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Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: shady06
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
my god, how many times are we gonna repeat the same thing? REGARDLESS of the HL2 performance, it has been documented by several different sites that the 5900 ultra has POOR PS2 PERFORMANCE. HL2 is just confirming. i'm willing to wager if you run any other DX9 game with PS2 youll get similar results
Click to expand...


i have run them, gumetal, 3dmark03 etc. looked and performed just as well as the ati machine i have running right next to the nvidia machine. then again i am not getting any money from ATI either...no big ati logo on my podium as we see on gabe newells! could you perhaps direct me to where i can view other dx9 apps that show the same perf difference where a 9600 outperforms a 5900ultra? do you have links?

another funny thing is newell saying more or less to also blame microsoft...if the fault lies with dx9 itself then what did ATI and valve do to change things to make it work?

"a game is a program, and programs do not "just happen" to run on one piece of hardware better than another, a program only does what it is TOLD to do with hardware and nothing else, and to even run on a particular piece of hardware much less perform on it well it has to be written with said hardware in mind during programming...a good example are instruction sets in processors. if a particular program lacks optimizations for those instruction sets it's performance will be mildly to severly inhibited in relation to a CPU whose instruction sets are programmed for, that is why many times we see a slower processor outperform a faster one"

so now we have gabe newell telling us hl2 "just happens" to run better on ATI cards and no specific efforts were made to make it that way(with a huge ATI logo on his podium and ATI footing the bill for the event the whole time he is saying it...rigghthhtttt.


until now i simply preferred nvidia cards, now i must say i will NEVER buy ATI..or valve software, if they through an obvious business partnership try to force me to. screw them both. i remember the days of glide and refuse to participate a return to those days.
Click to expand...
 
D

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: shady06
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
my god, how many times are we gonna repeat the same thing? REGARDLESS of the HL2 performance, it has been documented by several different sites that the 5900 ultra has POOR PS2 PERFORMANCE. HL2 is just confirming. i'm willing to wager if you run any other DX9 game with PS2 youll get similar results
Click to expand...


i have run them, gumetal, 3dmark03 etc. looked and performed just as well as the ati machine i have running right next to the nvidia machine. then again i am not getting any money from ATI either...no big ati logo on my podium as we see on gabe newells! could you perhaps direct me to where i can view other dx9 apps that show the same perf difference where a 9600 outperforms a 5900ultra? do you have links?

another funny thing is newell saying more or less to also blame microsoft...if the fault lies with dx9 itself then what did ATI and valve do to change things to make it work?

"a game is a program, and programs do not "just happen" to run on one piece of hardware better than another, a program only does what it is TOLD to do with hardware and nothing else, and to even run on a particular piece of hardware much less perform on it well it has to be written with said hardware in mind during programming...a good example are instruction sets in processors. if a particular program lacks optimizations for those instruction sets it's performance will be mildly to severly inhibited in relation to a CPU whose instruction sets are programmed for, that is why many times we see a slower processor outperform a faster one"

so now we have gabe newell telling us hl2 "just happens" to run better on ATI cards and no specific efforts were made to make it that way(with a huge ATI logo on his podium and ATI footing the bill for the event the whole time he is saying it...rigghthhtttt.


until now i simply preferred nvidia cards, now i must say i will NEVER buy ATI..or valve software, if they through an obvious business partnership try to force me to. screw them both. i remember the days of glide and refuse to participate a return to those days.
Click to expand...


You are being moronic...One you read too much into that and secondly any of you ppl who sell your souls to one brand are really limiting yourselves. Even if a partnership was formed to make it work better on ATI hardware the fact remains.....Nvidia deviated from DX9 specs...Did anybody make them??? NO!!! Why did they do it??? Cause they are Jackasses?? Maybe!!, but most likely so they could give themselves an advantage over the competition. They made the call and it looks as they may have made the wrong call...Nvidia does questionable business all the time and I would have to say I usually see more threads and reports of their devious acts...
Click to expand...
 
D

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Duvie
I have to say this is far more entertaining then the Intel/AMD flame wars, or should I say FAN wars.....

I have to say I am not a gamer and likely wouldn't ever play HL2 unless I upgrade my 8500DV AIW to say a 9600AIW and it came bundled with it, which at the moment I can't see why as this 8500 does its job quite well for me....

I have had about 5-6 nvidia cards in the last 3 years and about 4 ATI cards......IN the end I have been happy with Nvidias driver support and ease of driver updates, with ATI not so much. However the ATI cards usually cost me less and the quality in my CADD work and in watching DVDs has always looked better with ATI. I directly compared GF2pro to Radeon and GF4 to Radeon 8500 and it was obvious to me....


That being said I like to buy best value for the buck so I have no allegiances....

Heck I may even get an A64 if the price comes down and it actually starts putting up numbers in real world multimedia apps like it did in gaming....
Click to expand...

I'm with you, I have no particular allegience...just whoever has the best price/performance ratio at the time. As far as CPUs go, in the past 4 years I've had:

Athlon 600
Duron 950
1.4GHz Thunderbird
Athlon XP 1500+ (I think that's what it was;))
Pentium 4 1.8A @ 2.4GHz
Pentium 4 2.4C @ 3.06GHz

As for graphics cards:

Elsa TNT
Voodoo 3 3000
Gigabyte GeForce 256
Asus GeForce2 GTS
Radeon AIW (original)
GeForce3 Ti200
GeForce4 Ti4200
Radeon 9700 Pro
Radeon 9600 Pro (had to downgrade due to incompatibility with my rev 9700 Pro and i875P)
Click to expand...

Actually I have noticed you and I seem to be ATI at the same tiomes and AMD or INtel at same time....I think we both have the eye for the good product at the time....(slap on each of are backs...)

 
N

NOX

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
4,077
0
0
Originally posted by: shady06

my god, how many times are we gonna repeat the same thing? REGARDLESS of the HL2 performance, it has been documented by several different sites that the 5900 ultra has POOR PS2 PERFORMANCE. HL2 is just confirming. i'm willing to wager if you run any other DX9 game with PS2 youll get similar results
Click to expand...
Well... it doesn't seem all that bad to me: Nvidia PS2.0 Test.

I'm sure it has and will get better.
 
Regs

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,666
21
81
Originally posted by: Megatomic
Originally posted by: Regs
Well Nebor, let me make this simple comparison to get this ideological thought: "More is always better", out of your head.

Dump truck running a v-10 diesel with 500 bhps, Honda Civic running a in-line 4 cly with 120 bhps. Which one will perform better in performance?

Sometimes more, is just more.
Click to expand...
What performance criteria are you comparing? Let's see the Honda even start moving when carrying a load only 1/10th what the dump truck can carry. In this case the dump truck completely clobbers the Honda in performance. What do you say?
Click to expand...

I say, True. So my comparison is false and was a bad example.

At least I can say there is more to the performance of a vehicle other than its engine and bhp's.

 
S

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
You are being moronic...One you read too much into that and secondly any of you ppl who sell your souls to one brand are really limiting yourselves. Even if a partnership was formed to make it work better on ATI hardware the fact remains.....Nvidia deviated from DX9 specs...Did anybody make them??? NO!!! Why did they do it??? Cause they are Jackasses?? Maybe!!, but most likely so they could give themselves an advantage over the competition. They made the call and it looks as they may have made the wrong call...Nvidia does questionable business all the time and I would have to say I usually see more threads and reports of their devious acts...
Click to expand...


you can call me names all day it makes no difference. gabe newell is full of crap, and you still have not given me the links i have asked for. do they exist? or are you blowing smoke like newell?

actually i am not. any person with a basic understanding of how computer programs relate to the hardware that runs them can see that. on your second point, would that include game comanies as well as individuals?

 
batmang

batmang

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2003
3,020
1
81
the only quetion i have is, 60 fps... at 1024x768, with no anti aliasing or anything... isnt that kinda crappy? and what kind of system was it ran on? just cause its 60 fps, dont mean its a 9800 with a xp1700 or some crap. i really hope it was a slower cpu rather then a p4-3.2c or some crap. that would really piss me off. everyone just upgraded for these 2 games, hl2/d3 and 60 fps in 1024x768 in hl2 isnt too playable for me. if i dont get 100 fps in 800x600 i might as well rid of my comp and just give up on computer gaming. no one has the money to keep making the $400 upgrades for videocards and cpu's to play a $50 game. friggin bs. i reallllly hope future benchmarks prove me wrong... dood that would make me furious to get only 60fps with my rig with a 9800.
 
S

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
Originally posted by: batmang
the only quetion i have is, 60 fps... at 1024x768, with no anti aliasing or anything... isnt that kinda crappy? and what kind of system was it ran on? just cause its 60 fps, dont mean its a 9800 with a xp1700 or some crap. i really hope it was a slower cpu rather then a p4-3.2c or some crap. that would really piss me off. everyone just upgraded for these 2 games, hl2/d3 and 60 fps in 1024x768 in hl2 isnt too playable for me. if i dont get 100 fps in 800x600 i might as well rid of my comp and just give up on computer gaming. no one has the money to keep making the $400 upgrades for videocards and cpu's to play a $50 game. friggin bs. i reallllly hope future benchmarks prove me wrong... dood that would make me furious to get only 60fps with my rig with a 9800.
Click to expand...

good point that.


we need a third vid card maker to step up to the plate. who will it be?

 
S

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Hey maybe it was a P2 350mhz ;)

Most benchmarks are run on Intel Pentium4's at 2.4Ghz or faster with hyperthreading. My computer is only a 1700+. If I wanted to play these games, I would have to either pray or buy a completely new computer; one which I can't afford.
 
J

jim1976

Platinum Member
Aug 7, 2003
2,704
6
81
Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
Originally posted by: batmang
the only quetion i have is, 60 fps... at 1024x768, with no anti aliasing or anything... isnt that kinda crappy? and what kind of system was it ran on? just cause its 60 fps, dont mean its a 9800 with a xp1700 or some crap. i really hope it was a slower cpu rather then a p4-3.2c or some crap. that would really piss me off. everyone just upgraded for these 2 games, hl2/d3 and 60 fps in 1024x768 in hl2 isnt too playable for me. if i dont get 100 fps in 800x600 i might as well rid of my comp and just give up on computer gaming. no one has the money to keep making the $400 upgrades for videocards and cpu's to play a $50 game. friggin bs. i reallllly hope future benchmarks prove me wrong... dood that would make me furious to get only 60fps with my rig with a 9800.
Click to expand...

good point that.


we need a third vid card maker to step up to the plate. who will it be?
Click to expand...


A M E N !!! A THINKING PERSON! MY GOD! They just want us to upgrade in 2-3 months. They are optimizing everything for the F U T U R E GPU'S! WAKE UP PPL!
 
batmang

batmang

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2003
3,020
1
81
Originally posted by: shady06
it was a 2.8C
Click to expand...

ugh. 2.8c eh? so lets see, 60fps, it was a 9800 pro right? AHHHH. im at 3.0ghz, if i do get a 9800, it will be a non pro, im broke, cause i just upgraded. on a serious note, literally.... if i do not get at least 100fps after tweaking hl2 in 800x600, im selling my computer and becoming a console master. I know at least with a console i can play all the games without having to buy another fvcking console. lol. its really sad at what the pc gaming industry has to do to make money. the teaming up of id/nvidia and ati/valve. one day some company is going to come out of nowhere just like nvidia did on the 3dfx fellas, and own them with a silly pimp slap backhand. oh man, i better get 100fps.
 
S

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
HL was big because it ran smooth on half-assed computers of the time. HL2 may be anticipated a lot but the ultimate decider is the all mighty dollar. If I have to spend over $1000 in upgrades just to play the damn game, why would I buy it instead of JK2 or UT2003?
If the hardware demands are too high, the game will just flop.
 
NFS4

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
47
91
Originally posted by: Evan Lieb
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: oldfart
Not too many DX9 games out there. Here is a bench using the upcoming Tomb Raider AOD game which is DX9. Pixel shader 2.0 benches are included.
Click to expand...

Ouch for NVIDIA :Q
Click to expand...

You'll be seeing a lot of that tonight, especially on the mobile side.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I heard from the other staff members:p
 
S

Shad0hawK

Banned
May 26, 2003
1,456
0
0
A M E N !!! A THINKING PERSON! MY GOD! They just want us to upgrade in 2-3 months. They are optimizing everything for the F U T U R E GPU'S! WAKE UP PPL!
Click to expand...



maybe parhelia 2 i have seen screenshots of ut2003 in widescreen mode (on 3 monitors) it was awesome. dx8.1 was never even taken full advantage of except perhaps by doom3 which looks real darn spiffy...but even it is not out yet.




 
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