumes or what we consume its that ever decade that goes by there are more and more of us consuming.

 

[irishScott]

Oakland's and CA's strict gun laws did an awesome job at preventing this fiasco right?

Oh it wasn't their fault. It was all of those bordering "gun crime exporting" Red states. Obviously if everyone adopted California's version of gun control gun crime would just disappear.

 

[Darwin333]

And this surprises you why exactly?

It is kind of hard to defend legal gun ownership when this guy bought a gun legally and then goes on a shooting spree killing 6 people and wounding 14 more.

And before you get your panties in a knot, I am a gun owner and am pro gun. I'm anti-gun nut though. I'm also anti-rightwinger, anti-Glenn Beck, and anti-Rush Limbaugh.

Dupnik said the shooter had previous run-ins with the law and had threatened to kill someone before.

That is a felony. If the good sheriff had done his job properly then he would have been able to take away any guns he had already purchased and the background check would have prevented him from buying another one legally. We need new laws because existing ones weren't enforced?

Furthermore, since he was batshit fucking crazy do you really think him being legally able to purchase a gun had any impact on the situation? It is just as easy to purchase a blackmarket gun as it is drugs. Or he could have used a car. Or he could have used fertilizer and diesel fuel. A hunting rifle or shotgun. Learned to fly and used a plane. Etc... Crazy fuckers willing to do shit like that usually find a way to do crazy shit.

Cops "accidentally" or negligently kill roughly one innocent person a day in this country. Do we need to impose new gun laws on them too?

I have heard that he threatened to kill law enforcement but I haven't seen a reputable story for it yet (haven't looked real hard either).

 

[PrinceofWands]

The above is the usual righty black and white all or nothing thinking. We need to find sensible middle grounds for all of those issues you mentioned.

Except that I'm not even close to a righty, and all I was doing was extrapolating what YOU called for. You want something banned because it passed some sort of invisible threshold with you while serving no other purpose you acknowledge. I did the same.

 

[JSt0rm]

Except that I'm not even close to a righty, and all I was doing was extrapolating what YOU called for. You want something banned because it passed some sort of invisible threshold with you while serving no other purpose you acknowledge. I did the same.

There is nothing invisible about the threshold passed. If I didnt want to be moderate about the subject I would say ban all guns except muskets. Then he would have to spend time reloading after each shot. I'm just saying this 30 round clip is excessive for what anyone should be expecting to see in their daily life. So I ddnt go to the extremes you decided to go to. When you do that to prove a point you end up proving nothing and just look like you are making strawmen to argue against.