Amtrak derailment in Tacoma - multiple fatalities

[sdifox]

It's expensive as the system is on-board the train as well as along the tracks, however, it would've prevented this accident.

It should not be. Consumer gps know speed limits on each section of road. Rail operators know speed limit of each section of track.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

NTSB now says PTC was installed, it just wasn't active. So there is a strong chance this was entirely avoidable. You get the dimwit in chief tweeting immediately about his plan for infrastructure and yet everything was in place here and people still died.

 

[interchange]

It should not be. Consumer gps know speed limits on each section of road. Rail operators know speed limit of each section of track.

Yeah. You can develop a really sophisticated system that understands the condition of the tracks, etc. Or you can make something really simple that just uses GPS data, some logic, and a mechanism to apply the brake according to that logic. It won't do everything, but I'm pretty sure it could prevent a train from going 80 MPH into a 30 MPH curve.

 

[jmagg]

NTSB now says PTC was installed, it just wasn't active. So there is a strong chance this was entirely avoidable. You get the dimwit in chief tweeting immediately about his plan for infrastructure and yet everything was in place here and people still died.

Yup, blame Trump for an engineer going 50 over in a turn. Damn inertia.

 

[interchange]

Well I personally am having trouble comprehending how PTC could be installed but not active. I can't imagine they'd install that system and put passengers on a train without testing it. And industries like this have a series of checks they do before operation.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Yup, blame Trump for an engineer going 50 over in a turn. Damn inertia.

I'm blaming Trump for not even taking the time to offer condolences to the families before spouting off about something that was irrelevant to what occurred. This was a new engine on newly upgraded track. Instead of being the CIC in a time of tragedy he has to be the petty I'm always right dickwad when he is, as usual, wrong.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Well I personally am having trouble comprehending how PTC could be installed but not active.

Probably refers to the track side portion of it but we'll need to see the official report to know for sure.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Probably refers to the track side portion of it but we'll need to see the official report to know for sure.

The article I read on CNN was track side. It was installed but not active. This was a new locomotive and Amtrak has been making the biggest gains on PTC implementation so I can't see it not being on the engine.

 

[Puffnstuff]

The article I read on CNN was track side. It was installed but not active. This was a new locomotive and Amtrak has been making the biggest gains on PTC implementation so I can't see it not being on the engine.

Fortunately PTC is a unified standard that is the same irrespective of the owner/operator, what track you are on anywhere or what piece of equipment you are operating.

An AMTRAK locomotive with it installed can travel on CSX lines, NS can run on UP or whatever combination you might have and it will all work the same way and it has to with equipment sharing referred to as horsepower hours.

I do believe that criminal negligence will come into play with this wreck and that AMTRAK should only allow their trains to run on lines where PTC is verified to be operational along their planned route.

 

[Puffnstuff]

The other thing about this sad case is that AMTRAK is protected by law to a maximum liability of $200m for everybody concerned.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ities-capped-200-million-due-1997-law-n831071

 

[fskimospy]

Yup, blame Trump for an engineer going 50 over in a turn. Damn inertia.

People are blaming him for saying stupid and wrong things, not for the train wreck itself.

Also, while funding was not the issue here even if it was Trump's infrastructure plan CUTS funding for trains, it doesn't increase it.

 

[Ketchup]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/b...-endangers-our-citizens/ar-BBH1gFP?li=BBnb7Kz

According to this, Amtrac started PTC in 2000, and plans to be done by 2021 (just inside the deadline.) I have no idea what all is involved here, but 21 years? Wouldn't half that have been plenty?

Also, being the first real trip with passengers on the new route, wouldn't one expect a little extract caution? Not only was the train not going 35, it was right at the limit.

 

[bshole]

I do believe that criminal negligence will come into play with this wreck and that AMTRAK should only allow their trains to run on lines where PTC is verified to be operational along their planned route.

Oh absolutely, this is going to be multi-million dollar payout in the lawsuits. Completely inexcusable.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Oh absolutely, this is going to be multi-million dollar payout in the lawsuits. Completely inexcusable.

Unfortunately a federal judge will have to decide the disbursement of the $200m amongst the victims. If it weren't for that federal law this would have to potential to go way up in value to achieve equitable remedy.

I believe that we should all contact our representatives and express our concerns over this law that prevents justice from being served to the victims of any Amtrak accidents. The principle of equitable remedy should be preserved and people should be duly compensated for their injuries and suffering.

 

[bshole]

Unfortunately a federal judge will have to decide the disbursement of the $200m amongst the victims. If it weren't for that federal law this would have to potential to go way up in value to achieve equitable remedy.
.

What in the hell are you on about? This is going to be a multi-billion dollar baby.

 

[Puffnstuff]

What in the hell are you on about? This is going to be a multi-billion dollar baby.

No it isn't and can be found on page 9.
111 STAT. 2577
PUBLIC LAW 105–134—DEC. 2, 1997
Subtitle D—Use of Railroad Facilities
SEC. 161. LIABILITY LIMITATION.
(a) I
N
G
ENERAL
.—Chapter 281 is amended by adding at the
end the following new section:
‘‘§ 28103. Limitations on rail passenger transportation liabil-
ity
‘‘(a) L
IMITATIONS
.—(1) Notwithstanding any other statutory or
common law or public policy, or the nature of the conduct giving
rise to damages or liability, in a claim for personal injury to a
passenger, death of a passenger, or damage to property of a pas-
senger arising from or in connection with the provision of rail
passenger transportation, or from or in connection with any rail
passenger transportation operations over or rail passenger transpor-
tation use of right-of-way or facilities owned, leased, or maintained
by any high-speed railroad authority or operator, any commuter
authority or operator, any rail carrier, or any State, punitive dam-
ages, to the extent permitted by applicable State law, may be
awarded in connection with any such claim only if the plaintiff
establishes by clear and convincing evidence that the harm that
is the subject of the action was the result of conduct carried out
by the defendant with a conscious, flagrant indifference to the
rights or safety of others. If, in any case wherein death was caused,
the law of the place where the act or omission complained of
occurred provides, or has been construed to provide, for damages
only punitive in nature, this paragraph shall not apply.
‘‘(2) The aggregate allowable awards to all rail passengers,
against all defendants, for all claims, including claims for punitive
damages, arising from a single accident or incident, shall not exceed
$200,000,000.

https://www.congress.gov/105/plaws/publ134/PLAW-105publ134.pdf

 

[bshole]

No it isn't and can be found on page 9.
111 STAT. 2577
PUBLIC LAW 105–134—DEC. 2, 1997
Subtitle D—Use of Railroad Facilities
SEC. 161. LIABILITY LIMITATION.
(a) I
N
G
ENERAL
.—Chapter 281 is amended by adding at the
end the following new section:
‘‘§ 28103. Limitations on rail passenger transportation liabil-
ity
‘‘(a) L
IMITATIONS
.—(1) Notwithstanding any other statutory or
common law or public policy, or the nature of the conduct giving
rise to damages or liability, in a claim for personal injury to a
passenger, death of a passenger, or damage to property of a pas-
senger arising from or in connection with the provision of rail
passenger transportation, or from or in connection with any rail
passenger transportation operations over or rail passenger transpor-
tation use of right-of-way or facilities owned, leased, or maintained
by any high-speed railroad authority or operator, any commuter
authority or operator, any rail carrier, or any State, punitive dam-
ages, to the extent permitted by applicable State law, may be
awarded in connection with any such claim only if the plaintiff
establishes by clear and convincing evidence that the harm that
is the subject of the action was the result of conduct carried out
by the defendant with a conscious, flagrant indifference to the
rights or safety of others. If, in any case wherein death was caused,
the law of the place where the act or omission complained of
occurred provides, or has been construed to provide, for damages
only punitive in nature, this paragraph shall not apply.
‘‘(2) The aggregate allowable awards to all rail passengers,
against all defendants, for all claims, including claims for punitive
damages, arising from a single accident or incident, shall not exceed
$200,000,000.

https://www.congress.gov/105/plaws/publ134/PLAW-105publ134.pdf

Gotta love corporations. Why bother with safety when it is cheaper to limit payouts by law. Beautiful.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Gotta love corporations. Why bother with safety when it is cheaper to limit payouts by law. Beautiful.

Reminds me of the Ford Pinto debacle.

Nothing beats the unassailable logic of capitalism.

 

[herm0016]

404: capitalism not found in a government run and financed public transportation company

Nothing beats the unassailable logic of capitalism.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

404: capitalism not found in a government run and financed public transportation company

I was referencing specifically what bshole said, not referencing specifically Amtrak, as well, my comment about capitalism was specifically referencing Ford (and others who do shit like Ford did). I should have clarified.

 

[BoomerD]

Feel?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Gotta love corporations. Why bother with safety when it is cheaper to limit payouts by law. Beautiful.

Personally I'm appalled by this law which completely defeats the principles of equitable remedy and tort damages for negligence under strict liability.

 

[skyking]

I'm wondering if the speed limit signs were properly posted along that stretch of track. The fact that the signal just before the curve was laying on the ground makes me wonder just how well it was inspected for all regulatory compliance or if it was just rushed into service to look good. Nevertheless, there are dead and injured people because of negligence and that has to be accounted for.

The company I worked for probably put up that signal. I believe the train was already off the rails and knocked it down.

 

[BAMAVOO]

I just heard it hit something on the track. (local radio in Nashville)

 

[Ketchup]

I just heard it hit something on the track. (local radio in Nashville)

Yeah, cars run into things when going 80 in a 30. so why should a train be any different?