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*****ANANDTECHS crossfire review*****

"The bottom line is that CrossFire is a success in implementation. We are impressed with the performance of the solution, especially considering the very early hardware and software we have our hands on here."

Nice, this means ATi won't screw up again? 🙂 A good comparison would be 7800GTX vs Radeon X900 because both of these will have shader model 3.0, which is used more and more in games. Then we can compare apples and apples. 😀
 
What I wonder about is buying an R520 CrossFire version and using it with an existing X800XTPE.. Both cards would trottle back to the lower cards settings obviously, but a). would it be faster than a single R520, and b). would the dual setup still be able to do SM3.0? - I doubt that.
 
I don't think you'd be able to do that. As it is, you need to purchase a Master card specific to your series of card (X800, X850). I'm hoping that the R520 was designed closely with Crossfire and will eliminate the need for M/S cards.
 
It looks very promising. It shows the same gains that SLI does. I think the reason it wins in a lot of cases is because the 6800U is slower than the X850XT from the get go. Additionally, i dont think it was a good idea to bench Splinter Cell, seeing as that gives a twisted view. THe Nvidia cards run SM3 whereas the ATI cards can only run SM1.1.

Other than that :thumbsup: ATI. Just as solid as SLI so far.

-Kevin
 
I am disappointed that ULI's SB is still being used this late in teh game. I thought ATI were working the bugs out of their own SB all this time.
 
This is quite nice. ATI looks to have a real good competitive piece on their hands. Hopefully this will drive costs of sli mainboards down, and maybe video cards.
 
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm impressed. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much market for this after reading that review, here's why:

1. If you have a X850 already, you're going to buy a new motherboard, maybe PSU, and an expensive master card to get faster SM2 performance? In mid 2005? IIRC the X850 master was $550., these motherboards might be fairly high priced at first, and are basically beta boards. You could set yourself up with 7800GTs in a couple weeks for less, probably get the same performance. (and these aren't out either- we'll see which makes it first.

2. 6800U/SLI mobo owner: no compelling performance reason to switch

3. 7800GTX/SLI owner: downgrade

The real value of this will be shown with R520.
 
Once that R520 is out we can compare properly. Right now Nvidia is using SM3.0 while ATi is using SM1.1 or SM2.0 (not sure). The next gen ATi cards will support SM3.0.
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
It looks very promising. It shows the same gains that SLI does. I think the reason it wins in a lot of cases is because the 6800U is slower than the X850XT from the get go. Additionally, i dont think it was a good idea to bench Splinter Cell, seeing as that gives a twisted view. THe Nvidia cards run SM3 whereas the ATI cards can only run SM1.1.

Other than that :thumbsup: ATI. Just as solid as SLI so far.

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Actually, if you read the article, AT ran all SP:CT the tests in SM1.1. Of course they mention that NV can do SM3.0, but I guess they wanted to keep the playing field equal.

I'd have to say that I agree with Rollo in regards to value. R520 is where it's at for Xfire. Then again I felt the same way about SLI/PCI-E for NVIDIA, and didn't get a PCI-E card until the 7800GTX came out.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm impressed. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much market for this after reading that review, here's why:

1. If you have a X850 already, you're going to buy a new motherboard, maybe PSU, and an expensive master card to get faster SM2 performance? In mid 2005? IIRC the X850 master was $550., these motherboards might be fairly high priced at first, and are basically beta boards. You could set yourself up with 7800GTs in a couple weeks for less, probably get the same performance. (and these aren't out either- we'll see which makes it first.

2. 6800U/SLI mobo owner: no compelling performance reason to switch

3. 7800GTX/SLI owner: downgrade

The real value of this will be shown with R520.
Click to expand...



1. If you have a X800/X850 already, you can pick up the motherboard and master card and have a setup that's as fast/faster than a 6800U SLI setup. The ability to have "soft shadows" doesn't seem to excite most people as much as it does you, Rollo.

As far as "an expensive master card", nobody knows for sure how much they are going to be. A person can currently pick up an X850XT PE for $350 (possibly even $75 less with a MIR). Prices have dropped a lot lately thanks to the 7800GTX, so I would be highly surprised if we see a $500 price tag on the Master card. Even if it debuts at $500, I would expect the price to drop rapidly soon after.

2. No reason they should switch. They already have an equivalent setup. This would be for people who don't currently own an SLI capable motherboard.

3. This was even worth mentioning? OBVIOUSLY nobody with a 7800GTX/SLI setup is going to be looking at this.
 
Meh, while it looks like Crossfire was implemented well, it's just another waste of money like SLI is.

I'll don't think many people really care how well it does.
We wanna see the X9xx series. That's something to get excited about.
 
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm impressed. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much market for this after reading that review, here's why:

1. If you have a X850 already, you're going to buy a new motherboard, maybe PSU, and an expensive master card to get faster SM2 performance? In mid 2005? IIRC the X850 master was $550., these motherboards might be fairly high priced at first, and are basically beta boards. You could set yourself up with 7800GTs in a couple weeks for less, probably get the same performance. (and these aren't out either- we'll see which makes it first.

2. 6800U/SLI mobo owner: no compelling performance reason to switch

3. 7800GTX/SLI owner: downgrade

The real value of this will be shown with R520.
Click to expand...

For once I actually agree with rollo. But, it's nice to see it actually beats a single 7800gtx.
 
Looks like nVidia's gonna hold the lead until ATI can catch up in the shader market. And maybe some better OpenGL performances would be nice.

Can't wait for an R520 vs. 7800GTX review.
 
As long as I can get a x800Pro master card cheap, I am guessing the slave cards will be sub $200 very soon and that should make a pretty powerful PC, 6800GT SLIish. I would probably buy the slave card now and wait until I need the power to pick up the master card. I realize the set would need to be sub $400 to be really competitive however. SM3 would be nice, but not a make-or-break issue for me. The other thing is that I really have a hard time justifying speding $400+ on a single card. Buying two cheaper ones might seem nuts, but if the guilty feeling ever got to bad or money got tight, I could ditch one and still have a decent computer.

I will likely buy the ATI board if I can use both SLI and crossfire on it and it is inexpensive. Personally, at this stage I prefer the ULI southbridge as it sounds more mature and any related drivers will probably be so as well. ATI doesn't have a good record when it comes to intial launch drivers IMHO and experience.

It's just time to try something new and different, that is why I picked up the X800XL. It is sold already pending MO and 9700 Pro arrival, but I got an offere I couldn't refuse 😉

I know this isn't really important, but what do thinkg would be achievable in 3dMark05 with Crossfired x800 series cards?

 
Lots of people on the forums and in reviews say SLI and Crossfire is useless for someone running under 1600x1200 resolution. I think with these higher levels of AA becoming available it would be worth it to some people to run 1280x1024 with 16XAA and 16XAF... and I'd really like to see a 32XAF.

It seems like we're at a point now where hardware is getting a good lead on software, and we can start focusing on image quality enhancements rather than just throwing a buttload of shaders in a game just to give the video card something to do.
 
In performance terms, it seems to be able to compete with SLI toe-to-toe. Im quite impressed at the performance gap between the x850 and the 6800u's in the test, also by how close the x850's got to single/SLI'ed 7800's.

Im still not a fan of multiple GPU's since Im happy with the performance I get from my 9800Pro at 1280x1024 in most games I play. A multiple GPU setup would be great if I had the cash to spend on the PC, cards and a fitting display to oogle over.

Id personally rather see improvements made developer-side in making games more compatible and run better for how they look. Some games these days look awful and run slow on high powered systems.

Crossfired R520's would be very interesting but they have a few Crossfire bugs to iron out before we can judge too much.
 
I think ATi should focus more on the R520, so they can get that out faster instead of wasting time on crossfire. I'm sure more people would buy a single Radeon X900 instead of a dual X850's.
 
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
It looks very promising. It shows the same gains that SLI does. I think the reason it wins in a lot of cases is because the 6800U is slower than the X850XT from the get go. Additionally, i dont think it was a good idea to bench Splinter Cell, seeing as that gives a twisted view. THe Nvidia cards run SM3 whereas the ATI cards can only run SM1.1.

Other than that :thumbsup: ATI. Just as solid as SLI so far.

-Kevin
Click to expand...


Well that is true it wins in more games because its already faster. However, if they were EXACTLY the same speeds, ATI would still win.

Compare % increase over 1 card and you'll see Crossfire gives more % boost than SLI. Anand points that out so you can compare the two technologies and not deal with 2 cards...
 
Well that is true it wins in more games because its already faster. However, if they were EXACTLY the same speeds, ATI would still win.

Compare % increase over 1 card and you'll see Crossfire gives more % boost than SLI. Anand points that out so you can compare the two technologies and not deal with 2 cards...
Click to expand...
That is a valid point, but what I don't understand is why AT claimed the following about the 7800GTX:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2451&p=7

Why high res?

It is important to remember that we tested at resolutions of 1600x1200 and higher because lower resolutions are CPU limited without AA and AF enabled. In many cases the GeForce 7800 GTX don't show much difference in performance with and without antialiasing at lower resolutions. This kind of data doesn't give us much useful information about the card. We have truly reached another plateau in graphics performance with this part: pushing the card to the max is all but necessary in order to understand its performance characteristics.
Click to expand...

Yet, when they test out CrossFire, the max res is 1600x1200... Just seems odd to me. Even between the 6800Ultras and the 7800GTXes in SLI is the huge difference comes in at 2048x1536, and not at 1600x1200.
 
Originally posted by: Creig
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: MegaWorks
I'm impressed. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much market for this after reading that review, here's why:

1. If you have a X850 already, you're going to buy a new motherboard, maybe PSU, and an expensive master card to get faster SM2 performance? In mid 2005? IIRC the X850 master was $550., these motherboards might be fairly high priced at first, and are basically beta boards. You could set yourself up with 7800GTs in a couple weeks for less, probably get the same performance. (and these aren't out either- we'll see which makes it first.

2. 6800U/SLI mobo owner: no compelling performance reason to switch

3. 7800GTX/SLI owner: downgrade

The real value of this will be shown with R520.
Click to expand...



1. If you have a X800/X850 already, you can pick up the motherboard and master card and have a setup that's as fast/faster than a 6800U SLI setup. The ability to have "soft shadows" doesn't seem to excite most people as much as it does you, Rollo.
Click to expand...

It's not just soft shadows though is it Creig? It's SM3
The SM3.0 options do make a visual difference in SC:CT, and they're worth enabling if spare graphics power is sitting idle.
Click to expand...

and HDR
With HDR enabled, the game literally comes alive
Click to expand...

I don't think I need to go on- it's better to have SM3, soft shadows, and HDR than not, especially on a $1000 dual card rig that you may want to last a while and not say to yourself "SM2 and 2003 features are good enough! Damn programmers implementing all this SM3/soft shadow/EXR HDR crap!". I want modern tech for myt $1000 Creig- if you were actually considering buying this you would too.
I am not saying this to flame you or your 9500NP. I am saying this because there is a HUGE difference in you saying "You don't need that stuff anyway" when you have no intent whatsoever to buy it, and me saying "Wait a minute- this is $1000 I worked hard for- I want the current feature set and MS standard- not some stuff that was hot two years ago"
I've put my money where my mouth is 4X on this issue and am currently runnign two high end SLI rigs. IMO that carries more weight than you saying, "Ah nobody likes those features anyway" when the soft shadows you mock are currently scaling 1.9X in SLI?


As far as "an expensive master card", nobody knows for sure how much they are going to be.
We don't?
With an MSRP of $549, I think we can assume they won't be cheap.

A person can currently pick up an X850XT PE for $350 (possibly even $75 less with a MIR).
Click to expand...
Link please? Remember has to be PCIE, and neweggs cheapest AFTER MIR is $394 for a generic Connect3d.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...ry=0&minPrice=&maxPrice=&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

Prices have dropped a lot lately thanks to the 7800GTX, so I would be highly surprised if we see a $500 price tag on the Master card. Even if it debuts at $500, I would expect the price to drop rapidly soon after.
Click to expand...
But you're guessing so it means nothing. The only price we have is MSRP $549.

2. No reason they should switch. They already have an equivalent setup. This would be for people who don't currently own an SLI capable motherboard.
Click to expand...
Agree.

3. This was even worth mentioning? OBVIOUSLY nobody with a 7800GTX/SLI setup is going to be looking at this.
Click to expand...
It's the third type of high end customer, my point was that this is a good deal for no one, these people included.

I stand by my original position: This is DOA until R520 cards make it viable. (especially if 7800GTs beat it to market, which looks possible as 8/11 draws nearer)

Nice try to spin it though.

 
Haha, talk about spin. Still trying to push the same argument, that never worked the first time.

1. Not everyone likes HDR in every game.
2. HDR doesnt work with AA.
3. SLI doesnt speed up HDR.
4. HDR takes a huge hit, and is unplayable at a higher res, which is what people are probably going to be playing at, with a $500+ card.
5. To get playable frames, you have to lower in-game quality settings, which defeats the purpose of enabling HDR.

If you say Crossfire as it is now, makes no sense, then the same goes for 6800 series SLI.
 
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