And Now, about America...

[Polish3d]

Q]


I was with you until you decided on taking aim at "leftists", which I assume you mean Democrats. Face it, it's popular in Europe to be a little bit Anti-American. The French have known this and have capitalized on it for years, now the Germans are doing it as well. Schroeder isn't saying anything new.

[/quote]

Actually that's been true since our earliest days IIRC. People seem to be fretting about it more now.

One thing to keep in mind too is that while it is a concern, the more others see that complaining about us can affect our politics in a way desirable to them, the more they will do it.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
You're misleading. I never said Canada has to kiss ass. I do say that you should show a little more respect in general for us and what we've accomplished and done over the last century. Since you are judging our actions now, judge them in context to who we are and have been.

Who YOU are and has been. Please don't put WE because I am american and I have never been like this... I can't remember when the USA was like this....

What are you talking about. You're a part of this country for better or worse so long as you're a citizen living here.

I am asserting that if he is going to judge the US based on her/our/your actions, judge in full context of our history as well as the last 2 years.

If judged in THAT way, the only equitable way, the derision and claimed dislike would not be nearly so strong.

At worst we're a country who has done more to promote freedom, justice, etc over the last century than any other nation, but has gotten into a bad situation when it comes to Iraq.

You think that deserves the kind of hate and vitriol people from up north and around the world have been spitting lately?

Absolutely not.

 

[MicroChrome]

Promote freedom? Please!!! You had more rights taken away since 9/11 ... You have no rights.... Ask that reporter that is behind bars about "freedom of the press" Justice???? Wholy CRAP! ask an Iraqi prisoneer about Justice... You should watch frontline. Yeah you can watch it anytime streaming 24/7 pbs.org...

I actually watch BBC news rather then the crap they have here in this chickensh!t nation. Sorry, I'm not proud to be a citizen of this clusterFU...

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Genx87
What doesnt make sense? You realize Europe has a negative birth rate for white christian europeans? How do you propose they sustain economic growth with a negative birth rate?

By 2060 the native population is expected to be a minority. Who do you think will fill in their place?

Maybe encourage the white christian Europeans to have more children? The Pope ought to be screaming that from his balcony in the Vatican.

Not exactly. It's more of an issue that comes with being in a developed country, educated and being at least middle class.

The issue is not necessarilly a European one, it's anywhere with similar conditions. If you take a look at America, the highest birthrates are more than likely not going to be your middle class white families.

I mean, in the past and possibly even still going, Australia has paid for vacations for, well, your guys.....

I am a father in a white middle class family in a mostly white community, most of the families are having 2 or 3 kids, a few have 4. We're constantly building new schools. I'm not out in the middle of nowhere either. There's 2 universities here, an auto plant, 2 hqs of major insurance companies, 2 hospitals, etc and the nearest population > 1,000,000 city is 90 miles away. People still manage to find time to have families here. I don't know what's so different about Europe...

Well, the difference is: Germany: ca. 250 ppl/sqkm US ca. 25 ppl/sqkm

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Promote freedom? Please!!! You had more rights taken away since 9/11 ... You have no rights.... Ask that reporter that is behind bars about "freedom of the press" Justice???? Wholy CRAP! ask an Iraqi prisoneer about Justice... You should watch frontline. Yeah you can watch it anytime streaming 24/7 pbs.org...

I actually watch BBC news rather then the crap they have here in this chickensh!t nation. Sorry, I'm not proud to be a citizen of this clusterFU...

You can read, but are you able to comprehend?

It seems to be a problem for you.



I said the US has done more to promote freedom in its whole history than any other country.

And you respond with a complaint about post 9/11, infering that that somehow means we haven't promoted freedom, or something.

Its irrational whatever your thinking, and its about as fruitless to try to respond to that as would be arguing with a person in a mental hospital.

 

[Polish3d]

I actually watch BBC news rather then the crap they have here in this chickensh!t nation. Sorry, I'm not proud to be a citizen of this clusterFU...

GET THE ****** OUT THEN! NO ONE IS KEEPING YOU HERE OR EVEN WANTS YOU HERE! IF IT SUCKS SO BADLY, LEAVE!

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
Promote freedom? Please!!! You had more rights taken away since 9/11 ... You have no rights.... Ask that reporter that is behind bars about "freedom of the press" Justice???? Wholy CRAP! ask an Iraqi prisoneer about Justice... You should watch frontline. Yeah you can watch it anytime streaming 24/7 pbs.org...

I actually watch BBC news rather then the crap they have here in this chickensh!t nation. Sorry, I'm not proud to be a citizen of this clusterFU...

Let's see. You are not proud to be an American and you prefer BBC for your "news".

OK. How about taking the last step -- renounce your citizenship and purchase a one-way ticket to the country of your choice.

 

[chcarnage]

This entire topic is just an invitation to cultivate some us-versus-everybody phobia.

All Schroeder made was an appropriate critic of the Kathrina catastrophe management at an inappropriate moment.

And despite the original poster's impression, Harold Pinter's opinion isn't mainstream in Europe.

Well, it has an advantage, too, that all the europhobia concentrates in one topic for a while.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome

Damn you must be really BUSHWHACKED!

QFT :laugh:


Bushwhacked (mp3) (legal to dl)

:music:
If you're out of a job,
And your pension's been robbed,
Well, it's no act of God.
You've been Bushwhacked.
And if you work forty-plus,
And you're still going bust,
While your rent's going up,
You've been Bushwhacked.

CHORUS
You've been Bushwhacked, Jack,
An unnatural fact.
Perhaps it's time to whack those Bushes back.
You've been Bushwhacked, Bushwhacked.
You've been Bushwhacked, Bushwhacked.
You've been Bushwhacked, Bushwhacked.
Bushwhacked, Bushwhacked.

Now, if a couple of wars,
And the promise of more,
Haven't made you secure,
You've been Bushwhacked.
And if your troops and your spooks
Still ain't found any nukes,
Let me tell you the truth:
You've been Bushwhacked.

CHORUS

Now if you need a clue
About what you can do
To burn that Bush
Before he's burning you,
Well, here's a scheme
I think is peachy-keen,
To change his regime.

Go and talk to the folks
Who've forgotten to vote.
Tell 'em, "Don't miss the boat,
If you're Bushwhacked."
We'll leave no hanging chads,
And the world will be glad,
When, like dear old dad,
He's been Bushwhacked.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
All Schroeder made was an appropriate critic of the Kathrina catastrophe management at an inappropriate moment.

Are we to assume from your comments that you actually support Gerhard Schroeder?

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: chcarnage
All Schroeder made was an appropriate critic of the Kathrina catastrophe management at an inappropriate moment.

Are we to assume from your comments that you actually support Gerhard Schroeder?

In this point, fully. I can say that international help offers were managed poorly and I've gained the impression that domestic help wasn't organised well either, be it by the Bush administration or by lower hierarchy levels. Because nobody took responsability, ergo it was organised insufficiently.

I called the moment inappropriate because he should've waited to express undiplomatic opinions until the new German government is in power and the recovery phase in New Orleans is over. The way he did it, he just hurted American feelings and lowered the American image about Germany.

There are good reasons to be proud of America but come on, the Kathrina catastrophe management isn't really high on that list.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
There are good reasons to be proud of America but come on, the Kathrina catastrophe management isn't really high on that list.

We can agree on that point 100%.

That said, championing Gerhard Schroeder as being credible is pretty laughable. We've learned since the early days of the Iraq conflict that Germany (as well as a few other European friends) had significant economic investments in Iraq which precluded them from doing the right thing -- both at the UN and afterwards.

 

[MicroChrome]

HAHAHA Make me!!! Just cause I don't join in your games you want me to leave? Man, I didn't even get started... What a bunch of dorks.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: MicroChrome
HAHAHA Make me!!! Just cause I don't join in your games you want me to leave? Man, I didn't even get started... What a bunch of dorks.

Besides coming across like a kid who probably doesn't have mommy's permission to be at the keyboard, you've solidified the point they were making.

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: Pabster
That said, championing Gerhard Schroeder as being credible is pretty laughable. We've learned since the early days of the Iraq conflict that Germany (as well as a few other European friends) had significant economic investments in Iraq which precluded them from doing the right thing -- both at the UN and afterwards.

Yes there were economic ties between Europe and Iraq. But never was a majority of the German people in favor of the Iraq invasion (to say nothing about German participation). The average German mindset is very anti-war now because of a different historical background. They were right this time because the original reason for the invasion was insufficiently proven.

Concerning the relationship between the Bush and the Schröder administration, they never went along with each other. Schröder played the America-scepticism card in his (re-)election campaign 2002 and Bush returned the favor by openly supporting the opposition and inviting their leader to his farm. They kept their contacts to the required minimum. I consider it likely that the German-US relationship ameliorates again in the next years, now that the German administration changes and Bush isn't under re-election pressure anymore.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: chcarnage
Yes there were economic ties between Europe and Iraq. But never was a majority of the German people in favor of the Iraq invasion (to say nothing about German participation). The average German mindset is very anti-war now because of a different historical background. They were right this time because the original reason for the invasion was insufficiently proven.

Finally, someone can see the light about the economic ties. Several here will swear there were none.

 

[Atheus]

Originally posted by: Frackal
The US has stood against tyranny and done more to promote the causes of freedom and justice and other principles you espouse than any other nation ever, and you ought to show some goddamn respect.

Originally posted by: Frackal
Your nation has behaved absolutely disgustingly, spoiled and thankless Euro-sycophants who knife a longtime friend in the back at the first opportunity.

And continue to speak nastily about us in the so-called name of freedom and good principles while you ally with nations who have never promoted such things, and who are only around today to be free and prosperous, just as you are, because we either liberated them from tyrants or stood with them against tyrants.

Originally posted by: Frackal
You're misleading. I never said Canada has to kiss ass. I do say that you should show a little more respect in general for us and what we've accomplished and done over the last century. Since you are judging our actions now, judge them in context to who we are and have been.

I'm not Canadian, but i will attempt to do just that. America has done great things, and patriotism is good, but you should realise America's achievements do not put it above critisism. I assume you are talking about WWII in the quoted posts... do you think America entered the war for the preservation of freedom and justice? Situation - it's July 1940, most of Europe has fallen and we (Britain) stand alone against the axis powers. Germany is attempting to gain air superiority in preperation for an invasion, our cities are being bombed, but our airforce has taken a beating and we are now vastly outnumbered. America refuses to help despite Churchill's desperate requests, only joining the war when it is directly attacked by the Japanese. Of course, everyone in Europe remains grateful to the Americans for their contribution, but were their motives any better than, say, the Russians, who (by the way) lost 28 million people in the war vs 400,000 ish for the US and 350,000 ish for the UK.

Edit: i can't spell

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: chcarnage
There are good reasons to be proud of America but come on, the Kathrina catastrophe management isn't really high on that list.

We can agree on that point 100%.

That said, championing Gerhard Schroeder as being credible is pretty laughable. We've learned since the early days of the Iraq conflict that Germany (as well as a few other European friends) had significant economic investments in Iraq which precluded them from doing the right thing -- both at the UN and afterwards.

Why is it so hard to understand? Your significant economic invenstments were neither significant nor did they have bearing on Germanies stand Iraq to the Iraq war. Business is done by businesses and and not by the government. Btw way, the business volume with Iraq might be high judging by US export Volumes, but not by ours