ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
I like it when ATI releases a new video card! It means that three things will happen:
1) Nvidia will release some new drivers within a week of ATI's release date, which will make most their existing cards run 10% faster.
2) Nvidia will release a new chipset 45 days later, that will be both faster and cheaper than ATI's best product.
3) ATI will have to cut the prices on their new card to compete, and I'll have my choice of kickass video cards for under $200.
Oh yeah, competition rocks!
1) Nvidia will release some new drivers within a week of ATI's release date, which will make most their existing cards run 10% faster.
2) Nvidia will release a new chipset 45 days later, that will be both faster and cheaper than ATI's best product.
3) ATI will have to cut the prices on their new card to compete, and I'll have my choice of kickass video cards for under $200.
Oh yeah, competition rocks!
There's sure been a lot more heat than light generated on this board lately... :disgust:
There's no denying that ATI has done something great with their new chip. I applaud them. I still complain that they don't offer a dual DVI version, but I know I'm in the minority (after all, someone told me so!) and a new R300-based FireGL will probably give me what I want. Of course by then the NV30 will be right around the corner...
Lighten up, folks -- it's just a video card! The religious fervor some people display on this board is really a bit over the top.
After all, nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything.
There's no denying that ATI has done something great with their new chip. I applaud them. I still complain that they don't offer a dual DVI version, but I know I'm in the minority (after all, someone told me so!) and a new R300-based FireGL will probably give me what I want. Of course by then the NV30 will be right around the corner...
Lighten up, folks -- it's just a video card! The religious fervor some people display on this board is really a bit over the top.
so... it looks something like this... right?
GeForce2----> countered with Radeon... ehh
GeForce3----> countered with Radeon 8500... hmm, not bad
GeForce4----> countered with Radeon 9700... HFS!!!!!!
see, THAT is what everyone is excited about. ati hasnt just countered with their release, theyve blown past.
and what about the future?
Radeon 9700----> countered with NV30
r300 .13 ddr2 refresh----> countered with NV35
planning/development cycles regardless, the only thing that matters is whats on the market at the moment. now the cycle has appeared to have reversed itself. what nvidia used to get to market first, and ati used to release later, ati has now managed to get out first, and nvidia will follow. THAT is whats exciting.
not to stomp on anyones corporate bias or anything.
GeForce2----> countered with Radeon... ehh
GeForce3----> countered with Radeon 8500... hmm, not bad
GeForce4----> countered with Radeon 9700... HFS!!!!!!
see, THAT is what everyone is excited about. ati hasnt just countered with their release, theyve blown past.
and what about the future?
Radeon 9700----> countered with NV30
r300 .13 ddr2 refresh----> countered with NV35
planning/development cycles regardless, the only thing that matters is whats on the market at the moment. now the cycle has appeared to have reversed itself. what nvidia used to get to market first, and ati used to release later, ati has now managed to get out first, and nvidia will follow. THAT is whats exciting.
not to stomp on anyones corporate bias or anything.
Oh, you little boys are just so cute! The way you all have to gang up on the infidel and take turns attacking the guy with the bad manners to tell you the raw, unvarnished truth. You act as a herd because your scared to think for yourselves. So sad. (You probably told gay jokes so that you'd appear macho, right?)
OK...In two sentences I will sum up everything I've said and it'll be fun how you little simps twist this around.
1. The R300 is an impressive accomplishment for ATI. If they are able to get the chip yields and write GOOD drivers, they will have vaulted into the big leagues of graphic performance and we will all benefit from the clash of these titans, as they race to come up with even better chips at lower prices.
2. ATI fanboys are as delusional as Mac users, have tiny d*cks and cry because they don't understand how the real business world works and hate when anyone reminds them of their shortcomings. They tend to stick together to keep each other in line and detractors away.
Any questions? Good. Dismissed!
==========================
I was talking to my old boss today and he was asking what the latest games were. He'd just upgraded to a P4-2GHz/1GB RAM/GF3Ti200 (yeah, weak video). I mentioned that the 9700 had been unveiled and the numbers were awesome. He said, "Yeah, but I'm not interested because when I think ATI, I think drivers and they've had too many problems with the drivers in the past."
THAT is the challenge ATI faces: Can they write drivers for the hardware correctly THE FIRST TIME or will they botch it, like they did with the 8500, and stumble along, crippling their hardware's potential and leaving the door open for Nvidia to deliver the NV30 and stable drivers and maintain their lead?
You may not like my methods, but you can't deny my truth.
OK...In two sentences I will sum up everything I've said and it'll be fun how you little simps twist this around.
1. The R300 is an impressive accomplishment for ATI. If they are able to get the chip yields and write GOOD drivers, they will have vaulted into the big leagues of graphic performance and we will all benefit from the clash of these titans, as they race to come up with even better chips at lower prices.
2. ATI fanboys are as delusional as Mac users, have tiny d*cks and cry because they don't understand how the real business world works and hate when anyone reminds them of their shortcomings. They tend to stick together to keep each other in line and detractors away.
Any questions? Good. Dismissed!
==========================
I was talking to my old boss today and he was asking what the latest games were. He'd just upgraded to a P4-2GHz/1GB RAM/GF3Ti200 (yeah, weak video). I mentioned that the 9700 had been unveiled and the numbers were awesome. He said, "Yeah, but I'm not interested because when I think ATI, I think drivers and they've had too many problems with the drivers in the past."
THAT is the challenge ATI faces: Can they write drivers for the hardware correctly THE FIRST TIME or will they botch it, like they did with the 8500, and stumble along, crippling their hardware's potential and leaving the door open for Nvidia to deliver the NV30 and stable drivers and maintain their lead?
You may not like my methods, but you can't deny my truth.
oh def, you are SO right...
i don't like your methods, and i can't deny your truth.
i never realized my d*ck was so small, or that what you just said is simply a condensed rehash of what the majority of people have been reiterating over and over on this thread, albeit with an exponential increase in belligerence and tone of superiority.
if only everyone else with a viewpoint to share was as eloquent and levelheaded as you.
just like the nv30, i bet YOUR d*ck is having trouble adjusting to its .13u process.
i don't like your methods, and i can't deny your truth.
i never realized my d*ck was so small, or that what you just said is simply a condensed rehash of what the majority of people have been reiterating over and over on this thread, albeit with an exponential increase in belligerence and tone of superiority.
if only everyone else with a viewpoint to share was as eloquent and levelheaded as you.
just like the nv30, i bet YOUR d*ck is having trouble adjusting to its .13u process.
DeafRef: STFU
You must be blind AND deaf...blind from looking at the crap 2D output of your nvidia-based POS!!! Oh, and by the way, it sounds like you have a serious case of penis-envy. Get help.
--original
You must be blind AND deaf...blind from looking at the crap 2D output of your nvidia-based POS!!! Oh, and by the way, it sounds like you have a serious case of penis-envy. Get help.
--original
BFG10K
Lifer
- Aug 14, 2000
- 22,709
- 3,003
- 126
Well, I'll state for the record that I'm officially impressed with the specs and the real world performance of such an early card. It looks like the R300 has true anisotropic filtering now which pleases me greatly and it's significantly faster than a Ti4600 as well, especially at high resolutions.
The only thing that concerns me is the fact that it only has 1 texture unit per pipe when most games are using two. The other thing that concerns me is the rebuilt drivers for just the 9700 and the abandoned unified driver model. I know ATi's drivers are much better than they were before but I do still have issues with them, issues that I don't have with nVidia's drivers.
So when these cards appear on the shelves I'm pretty much sold assuming no cheating is revealed, no major driver problems are revealed and assuming that nVidia doesn't counter the cards in some way such as with new drivers and/or new products.
The only thing that concerns me is the fact that it only has 1 texture unit per pipe when most games are using two. The other thing that concerns me is the rebuilt drivers for just the 9700 and the abandoned unified driver model. I know ATi's drivers are much better than they were before but I do still have issues with them, issues that I don't have with nVidia's drivers.
So when these cards appear on the shelves I'm pretty much sold assuming no cheating is revealed, no major driver problems are revealed and assuming that nVidia doesn't counter the cards in some way such as with new drivers and/or new products.
>ATI will have to cut the prices on their new card to compete, and I'll have my choice of kickass video cards for under $200.
LOL ... what the heck are you talking about ??? the 9000 pro out of the gate is going for $129 U.S.D. jeee I wonder what that will do to the 8500 and 8500LE and by the time the supposed NV30 comes out guess how much the 9700 will be, most likely half the price or less. Compete ??? compete with what now.
>because they don't understand how the real business world works and hate when anyone reminds them of their shortcomings.
Gawd this is good. Like in the real business world that nvidia lost %13 market share and ATI gained %6. Funny how when we remind people of their shortcomings that they have to resort to humiliating others body parts.
LOL ... what the heck are you talking about ??? the 9000 pro out of the gate is going for $129 U.S.D. jeee I wonder what that will do to the 8500 and 8500LE and by the time the supposed NV30 comes out guess how much the 9700 will be, most likely half the price or less. Compete ??? compete with what now.
>because they don't understand how the real business world works and hate when anyone reminds them of their shortcomings.
Gawd this is good. Like in the real business world that nvidia lost %13 market share and ATI gained %6. Funny how when we remind people of their shortcomings that they have to resort to humiliating others body parts.
After reading every single post in this thread I've come to the conclusion. The only Fanboy on this thread is DefRef. He's an nVidia fanboy through and through.
The average person on this thread is just a gamer that is interested in cutting edge technology and appreciates the performance of Ati's new release. These same people also probably appreciated the performance of the Ti4600 when it was first released.
Most people here are open minded about gfx cards and will buy what is the best performing card or what has the best value. But DefRef would buy only nvidia cards regardless of if they were the best performing or the best value. You know why? Because he is a Fanboy
LOL
The average person on this thread is just a gamer that is interested in cutting edge technology and appreciates the performance of Ati's new release. These same people also probably appreciated the performance of the Ti4600 when it was first released.
Most people here are open minded about gfx cards and will buy what is the best performing card or what has the best value. But DefRef would buy only nvidia cards regardless of if they were the best performing or the best value. You know why? Because he is a Fanboy
LOL
What difference does it really make? It takes a high speed computer to evaluate the difference in the cards. If you set down with two computers the are identical except for the video cards, could anyone tell which one was the Nvidia and which one is the ATI? I think not. We keep arguing, but the fact is, either one of the newer cards will be an improvement over the 4 mb Trident's.
ultimatebob
Lifer
- Jul 1, 2001
- 25,134
- 2,450
- 126
Hey, I see nothing wrong with Video Card "fanboys"! If they want to spend $400+ on a computer part that will be obsolete in 18 months, then I say go for it! It's the people who are pre-ordering their Radeon 9700's right now for retail price that will help ATI boost their profit-margins for the next few months. Of course, these cards probably cost ATI about $80 each to produce, but SOMEONE has to pay for those full-page ads in PC Gamer, right?
Meanwhile, I'll sit back and wait a few months for the competition to produce a superior or competitive product. That way, I'll be able to pick up the latest ATI or NVidia video card without having to pay the insanely high introduction price. Games that actually take advantage of the new DirectX 9 features might actually be out by then, so I'm not paying a fortune just to play Quake 3 at 1600x1200 at 120 frames a second.
Meanwhile, I'll sit back and wait a few months for the competition to produce a superior or competitive product. That way, I'll be able to pick up the latest ATI or NVidia video card without having to pay the insanely high introduction price. Games that actually take advantage of the new DirectX 9 features might actually be out by then, so I'm not paying a fortune just to play Quake 3 at 1600x1200 at 120 frames a second.
Judgement
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 3,815
- 0
- 0
I wish my manhood was as big as defref's, cause I mean since he is using an nvidia card it must be huge righ?!
Or maybe it means someone who needs to insult someone about something such as that feels insecure and can't make a real argument about the topic the thread is supposed to be about so they have to resort to thinking about the problem stuck on their mind, their inferiorly sized genitals. I mean, what other conclusion can be drawn from your cry baby attitude. Oh no, what you own is inferior, what are you ever going to do?! Get over it, and if you can't... lay in a fetal position and cry yourself to sleep.
What else can I say, Defref has clearly lost the intellectual battle, and has proven himself to be a fanboy for nvidia while he goes around calling anyone who is excited about a product that is not designed by the company whos jock he is hanging from a "little boy". Defref why do you keep mentioning cute little boys, maybe there is something deeply inbeded in your mind that you are subconsciously trying to hide?
We are just here to be excited about new hardware that is the biggest improvement in graphics cards over one generation I personally have witnessed. Since when did that make us fanboys for ATI?
Actaeon said it best when he called us fan boys of performance. You clearly are a fanboy of nvidia, which is fine except you have insulted the ATI card so thoroughly its also easy to see you are a fanboy of monopolies on a product you spend hundreds of dollars on, otherwise you would have at least recognized the ATI card as the top offering the market until proven otherwise.
Or maybe it means someone who needs to insult someone about something such as that feels insecure and can't make a real argument about the topic the thread is supposed to be about so they have to resort to thinking about the problem stuck on their mind, their inferiorly sized genitals. I mean, what other conclusion can be drawn from your cry baby attitude. Oh no, what you own is inferior, what are you ever going to do?! Get over it, and if you can't... lay in a fetal position and cry yourself to sleep.
What else can I say, Defref has clearly lost the intellectual battle, and has proven himself to be a fanboy for nvidia while he goes around calling anyone who is excited about a product that is not designed by the company whos jock he is hanging from a "little boy". Defref why do you keep mentioning cute little boys, maybe there is something deeply inbeded in your mind that you are subconsciously trying to hide?
We are just here to be excited about new hardware that is the biggest improvement in graphics cards over one generation I personally have witnessed. Since when did that make us fanboys for ATI?
Actaeon said it best when he called us fan boys of performance. You clearly are a fanboy of nvidia, which is fine except you have insulted the ATI card so thoroughly its also easy to see you are a fanboy of monopolies on a product you spend hundreds of dollars on, otherwise you would have at least recognized the ATI card as the top offering the market until proven otherwise.
Personally, I'd rather see ATI give their products some at least ecceptable OpenGL support!
This was the only thing I hoped for when I was bying this piese of junk Radeon8500.
I've been waiting for couple of month now and writing countless e-mails to them and still, OpenGL hasen't been
improved not a tiny bit.
My next buy is Wildcat. No way I'm going to fall again for any of ATI/NVidia useless odds and ends.
As for this crap I currently have, I'm gonna stick it in to my old, 300MGH computer and use it for reading e-mail
This was the only thing I hoped for when I was bying this piese of junk Radeon8500.
I've been waiting for couple of month now and writing countless e-mails to them and still, OpenGL hasen't been
improved not a tiny bit.
My next buy is Wildcat. No way I'm going to fall again for any of ATI/NVidia useless odds and ends.
As for this crap I currently have, I'm gonna stick it in to my old, 300MGH computer and use it for reading e-mail
This is all pretty funny stuff, I can't remember seeing so much passion in the forums. I could write a reply so big you could scroll your broswer for a minute...but whats the point?! Most of what I would have said has already been said in this encrypted mess. Ponder this...
Has anyone stopped to notice that the GAMES are being developed 10x's slower that the graphic cards? I'll admit the new generation games (UT 2 or UT 2003 or whatever the hell they decide to call it next week, DOOM 3, etc. etc.) will need a little more fire power to run. I'm sure the current GF 4 TI's can handle any of the new games for at least a year or so. Don't forget when programmers make games they account for BACKWARDS mobility not just what the latest and greatest cards can provide. This unfortunate fact means even my GF 4 TI 4400 will probably wait a good year or two before it will use all of its features. It's just the way it is. Crap, my friend's GF 3 Ti 500 still isn't using all its goodies...hmmm...Graphic cards are being changed every 6 months and games are 2 years behind in using their full potential...so,
Geforce 3 Ti 500 = 1 Year to obsolite (1 Year old)
Geforce 4 Ti ANY = 2-3 Years to obsolite (6 months old)
ATI 9700 = 4 Years to obsolite (next month or two)
NV30 = 5 Years to obsolite (end of year est.)
ATI 10000 (made up) = 6 Years to obsolite (Spring 2003 guessing)
NV35 = 7 Years to obsolite (Fall 2003 guessing)
whats my point you ask? Do you see a trend yet? Within 1 year from now Nvidia and ATI will make a video card that'll consume the earth! From my limited brain I figure, with this comming battle between ATI and Nvidia, we'll still have to wait YEARS before any of their great features used to full potential. Because of what boys and girls? BACKWARDS MOBILITY!!! These poor game programmers are staying up til 4am every night trying to make games that use the R8500 and GF3 features and still run on older graphic cards. And what about the all important Frames Per Second? Well if you can tell the difference between your vid card's 400 fps vs. mine @ 200 fps your definitely the better cyborg...oops...I meant man!
Facts:
Has anyone stopped to notice that the GAMES are being developed 10x's slower that the graphic cards? I'll admit the new generation games (UT 2 or UT 2003 or whatever the hell they decide to call it next week, DOOM 3, etc. etc.) will need a little more fire power to run. I'm sure the current GF 4 TI's can handle any of the new games for at least a year or so. Don't forget when programmers make games they account for BACKWARDS mobility not just what the latest and greatest cards can provide. This unfortunate fact means even my GF 4 TI 4400 will probably wait a good year or two before it will use all of its features. It's just the way it is. Crap, my friend's GF 3 Ti 500 still isn't using all its goodies...hmmm...Graphic cards are being changed every 6 months and games are 2 years behind in using their full potential...so,
Geforce 3 Ti 500 = 1 Year to obsolite (1 Year old)
Geforce 4 Ti ANY = 2-3 Years to obsolite (6 months old)
ATI 9700 = 4 Years to obsolite (next month or two)
NV30 = 5 Years to obsolite (end of year est.)
ATI 10000 (made up) = 6 Years to obsolite (Spring 2003 guessing)
NV35 = 7 Years to obsolite (Fall 2003 guessing)
whats my point you ask? Do you see a trend yet? Within 1 year from now Nvidia and ATI will make a video card that'll consume the earth! From my limited brain I figure, with this comming battle between ATI and Nvidia, we'll still have to wait YEARS before any of their great features used to full potential. Because of what boys and girls? BACKWARDS MOBILITY!!! These poor game programmers are staying up til 4am every night trying to make games that use the R8500 and GF3 features and still run on older graphic cards. And what about the all important Frames Per Second? Well if you can tell the difference between your vid card's 400 fps vs. mine @ 200 fps your definitely the better cyborg...oops...I meant man!
Facts:
- I am not a fanboy, I like whatever does the job
- R9700 is cool, plain and simple
- The NV30 will be cool as well, simple and plain
Well said coomarlin. DeafRef isn't worth any of our time, he simply makes insults and little else. It's a pity DeafRef stuck his nose in, before then everybody was giving unbiased praise, mostly just glad that gfx cards weren't heading for a M$ type monopoly. NicColt, don't forget the Rad8500/8500LE are both superior to Rad9000/9000Pro, it is just much cheaper (and therefore higher profit) for ATI to produce the Rad9000 cards. Check out the prices the 8500 cards are going for, if you think you'll be in the market for a 9000 then get an 8500 before ATI ceases production. DZip, even an Athlon1.4ghz (no disrespect) can take advantage of anything GF4TI4200 and higher, with a noticable difference between cards. I think anybody could tell the difference between GF4TI4600 and Rad9700, about 50% faster is a lot, and that is even more with its fantastic Aniso perf, not to mention with CPU prices that XP2000+ and 2.0ghz are within everybody's reach. As usual I don't think these top cards are a good buy for anybody, they devalue far too quickly, IMHO anybody above 800mhz should get either a GF3 or Rad8500 ($90), or else above 1.2ghz a GF4TI4200 ($150). All offer fantastic perf, they'll age well, games will use their features and you don't pay the Earth for them.
cmdrdredd
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2001
- 27,052
- 357
- 126
Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Hey, I see nothing wrong with Video Card "fanboys"! If they want to spend $400+ on a computer part that will be obsolete in 18 months, then I say go for it! It's the people who are pre-ordering their Radeon 9700's right now for retail price that will help ATI boost their profit-margins for the next few months. Of course, these cards probably cost ATI about $80 each to produce, but SOMEONE has to pay for those full-page ads in PC Gamer, right?
Meanwhile, I'll sit back and wait a few months for the competition to produce a superior or competitive product. That way, I'll be able to pick up the latest ATI or NVidia video card without having to pay the insanely high introduction price. Games that actually take advantage of the new DirectX 9 features might actually be out by then, so I'm not paying a fortune just to play Quake 3 at 1600x1200 at 120 frames a second.
I can play Q3 right now at 1600x1200 at 120FPS!
Some of you need a cold show...you know who you are !
ATI looks as though they have scored bigtime...some observations.
1) Hopefully prices on ALL cards will be more competitve and fall to a reasonable level.
2) Since the 9700 is a REAL chipset jump then I hope future improvememts from both
ATI & NVIDIA will not be another $300 rehash every 6 months. Don't give stats on
vaporware that does not even exist except in your mind. I'm sic n' tired of the pressure
to drop that kind of money to "have the best". That's why I upgrade my video every
18 months to 2 years.
3) Competition is GOOD for us all. Let's hope that nVidia CAN produce what they need
in the next product cycle. 3DFX was gone and out of business after they missed 2
cycles...we don't want the lack of competiton but MORE of it. Capitalism is
the American way and NOT a dirty word. And Canadians are our friends !
4) We need to realized that most systems made today will actually be slower with the
9700 being CPU dependent for the first time in years. You vets that go back some
years as I do remember that...the rest of you new kids will learn that. Your next
compalnt will be the cost to replace the rest of your system...
5) It may be up to 6 months before any games really take advantage of all the
9700 or MV30 features. Todays Q3 benchmarls are a joke with DX 8.1 games.
Show me reatime benches with the features as advertised for both cards.
None of this exists YET...so fanboys on either side take a deep breath and make
some sense of it all.
6) If your in the market as I am, what to buy ?
I'd say wait, patience will save you money and is your friend. The ti4600's will drop
like a rock in a few weeks time GUARANTEED ! I may spring for the 9700 but please
let's wait for REAL benches in real world systems. With NDA's off cards will become
availabe, a lot of you will sing a differnt tune...until the next product cycle hits.
then we dance to these companies again !!!!
My 2 cents
ATI looks as though they have scored bigtime...some observations.
1) Hopefully prices on ALL cards will be more competitve and fall to a reasonable level.
2) Since the 9700 is a REAL chipset jump then I hope future improvememts from both
ATI & NVIDIA will not be another $300 rehash every 6 months. Don't give stats on
vaporware that does not even exist except in your mind. I'm sic n' tired of the pressure
to drop that kind of money to "have the best". That's why I upgrade my video every
18 months to 2 years.
3) Competition is GOOD for us all. Let's hope that nVidia CAN produce what they need
in the next product cycle. 3DFX was gone and out of business after they missed 2
cycles...we don't want the lack of competiton but MORE of it. Capitalism is
the American way and NOT a dirty word. And Canadians are our friends !
4) We need to realized that most systems made today will actually be slower with the
9700 being CPU dependent for the first time in years. You vets that go back some
years as I do remember that...the rest of you new kids will learn that. Your next
compalnt will be the cost to replace the rest of your system...
5) It may be up to 6 months before any games really take advantage of all the
9700 or MV30 features. Todays Q3 benchmarls are a joke with DX 8.1 games.
Show me reatime benches with the features as advertised for both cards.
None of this exists YET...so fanboys on either side take a deep breath and make
some sense of it all.
6) If your in the market as I am, what to buy ?
I'd say wait, patience will save you money and is your friend. The ti4600's will drop
like a rock in a few weeks time GUARANTEED ! I may spring for the 9700 but please
let's wait for REAL benches in real world systems. With NDA's off cards will become
availabe, a lot of you will sing a differnt tune...until the next product cycle hits.
then we dance to these companies again !!!!
My 2 cents
hero:
The cards we have now would be more than enough to play games at 1600x1200 (or higher if you have the support) with no eye candy...but with the (sort of) recent introduction of FSAA and everything else, it really eats up the framerate. The pure triangle count and things of that sort may not increase for another few years, but i'd love to see more features (esp in lighting...can't wait to see more demos of Doom III) that make scenes look more realistic...talking on-card features that are backwards compatible with older games too. The hardware may be ahead of the games in one respect, but that's all the more headroom to add card based features for more realistic scenes.
Hats off to ATI for HyperZ, etc. and fighting performance hits with technology instead of brute power...just get the drivers right and we'll be sailing smooth. I'm excited to see what the NV30 will offer, esp in terms of clock speed with the .13u process.
The cards we have now would be more than enough to play games at 1600x1200 (or higher if you have the support) with no eye candy...but with the (sort of) recent introduction of FSAA and everything else, it really eats up the framerate. The pure triangle count and things of that sort may not increase for another few years, but i'd love to see more features (esp in lighting...can't wait to see more demos of Doom III) that make scenes look more realistic...talking on-card features that are backwards compatible with older games too. The hardware may be ahead of the games in one respect, but that's all the more headroom to add card based features for more realistic scenes.
Hats off to ATI for HyperZ, etc. and fighting performance hits with technology instead of brute power...just get the drivers right and we'll be sailing smooth. I'm excited to see what the NV30 will offer, esp in terms of clock speed with the .13u process.
People please your're taking all this seriously, look both this companies (ATI and NVIDIA) are very good
graphic powers and both produce excellent video cards so don't argue for hours about who's the best
who's that in the end we get nothing from this companies !!! but I respect both this Indrustries for Producing such wonderful cards and I thank them very much for the great job. Continue the good work
graphic powers and both produce excellent video cards so don't argue for hours about who's the best
who's that in the end we get nothing from this companies !!! but I respect both this Indrustries for Producing such wonderful cards and I thank them very much for the great job. Continue the good work
Acually the Radeon 10000 is just a .13um DDR-II 9700 .... so it will be like a 9700 Ultra kinda thing. Prob 400Mhz core .... cuz sammy said they have 1Ghz DDR-II ram by sept ... adn the Radeon 10000 is expected Q4-2002/Q1-2003. As for all of the NV30/35 stuff ..... I havent seen anything lately from Nvidia that turns my head .... just raw power doesnt get to me anymore. And truform ect ... i really just love new tech .... not just raw power .... with the 9700 now its both ... and im so in love with it
SSXeon
Didn't read the thread but... Couldn't we say the same thing about NV30? I mean, soon after NV30 is released, Ati will release the .13 micron refresh of R300. It will have higher clock-speed and faster RAM, and it will propably have other improvements as well (maybe they add another texture-unit to the pixel-pipelines?).
I bet that when NV30 is relesed and if/when it beats R300, you scream how NVIDIA has crushed Ati. Even though you now say that regardless of the fact that Ati has the better product, it hasn't beaten NVIDIA, since NVIDIA will soon have new product available. Well, Ati will have new product available soon after NV30, so what's your point?
SickBeast
"DeafRef: STFU
You must be blind AND deaf...blind from looking at the crap 2D output of your nvidia-based POS!!! Oh, and by the way, it sounds like you have a serious case of penis-envy. Get help."
I'll put your ATI card against my Leadtek Geforce 3 TI, in a 2d comparasion any day of the week.
Its been said a million times. Nvidia doesnt make graphics cards. only the chips. its up to the manufactures to put in the 2d filters.
Look at articles on the net, (firingsquad is a good example) matrox's Parheilia is the first card to ship with noticeably better 2d then the Leadtek geforce Ti series.
The 9700 may be better as well But I've seen no 2d comparasions yet,
I dont want to get involved with the flames I'm just stating a fact, nvidia chipsets can output the same 2d quality as any ati chipset if the right hardware is in place to do so. the leadteks a prime example.
"DeafRef: STFU
You must be blind AND deaf...blind from looking at the crap 2D output of your nvidia-based POS!!! Oh, and by the way, it sounds like you have a serious case of penis-envy. Get help."
I'll put your ATI card against my Leadtek Geforce 3 TI, in a 2d comparasion any day of the week.
Its been said a million times. Nvidia doesnt make graphics cards. only the chips. its up to the manufactures to put in the 2d filters.
Look at articles on the net, (firingsquad is a good example) matrox's Parheilia is the first card to ship with noticeably better 2d then the Leadtek geforce Ti series.
The 9700 may be better as well But I've seen no 2d comparasions yet,
I dont want to get involved with the flames I'm just stating a fact, nvidia chipsets can output the same 2d quality as any ati chipset if the right hardware is in place to do so. the leadteks a prime example.
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