Amnesty for illegals (again) will destroy California

[fskimospy]

In fact they already are taking over the government.

State Senator Gil Cedillo (mexican) authored the "California DREAM Act" which gives kids of illegal mexicans preference in getting student loan/grant money, and precious slots for admission to Univ Calif. it is claimed they get preference OVER children of taxpaying citizens. http://www.csac.ca.gov/dream_act.asp

The republican governor Terminator vetoed it, so the democrats simply waited until a democrat took the governorship then pushed it into law. gov jerry moonbeam brown signed it into law.

When I went to get a replacement SS card the mexican girl working the counter immediately granted a ss card to a mexican illegal there in the lobbywhile I was. I was going to complain to the supervisor, till I saw he was mexican too. True story.

I'm going to call bullshit on your story.

 

[Agent11]

Jerry Brown sucks.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=8538491


I'm not very familiar with this dream act, is this it?

http://www.csac.ca.gov/pubs/forms/grnt_frm/AB131.pdf

 

[ichy]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

The amnesty program under Reagan did NOT work. Why would you think this time it will work? <scratching head..confused>

Yup. I might be less cynical if we hadn't done the same thing before but the fact is that "comprehensive" immigration reform will NOT be comprehensive. It will consist of legalization with no meaningful improvement in border security and immigration enforcement. 20 years from now we'll have tens of millions of additional illegals (assuming our country hasn't been completely Mexicanized by then) and the same thing will happen yet again.

 

[Jaskalas]

I swear a lot of you guys never had a real history lesson in your lives.
It's almost embarrassing as a Canadian to have to keep trying to teach Americans about America
All places change over time, they go one way hard, learn some lessons, try to change, over correct, try and fix that etc etc
Kansas for another example has turned to socialism during hard times only to be tossed aside when things start looking good again

http://www.kshs.org/p/socialism-history-collection/14117

Too many people get stuck in the here and right now and that's all that matters

All places change over time, is how you describe an invasion. A redefining of cultural borders. Of actual borders if they feel less than welcomed.

There are many folks who want to forcibly deport the illegals. You should all recognize that option means genocide. Means civil war. You speak of change, but forget that frequent enough that change is revolution - and revolutions are often bloody and violent.

So I spell out the reality to those who would play games of delusion. As if some magic anti-immigrant policy would stem the tide, or "save" California - a state that has already changed hands. I would tell them their attempts to act foolishly will greater alienate the aliens, and will help ensure their choice of secession later.

I advocate positive foreign relations with them, in the face of others advocating violent or hostile relations.

 

[ichy]

All places change over time,

The only reason that we're turning into Mexico North is that we're allowing it to happen.

 

[Agent11]

All places change over time, is how you describe an invasion. A redefining of cultural borders. Of actual borders if they feel less than welcomed.

There are many folks who want to forcibly deport the illegals. You should all recognize that option means genocide. Means civil war. You speak of change, but forget that frequent enough that change is revolution - and revolutions are often bloody and violent.

So I spell out the reality to those who would play games of delusion. As if some magic anti-immigrant policy would stem the tide, or "save" California - a state that has already changed hands. I would tell them their attempts to act foolishly will greater alienate the aliens, and will help ensure their choice of secession later.

I advocate positive foreign relations with them, in the face of others advocating violent or hostile relations.

That is an awfully fatalistic viewpoint. I do not subscribe to your point of view.

 

[Jaskalas]

That is an awfully fatalistic viewpoint. I do not subscribe to your point of view.

I'm trying to gauge where you stand, as you did not say.

Let's make this simple - do you think California has already changed hands? If you do not, I suggest looking at the ethnic ratio of the public schools and compare that to 5, 10, 15 years ago. The conclusion of the invasion is clear. It's over for that state and the legislature is beginning to reflect that even now.

So knowing what has occurred - how would you respond? I'd attempt to assimilate them via friendly relations. Not with empty threats of deporting their friends and family.

 

[Agent11]

My view is that they should be incentivised to leave. They are here illegally.

It is imminently doable, and it is what BOTH candidates said they were going to do last election.

To even suggest that ' California is already lost ' is ridiculous. There are many times more Americans than illegals in California. An argument could be made that if you do nothing in 60 years the population could relate more with mexico culturally, but that isn't going to happen.

 

[Oldgamer]

I thought the politically correct term was "undocumented workers"? This article seems really slanted to me.

 

[Orignal Earl]

In fact they already are taking over the government.

State Senator Gil Cedillo (mexican) authored the "California DREAM Act" which gives kids of illegal mexicans preference in getting student loan/grant money, and precious slots for admission to Univ Calif. it is claimed they get preference OVER children of taxpaying citizens. http://www.csac.ca.gov/dream_act.asp

The republican governor Terminator vetoed it, so the democrats simply waited until a democrat took the governorship then pushed it into law. gov jerry moonbeam brown signed it into law.

When I went to get a replacement SS card the mexican girl working the counter immediately granted a ss card to a mexican illegal there in the lobbywhile I was. I was going to complain to the supervisor, till I saw he was mexican too. True story.

Up here in Canada, after you become a citizen, we refer to you as a Canadian.
It's fine to celebrate where you came from too.
Do you call yourself Russian or whatever?
Which people do you call Americans?

 

[Socio]

My view is that they should be incentivised to leave. They are here illegally.

It is imminently doable, and it is what BOTH candidates said they were going to do last election.

To even suggest that ' California is already lost ' is ridiculous. There are many times more Americans than illegals in California. An argument could be made that if you do nothing in 60 years the population could relate more with mexico culturally, but that isn't going to happen.

Exactly, the way to do it is mandate the e-verify, raid businesses that still hire illegals, fine and jail the employers. Close off all welfare loopholes, no food stamps, no nothing for illegal immigrants. Make it illegal to sell,lease or rent dwellings to illegal immigrants. Remove automatic "anchor baby" citizenship, make it so you have to show proof of citizenship or legal status to enroll kids in to school etc...

We simply must make it as difficult as possible to exist in the US illegally, only then will there be a deterrent to coming here illegally, anything less is a waste of time.

 

[peonyu]

It's interesting to note that California used to be one of the worst states for racism
By the '50's most non whites where chased out, or at least knew their place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_massacre_of_1871

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_raid_(Inglewood)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Riot_of_1877

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Order_of_Caucasians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watsonville_Riots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workingmen's_Party_of_California

And yet, despite the supposed uber racism of white people... non-whites were [and still are] banging at the gates to move to California and the USA in general [aswell as Canada, Europe and Australia]. As bad as California was, it was and still is better than the places the migrants were coming from otherwise they never would have came here. Though it is starting to resemble mexico now, which means its becoming a pos state. Food for thought.

 

[Orignal Earl]

You guys aren't even making this fun anymore...
I keep feeling more sad instead

 

[Agent11]

If someone is an American citizen they are an American, obviously.

Although you have to look at all these movements for amnesty where people are openly declaring they are illegals, demanding legal status, and they are getting support. I don't get it.

 

[nehalem256]

Exactly, the way to do it is mandate the e-verify, raid businesses that still hire illegals, fine and jail the employers. Close off all welfare loopholes, no food stamps, no nothing for illegal immigrants. Make it illegal to sell,lease or rent dwellings to illegal immigrants. Remove automatic "anchor baby" citizenship, make it so you have to show proof of citizenship or legal status to enroll kids in to school etc...

We simply must make it as difficult as possible to exist in the US illegally, only then will there be a deterrent to coming here illegally, anything less is a waste of time.

Sadly I believe the Supreme Court ruled that was unconstitutional.

Although how illegal foreign invaders can claim constitutional protection is beyond me

 

[ringtail]

Jerry Brown sucks.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/state&id=8538491

Yes. I think so too.

Jerry Brown sucks.

I'm not very familiar with this dream act, is this it?

http://www.csac.ca.gov/pubs/forms/grnt_frm/AB131.pdf

No. According to what I only just now looked up, that's different legislation having to do with "The Master Plan also proposed a statutory framework for its implementation, which was signed into law by Governor Brown on April 27, 1960. The statute actually implementing the Master Plan is formally titled the Donahoe Higher Education Act"

 

[ringtail]

I'm going to call bullshit on your story.

It's true.
I had to go to the SS office in Paseo Nuevo, Santa Barbara.
The visitors in the lobby were only me, and a pair of mexican guys. I waited behind them at the service counter.
There was a sign on the lobby wall stating what ID was admissible to receive a SS card. It distinctly stated mail was not allowed as ID.

One of the pair of mexicans could not speak English. He had no, zero identification. No wallet, no driver's license, nothing. The ONLY thing he had was a letter showing a handwritten address and his friend attested to the young mexicana working the counter that the guy lived at that local address, he was a local resident proved by the mail.
All this was conducted in spanish, which I'm pretty good at too.

They talked in spanish for maybe 2 minutes, then the girl handed the guy a card.

This happened 2 feet from my face.

I was going to bring it up to the supervisor in back, then I saw he was mexican too. They hang together.

So eskimospy you can "claim bullshit" if you wish, that's fine with me. My report about this is true.

 

[ringtail]

All places change over time, is how you describe an invasion. A redefining of cultural borders. Of actual borders if they feel less than welcomed.

There are many folks who want to forcibly deport the illegals. You should all recognize that option means genocide. Means civil war. You speak of change, but forget that frequent enough that change is revolution - and revolutions are often bloody and violent.

So I spell out the reality to those who would play games of delusion. As if some magic anti-immigrant policy would stem the tide, or "save" California - a state that has already changed hands. I would tell them their attempts to act foolishly will greater alienate the aliens, and will help ensure their choice of secession later.

I advocate positive foreign relations with them, in the face of others advocating violent or hostile relations.

Yes, exactly, it is an invasion. The leftist political machine is forcing we the people to pay for mexicans to invade us.

Drive up the California Central Valley, breadbbasket for the entire world. Now there are many large encampments of mexican peasant squatters out on the open land, populated with perhaps tens of thousands of people in each. They have a singlre-minded focus: H_A V_E a baby!!!! Then they're golden.

Drive down some of the roads in north San Diego county. There are huge encampments of illegal mexican peasants squatting off in the hills. There's a huge one along El Camino Real between Rancho Santa Fe and La Costa.

Baby born here is citizen, parents get welfare,get Green Card to remain, sponsor over tons of other relatives from mexico, they get welfare too, we pay. The flood of them has just about destroyed the public schools.

They're not interested in assimilating, they want us to pay for them to set up their imported different culture. They are succeeding.

 

[fskimospy]

It's true.
I had to go to the SS office in Paseo Nuevo, Santa Barbara.
The visitors in the lobby were only me, and a pair of mexican guys. I waited behind them at the service counter.
There was a sign on the lobby wall stating what ID was admissible to receive a SS card. It distinctly stated mail was not allowed as ID.

One of the pair of mexicans could not speak English. He had no, zero identification. No wallet, no driver's license, nothing. The ONLY thing he had was a letter showing a handwritten address and his friend attested to the young mexicana working the counter that the guy lived at that local address, he was a local resident proved by the mail.
All this was conducted in spanish, which I'm pretty good at too.

They talked in spanish for maybe 2 minutes, then the girl handed the guy a card.

This happened 2 feet from my face.

I was going to bring it up to the supervisor in back, then I saw he was mexican too. They hang together.

So eskimospy you can "claim bullshit" if you wish, that's fine with me. My report about this is true.

First, it's odd that they would be carrying out business of that nature in a way that you could hear it, in particular two feet from your face.

Second, new or replacement social security cards are not handed out at social security offices, they are mailed to you after your documents are verified.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/ans...et-a-social-security-card-from-a-local-office

So yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on you again.

 

[Jaskalas]

Drive up the California Central Valley

I have, and I will attest that it belongs to the foreign population.

 

[ivwshane]

First, it's odd that they would be carrying out business of that nature in a way that you could hear it, in particular two feet from your face.

Second, new or replacement social security cards are not handed out at social security offices, they are mailed to you after your documents are verified.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/ans...et-a-social-security-card-from-a-local-office

So yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on you again.

Oops!

Do you think his world has been destroyed?

 

[shortylickens]

Yeah saw that on the news.

Oh well.

 

[Jaskalas]

To even suggest that ' California is already lost ' is ridiculous. There are many times more Americans than illegals in California. An argument could be made that if you do nothing in 60 years the population could relate more with mexico culturally, but that isn't going to happen.

Having lived there for 21 years, I would stand by my view of the situation. Within a generation, most those "Americans" will be the sons and daughters of the illegals. They will not allow you to remove their friends and family.

This nation is divided on the subject. A pathway to citizenship will be the solution. That is amnesty. They are not going anywhere and both Republicans and Democrats agree on this. In 2006 Bush and McCain pushed VERY hard to achieve this goal. It took "radicals" to scare them off. Now they have waited a few years, the GOP is revved up to try it again.

Who is going to send them home? Who is going to pass a law, and enforce it to ensure this? No one. This land is their land, simply because they're living on it. You don't have the force to change that. Never did, never will.

 

[fskimospy]

Having lived there for 21 years, I would stand by my view of the situation. Within a generation, most those "Americans" will be the sons and daughters of the illegals. They will not allow you to remove their friends and family.

This nation is divided on the subject. A pathway to citizenship will be the solution. That is amnesty. They are not going anywhere and both Republicans and Democrats agree on this. In 2006 Bush and McCain pushed VERY hard to achieve this goal. It took "radicals" to scare them off. Now they have waited a few years, the GOP is revved up to try it again.

Who is going to send them home? Who is going to pass a law, and enforce it to ensure this? No one. This land is their land, simply because they're living on it. You don't have the force to change that. Never did, never will.

I lived there for 10 and I hold the opposite view. First there is the well documented xenophobia that America has displayed throughout its history. There are tons of cases of the exact same hysteria about previous ethnic groups. I know I have linked the famous Ben Franklin quote about the Germans here many times where he basically says all the same things about them as people say about Mexicans now.

More importantly though, the children of immigrants do not identify nearly as strongly with their home country as their parents do, and the children's children are in many ways indistinguishable from other Americans. There is no evidence whatsoever that Mexican immigrants are assimilating more slowly than previous groups, so I really don't see a problem anyway.

 

[fskimospy]

Oops!

Do you think his world has been destroyed?

I find it highly unlikely he will rethink anything. Hell, I fully expect him to find a way to rationalize that he really saw the person being granted a social security card in 2 minutes after showing a clerk a piece of mail.

Stuff like this isn't about rationality, it's about what people feel in their gut.