I'd suggest to Anand to try and move to a Mac, no touching a PC, for a month and see what he thinks of them after that.
No, Mac enthusiasts tend to be stuck with their machines much longer then PC enthusiasts. I fix computers for people I know and the fastest one I've fixed in the last six months was a P3 933, next to that it was sub 400MHZ(down to a Cyrix 180MHZ). They all still run all software perfectly fine and performance wasn't an issue for any of the people(well one, I added about $30 worth of RAM and they said it was like a whole new computer- Celery 300A @default).
Biggest problem with Macs is that they are a closed platform. No, you can't build your own. You can build a PPC machine on your own but it will cost you significantly more and without the proprietary ROM you can't run OSX or OS9(the Mac loyalists used to claim OS9 was better then XP/2K when Win98 didn't even use lube on it
).
For those of you thinking you would really enjoy a Mac I say to you try and not use a PC for a month, only a Mac, and see what you think. I ran Apple machines for many years, back to the early Apple ][ days, and I am fully convinced you can not have a full, proper, loathing of the platform until you are used to a PC and then have to go without one.
No, Mac enthusiasts tend to be stuck with their machines much longer then PC enthusiasts. I fix computers for people I know and the fastest one I've fixed in the last six months was a P3 933, next to that it was sub 400MHZ(down to a Cyrix 180MHZ). They all still run all software perfectly fine and performance wasn't an issue for any of the people(well one, I added about $30 worth of RAM and they said it was like a whole new computer- Celery 300A @default).
Biggest problem with Macs is that they are a closed platform. No, you can't build your own. You can build a PPC machine on your own but it will cost you significantly more and without the proprietary ROM you can't run OSX or OS9(the Mac loyalists used to claim OS9 was better then XP/2K when Win98 didn't even use lube on it
). For those of you thinking you would really enjoy a Mac I say to you try and not use a PC for a month, only a Mac, and see what you think. I ran Apple machines for many years, back to the early Apple ][ days, and I am fully convinced you can not have a full, proper, loathing of the platform until you are used to a PC and then have to go without one.
Duvie, I used to think more highly of you until you posted this. This is probably the most unintelligent thing to come out of you that I have ever seen. Apple is "computers for dummies"????
Oh c'mon... give me a break man. Clearly YOU haven't used OSX yet or you wouldn't be saying that. Or maybe you don't care about OSX. Either way, your comments are based on ignorance due to the fact you really JUST DON'T KNOW exactly what Macs are capable of... and putting them down is your high-school way of making you feel better about yourself because you're strictly a PC user.
Back in the 80s and early 90s I used both macs and pcs. Then macs just faded from my computing existence.
Today:
1. Hardware getting more interesting, although real comparisons (not just biased impressions) are hard to come by.
2. Hardware is basically proprietary. I can't build one.
3. Cost is up there.
4. osX appears to be pretty slick and, for a change for Apple, more "power user" interesting. Apple is the number one Unix distributor, right?
I have started to keep my eye on apple more and more. We'll see how their PowerPC alliance with IBM works out in terms of future chips.
Today:
1. Hardware getting more interesting, although real comparisons (not just biased impressions) are hard to come by.
2. Hardware is basically proprietary. I can't build one.
3. Cost is up there.
4. osX appears to be pretty slick and, for a change for Apple, more "power user" interesting. Apple is the number one Unix distributor, right?
I have started to keep my eye on apple more and more. We'll see how their PowerPC alliance with IBM works out in terms of future chips.
That's fantastic if you don't know anything about computers.
The problem with what you are seeing, is that Apple determines what you get not the user. The custimization is gone..
I have a Mac w/ OSX on my desk at work. The ONLY time I turn to it is if I have to find a location of a file. Because other than that, it's slower, louder, and takes longer to get the same things done as the PC.
That's a primary issue. Most people who have soured on Macs, not all, but a great deal I've come in contact with have not spent much time with Mac OS 10.2+. They got out of Mac back in the G3 or pre-G3 days mostly. Mac OS 9 was a counterpart to Windows 98 or so. I'm sure most of us here discussing finer points of hardware and software have probably upgraded past that point, correct? Just like the Windows machines have evolved to include more stability in 2000 and XP, the Mac has done the same, but on a larger scale by actually throwing out their entire OS and starting from the ground up with X's Unix background. It wasn't an easy transition, but it appears Microsoft is trying almost the same thinking with Longhorn, which I'm sure won't be completely painless either.
I mean, I could rant and rave all day about how my last PC was horrible running Windows 95 on very slow hardware. I could complain about XP if I found a way to install it on obsolete hardware as well. I have my Macs and I do 100% of my work on them. I have my Athlon 64 and it runs very nicely as well. I'm dying to get a G5 to sit next to it because I know it'll run great too.
I mean, I could rant and rave all day about how my last PC was horrible running Windows 95 on very slow hardware. I could complain about XP if I found a way to install it on obsolete hardware as well. I have my Macs and I do 100% of my work on them. I have my Athlon 64 and it runs very nicely as well. I'm dying to get a G5 to sit next to it because I know it'll run great too.
Must be nice to be crapping cash, the fact is 99.9% of the population are interested in 1 thing over everything else, $. and no mac person can say apples are inexpensive. If they ever learn to price lower many, and I mean many people will go to them but while their low end G5 is 1800 bucks w/o a monitor nobody in numbers will buy them. Dell's XPS machine runs 1700 (which is more power than the low end mac) bucks and includes a 17 inch flat panel.
I still regularly use a G3 powerbook I bought back in '99 as my main system. The combination of the portability (with ~10 hours of battery life using both bays) and being able to have a Unix prompt and the MS Office Suite side by side is very handy. In terms of TCO it was one of the best computer hardware purchases I have ever made - granted I haven't been forking out $ for these OS X point releases (no features I particularly need). Apple systems are well suited for both power users and for total computer novices, noticing one demographic using a Mac shouldn't confuse the potential for other demographics. The percentage of slashdot members who own at least one mac has been rising rapidly in recent years (almost entirely due to OS X).
I'm kind of tempted to pick up the latest OS X release. The development tools they are bundling with the OS sound fun to play around with. I've enjoyed learning a little Objective C with the version of the tools I have. I really wished I had access to some of the bullet points of Xcode in the development environment at my last programming job. Stuff like "fix and continue" and "distributed builds" can potentially save a lot of time in the appropriate environment. I know it's possible to license distributed build technologies in a PC development environment, but they certainly aren't bundling technology like that with XP or Visual Studio.
Honestly, I think people who still have partisan feelings about the whole Mac/PC thing are being silly. They're both good platforms. Figure out what your needs are and get a rig appropriate to those needs (hence my building a budget gaming PC for games - that's all I use it for too). On a pure feature for feature basis, Apple laptops are a pretty good deal, but they don't really offer much on the budget end of the spectrum. All 'needs' factors aside, I would only push any non-G5 desktop Apple on a relatively novice user because the desktop systems really are a poor value for their featuresets. The G5s have a coolness factor to them that makes me want one even though I have absolutely no need for such a machine - I love the system design (especially the airflow / cooling solution). If I have any fear that a person I'm helping will try to come to me with "tech support" type questions, I steer them towards buying a Mac and getting AppleCare rather than offering to build them something.
If you're already a tech-savvy multi-system guy, there's no shame in adding a Mac to the mix. Think of it as updating your linux box if it makes you feel better.
I'm kind of tempted to pick up the latest OS X release. The development tools they are bundling with the OS sound fun to play around with. I've enjoyed learning a little Objective C with the version of the tools I have. I really wished I had access to some of the bullet points of Xcode in the development environment at my last programming job. Stuff like "fix and continue" and "distributed builds" can potentially save a lot of time in the appropriate environment. I know it's possible to license distributed build technologies in a PC development environment, but they certainly aren't bundling technology like that with XP or Visual Studio.
Honestly, I think people who still have partisan feelings about the whole Mac/PC thing are being silly. They're both good platforms. Figure out what your needs are and get a rig appropriate to those needs (hence my building a budget gaming PC for games - that's all I use it for too). On a pure feature for feature basis, Apple laptops are a pretty good deal, but they don't really offer much on the budget end of the spectrum. All 'needs' factors aside, I would only push any non-G5 desktop Apple on a relatively novice user because the desktop systems really are a poor value for their featuresets. The G5s have a coolness factor to them that makes me want one even though I have absolutely no need for such a machine - I love the system design (especially the airflow / cooling solution). If I have any fear that a person I'm helping will try to come to me with "tech support" type questions, I steer them towards buying a Mac and getting AppleCare rather than offering to build them something.
If you're already a tech-savvy multi-system guy, there's no shame in adding a Mac to the mix. Think of it as updating your linux box if it makes you feel better.
I like overclocking, case modding and cooling, and buying new cheap parts. And I'm into gaming. So I have no use for a mac as my main rig.
A customer of mine gave me an ruby imac G3. It's a nice little machine. It'll play movies and has ethernet. But to me its more of a toy. I gave it to my grandma. At 84 years old she used a computer and went online for the first time in her life. She loved it.
A customer of mine gave me an ruby imac G3. It's a nice little machine. It'll play movies and has ethernet. But to me its more of a toy. I gave it to my grandma. At 84 years old she used a computer and went online for the first time in her life. She loved it.
jdogg707
Diamond Member
- Jun 24, 2002
- 6,098
- 0
- 76
Most people who say "Macs are for dummies" have never actually used one. They take from what other people who have said that they are too easy to use and offer no customization and then spin it off into some BS PC propoganda. I have been a PC user for 10 years, ever since I got my first Windows machine, but a few months ago I picked up a Powerbook and absolutely love it! It may be true that Apple's cost a lot, but they're good machines, and you get what you pay for. I still like my PC, but don't understand the people who say that OS X is a "stupider" operating system than Windows XP...I mean OS X is built on Unix, can run different Window Managers, open source software ported to Linux/Unix...I mean with Windows you get WindowBlinds if you want a different UI. I used the Mac the same as a PC, Office, web browsing, Distributed Computing, light gaming, watching DVD's, music, programming, etc. I probably wouldn't buy an Apple desktop because I like to build my own and with the lack of customization to their desktop line, it would probably frustrate me; but when it comes to a laptop that is a great desktop replacement without the added weight, I think you'd be hard pressed to make a better decision...at least in my opinion.
runzwithsizorz
Diamond Member
- Jan 24, 2002
- 3,497
- 14
- 76
Way back in the "dark ages" Apple corp donated free Apple computers to every school in the state of California. Since then, many schools still cling to the Apple format (my middle school is one). I prefer PC's for all the reasons already stated, BUT Mac's have the edge on graphics display, video and photo editing, done with EASE and little fuss. Their CD burning software is the best out there. And they are $$$$$. However, with Dell's new LCD 2001fp monitor (16 ms refresh rate and 1600 x 1200 pixels at 60hz), Macs' graphics display is no longer a big issue. However, for many the ease of using Mac products outweighs the other drawbacks.
Well, as it was so nicely put, I am not "crapping cash".
My Macintosh experience has, though, gotten me every IT position I've had in my life, so I guess the Mac does make me money.
All I know is none of my Macs have broken down, or needed repair besides for a brown out that shorted one out. Never had a virus of anything of that nature. I work in a dual platform environment of Mac and PC and have extensive experience in both plaforms. I just don't enjoy my PC as much as I do my Macs. For me, not having Windows, and getting iLife, Final Cut and such is worth it to me.
My Macintosh experience has, though, gotten me every IT position I've had in my life, so I guess the Mac does make me money.
All I know is none of my Macs have broken down, or needed repair besides for a brown out that shorted one out. Never had a virus of anything of that nature. I work in a dual platform environment of Mac and PC and have extensive experience in both plaforms. I just don't enjoy my PC as much as I do my Macs. For me, not having Windows, and getting iLife, Final Cut and such is worth it to me.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,580
- 982
- 126
Too expensive.
To the person who complained that Dell was run of the mill and that the Mac was very quiet: I bought a new Dell system for my Mom-In-Law about 6 months ago, it is black and has a flat panel display which looks very slick. It is also dead quiet. I hooked it up and turned it on and if I wasn't looking at the screen during bootup I wouldn't have known it was on. Dell has done an excellent job at making a quiet PC (at least on the lower priced home/small business systems).
To the person who complained that Dell was run of the mill and that the Mac was very quiet: I bought a new Dell system for my Mom-In-Law about 6 months ago, it is black and has a flat panel display which looks very slick. It is also dead quiet. I hooked it up and turned it on and if I wasn't looking at the screen during bootup I wouldn't have known it was on. Dell has done an excellent job at making a quiet PC (at least on the lower priced home/small business systems).
Power970 is some good stuff. The new 90ns and the effort IBM is putting into goes to show that it will be able to keep up with PC's.
The #1 and #2 reasons to not use Macs in the past was the Lack of cpu power, and the price.
Cpu power for the g5 is at least on par with current PC offerings which is a great thing. The price is still a sticking point, but with that you get quality and support.
Look the dual cpu powerG5 has everything PC enthuists want. 64bit proccessor, large fast dual channel memory. Fast PCI bus, latest and greatest in inputs and outputs (firewire 800 usb2, sata drives, gigabyte lan, etc etc). It's whisper quiet and will run for a long time.
If your playing games then your best bet will be wintel for a long time, but otherwise their is no real reason to pick PC's over Apple, other then price and personal preference.
Anyways if you spec out a comparable machine to the dual g5, (a single cpu AMD-64, premium aluminum case etc etc) then your going to be within maybe 300-400 dollars with the apple. Then if your CPU melts or memory doesn't work or whatnot, then you can quickly get a computer more expensive then a Apple.
The #1 and #2 reasons to not use Macs in the past was the Lack of cpu power, and the price.
Cpu power for the g5 is at least on par with current PC offerings which is a great thing. The price is still a sticking point, but with that you get quality and support.
Look the dual cpu powerG5 has everything PC enthuists want. 64bit proccessor, large fast dual channel memory. Fast PCI bus, latest and greatest in inputs and outputs (firewire 800 usb2, sata drives, gigabyte lan, etc etc). It's whisper quiet and will run for a long time.
If your playing games then your best bet will be wintel for a long time, but otherwise their is no real reason to pick PC's over Apple, other then price and personal preference.
Anyways if you spec out a comparable machine to the dual g5, (a single cpu AMD-64, premium aluminum case etc etc) then your going to be within maybe 300-400 dollars with the apple. Then if your CPU melts or memory doesn't work or whatnot, then you can quickly get a computer more expensive then a Apple.
some humor http://www.flogged.net/media/video/whymacssuck.wmv
i like the comparison of old macs with win98. however, i STILL think win98 ran better than the old mac OSes. i seriously pulled hairs out with macs.
i like the comparison of old macs with win98. however, i STILL think win98 ran better than the old mac OSes. i seriously pulled hairs out with macs.
Damn
And to think web design for me consisted of my Tandy 486 SX 25 MHz back in 1994 (3200 / 25 = 128 times more CPU power not including performance enhancements, new instructions, faster bus etc). Kids these days
biostud
Lifer
- Feb 27, 2003
- 19,925
- 7,036
- 136
Looks nice
But I can't for any reason see why you can still buy a 1-button mouse. I had to work in a lab where they only had 1-button mice, when used to 5-buttons it was VERY frustrating. And the mouse costs 49$ it's totally absurd.
And since I'm a gamer I'm not switching.
But I can't for any reason see why you can still buy a 1-button mouse. I had to work in a lab where they only had 1-button mice, when used to 5-buttons it was VERY frustrating. And the mouse costs 49$ it's totally absurd.
And since I'm a gamer I'm not switching.
"My neighbor down the street does things my more computer savvy wife can't do and yet when you talk to here she doesn't know squat about what she is doing or what happened to get to the finished point....Just a few clicks she says and it is done. Five minutes more talking to her and I am convinced turning on the power is the most complexed thing she understands...."
This is a bad thing how?? I'm glad we can all drive cars w/o having a lift in the garage. You think everybody would be talking on cell phones if they had to understand how they operated? Specialization is the future and the future is now. The computer as you apparently know and love it is on the way out.
This is a bad thing how?? I'm glad we can all drive cars w/o having a lift in the garage. You think everybody would be talking on cell phones if they had to understand how they operated? Specialization is the future and the future is now. The computer as you apparently know and love it is on the way out.
CAN"T BUILD ONE IS NOT THE SAME THING AS PROPRIETARY
===
"I would buy my mom an IMac in a second if the Fvckers were not so overpriced!!!"
so grab your credit card and your soldering iron. pickup an emac 800 from special deals in the apple store for $529 and over clock it to 1.3. add ram and tell mom virus, spyware, and worms concern her not. for the time i spend repairing my mom's pc i just might do that. what's the time of your life worth to you?
===
"Pc architecture is somewhat open source ( you can build your own from semi-scratch)....apple is as closed as the gates of heaven....."
you are using the phrase "open source". i do not think you know what it means.
===
"apple is for hippies"
sure thing tough guy. i know a few marines they're popular with. generalizations are for little minds.
===
"I would buy my mom an IMac in a second if the Fvckers were not so overpriced!!!"
so grab your credit card and your soldering iron. pickup an emac 800 from special deals in the apple store for $529 and over clock it to 1.3. add ram and tell mom virus, spyware, and worms concern her not. for the time i spend repairing my mom's pc i just might do that. what's the time of your life worth to you?
===
"Pc architecture is somewhat open source ( you can build your own from semi-scratch)....apple is as closed as the gates of heaven....."
you are using the phrase "open source". i do not think you know what it means.
===
"apple is for hippies"
sure thing tough guy. i know a few marines they're popular with. generalizations are for little minds.
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