An Enthusiast Review of CoolClouds' Revolutionary CPU Cooler Prototype

[TheHobbyist]

Introduction

Hello everyone, and thank you for stopping by! Recently, I had a very unique and exciting opportunity present itself. Today, I would like to share the details of the experience with my fellow enthusiasts!

Living in northern California comes with many perks (like amazing weather), but one of my favorites is that many tech companies call it home! As a result, I've had the privilege of visiting the offices of some amazing tech companies like Intel, AMD, Nvidia, ASUS, Antec, etc. In addition to the large and established tech companies, many hungry tech start ups can be found here as well.

By chance, I noticed that a tech start up by the name of CoolClouds was looking for a computer hardware enthusiast in the northern California area. They had developed an early prototype of a CPU cooler that incorporated the technology and techniques they had been using in their business cooling products. CoolClouds explained that their typical business involved designing custom cooling solutions for companies for electronics such as servers, telecommunication devices, and military equipment applications. They were not very familiar with the aftermarket CPU cooling environment and were looking for feedback.

Fast forward a short while and I found myself with an early CoolClouds CPU Cooler Prototype in my hands, hot off the production line! CoolClouds was generous enough to give me hands-on experience with their prototype and allow me to run a slew of enthusiast inspired tests on it. Below, you will find the results!

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System Setup



Test Bed:

• Motherboard: ASUS Maximus VI Impact
• CPU: Intel Core i7 4770k
• Memory: 8 GB (2x4GB) Samsung DDR3 1600 "Magic Ram"
• Video: Integrated
• Hard Drive: Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD
• OS: Windows 8.1 64 Bit
• Thermal Paste: Noctua NT-H1

Test Methods

• CPU: CPU temperature will be monitored in windows using AIDA64 Extreme Version 4.30.2900
• GPU: The integrated GPU in the Intel i7 4770k will be used, eliminating the heat of the discrete GPU as a variable.
• CASE: The case used for this first round of testing is the Antec VSK-4000E Mid Tower Case
• Thermal Paste: Noctua's NT-H1 thermal paste was used for a few key reasons: It's well known in the community for its performance and for not having an observable curing time, and I had a large syringe of it already =)
• Temperatures:
  • Ambient: Ambient temperature will be measured throughout the test using an Exergen Infrared Thermometer. If there is any change in ambient temperature greater than .5C during the course of the test, the test will be restarted.
  • Idle: Idle temperature will be recorded after a 25 minute period of inactivity.
  • Load: Load temperature will be recorded following a 20 minute period of 100% load for air coolers and after a 30 minute period of 100% load for air/water hybrid coolers. The load will be obtained by running the AIDA64 Extreme Version 4.30.2900 System Stability Test. The values reported will represent the average temperature during the load testing period.
• Sound: Sound levels will be measured with a Sinometer JTS-1357 Digital Sound Level Meter. A measurement will be taken at a distance of 1ft, .5m, 1m, and 4 ft. In each instance, the ambient sound level of the room will be recorded.

CoolClouds CPU Cooler Prototype

The CoolClouds CPU Cooler Prototype has a lot of familiar features to other coolers I have worked with in the past, at first glance. However, after taking it all in, it is clear that it is definitely something new, and something cool. On the one hand, I can see that it has a copper plate for contact with the CPU and I can see that the entire unit is designed to mount directly to the motherboard. But on the other hand, I see a 120mm radiator and what looks to be to be none-other than a water pump like the ones I have used in custom water cooling loops! Missing, however, are the tubes typically involved in a hybrid cooler setup. Also, the all-copper nature of the cooler is simply something to behold.

In addition to having full access to the prototype, the CoolClouds crew also made themselves available for any of my questions or other needs. They quickly brought me up to speed on the CoolClouds technology set that includes custom-designed and optimized micro-channel cold plates, powerful, miniaturized water pumps, and fine-tuned all copper radiators. With this technology set, CoolClouds has been morphing into some of the most challenging design spaces and has shown time and time again that they can provide greater cooling performance than any other current solution on the market.

In speaking with the CoolClouds team, it is clear that they are very confident in their designs and their technology. I think it was very bold of them to reach out directly to the enthusiasts and to allow one of them to pit their first prototype against the competition. Lets find out if their confidence and enthusiasm are backed up by performance, shall we? =)
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Please Excuse My Rusty Photoshop Skills =)
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Specifications

• Cooler Dimensions: 165 mm x 120 mm x 16 mm
• Weight: 900g
• Fin Material: Copper
• Cold Plate Material: Copper
• Compatibility: All Modern CPU Sockets
• Fan: Nidec-Servo Gentle Typhoon (x2)
  • Size: 120 mm x 25 mm
  • Speed: 800-1850 rpm
  • Air Flow: 58 CFM
  • Noise: 26 dB

Having designed and built computers for over 15 years, I have seen a lot of CPU coolers and their specs. What stands out to me looking at these specs is that the radiator itself is only 16mm thick. I am interested to see how this factors into performance. Additionally, I am very excited to see both copper cold plate and copper radiator! Most, if not all, of the AIO hybrid coolers out on the market use aluminum radiators. This has the effect of reducing thermal performance. Also, since the system has a mix of copper and aluminum, they are forced to use fluids other than pure, distilled water. This also has the effect of reducing thermal performance. It will be interesting to see if the all-copper construction can counter-balance the reduced thickness of the radiator.
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Photos:

Here are some shots of the front, back, and base of the prototype:​

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Installation and Contact:

Being a prototype, no installation manual was provided. I've installed quite a fair number of heatsinks, but honestly, the installation of the prototype was extremely straightforward and did not require much mechanical ability. First, I placed the provided backplate on the rear of the motherboard, lining it up with the socket holes. Second, I hand-tightened 4 standoffs into the backplate from the other side of the motherboard. Third, I placed the appropriate amount of thermal paste on the center of the processor heatspreader. Fourth, I placed the prototype (without fans installed) on the processor. Fifth, I installed the provided screw/spring assemblies through the four bracket holes and into the previously installed standoffs. There were absolutely no obstructions or tight spots preventing me from easily tightening the screws. As always, I took my time tightening the 4 screws moving in an "X" pattern to ensure even pressure across the CPU. I then attached the two Gentle Typhoon fans and connected the pump and the 2 fans to the appropriate motherboard headers.
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After the performance testing was complete, I removed the prototype and verified that I had solid contact between the cooler and the processor. As you can see in the image, good contact was present.


With all of that out of the way, lets take a look at how it performed!
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Performance Results:



Results: Temperatures

For stock testing, my Intel Core i7 4770k will be set at 3.50 GHz and 1.05 volts. For overclocked CPU testing, my CPU will be set at 4.4 GHz and 1.20 volts.

Please note that the performance chart represents degrees Celsius over the ambient temperature at the time of testing. The temperatures listed DO NOT represent direct core temperatures.
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Overclock Settings

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With the Intel Core i7 4770k set at 4.4 GHz and 1.20 volts, we present a worthy challenge to the established kings of the CPU cooling realm as well as to the new challenger. Claiming the top performance spot with a 1 degree Celsius lead is the CoolClouds Prototype equipped with the two fans from the Corsair H80i cooler! To me, this is fairly remarkable; the CoolClouds Prototype radiator is only 16mm thick vs the Corsair H80i radiator which is a very stout 38mm thick. In an apples to apples performance shootout with the same testbed and and same fan configuration, the CoolClouds Prototype is able to best the Corsair H80i with less than half the radiator thickness! I found this a little hard to believe, so I ran the test 3 times on both coolers to verify the results.

Coming in second and third place in thermal performance in the overclocked testing were the Corsair H80i and the Noctua NH-D14 respectively. I was fairly impressed with the Noctua NH-D14 air cooler's ability to compete with the Corsair H80i All In One water cooler. The Noctua NH-D14 is significantly larger though. One important note that I will make is that the Noctua NH-D14 is able to provide it's 3rd place cooling performance at a much quieter level than the Corsair H80i as you will see in the coming sound performance evaluation.

Being a long time enthusiast and custom loop water cooler, I wanted to see how the CoolClouds Prototype performed with the long-running champion of performance/noise radiator cooling fans (The Gentle Typhoon AP-15). If you have never had the privilege of using a Gentle Typhoon, they provide an astounding amount of cooling performance on radiators, but at a noise level that is much less than the competition. Looking at the chart, we can see that the CoolClouds Prototype equipped with a pair of GT AP-15, with its diminutive 16mm radiator, performed within 2 degrees Celsius of the Corsair H80i and the Noctua NH-D14.

The Noctua NH-D14 represents best in class performance in the air cooler category according to many enthusiasts and performance reviews alike. Likewise, the Corsair H80i represents best in class performance in the 120mm AIO cooler category. In spite of this, The CoolClouds Prototype came out swinging and demonstrated that even in such an early stage of development, it was ready to take on all challengers and bring new levels of performance and a new CPU cooler form factor to the enthusiast cooler market.
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Results: Sound

Please note that the sound performance chart represents measurements from 4ft, 1m, .5m, and 1ft. All measurements were taken with the case door removed and with the decibel meter aimed directly at the CPU cooler being measured.
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As I alluded to earlier in the performance testing commentary, the Corsair H80i is much louder than the Noctua NH-D14 with the fans at 12v. The measurements verify this claim as can been seen in the chart.

Subjectively, I found both the Noctua NH-D14 and the CoolClouds Prototype equipped with the Gentle Typhoons to provide a very similar acoustic profile with the sound of the air flowing through the coolers barely perceivable. On the other hand, I found the acoustic profile of the Corsair H80i to be quite loud and disruptive. It definitely made a lot of noise. In the case of the Corsair H80i, it's performance comes at the cost of a quiet computing experience.
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[TheHobbyist]

Conclusion



The Bottom Line

First of all, I would like to thank the fine folks at CoolClouds for the opportunity to work hands-on with their first prototype and for their open-door policy regarding any questions or comments that I had throughout the experience. It is clear that they are very busy, but that they take the quality of their product and their customer's experience as the highest priority.

Early on, I had concerns that the 16mm radiator would prove too thin to provide adequate performance. As it turned out, The 16mm all-copper radiator of the CoolClouds prototype proved superior to the 38mm aluminum radiator of the Corsair H80i. As a matter of fact, the slim 16mm CoolClouds Radiator was able to provide superior performance over the gargantuan 100mm thickness of fin tower used by the Noctua NH-D14! How embarrassing!

I would also like to take a moment to talk about the form factor. In the testbed, I utilized the small but mighty ASUS ROG Maximus VI Impact. The Impact is an mITX board. In the case of the Noctua NH-D14, the cooler literally consumed the entire motherboard! I will provide images, but they simply don't do the situation justice. I appreciate the fact that the Noctua NH-D14 mounts directly to the motherboard and does not require the sacrifice of a case fan, but the cooler is just insanely massive! In the case of the Corsair H80i, the installed size was more manageable, but I was forced to sacrifice the rear exhaust of my case. This is a problem for me. In most of the systems I have built in recent years, the discrete graphics cards are by far the greatest producers of heat. For this reason, it is paramount to me that the case airflow is able to function as it was designed to aid in cooling passive motherboard components and removing the excess heat generated by the GPU(s). In the case of the CoolClouds Prototype, it mounted directly to the motherboard and installation was done! I was also able to maintain the use of my case exhaust AND I had plenty of room to work with, no special tools required.

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The CoolClouds CPU Cooler Prototype, for me, was like glancing into the future of electronics cooling. It made a very big impression on me. When I look at air coolers, I see a cooling technology that has reached the limits of its performance. When I look at AIO coolers, I see case airflow design thrown out the window, and I see GPU's and CPU's fighting over case exhaust and inlet locations. When I look at the CoolClouds prototype, I see a smaller cooler with better performance! I see a cooler without compatibility issues that allows anyone to do a drop-in-replacement and explore the boundaries of their CPU's performance without thermal limitations. I see a cooling technology that can let Intel and AMD know that they can go ahead and raise the TDP (Thermal Design Power) of their desktop processors, because a new standard of cooling is in place to handle it. I look forward to seeing CoolClouds consumer products, and I think you probably would too!
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The Future

During my time working with the CoolClouds team and the prototype, there was a constant line of communication. They had a lot of questions about the heat problems computer enthusiasts run into and the pro's and con's of the different solutions out there. To me, it seems that the team could never be happier than to be presented with a challenging heat problem that they can devour and design and engineer a powerful solution to. We had a lot of discussions and I gave a lot of feedback. They asked what I wanted to see, and this is what I told them:

• Cooler
• Quieter
• Compatible

I told them that it was great that they could perform a few degrees cooler than the competition with less than half the radiator size, but that I'd love to see what they could do with a thicker radiator! I told them that having the best thermal performance is fantastic, but that it's even better when you can do it quietly! I told them that the last thing I want to do when I buy a cooler is to worry that it won't be compatible with my case, or that I won't be able to use memory with tall heat spreaders, or that it will block my PCIe slot!

You can find out more about CoolClouds @ http://www.coolclouds.net/
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DISCUSSION:

What do you think? Got any questions for me or the CoolClouds team? Let me know! Is there anything else you would like to see for the enthusiast prototype testing? If it's something I can do, I'll give it a go as time allows!

Thanks! Hope you enjoyed!
TheHobbyist
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[TheHobbyist]

Perhaps I posted this in the wrong section? I don't usually post in this forum so perhaps someone could point me in the right direction? It seemed like this would be interesting for my fellow computer hardware enthusiasts

 

[Micrornd]

My 2cents

Flawed concept - 1500g for only a tiny gain over the Noctua
Of course it could be lightened by going to aluminum construction, but then it would be back to less efficient than the Noctua.

It's product that sounds good in theory, but isn't in reality.

Even the Noctua and all other air coolers in it's class are too heavy and put way too much stress on the sockets and boards when in a tower or pedestal case.
The backplates help, but that's still an enormous amount of weight levering itself from the MB when the HS is in a horizontal position.

The only air coolers that ever got it right (for unlimited size and weight) were the Xeon 771 coolers that attached to the MB tray rather than the pc board.


Did you test with the side cover on or off, it makes a big difference, especially when comparing the performance to the AIO to air coolers ??

Please note that the performance chart represents degrees Celsius over the ambient temperature at the time of testing. The temperatures listed DO NOT represent direct core temperatures.

Since you say you weren't measuring core temp, but temp above ambient and you were seeing 45c, just where/how were you measuring temps ??

Crap, my dual 12 cores never exceed 52c (on the highest temp core) fully loaded after 8 hrs in a room maintained at 26.6c ambient.
That's less than 27c above ambient on AIO coolers.
And that's with either Passware or Aida loading the cores.

As to "When I look at AIO coolers, I see case airflow design thrown out the window, and I see GPU's and CPU's fighting over case exhaust and inlet locations".
No disrespect intended, but then you are either doing it wrong or picking a case for looks rather than function.

And truthfully, a link might have been a better way to present this, as it kinda reads as an ad. :$
Just my opinion, I'm sure there will be others along soon enough.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Looks like they took a regular watercooling setup and got rid of the hoses, just bolted the radiator on top.

I don't see a separate pipe going from the top back down, are they looping it back with the small vertical elements?

 

[DigDog]

ill wait until :

1) it has gone into production

2) someone from AT who has more than 3 posts (an "enthusiast") reviews one, and

3) it gets a positive review from said individual

 

[dma0991]

You have two Corsair H80i fans used on the CoolClouds. Then why was the Corsair H80i benchmarked with only one?

 

[TheHobbyist]

My 2cents
Flawed concept - 1500g for only a tiny gain over the Noctua
Of course it could be lightened by going to aluminum construction, but then it would be back to less efficient than the Noctua.

I agree that 1500g is a lot =) In practice, I have it installed for a long while and I didn't notice any problems. With any large/heavy cooler motherboard mounted, I would definitely not move the computer around or ship it without removing it!

Regarding the 1500g, this is a hand made prototype so the weight is much greater than it needs to be. The manufacturing processes and materials used are not what is used in a production unit. There is a lot of weight to cut without losing the awesome copper.

It's product that sounds good in theory, but isn't in reality.

Even the Noctua and all other air coolers in it's class are too heavy and put way too much stress on the sockets and boards when in a tower or pedestal case.
The backplates help, but that's still an enormous amount of weight levering itself from the MB when the HS is in a horizontal position.

The only air coolers that ever got it right (for unlimited size and weight) were the Xeon 771 coolers that attached to the MB tray rather than the pc board.

I have the same concerns about the weights of coolers. Really though, if the computer is stationary, it is engineered to not be an issue.

Did you test with the side cover on or off, it makes a big difference, especially when comparing the performance to the AIO to air coolers ??

I tested with the side cover off and without any case fans running. Originally, I wanted to test with the case side on, but the noctua was too tall and I wanted a level playing field.

What you would expect to see is worse performance for the AIO coolers with the side covers on correct? I covered that a bit in my conclusion.

Since you say you weren't measuring core temp, but temp above ambient and you were seeing 45c, just where/how were you measuring temps ??

Crap, my dual 12 cores never exceed 52c (on the highest temp core) fully loaded after 8 hrs in a room maintained at 26.6c ambient.
That's less than 27c above ambient on AIO coolers.
And that's with either Passware or Aida loading the cores.

I was measuring core temp. I must have just confused you with poor wording. What I did is I measured core temps and the ambient temp at the time of the test. The charted data represents (core temp - ambient temp at time of test).

For the sake of stressing the coolers, I had my i7 4770k at 4.4 GHz and 1.2volts which makes it VERY hot. So hot, in fact, that most coolers would not be able to keep up and the processor would throttle or crash.

As to "When I look at AIO coolers, I see case airflow design thrown out the window, and I see GPU's and CPU's fighting over case exhaust and inlet locations".
No disrespect intended, but then you are either doing it wrong or picking a case for looks rather than function.

For a long time, the standard case had 2 intake fans in the front and one exhaust in the back. I know that there are a lot of cases out now that can better accommodate AIO coolers, but they aren't the standard. Also, think of people who are not chosing their case? Perhaps they are upgrading an older system, or reusing parts, or perhaps they have a Dell hehehe! This cooler can just drop in. I was also thinking of an ASUS display I recently saw with a (120)(2) AIO installed for the CPU and it had 2 AMD R9 290x2's in it with those AIO 120 rads it comes with. It wasn't a good situation =)

And truthfully, a link might have been a better way to present this, as it kinda reads as an ad. :$
Just my opinion, I'm sure there will be others along soon enough.

Well, I won't lie, I am a fan of the cooler, so I do speak well of it =) I'm just a regular guy with a full time job who got the opportunity to check out some pre-release hardware. I imagine if Oculus or ASUS or Apple let you test out some of their prototype gear, you would be all smiles as well and would share your experience if it wasn't under NDA or something =)

Thanks for the feedback either way and I look forward to hearing your responses!

Cheers!

 

[TheHobbyist]

Looks like they took a regular watercooling setup and got rid of the hoses, just bolted the radiator on top.

I don't see a separate pipe going from the top back down, are they looping it back with the small vertical elements?

Hey there Flapdrol1337!

You've got it down pretty much! It's like an AIO with no tubes and no separate pieces. The difference being that it performs better than the H80i with less than half the radiator thickness

All of the water flow direction takes place inside the radiator through the tubes and the tank at the top!

Thanks for your comments, let me know if you have any other questions!

 

[TheHobbyist]

ill wait until :

1) it has gone into production

2) someone from AT who has more than 3 posts (an "enthusiast") reviews one, and

3) it gets a positive review from said individual

Hey there DigDog!

1) Fair enough, but since I had this opportunity to test out the prototype, I thought I'd share the information.

2) Sorry I don't have more posts here to meet your expectations! :$ I've been designing and building computers for over 15 years as a hobby, so i have earned my "enthusiast title" in my mind. :biggrin: However, I also work a lot of hours and don't have a lot of free time. I mostly lurk on these forums. If you'd like to see more of my street cred, maybe check out my activity on hardforum or a few of the other communities I have taken a more active roll in, but that's all up to you I can tell you that whomever it is that sets up the test in the same way that I have will get the same results. Would you like to see the prototype tested in a different way?

3) Is there an enthusiast you trust that lives in San Jose, CA? I'm sure the team at CoolClouds wouldn't mind letting another enthusiast borrow the cooler. Or your guy could just meet up with me and we can run some tests for fun!

Thanks for your input!

Cheers!

 

[sandorski]

That's almost 4lbs hanging on the PCB. No thanks. It's dumping the heat inside the case and taking up space as well. The various AIO radiator setups available today make much more sense.

 

[TheHobbyist]

You have two Corsair H80i fans used on the CoolClouds. Then why was the Corsair H80i benchmarked with only one?

Hey there dma0991!

I did use the two fans from the Corsair H80i on the CoolClouds prototype for one of the tests, you are correct! However, I also used both of the fans on the Corsair H80i when I tested it as well!

That wouldn't be very fair or informative if I only used one of the 2 included fans

Was there something I said or showed that inferred I only used 1 fan? maybe I made a typo somewhere.

Thanks for reading my amateur cooler review!

Cheers!

 

[Micrornd]

I agree that 1500g is a lot =) In practice, I have it installed for a long while and I didn't notice any problems. With any large/heavy cooler motherboard mounted, I would definitely not move the computer around or ship it without removing it!

Regarding the 1500g, this is a hand made prototype so the weight is much greater than it needs to be. The manufacturing processes and materials used are not what is used in a production unit. There is a lot of weight to cut without losing the awesome copper.

So then your tests are useless, as a production unit will have a different delta.

I have the same concerns about the weights of coolers. Really though, if the computer is stationary, it is engineered to not be an issue.

Any weight canterlevered off a MB for a long term is always a concern, stationary or not, as the MB can and will bend.
Multilayer boards do not like bending period.

I tested with the side cover off and without any case fans running. Originally, I wanted to test with the case side on, but the noctua was too tall and I wanted a level playing field.

What you would expect to see is worse performance for the AIO coolers with the side covers on correct? I covered that a bit in my conclusion.

No, I would expect the AIO to perform better with the side cover on.
Plus the tests are skewed for the other coolers with the side cover off as the airflow is not "real world".
Do these coolers deflect enough of their airflow to help cool the VRMs ?
It certainly matters, as stock coolers do that, and good aftermarket ones do also, as VRM temps matter.
If not then VRM cooling must be compensated for, so how the coolers perform in real world situations matters a whole heck of a lot more than on a test bench or in a case with no side cover.

I was measuring core temp. I must have just confused you with poor wording. What I did is I measured core temps and the ambient temp at the time of the test. The charted data represents (core temp - ambient temp at time of test).

For the sake of stressing the coolers, I had my i7 4770k at 4.4 GHz and 1.2volts which makes it VERY hot. So hot, in fact, that most coolers would not be able to keep up and the processor would throttle or crash.

Yes, I see now, but why choose such a confusing method of testing?
Simply give core temp and ambient temp and test for a reasonable length of time (not 20-30 min, but several hours)
So those temps were 45c above ambient after 30 min and you think that is good ??
Hardly.
As I said, after 8 hrs of 100% load my dual 12 cores (with 2-7970s also in the case) were less than 27c above ambient with AIOs and they were at 116w while your 4770K was probably @ 75-80w.

And why compare to an H80i to start with?
It is used for that CPU @ stock speeds, the H100 version is recommended for overclocking use with that CPU.
At least compare to what the established norm is.

For a long time, the standard case had 2 intake fans in the front and one exhaust in the back. I know that there are a lot of cases out now that can better accommodate AIO coolers, but they aren't the standard. Also, think of people who are not chosing their case? Perhaps they are upgrading an older system, or reusing parts, or perhaps they have a Dell hehehe! This cooler can just drop in. I was also thinking of an ASUS display I recently saw with a (120)(2) AIO installed for the CPU and it had 2 AMD R9 290x2's in it with those AIO 120 rads it comes with. It wasn't a good situation =)

That cooler has as little chance as the Noctua of fitting in a standard Dell case, slim to none.
That cooler is not aimed at the upgrade/reuse market but the enthusiast/overclocking market as pointed out by CoolClouds on their website.

Well, I won't lie, I am a fan of the cooler, so I do speak well of it =) I'm just a regular guy with a full time job who got the opportunity to check out some pre-release hardware. I imagine if Oculus or ASUS or Apple let you test out some of their prototype gear, you would be all smiles as well and would share your experience if it wasn't under NDA or something =)

Thanks for the feedback either way and I look forward to hearing your responses!

Cheers!

I'm sorry, but promoting product based solely on a single handmade prototype unit is not legitimate testing in my mind, and I'm guessing in most others also.
Testing of a production unit would be.
And yes, I do and have done hardware testing, but only pre-production/engineering samples, never prototypes/handbuilts.
That's just not worthwhile except for working out problems, bugs and manufacturing obstacles, not for public disclosures of performance.

I read the comments @ [H], were there any other forums you posted this at?

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Hey there Flapdrol1337!

You've got it down pretty much! It's like an AIO with no tubes and no separate pieces. The difference being that it performs better than the H80i with less than half the radiator thickness

All of the water flow direction takes place inside the radiator through the tubes and the tank at the top!

Thanks for your comments, let me know if you have any other questions!

looping it back and forth through those small elements seems, euhm, suboptimal

And well, copper has almost twice the thermal conductivity of aluminium, so no suprise it's more compact, also almost 3 times the weight, so no surprise there either, although being more compact could mean less water, so that's some weight saving.

It'd be nice to see a version with the radiator mounted parallel to the cpu, like the scythe big shuriken. This could lower the CG of the cooler a lot, so there's less stress on the motherboard.

 

[DigDog]

you know, i dont think the idea is bad; you take a AIO and make it smaller. i'm sure someone will look at this and go: "OMFG this is what i have been looking for all my life!!".

however i do have a few issues with the way this is presented.

first, the same thread happening on every forum on the web.

sorry if i appear a little jaded, but more than an enthusiast you sound like a marketer, and we've seen sooo many of them here who thought promotion can beat results.

you could just have posted on your long-time [H] account and people would have linked to it.


The critique that the cooler is too large for a cpu mount is reasonable; i'm sure it will get worked on.
The results themselves are good, but as with (1), we really need to wait until someone who is - without any offense - respectable publishes something similar, be it Anand, one of our guys here, Toms, [H], etc, essentially anyone except the guy who out of the blue signs up to AT just to post something which is too similar to a brochure for us to take it at face value.

Ofc we love speculation so we will try to "help" you with our questions and ideas.. to no end.

etc. (redacted)

 

[TheHobbyist]

looping it back and forth through those small elements seems, euhm, suboptimal

And well, copper has almost twice the thermal conductivity of aluminium, so no suprise it's more compact, also almost 3 times the weight, so no surprise there either, although being more compact could mean less water, so that's some weight saving.

It'd be nice to see a version with the radiator mounted parallel to the cpu, like the scythe big shuriken. This could lower the CG of the cooler a lot, so there's less stress on the motherboard.

Hey hey Flapdrol1337!

Honestly, I'm not an engineer and I don't design heatsinks, so I'm not sure how they are getting it done exactly. It does seem to be working though =)

I'm mostly into compact and slim computers, so I would definitely prefer a version like the big shuriken! :biggrin: I'm pretty sure that is the next logical model for them if this model gains enough traction.

Cheers!

 

[TheHobbyist]

That's almost 4lbs hanging on the PCB. No thanks. It's dumping the heat inside the case and taking up space as well. The various AIO radiator setups available today make much more sense.

It's just my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but it makes more sense for me to leave the case airflow intact and working as intended (I.E. typically 2 intake fans in front and an unimpeded exhaust fan in the back). In the systems I build, the CPU is hardly putting out much heat, especially compared to the GPU's. Strong case airflow helps get the GPU heat out of the case and also cools the other computer components like chipset/audio/hard drive/VRM/etc.

Any heat that is "dumped inside" by the CPU is going to be quickly removed by the exhaust fan that is directly next to it. This is how the computer case was designed after all.

Cheers!

 

[TheHobbyist]

you know, i dont think the idea is bad; you take a AIO and make it smaller. i'm sure someone will look at this and go: "OMFG this is what i have been looking for all my life!!".

however i do have a few issues with the way this is presented.

first, the same thread happening on every forum on the web.

sorry if i appear a little jaded, but more than an enthusiast you sound like a marketer, and we've seen sooo many of them here who thought promotion can beat results.

you could just have posted on your long-time [H] account and people would have linked to it.


The critique that the cooler is too large for a cpu mount is reasonable; i'm sure it will get worked on.
The results themselves are good, but as with (1), we really need to wait until someone who is - without any offense - respectable publishes something similar, be it Anand, one of our guys here, Toms, [H], etc, essentially anyone except the guy who out of the blue signs up to AT just to post something which is too similar to a brochure for us to take it at face value.

Ofc we love speculation so we will try to "help" you with our questions and ideas.. to no end.

etc. (redacted)

Again, fair enough DigDog! My dad (and sylvester stalone) always taught me DTA (Don't Trust Anyone). I think it's good to be skeptical, so more power to you! :biggrin:

"The same thread happening on every forum on the web"
- I posted it to the 4 forums that I read regularly as an enthusiast. I typically lurk on the other forums and post on hardocp rarely. I just felt like sharing with the same communities that I read frequently.

"marketeer... promotion beats results..."
- I agree with you. I think you will find that the benchmarking I did is fair and in line with the testing practices used on hardware review sites. I modeled my test after the 4 sites I read regularly, but with a lean toward hardocp which I am more active in. The data in my review is just that, data. Like I said, I would do the test in a different way if it would be interesting to you :biggrin:

"posted on my [H] account and people could have linked to it"
- Just a note, but my anandtech account that I posted this review from was registered in Dec 2011. I had an older account, but with as busy as life got and me not posting regularly, I had forgotten the login info and had to re-register. The same holds true for my other community forum accounts as well. I wish I had my original accounts from 15 years ago, imagine how big my e-peen would be ^_^ (actually, now that I think about it, I was just a teen when I registered those and they probably have a silly name regarding Dragonball Z or something lol!)
- Reading multiple hardware enthusiast community forums over the years, I have seen plenty of cases where you can link to other hardware reviews, but not to other hardware forum posts. This trend comes and goes. Also, people seem to prefer their respective forums, and in turn, I respect that. It wasn't much more work for me to post the whole review in the OP than to post a link to it. My bad, I guess I just thought it would make it easier.

"proper reviewer...signs up at anand to post..."
- I get it. But again, I didn't sign up here to post this. If we insist on going by registration dates, you have been here 5 months longer than I have. I didn't come here to promote a product. I got hands on time with a prototype cooler that is something new and something interesting. I shared my experiences with my fellow enthusiasts. I do like it and I am excited about it, sorry? I didn't even link to the IndieGoGo that's being run.
- I don't think anandtech or hardocp or techpowerup, etc, are going to be reviewing pre-production prototype coolers. I'm sure they will see a production unit for review. I just got my hands on it and I shared my experience. I'm not forcing you to do anything or buy anything or think anything. Here is my review and my opinion of a new piece of tech. Sorry?

As a long time reader, the community here is great. I just came to share some objective data and my subjective opinions on something new and cool that I had the opportunity to play with. I guess I expected the experience to be more enjoyable for those reading.

Cheers!

 

[TheHobbyist]

So then your tests are useless, as a production unit will have a different delta.

My tests are not useless. I think you misunderstand the meaning and purpose of this review. I was able to play with a prototype of a cooler that is different and new. I posted here to share that experience. This is not a review of the production unit. This is my experience with a prototype. Have you seen the reviews of the Oculus Rift Development units? Those are not production units. Those reviews are interesting to read :biggrin:

No, I would expect the AIO to perform better with the side cover on.
Plus the tests are skewed for the other coolers with the side cover off as the airflow is not "real world".

I would encourage you to do your own investigations on the impacts. In my own investigations, the AIO performs worse with the side cover on. Also, my own investigations have shown that having the side of the case on has a very small impact on my systems. Most importantly, all 3 coolers were tested in the exact same method, so the testing is fair. That's scientific method. I do encourage you to check it out for yourself, but you have inspired me to write up an experiment that answers these questions you have. Perhaps I will have time to do it in the next few weeks.

Yes, I see now, but why choose such a confusing method of testing?
Simply give core temp and ambient temp and test for a reasonable length of time (not 20-30 min, but several hours)
So those temps were 45c above ambient after 30 min and you think that is good ??
Hardly.
As I said, after 8 hrs of 100% load my dual 12 cores (with 2-7970s also in the case) were less than 27c above ambient with AIOs and they were at 116w while your 4770K was probably @ 75-80w.

My "confusing method of testing" is basically a straight copy of how the hardware review sites test coolers. The method seems to be satisfactory for professional sites and community members alike.

I think your confusion comes from a lack of experience working with an Intel i74770k processor. With the i7 4770k at 4.4GHz and 1.20volts, it is more in the territory of 220-280W. For this reason, it is a good method of stressing a cooling system.

And why compare to an H80i to start with?
It is used for that CPU @ stock speeds, the H100 version is recommended for overclocking use with that CPU.
At least compare to what the established norm is.

The CoolClouds prototype uses a 120mm radiator. For this reason, it is appropriate to compare it to the best 120mm AIO cooler (Based on community feedback).

That cooler has as little chance as the Noctua of fitting in a standard Dell case, slim to none.
That cooler is not aimed at the upgrade/reuse market but the enthusiast/overclocking market as pointed out by CoolClouds on their website.

The CoolClouds cooler has greater compatibility than the Noctua, and it will fit into nearly any standard desktop chassis. Likewise, it has more compatibility than an AIO cooler, which requires the use of a chassis exhaust and is large.

I'm sorry, but promoting product based solely on a single handmade prototype unit is not legitimate testing in my mind, and I'm guessing in most others also.
Testing of a production unit would be.
And yes, I do and have done hardware testing, but only pre-production/engineering samples, never prototypes/handbuilts.
That's just not worthwhile except for working out problems, bugs and manufacturing obstacles, not for public disclosures of performance.

I read the comments @ [H], were there any other forums you posted this at?

Again, I think you misunderstand me. I was given access to a prototype cooler and this is my objective data and subjective opinion of the experience. I'm not promoting a product. This is a review of a prototype. This is not a review of a production unit. Think of it as a hands-on review of the Oculus Rift Prototypes by the various hardware sites. It doesn't represent the production unit, yet it may be interesting for some to read about :biggrin:

Cheers!

 

[Micrornd]

I would encourage you to do your own investigations on the impacts. In my own investigations, the AIO performs worse with the side cover on. Also, my own investigations have shown that having the side of the case on has a very small impact on my systems. Most importantly, all 3 coolers were tested in the exact same method, so the testing is fair. That's scientific method. I do encourage you to check it out for yourself, but you have inspired me to write up an experiment that answers these questions you have. Perhaps I will have time to do it in the next few weeks.

I agree they were tested by the same method, my problem is that, that method is useless to compare how they perform in the real world under normal usage.
I don't agree with the "having the side of the case on has a very small impact", unless its sitting there doing nothing.
Normal usage is with the cases closed, which includes all other heat producing sources in the case.
And definitely for more than 30 min., most enthusiast PC are on used for hours at a time.
Testing of any product, prototype or production, should be based on how it will normally (and extremely) be used, especially prototypes.
The fact that some "pro" testers don't do this, doesn't make it right.
If all the other kids jump off a cliff.....

My "confusing method of testing" is basically a straight copy of how the hardware review sites test coolers. The method seems to be satisfactory for professional sites and community members alike.

I think your confusion comes from a lack of experience working with an Intel i74770k processor. With the i7 4770k at 4.4GHz and 1.20volts, it is more in the territory of 220-280W. For this reason, it is a good method of stressing a cooling system.

While I have not personally overclocked a 4770K myself, results are readily available.
I think the confusion here is on your part.
I was quoting power being used by my CPUs themselves (116w each), not total system usage.
[H] overclocked the same 4770K to 4.8ghz @1.26v and the CPU was only drawing 186w.
PcPer clocked @4.5 and the CPU used 146.7w
Bit-Tech @4.8ghz, 171w for the entire system at full load
Other reviews fall inline with these also.
Your 220-280W is not CPU usage and that is what I was trying to compare for cooling capacity and really what all heatsink reviews are based on.
Do you have the CPU power draw ??

The CoolClouds prototype uses a 120mm radiator. For this reason, it is appropriate to compare it to the best 120mm AIO cooler (Based on community feedback).

OK, that makes sense, even though it goes against AIO recommendations for size to OC with for that CPU.

The CoolClouds cooler has greater compatibility than the Noctua, and it will fit into nearly any standard desktop chassis. Likewise, it has more compatibility than an AIO cooler, which requires the use of a chassis exhaust and is large.

Apples and oranges for the most part and greatly dependent on the case.
Especially since the CoolCloud's quoted size is the same as the Noctua, and the radiator of the AIO allows it to be place at either the intake or exhaust of most cases (or even top).

So new questions -

Since you somehow convinced Tatty to reopen the thread @ TechPower-
Why do you claim the prototype weighs 900g including the fans @ TechPower -

I weighed the prototype and it is about 900g with the 2 fans on. That's actually the same as the Noctua Nh-D14! Beastly indeed!
The prototype is unfinished copper.

And CoolClouds claims 1500g for the production V14 unit ??

Did you lap the HS base as you point out in your pictures or was it provided to you that way??

Again, I think you misunderstand me. I was given access to a prototype cooler and this is my objective data and subjective opinion of the experience. I'm not promoting a product. This is a review of a prototype. This is not a review of a production unit. Think of it as a hands-on review of the Oculus Rift Prototypes by the various hardware sites. It doesn't represent the production unit, yet it may be interesting for some to read about :biggrin:
Cheers!

But It reads like you are promoting it.

EDIT:
Oh, wait .................. you are.

Looks like you wrote the copy, and maybe drank the KoolAid
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/coolclouds-suprcool-v14-cpu-cooler
There seems to be a lot of "WE" statements in that ad.
Part of the team, huh. wear the T-shirt proudly.

So a company that has been pushing this same concept for 6 years (but only patented it 3 yrs ago), to Intel, to DoD, and others, now wants to enter the consumer market and they have to have a fundraiser to do it?
Something is a little odd about that

And the CoolClouds website now - http://www.coolclouds.net/our-team-2/
And the former page - http://www.coolclouds.net/our-team/

Full disclosure up front would have been nice.

On second thought, don't bother answering, just too much off center here and too much water under the bridge.

 

[DigDog]

Well what a surprise; Rhett *does* work for the company.

Somehow i knew it. You know, i'm starting to think "the Force" wasn't just fantasy.

I feel a tremor in the thread.

 

[alkemyst]

OP tough crowd, if only the haters would contribute something themselves.

 

[dma0991]

The CoolClouds cooler has greater compatibility than the Noctua, and it will fit into nearly any standard desktop chassis. Likewise, it has more compatibility than an AIO cooler, which requires the use of a chassis exhaust and is large.

The CoolClouds heatsink falls into a gray area whereby it tries to be both but never actually consider the constraints and advantages that each solution has. If I had to make a pick, it would still be between the Noctua NH-D14 or something similar to a Corsair H80i.

Why choose the Noctua? It performed worse didn't it? If I were to assume that the results were legit, I would pick the Noctua as air heatsinks are fail proof and with no moving parts other than the fans, it has no major points of failure like a water pump. In fact, when it comes to reliability, I'd even choose the Noctua over the Corsair H80i.

As for AIOs that are like the Corsair H80i, while it requires a place in the case to mount, its compatibility goes far beyond what the CoolClouds can deliver. The advantages of having a flexible tubing instead of a fixed tower design:
1. Flexible tubing allows it to be mounted even in small mITX cases. CoolClouds have the same height/dimension constraints faced by large tower air coolers like Noctua NH-D14.
2. Radiator can be positioned to suck in fresh air from outside instead of recycling warmer case air, allowing it to perform better.
3. If tested with a GPU exhausting hot air from below, the results will skew towards coolers like Corsair H80i (Refer to point 2).
4. The weight of the radiator is bared by the case instead; less strain on the motherboard when the PC gets moved around.
5. You can have larger sized radiators(240mm, 280mm), more performance without putting more strain on the motherboard.

I'm not sure how accurate your sound tests are but from my experience, the CoolClouds would have been louder if both tests were conducted with the same set of fans. The CoolClouds has a high FPI radiator unlike the lower FPI radiator of the Corsair H80i. Higher FPI improves performance and likes high RPM, high static pressure fans but the downside to that is that air will have a tougher time passing through the fins, causing louder wind noise.

TL;DR, I'm not convinced that CoolClouds is the holy grail of PC cooling. Its just being different for the sake of being different(or just to circumvent Asetek's patent).

 

[VSG]

Well what a surprise; Rhett *does* work for the company.

Somehow i knew it. You know, i'm starting to think "the Force" wasn't just fantasy.

I feel a tremor in the thread.

This is pretty disappointing. OP should have mentioned this at the beginning. Now it just feels like free self promotion rather than any sort of a fair review.

 

[TheHobbyist]

Well what a surprise; Rhett *does* work for the company.

Somehow i knew it. You know, i'm starting to think "the Force" wasn't just fantasy.

I feel a tremor in the thread.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I am NOT a member of the Illuminati, and I have not received any money for anything I did with CoolClouds. Reading some of these comments makes me think I'm watching E! Entertainment News with the wife. As the Big Lebowski himself said "That's just, like, your opinion, man!"

Really guys, this is an enthusiast review of a prototype. It's not for sale and I'm not selling it. What do you guys think of the prototype and how it performed in the tests? Good Lord!