An explanation of a vote for Kerry

[slyedog]

steeplerot quote:
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Passing through bases is not experiencing them any more then passing through on a greyhound.
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you seem to know a lot about the military. what branch were you in?

 

[Genx87]

Wow another self-serving liberal writing about red states when they live in NYC?

/yawn

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
What makes you think she is materialistic? I can't see pegging yuppie on her becasue she has flow alone.

downtown new york lawyer, please...that area alone breeds materialism.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
What makes you think she is materialistic? I can't see pegging yuppie on her becasue she has flow alone.

downtown new york lawyer, please...that area alone breeds materialism.

Stop with the class warfare bozack. Just because she makes more money than you is no reason you should be jealous.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: daveymark

Um, no, we watch something else. this is a blue state issue. Look at the neilsen ratings. they place the boxes in the blue cities. No, they don't. They ran a statistical sampling service and no one who does that would skewer their results like that.

You simply made that up.

Here is the actual Nielsen method:

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/whatratingsmean/

Look at your own stats. Which color are the top three cities? You refuted your claim with your own stats.

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: daveymark

Um, no. The blue cities actually lead the country in divorce rates. I will support my numbers with facts once you support your numbers with facts.

Simply not true, you got it wrong.

A quick google gives: http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html

Top 10 or so for lowest divorce:

1 Massachusetts 14,530 2.4
2 Connecticut 9,095 2.8
3 New Jersey 23,899 3.0
4 Rhode Island 3,231 3.2
5 New York 59,195 3.3
Pennsylvania 40,040 3.3
7 Wisconsin 17,478 3.4
North Dakota 2,201 3.4
9 Maryland 17,439 3.5
10 Minnesota 16,217 3.6

Top 10 or so for highest rate:

42 Florida 82,963 5.9
43 New Mexico 9,882 6.0
44 Idaho 7,075 6.2
Alabama 26,116 6.2
46 Indiana *** 6.4
47 Wyoming 3,071 6.5
48 Tennessee 34,167 6.6
49 Oklahoma 21,855 6.7
50 Arkansas 17,458 7.1
51 Nevada 13,061 9.0

I was referring to cities, not states. Try again.

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: daveymark

Um, no. Reagan was the reason we had the economic boom, and Bush will be the reason we will continue to have an economic boom.

Hahha. The Bush economic boom? I have news for you - Bush's policies are going to usher in one of our worst economic times. But that is beside the point.

You did nothing to refute the economic assertions I made.

Originally posted by: ForThePeople


Since I've done all of the other research I'll leave you to post facts that back up your assertion (or, as it is better described, "belief.") But I assure you that the facts are on my side in this case too.

I was talking about apples, and you did research on oranges. In the one case that you correctly researched, your own facts proved you wrong.

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Oh, and like the other red staters you need to work on your reading comprehension - these 3 points are the things that you selected as the most worth highlighting? God help us I hope they aren't all as stupid as you.

I was addressing the three points made by the poster before me. Again, your "reading comprehension" insult is turned back onto you. Resorting to calling someone "Stupid" is immature. Stick with the facts, and you'll get respect, even if the other person thinks you're wrong.

 

[CocoMunkee]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: ForThePeople
Let's start with the basics. This is your red state anti-intellectualism at its finest. Work is only hard or worthwhile if it is somehow physically demanding. The quiet nobility of the farmer, day laborer, construction worker, etc. Those jobs of the everyman unencumbered by book learning. The simple life. That great red state myth.

What you people don't realize, or want to admit, is that those jobs are only possible because of the overtaxed educated people who pay for it.

Lets start with the basics, your first mistake was making the ASSumption that I, or anyone in my immediate or extended family is from a "red" state and or has held what one would consider a "blue collar" type job, but seeing as you are a lunatic liberal I am not surprised by your arrogance and your pompous attitude. The fact is that I personally lived most of my life in Massachusetts and did a short stint in Washington DC working for the Government, my wife and her family grew up in Connecticut...we both graduated from very liberal colleges situated in western Massachusetts (She has a masters in Chemistry while I have my Bachelors in Political Science) and we both work in the Biotech industry...so where you come off with "your red state anti-intellectualism at its finest. Work is only hard or worthwhile if it is somehow physically demanding?and ?you people" is beyond me...

What you liberal elitists don?t realize is that if it were not for those red state welfare queens working their asses off for the pittance they receive, liberal yuppies such as yourself wouldn?t be able to sit in your posh Manhattan apartments, sipping your grey goose vodka martinis, wearing your Mont blanc cufflinks and your international wrist watch or Patek wristwatches bitching about how difficult your lives are and how there is this great disconnect between the red and the blue and how it is all the fault of the uneducated, unwashed red states, unable to see that it goes both ways and that maybe YOU are the ones in the need of reform?

Where do you red state farmers get your money? Federal welfare in the form of farm subsidies paid for by taxing the blue states professionals in their cities (farmers would go absolutely bankrupt without this welfare, just like they did before FDR, a liberal Democrat, created the subsidies to alleviate the poverty and bankruptcies of the farmers.) You owe your income to the book learning professionals on the coasts.

Construction worker, day laborer, etc - where do they get their money from? Why, it's the professional class that wants luxury houses and manicured lawns. Again a category that wouldn't be profitable without those very same educated professionals.

That is the crux of the matter - regardless of what you want to believe the fact of the matter is that it is blue state professionals who make up the tax base that supports the red state welfare queens.

And where do the Blue elitist yuppies get their food, or their luxury townhouses, or their manicured lawns?without the labors and efforts of the lower paid ?blue? workers people in the cities would be screwed, possibly more so than those in the red without the yuppies who bitch and moan such as yourself. Just as the red owes a debt to the blue for subsidizing their efforts, in my opinion it is the blue who owes a greater debt to the red for choosing (or being forced) to sacrifice their quality of life for a substandard level when compared to the great almighty blue and provide basic sustenance that pompous yuppies such as yourself need to survive.

There is nothing proud about having to work in manual labor. It is no accident that those who do are poorly educated. There is something noteworthy and worthwhile in getting an education. You red states - you value voters - have your values completely backwards.

Oh please, so now you are demeaning manual/physical labor, nice?show your true colors why don?t you. This is a prime example of why people in the blue are given a bad rap, because of elitist ass-hats such as yourself. I don?t think anything more needs to be said on this comment as it speaks for itself.

Now let's move on to what she actually said (and here I should point out that your reading comprehension needs some work, bozack, as you completely missed her point).

What she said was:

I am a taxpayer. I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents.
My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college. I worked my way through
graduate school. I won a full tuition scholarship to law school. All for the
privilege of working 2,600 hours last year. That works out to a 50 hour week,
every week, without any vacation days at all. I get to work by 9 am and rarely
leave before 9 p.m. I eat dinner at my office much more often than I eat dinner
at home. My husband and I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year. At
some point in the future, we will have to pay much more - - once this country
faces its deficit and the impossible burden of Social Security. In fact, the
areas of the country that supported Kerry - - New York, California, Illinois,
Massachusetts - - they are the financial centers of the nation. They are the tax
base of this country. How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute
to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you
pay for?

This is not, contrary to what you think, her "griping because she makes x amount of dollars and works over 40 hours a week." No, her point is that once again it is the blue states are paying for the red states desires. She is making the same claim that is ignored - the blue states, who are indeed the tax base of the nation, have been slandered by the very government which they feed. Sure, you red states love to tell us how you are the real Americans but yet when the check comes it is always picked up by the blue states. We never minded until you started lying about us, slandering us, demeaning us.

What is your point exactly? That I should owe a debt of gratitude? Like I said the red states are sacrificing their lives to support the lifestyles that the inhabitants of the blue take for granted because they have to own their Louis Vuitton Handbags or their Armani suits. Here we have a woman who worked her way through graduate school (whoop-te-do..what as a TA and the rest with grants that can be paid off after graduation??woo there is a toughie)?.or someone who has to work a fifty hour week every week..damn that sounds rough, hell I used to work 80 hour weeks at least and still work about what she puts in, plus I pay percentage wise about as much if not more than she does in taxes yet you don?t see me bitching.

I love this line the best?..

? How much did you pay, Kansas? How much did you contribute to this government you support, Alabama? How much of this war in Iraq did you
pay for.?

Honestly she should stick to griping about her mocha latte or riding out her paralegal who does the real work anyway than trying to place blame/burden on the red?if it weren?t for them working in the muck she wouldn?t even be able to sip her chai or have that late night sushi snack. Seems like a big one-way mirror with people like this.

How about you say "thank you for letting me keep my farm and be able to raise a family." Or "I appreciate the roads on which I drive but which you paid for," or "I am glad that you have states with great educational systems that produce some of the best students in the world."

Here we go again, just like she should say thank you for giving PF Changs that nice head of lettuce that went into her vegetarian egg rolls, or thank you for keeping her Whole foods market stocked so she could just go in and pay for her groceries, or how about thank you for her sewer system and any other convenience that this elitist snob takes for granted.

The bottom line in her note and in this election and in the divide in our country is that you are hypocrites. You whine about being overtaxed despite the fact that you are massive welfare queens and then make fun of someone who "makes too much money." You make fun of the educated who subsidize your lifestyle and venerate those who didn't take advantage of an education and have only their raw labor to sell. You cry about the filth on TV but regularly consume what is on it instead of watching something else. You cry about the sanctity of marriage while you lead the country in divore rates. You make fun of liberals despite the fact that it was liberal presidents and liberal policies which brought us the greatest economic times.

Irony at its best, coming from someone who made a pretty big assumption about my background and current standing I don?t know if I should laugh at this or give it any merit. I love your comment about being a ?welfare queen??hate to break it to you sport but I probably pay more in taxes than you ever will and sorry if I have a problem with supporting a wasteful nearing socialized government that you libs just want to perpetuate and feed with more of the taxpayers money instead of fixing a system that is MOST CERTAINLY BROKEN. Also I find it interesting that you comment on my comprehension and then go on to say ?make fun of someone who "makes too much money." As I clearly stated I have no problem with high paid execs, doctors, sales people or even corp lawyers as long as they don?t bitch about their hardships and what not?but whenever I hear them gripe about how many hours they have to put in or give some woe is me sob story about the trials and tribulations of their life I want to bust a nut laughing and honestly who are they to be bitching. I also love your pompous assumption that anyone who isn?t anything didn?t take advantage of an education system instead of realizing that our system sucks and it is a fact that those in the red most certainly don?t have the same education opportunities as those in the major urban areas and thus don?t have the same opportunity to succeed?but then again to people like you those who work manual labor have to be a bunch of worthless fvckoffs right?

Your spiel on TV and divorce is fantastic?you first rail them out about being undereducated, basically morons?and now you are saying that they should have the knowledge to moderate that which they watch?you complain they are worthless because they don?t make real money and work laborious jobs and have no time to spend with their children yet you suggest the be real parents and control what their kids watch?get a clue, they complain about TVs content because they cannot invest the time with their kids, or hire high priced nannies to police their viewing habits and don?t want them subjected to all of the filth readily available on mainstream TV. With Divorce again education and means come into play, these people get married much younger than those in the cities because not only is it easier to run a household with two, but also education comes into play.

The last line is just moronic, I will be like you and assume that much of this is based on the last democratic moron to inhabit/denigrate the white house then that is just laughable?sure policies such as NAFTA brought us the great economic times we now experience?love it how you left fielders always think your guys are the next best thing to sliced bread when it comes to economic prowess and give little to no credit to the industries which brought about these great times?. you can thank great democratic leaders (namely Clinton) for advancing the efforts of off shoring which have brought us to our current state?

Thanks for the laugh though.

Well Said.
To all U despondent Liberals, Hope...

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: slyedog
steeplerot quote:
===============================================================
Passing through bases is not experiencing them any more then passing through on a greyhound.
=============================================================

you seem to know a lot about the military. what branch were you in?

USAF I joined early @ 17 to serve my home.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Stop with the class warfare bozack. Just because she makes more money than you is no reason you should be jealous.

again Info this has nothing to do with class warfare, I have nothing against those who make alot of money, some of the people whom I associate make upwards of 1.2 mil a year if not more and they are really great down to earth guys and gals however you never will hear one of them bitch about anything, most certainly not the lower class as they themselves were once at that point and worked their way up from nothing, with no financial aid, no family support....NOTHING..always turns out to be the pampered and assisted who bitch the most, case and point this lady.

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Stop with the class warfare bozack. Just because she makes more money than you is no reason you should be jealous.

again Info this has nothing to do with class warfare, I have nothing against those who make alot of money, some of the people whom I associate make upwards of 1.2 mil a year if not more and they are really great down to earth guys and gals however you never will hear one of them bitch about anything, most certainly not the lower class as they themselves were once at that point and worked their way up from nothing, with no financial aid, no family support....NOTHING..always turns out to be the pampered and assisted who bitch the most, case and point this lady.

Again with the reading comprehension problems. What she said was

"I worked my butt off to get where I did, and so did my parents. My parents saved and borrowed and sent me to college."

Which would indicate that she did, in fact, "work her way up." And I'd like to point out that it is you who went off on the rant about whick upscale vodka she probably drank, which designer watch she owns, which suit, which handbag... apparently you have no problem with people richer than you as long as they don't spend money on luxurious stuff. You don't mind the millionaire who drinks coors but damned be the liberal downtown NYC lawyer who enjoys a fine vodka.

It is you whose values are off. You are imposing an authenticity test on people and engaging in class warfare.

Oh, and but to refute a little point of yours: no, people like her don't need to thank farmers. There is an international farming market - if not for red state farmers her sushi lettuce (another authenticity test) could easily have come from Canada or Europe or other places. Slightly more expensive, of course, but let's not pretend that there is an equality between the person who needs to sell and the person with many places to buy.

You went off on a classic class warfare rant.

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Look at your own stats. Which color are the top three cities? You refuted your claim with your own stats.

Because they have more people. New York and the other blue cities simply have way more people. This does not mean anything in response to your original statement, namely that it was the tastes of blue states that lead to filth - what it shows is that we all, even the red states, watch the filth. We all consume it. A 20 share (20% of the population) in NY is the same as a 20 share in Knoxville - namely that 20% of that market are watching it - even though 20% of NY is a much larger group than 20% of Knoxville.

It is the share that matters and when you look at it we are all equal. The only difference is that we admit that we watch it and don't engage in the self-righteous histrionics of the red state hypocrites who call it filth and demand that the government crack down then turn in a 20 share for the same filth.

If they really and truly didn't watch it or wanted something else the market would respond. If the demand was for 400 Jesus biography channels it would be met. No, you want the same filth that we all do - you watch it in the same amount - but then go into hysterics decrying it.

As I said before - you are hypocrites.

Originally posted by: daveymark

I was referring to cities, not states. Try again.

Again, where are your numbers? Prove it. Going by city is simply a way to pick and choose the data that you want in order to support a preselected conclusion. "See, New York City has a greater divorce rate than Waco" which you can then trump around. It is much the same trick as pointing out that New York City has more viewers while neglecting that it is the percentage - and not the total viewers - which really matters.

Going by states is a better methodology for several reasons:

1) States have actual officials and departments that collect the data. It is states that grant divorces, states that grant marriages, states that have health data. There are no city wide statistics that are consistently collected because it is not their responsibility.

2) States average out better - a state of rural and city dwellers will average their rates rather than highlighting particularly extreme data points. So, for example, the Tulsa metropolitan area would average out with the vast rural population in a number which is easier to compare against the national average and other states.

3) To take this further it would be better to even go by region, thus averaging out the states. This yields the same conclusion - red states have the highest divorce rates.

Sure, you can respond with skewed data but you do so only after wanting to avoid what is the clear national picture. Spin it all you want I was right.

Oh, and you need some serious education in data collection and interpretation, and even some statistics classes.

I was talking about apples, and you did research on oranges. In the one case that you correctly researched, your own facts proved you wrong.

No, they proved you were incompetent to evaluate data. You didn't criticize the methodology, didn't account for what the right variable would be (that would be share and not population), didn't take into account background information (that New York has a larger population than most other cities), etc.

You looked at it, saw blue states were at the top, then simply said "I knew I was right" without even trying to understand it. And you ignored basic logic about free markets and how they act, which as I said before, would be piping in religious content on every channel if there was, indeed, a huge demand for it.

I was addressing the three points made by the poster before me. Again, your "reading comprehension" insult is turned back onto you. Resorting to calling someone "Stupid" is immature. Stick with the facts, and you'll get respect, even if the other person thinks you're wrong.

A spade is a spade. And I was the poster before you. You simply did exactly what I accused you of. I think you are stupid. I think that one of the biggest problems facing this country is a wave of stupid people who are unable to think critically, know nothing about how to read data, can't begin to know what are the right questions to ask, etc.

My problem is that you guys in the red states, in your zest to cut all taxes, have taxed yourselves into stupidity by cutting the feet out from underneath your educational systems. It is no accident you have the lowest teacher salaries, SAT scores, percent of college graduates, etc. In fact you have a net brain drain as you drive the educated away in droves.

And you are a perfect example - someone who can't read a simple chart and reason beyond "blue states are at the top."

You, sir, are educationally deprived and ignorant, or more simply, stupid.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople
Which would indicate that she did, in fact, "work her way up." And I'd like to point out that it is you who went off on the rant about whick upscale vodka she probably drank, which designer watch she owns, which suit, which handbag... apparently you have no problem with people richer than you as long as they don't spend money on luxurious stuff. You don't mind the millionaire who drinks coors but damned be the liberal downtown NYC lawyer who enjoys a fine vodka.

It is you whose values are off. You are imposing an authenticity test on people and engaging in class warfare.

Oh, and but to refute a little point of yours: no, people like her don't need to thank farmers. There is an international farming market - if not for red state farmers her sushi lettuce (another authenticity test) could easily have come from Canada or Europe or other places. Slightly more expensive, of course, but let's not pretend that there is an equality between the person who needs to sell and the person with many places to buy.

You went off on a classic class warfare rant.

Yet again you fall victim to the same fate as before..... making assumptions when you have no clue.


Had you actually done your homework and read a few of my back posts you would KNOW that I am an avid watch enthusiast and have personally owned two Rolex watches (Currently have an Explorer) as well as a high dollar Tag Heuer. I am also a fan of high dollar tasteful accessories (read cufflinks, class rings, stud sets, money clips, cigar cutters, humidors, home theater, sports cars) and collect very expensive fountain pens (have owned more than three montblancs, a pelikan, a few watermans and a couple of cross with the least expensive one costing upwards of $120 and the most almost $500), plus I enjoy smoking fine cigars and drink single malt scotch such as Macallen which costs upwards of $40 a bottle at discount prices and others....heck my wallet cost over $100 bucks which is nothing compared to a $700 louis Vuitton tacky POS but still more than many of the tightwads on AT are willing to spend on holding their money....

I enjoy luxury items very much and have absolutely nothing against those who like to endulge, many of those whom I know making upwards of $200K/year are avid watch and auto enthusiasts...some also collect fine pens which is where we have common ground. In fact one of my better friends who is very very intelligent retired at 35 a millionare in silicon valley and now sells Rolex watches among others on ebay as a hobby..

Also if you truly consider Grey goose "fine" vodka then I feel sorry for you. Also I would hardly call what she did any accomplishment, especially with those earning advanced degrees nowadays, now had she done it all without the help of her family then I would be impressed but I am sure if that were the case she wouldn't be bitching

oh boo hoo she works fifty hours a week, heck today I worked from 8:30am and just got out at 2:30 this morning...am I entitled to bitch and moan now as she was? no because I am happy I have a job that I love making the money that I do plain and simple.

while you feel that people like this clown are beholden to no one, I feel that she does owe the blue workers a debt of gratitude, they are the ones who support her pompous arrogant lifestyle.......while the produce can be sourced, the waste removal, housing maintence, taxi services and other things she and you take for granted can not.

 

[ForThePeople]

Originally posted by: bozack

Originally posted by: ForThePeople
Which would indicate that she did, in fact, "work her way up." And I'd like to point out that it is you who went off on the rant about whick upscale vodka she probably drank, which designer watch she owns, which suit, which handbag... apparently you have no problem with people richer than you as long as they don't spend money on luxurious stuff. You don't mind the millionaire who drinks coors but damned be the liberal downtown NYC lawyer who enjoys a fine vodka.

It is you whose values are off. You are imposing an authenticity test on people and engaging in class warfare.

Oh, and but to refute a little point of yours: no, people like her don't need to thank farmers. There is an international farming market - if not for red state farmers her sushi lettuce (another authenticity test) could easily have come from Canada or Europe or other places. Slightly more expensive, of course, but let's not pretend that there is an equality between the person who needs to sell and the person with many places to buy.

You went off on a classic class warfare rant.

Yet again you fall victim to the same fate as before..... making assumptions when you have no clue.


Had you actually done your homework and read a few of my back posts you would KNOW that I am an avid watch enthusiast and have personally owned two Rolex watches (Currently have an Explorer) as well as a high dollar Tag Heuer. I am also a fan of high dollar tasteful accessories (read cufflinks, class rings, stud sets, money clips, cigar cutters, humidors, home theater, sports cars) and collect very expensive fountain pens (have owned more than three montblancs, a pelikan, a few watermans and a couple of cross with the least expensive one costing upwards of $120 and the most almost $500), plus I enjoy smoking fine cigars and drink single malt scotch such as Macallen which costs upwards of $40 a bottle at discount prices and others....heck my wallet cost over $100 bucks which is nothing compared to a $700 louis Vuitton tacky POS but still more than many of the tightwads on AT are willing to spend on holding their money....

I enjoy luxury items very much and have absolutely nothing against those who like to endulge, many of those whom I know making upwards of $200K/year are avid watch and auto enthusiasts...some also collect fine pens which is where we have common ground. In fact one of my better friends who is very very intelligent retired at 35 a millionare in silicon valley and now sells Rolex watches among others on ebay as a hobby..

Also if you truly consider Grey goose "fine" vodka then I feel sorry for you. Also I would hardly call what she did any accomplishment, especially with those earning advanced degrees nowadays, now had she done it all without the help of her family then I would be impressed but I am sure if that were the case she wouldn't be bitching

oh boo hoo she works fifty hours a week, heck today I worked from 8:30am and just got out at 2:30 this morning...am I entitled to bitch and moan now as she was? no because I am happy I have a job that I love making the money that I do plain and simple.

while you feel that people like this clown are beholden to no one, I feel that she does owe the blue workers a debt of gratitude, they are the ones who support her pompous arrogant lifestyle.......while the produce can be sourced, the waste removal, housing maintence, taxi services and other things she and you take for granted can not.

Hahaha. You really are jealous of the rich, aren't you? I can't believe you spent so much space detailing just how fancy and luxurious you live. Hahahah.... I doubt it's true but whatever.

Waste removal, housing, taxi... uhm, that would all be stuff for which she paid. How freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society? She obviously is well paid for a reason. And those manual laborers are poorly paid for a reason. How hard is it to be a garbage man? Anyone can do it. How hard is it to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or some such educated professional? The province of the few.

We reward education for a reason.

And I think it is beyond hysterical that you hold her family against her - she would impress you if she was poor and her family didn't help, but because her family actually helped her it means nothing. Hahaha. Great family values there.

And, I'll say it again, at no point was she bitching about her money. She was complaining about the government that takes her taxes and then insults her. Never complained about how hard she worked or how much money she made, only how her taxes were spent.

I think your comment about being too rich said it all. You have such an animosity to "those earning advanced degrees nowadays" it is beyond funny. Education is for losers and people can make too much money, especially if their family help them to become educated. Great values there, you should be proud of them.

F'cking retard.

 

[Taejin]

Not entirely sure on this, but don't garbage men get paid pretty well?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople
Hahaha. You really are jealous of the rich, aren't you? I can't believe you spent so much space detailing just how fancy and luxurious you live. Hahahah.... I doubt it's true but whatever.

Yup that is me, jealous of the rich....if you don't want to believe that what I said above is true then that is fine, so be it...but you can ask more than a few here who have been around a while and I am sure they will attest to the fact that I am not prone to lying...also who wouldn't be envious of the uber rich who do very little and gross large margins off their dividends and investments, however I believe you and I have very different definitions of "rich"

Waste removal, housing, taxi... uhm, that would all be stuff for which she paid. How freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society? She obviously is well paid for a reason. And those manual laborers are poorly paid for a reason. How hard is it to be a garbage man? Anyone can do it. How hard is it to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or some such educated professional? The province of the few.

We reward education for a reason.

Last I checked people in waste removal were paid pretty well for their labors, as well as union employed construction workers and other "menial" (as you would describe them) workers/lumpas. Also the sheer fact that you say "how freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society" shows how ignorant and stupid you are, heck I think I will quote that....sales execs are some of, if not the top grossing individuals in the country...as well as people in real estate and CEOs, the former two generally are comprised of those who are motivated but in MANY cases have less education that you suggest is necessary for a high ticket salary, even CEOs in many cases have at best their MBA, while there are exceptions to the rule generally those who are the most educated are the ones earning on the lower end of the spectrum as they are tenured professors and or school teachers, and lets not forget all those in professional sports and or hollywood, do they fit your mold as well? if so then that is a riot.

And I think it is beyond hysterical that you hold her family against her - she would impress you if she was poor and her family didn't help, but because her family actually helped her it means nothing. Hahaha. Great family values there.

I am saying that it is laughable at best that she is bitching about her current work status and the hours she puts in any given week....I mean is this a joke or does she expect the person working three jobs at 5.25 an hour to really give a rats ass that she has to put in a whole 50 hour work week to support her domicile in one of the most expensive areas in the country. Had she acieved what she did on her own and actually worked for it then I would be impressed, but every step of the way she describes getting a handout, whether it be from a supportive family that many don't have the luxury of having, from federal grants and or student loans which again many don't qualify for, or from living in an area which allows alot of opportunity for advancement in education....this ladys story means nothing to me and the fact that she feels the red owe some debt of gratitude or in some way contribute less to society because of the fact they pay less in taxes is rather laughable, what is sad is that you actually are defending this bafoon and also that someone of such an advance stage of learnin would author such a piece of garbage.

And, I'll say it again, at no point was she bitching about her money. She was complaining about the government that takes her taxes and then insults her. Never complained about how hard she worked or how much money she made, only how her taxes were spent.

She was complaining about how much she contributes to the govt compared to the "red" and also how many hours and how "hard" it was for her to earn it/achieve her status/station in life, combined with the time she puts in....to me complaining about how much you dole out, and how much time it takes you to get it = bitching about money plain and simple.

I think your comment about being too rich said it all. You have such an animosity to "those earning advanced degrees nowadays" it is beyond funny. Education is for losers and people can make too much money, especially if their family help them to become educated. Great values there, you should be proud of them.

F'cking retard.

What comment about being to rich? please enlighten me and quote it at least....I never mentioned anything about the rich, in fact if you could read basic english you would have seen a good deal of my aquaintences are pretty well off....also I think my wife would be surprised if I held disdain for those earning advanced degrees seeing as how she has her masters and I supported her throughout the whole ordeal, are you dense or are you just acting? ..sure I think there are far too many overpaid lawyers in this country with the number growing, just as I feel there are far too many people out there with useless MBAs and other degrees who get them just for the sake of their resume and never put them into practice and I would love to see more people get into the medical, education or something which is truly "useful" to society....I just said that this woman in particular, and those like her are a waste of space making too much money and working too few hours to be complaining plain and simple...it only makes it worse that she tries to belittle the contributions of those in a lower social status than herself....pretty sad.

 

[theblackbox]

you people work too hard, i work 8 hours a day m-f for a software company (in a red state, and repeat...one of the first and oldest pc companies, did i mention the red state) and makreally good money.
you don't have to work hard to make good money, unless you like to do that.

we also own a veterinary clinic, and my wife (also from a red state in a red state) works 3-6 days a week,usually about 8-9 hours a day, more sometimes less others, and i handle all the computer needs when needed.

We usually take our RV out every weekend to camp in another nearby red state, when we are not spending time inour beachhouse in yet another red state, or spending time in the rockies.

I like coming in P&N because i find it humourous how ridiculously serious a bunch of nerds can be, and call each other names and such on a daily basis.

I have friends in New York, specifically a couple, one is a vet, the other a model. The vet left NYC to live in Yorktown Heights because she likes the city but doesn't want to live there, and both are nothing like the person who wrote the open letter. Both of them are caring, compassionate, live life without fear and enjoy coming down to see my wife and i in our backwards ass red state.

You can't compare the north and the south, the are totally different. from what for the people states, them blue staters are smarter. well, i'll give you this, i think blue state people like to go to colleges and universities and stay in them as long as possible to stay out of the real world. They can do this because their parents have the money to fund them with their trust funds and such. Down here, people work. They work in all kinds of industries. They go to universities like Georgia Tech and Rice or TAMU and then think about going back but realize they would prefer to make their own money and live their own lifes, and do it. I am sure there are examples of both lifestyles in both places, but with the high concentration of liberal arts universities in the northeast, it's easy to see the comfort blanket many blue staters hold on to.

When i lived in Texas, we always had a huge influx of New Yorkers moving down to texas, and they would tell us how great NYC was... I always wondered, if it was so great, why did you come here?
Now in Atlanta, I see the same thing, people from all over come to the south. It's a different world and a different life.

Two weeks ago i spent some time with a friend from new york out at the beach, and she was glued to her cell phone almost 50% of the time. My wife and i could only laugh, and realized we're glad we don't have to live a high pressure high stress life.

hell, my biggest concern is if i should go ahead and winterize my RV because it's been cold this week and it appears it will stay near freezing at night.

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople
How freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society?


oh, and you have to be kidding.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
Originally posted by: ForThePeople
How freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society?


oh, and you have to be kidding.

Agreed. ForThePeople is an ignorant, prejudiced bigot. Therefore, the views/opinions expressed by ForThePeople hold no weight whatsoever. This has nothing to do with the political views. A bigot is a bigot, regardless of politcal affiliation.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
you people work too hard

Weren't you the one in another thread going off about how liberals didn't know the value of work and stuff like that? :roll: Which one is it?

Nobody demands that the red-state deadbeats work 80 hours a week. The point is that you can't whine about liberals being non-working hippies and at the same time take more from federal taxes than you give in. Don't forget you red-staters are being subsidized by blue-staters.

 

[KK]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: theblackbox
you people work too hard

Weren't you the one in another thread going off about how liberals didn't know the value of work and stuff like that? :roll: Which one is it?

Nobody demands that the red-state deadbeats work 80 hours a week. The point is that you can't whine about liberals being non-working hippies and at the same time take more from federal taxes than you give in. Don't forget you red-staters are being subsidized by blue-staters.

Well blue states are for wellfare, so whats the problem. :roll:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: theblackbox
Originally posted by: ForThePeople
How freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society?

Agreed. ForThePeople is an ignorant, prejudiced bigot. Therefore, the views/opinions expressed by ForThePeople hold no weight whatsoever. This has nothing to do with the political views. A bigot is a bigot, regardless of politcal affiliation.

Hmmm, guess 50.9% of the Country are bigots but doesn't matter they rule the Country and fill the Churches so all is good.

 

[Acanthus]

It doesnt matter, Kerry lost.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: theblackbox
Originally posted by: ForThePeople
How freaking hard is it to realize that your salary reflects your importance to society?

Agreed. ForThePeople is an ignorant, prejudiced bigot. Therefore, the views/opinions expressed by ForThePeople hold no weight whatsoever. This has nothing to do with the political views. A bigot is a bigot, regardless of politcal affiliation.

Hmmm, guess 50.9% of the Country are bigots but doesn't matter they rule the Country and fill the Churches so all is good.

You said it, not me. I was talking about one person on this board. What's with the sweeping generalizations?

 

[SofaKing]

Originally posted by: ForThePeople

Originally posted by: daveymark

Um, no, we watch something else. this is a blue state issue. Look at the neilsen ratings. they place the boxes in the blue cities. No, they don't. They ran a statistical sampling service and no one who does that would skewer their results like that.

You simply made that up.

Here is the actual Nielsen method:

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/whatratingsmean/

Boxes around the country. Their largest 50 markets are available at http://www.nielsenmedia.com/metered_markets.html and include such heartland areas as:

Louiseville, Knoxville, Dayton, Tulsa, etc.

You simply made that up. A little thought would have easily led you to the answer that they monitor the whole country - why would a business deliberately neglect half of their market? Why would other businesses pay for data that neglected half their market?

Here are the top 10 national programs. http://www.nielsenmedia.com/ra...roadcast_programs.html

Um, no. The blue cities actually lead the country in divorce rates. I will support my numbers with facts once you support your numbers with facts.

Simply not true, you got it wrong.

A quick google gives: http://www.divorcereform.org/94staterates.html

Top 10 or so for lowest divorce:

1 Massachusetts 14,530 2.4
2 Connecticut 9,095 2.8
3 New Jersey 23,899 3.0
4 Rhode Island 3,231 3.2
5 New York 59,195 3.3
Pennsylvania 40,040 3.3
7 Wisconsin 17,478 3.4
North Dakota 2,201 3.4
9 Maryland 17,439 3.5
10 Minnesota 16,217 3.6

Top 10 or so for highest rate:

42 Florida 82,963 5.9
43 New Mexico 9,882 6.0
44 Idaho 7,075 6.2
Alabama 26,116 6.2
46 Indiana *** 6.4
47 Wyoming 3,071 6.5
48 Tennessee 34,167 6.6
49 Oklahoma 21,855 6.7
50 Arkansas 17,458 7.1
51 Nevada 13,061 9.0

Um, no. Reagan was the reason we had the economic boom, and Bush will be the reason we will continue to have an economic boom.

Hahha. The Bush economic boom? I have news for you - Bush's policies are going to usher in one of our worst economic times. But that is beside the point.

Since I've done all of the other research I'll leave you to post facts that back up your assertion (or, as it is better described, "belief.") But I assure you that the facts are on my side in this case too.

Oh, and like the other red staters you need to work on your reading comprehension - these 3 points are the things that you selected as the most worth highlighting? God help us I hope they aren't all as stupid as you.

You might want to give Clinton some credit for that striving economy too.

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: theblackbox
you people work too hard

Weren't you the one in another thread going off about how liberals didn't know the value of work and stuff like that? :roll: Which one is it?

Nobody demands that the red-state deadbeats work 80 hours a week. The point is that you can't whine about liberals being non-working hippies and at the same time take more from federal taxes than you give in. Don't forget you red-staters are being subsidized by blue-staters.

i hate to tell you i am not subsidized by anyone, i pay more in taxes then a good number of people, so don't make any generalizations about me because of where i live. you don't know me, and i don't know you, and i am thankful for that.

i am talking about the whole i work 80 hours a week, so i'm better argument stated earlier. Ihave no sympathy for other peoples choices. Maybe someday when you are working for a living, you'll understand.

Everybody talks about divorce and all, how about welfare? How do the states pan out...

93-2000 welfare by state
Even though the numbers declined over the years, still you have to wonder...

Of 5.7 million welfare caseloads reported in the US in 2000:

california almost 1.3 million (would be higher but california quit counting 2 parent families) Almost 1/5th of the whole nations welfare? Who paid for that I wonder?
New York? Almost 700,000, but i'll give New York credit, look at their improvement from 1993 on. Still, thats a lotta welfare for such a wealthy enlightened state.

Looks like where there is population, there is poverty. Says something for the blue cities that constantly complain.

So who subsidizes who? We have one federal government that provids money last time i checked, and last time i looked, the red states have just as many pockets of wealth.

Info, when you have to pay taxes, maybe you'll have more ground to stand on telling me i'm subsidized.

 

[40Hands]

So are liberals tree hugging hippies or rich elitists?


BTW: ForThePeople wins this debate. Nice job man.