Amnesty for illegals (again) will destroy California

ringtail

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2012
1,030
34
91
Although the flood of unwanted illegal mexicans has pretty much already passed the point of no return here in California, Obama is determined to gift California to mexico. I agree with what this guy says.

http://www.noozhawk.com/article/032113_joe_guzzardi_amnesty_would_devastate_california/

Amnesty Would Devastate California; Nation Not Far Behind
By Joe Guzzardi | Published on 03.21.2013

Americans who support President Barack Obama and the Senate Gang of Eight’s amnesty proposal should take a hard look at California, especially the state’s public school system.
I’m a native Californian, born and raised in Los Angeles during the 1950s. Back then, Los Angeles had the nation’s highest percentage of Anglo-Saxon residents. During the half-century that’s passed since my youth, Los Angeles — and all of Southern California between Bakersfield and the U.S.-Mexico border — has been completely transformed. Los Angeles County is more than half Latino and represents one-third of the voters.
Nearly half of California’s births are Hispanic; 53 percent out of wedlock. In Los Angeles, the Hispanic birth total is 55 percent. The birth pattern, give or take a few percentage points, has been well established for decades. As the inevitable consequence, the most recent Census Bureau data put California’s Hispanic population (37.6 percent) at nearly equal to non-Hispanic whites (40 percent). During the decade from 2000-10, California’s Hispanic population grew by 28 percent.
California’s public schools have been severely impacted. Once considered America’s best, California’s K-12 system leads the nation in failing schools — and by a comfortable margin. Of the 15,277 schools eligible to receive a federal School Improvement Grant, 2,720 are in California. Even after allowing that California is the most populated state, it’s percentage of failing schools ranks in the top 5. Only Mississippi did worse than California in basic reading skills. Not coincidentally, of California’s 6.2 million K-12 enrollments, 52 percent are Hispanic. Of the 1.3 million English Language Learners, 85 percent speak Spanish at home.
To help California’s struggling schools, Gov. Jerry Brown will allocate a significant portion of the new Proposition 30 taxes to districts with poor, non-English speaking students. Brown’s announcement left many school administrators from middle-class districts howling. For taxpayers, Prop. 30 represents a special tax to fund illegal immigrants and their citizen children.
California’s demographic sea change did not evolve naturally. Two immigration bills passed without voter input, the Immigration Act of 1965 and the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) plus a complete failure to enforce federal immigration law, led California to its precipice. Because of lax federal enforcement and special state entitlements for aliens, during the last five decades millions have migrated to California illegally.
Should this year’s amnesty pass, California will get more of the same. In 1986, then-President Ronald Reagan promised that the IRCA would be the last amnesty, that the border would be secured and that employer sanctions would be rigorously imposed on businesses that hired illegal immigrants. From day one, those promises were broken.
Now, Congress vows to do what it originally pledged in 1986. Don’t hold your breath. Instead, history proves that another amnesty would encourage more illegal immigration, an outcome that neither California nor America can afford. In 1986, Congress predicted that about 1.5 million aliens would receive amnesty. By the time the Immigration and Naturalization Service completed its paperwork, more than 3 million had green cards. If today’s estimated 11 million aliens double, as they did in 1986, the total could turn out to be 22 million. Nearly 3 million aliens live in California; by 2040, it might be 6 million.
The newly legalized aliens will instantly be given work permits, which will allow them to compete with 20 million unemployed/underemployed Americans for scarce jobs. They’ll automatically qualify for the Affordable Health Care Act and Social Security. The Washington, D.C-based Heritage Foundation estimates that within 20 years, amnesty’s cost will reach $3 trillion.
Social scientists often claim that trends which begin in California quickly sweep throughout the country. Amnesty would accelerate Hispanics’ growing demographic presence.

 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
62,966
11,347
136
Both sides are complicit in the illegal immigrant problem.

Democrats want the votes, Republicans want the cheap labor.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
One thing I don't get is how CA is one of the most expensive places to live when they should have the cheapest labor.

I support illegal immigration but only because it allows people to pay market level wages for labor.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
To all the people who went through the imigration process legally: Sorry about that.
 

ringtail

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2012
1,030
34
91
My 2 cents worth:

1) We've got to cease granting citizenship to babies of non-citizen illegal parents merely because they're birthed inside the US border;

2) We've got to stop this new social meme of treating the concept of a national border between US and mexico as a joke ---it's KILLING us
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I’m a native Californian, born and raised in Los Angeles during the 1950s. Back then, Los Angeles had the nation’s highest percentage of Anglo-Saxon residents.

It's interesting to note that California used to be one of the worst states for racism
By the '50's most non whites where chased out, or at least knew their place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_massacre_of_1871

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_raid_(Inglewood)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Riot_of_1877

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Order_of_Caucasians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watsonville_Riots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workingmen's_Party_of_California
 

ringtail

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2012
1,030
34
91
It's interesting to note that California used to be one of the worst states for racism <CUTOUT FOR BREVITY>

I disagree. Actually California has always been perhaps the most internationally diverse, multicultural place in the entire USA. From

  • the so called "native americans" who descended from various origins worldwide, especially from Asia
  • then Russian fur hunters (who nearly caused extinction of some of those "native american populations)
  • to the Spaniards
  • then Mexicans
  • then gold hunters from the whole world
California has ALWAYS mixed it up racially and culturally, as much or even more than other immigrant-heavy places like New York.

The near take-over by illegal mexican peasants is only since say maybe the last 20 years or so.

So I because of the factual history I really think the position you expressed is incorrect, but you're welcome to your opinion.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,461
6,103
126
Although the flood of unwanted illegal mexicans has pretty much already passed the point of no return here in California, Obama is determined to gift California to mexico. I agree with what this guy says.

http://www.noozhawk.com/article/032113_joe_guzzardi_amnesty_would_devastate_california/

Amnesty Would Devastate California; Nation Not Far Behind
By Joe Guzzardi | Published on 03.21.2013

Americans who support President Barack Obama and the Senate Gang of Eight’s amnesty proposal should take a hard look at California, especially the state’s public school system.
I’m a native Californian, born and raised in Los Angeles during the 1950s. Back then, Los Angeles had the nation’s highest percentage of Anglo-Saxon residents. During the half-century that’s passed since my youth, Los Angeles — and all of Southern California between Bakersfield and the U.S.-Mexico border — has been completely transformed. Los Angeles County is more than half Latino and represents one-third of the voters.
Nearly half of California’s births are Hispanic; 53 percent out of wedlock. In Los Angeles, the Hispanic birth total is 55 percent. The birth pattern, give or take a few percentage points, has been well established for decades. As the inevitable consequence, the most recent Census Bureau data put California’s Hispanic population (37.6 percent) at nearly equal to non-Hispanic whites (40 percent). During the decade from 2000-10, California’s Hispanic population grew by 28 percent.
California’s public schools have been severely impacted. Once considered America’s best, California’s K-12 system leads the nation in failing schools — and by a comfortable margin. Of the 15,277 schools eligible to receive a federal School Improvement Grant, 2,720 are in California. Even after allowing that California is the most populated state, it’s percentage of failing schools ranks in the top 5. Only Mississippi did worse than California in basic reading skills. Not coincidentally, of California’s 6.2 million K-12 enrollments, 52 percent are Hispanic. Of the 1.3 million English Language Learners, 85 percent speak Spanish at home.
To help California’s struggling schools, Gov. Jerry Brown will allocate a significant portion of the new Proposition 30 taxes to districts with poor, non-English speaking students. Brown’s announcement left many school administrators from middle-class districts howling. For taxpayers, Prop. 30 represents a special tax to fund illegal immigrants and their citizen children.
California’s demographic sea change did not evolve naturally. Two immigration bills passed without voter input, the Immigration Act of 1965 and the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (IRCA) plus a complete failure to enforce federal immigration law, led California to its precipice. Because of lax federal enforcement and special state entitlements for aliens, during the last five decades millions have migrated to California illegally.
Should this year’s amnesty pass, California will get more of the same. In 1986, then-President Ronald Reagan promised that the IRCA would be the last amnesty, that the border would be secured and that employer sanctions would be rigorously imposed on businesses that hired illegal immigrants. From day one, those promises were broken.
Now, Congress vows to do what it originally pledged in 1986. Don’t hold your breath. Instead, history proves that another amnesty would encourage more illegal immigration, an outcome that neither California nor America can afford. In 1986, Congress predicted that about 1.5 million aliens would receive amnesty. By the time the Immigration and Naturalization Service completed its paperwork, more than 3 million had green cards. If today’s estimated 11 million aliens double, as they did in 1986, the total could turn out to be 22 million. Nearly 3 million aliens live in California; by 2040, it might be 6 million.
The newly legalized aliens will instantly be given work permits, which will allow them to compete with 20 million unemployed/underemployed Americans for scarce jobs. They’ll automatically qualify for the Affordable Health Care Act and Social Security. The Washington, D.C-based Heritage Foundation estimates that within 20 years, amnesty’s cost will reach $3 trillion.
Social scientists often claim that trends which begin in California quickly sweep throughout the country. Amnesty would accelerate Hispanics’ growing demographic presence.


You could shorten that up a bit by simply posting "I'm a xenophobe."
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
33,460
7,516
136
Although the flood of unwanted illegal mexicans has pretty much already passed the point of no return here in California, Obama is determined to gift California to mexico. I agree with what this guy says.

California's fate has already passed. It is simply a matter of watching it unfold. Absolutely nothing shall change it.

The real question is, once they assume mantle over the state government, will they still consider themselves Americans? What role would we play in that decision?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,237
14,950
136
I wonder what kind of history this writer has and if he has an agenda.

To me it reads like a slick talking, educated, racist trying to drum up that "fear" the right crave for so much.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86


I disagree. Actually California has always been perhaps the most internationally diverse, multicultural place in the entire USA. From

  • the so called "native americans" who descended from various origins worldwide, especially from Asia
  • then Russian fur hunters (who nearly caused extinction of some of those "native american populations)
  • to the Spaniards
  • then Mexicans
  • then gold hunters from the whole world
California has ALWAYS mixed it up racially and culturally, as much or even more than other immigrant-heavy places like New York.

The near take-over by illegal mexican peasants is only since say maybe the last 20 years or so.

So I because of the factual history I really think the position you expressed is incorrect, but you're welcome to your opinion.


You can disagree all you want, it does not change the facts, did you read any of the links I posted?
Your bullet points there tell the same story
There are documentries on this on Netflix, I just watched one about a month ago
You also seem to be very unaware of the demographics of other states
 
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Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
California's fate has already passed. It is simply a matter of watching it unfold. Absolutely nothing shall change it.

I swear a lot of you guys never had a real history lesson in your lives.
It's almost embarrassing as a Canadian to have to keep trying to teach Americans about America
All places change over time, they go one way hard, learn some lessons, try to change, over correct, try and fix that etc etc
Kansas for another example has turned to socialism during hard times only to be tossed aside when things start looking good again

Socialism as a political force in Kansas essentially grew from the power vacuum left by the Populist Party failure of the 1890s. Southeast Kansas, with its large southern and eastern European immigrant population and coal and zinc mining industry, soon became the hub of the nascent movement in Kansas. Around the turn of the century, when J. A. Wayland began publishing the socialist newspaper Appeal to Reason in Girard, and after the founding of the Socialist Party of America in 1901, it soon became one of the major hubs of socialism in the United States. This part of the state was a favorite place to visit for prominent socialists, such as Eugene V. Debs. In 1912, socialists swept nearly all of the county offices in Crawford County. This was the high point of socialism in Kansas, as well as all over the country. However, World War I brought this to an end. Many socialists who were against the war were imprisoned and their publications suppressed. The socialists were additionally weakened in 1919 when the communists defected to form their own party. The Appeal, which had essentially stopped being a socialist paper several years prior, was discontinued in 1922. The movement regained some popularity during the Great Depression; however, that soon ended when the New Deal programs began taking effect and World War II created a general prosperity. In the following decade, McCarthyism further weakened all left-wing groups. By that time, the Socialist Party was effectively impotent and would never again see the successes they achieved in the early decades of the century.
http://www.kshs.org/p/socialism-history-collection/14117

Too many people get stuck in the here and right now and that's all that matters
 

ichy

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2006
6,940
8
81
2) We've got to stop this new social meme of treating the concept of a national border between US and mexico as a joke ---it's KILLING us[/SIZE][/FONT]

We also need to start calling people out when they pull their cry wolf bullshit and start bitching about "racism" every time someone suggests enforcing immigration laws.
 

ringtail

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2012
1,030
34
91
California's fate has already passed. It is simply a matter of watching it unfold. Absolutely nothing shall change it.

The real question is, once they assume mantle over the state government, will they still consider themselves Americans? What role would we play in that decision?

In fact they already are taking over the government.

State Senator Gil Cedillo (mexican) authored the "California DREAM Act" which gives kids of illegal mexicans preference in getting student loan/grant money, and precious slots for admission to Univ Calif. it is claimed they get preference OVER children of taxpaying citizens. http://www.csac.ca.gov/dream_act.asp

The republican governor Terminator vetoed it, so the democrats simply waited until a democrat took the governorship then pushed it into law. gov jerry moonbeam brown signed it into law.

When I went to get a replacement SS card the mexican girl working the counter immediately granted a ss card to a mexican illegal there in the lobbywhile I was. I was going to complain to the supervisor, till I saw he was mexican too. True story.
 

Socio

Golden Member
May 19, 2002
1,730
2
81
California's fate has already passed. It is simply a matter of watching it unfold. Absolutely nothing shall change it.

The real question is, once they assume mantle over the state government, will they still consider themselves Americans? What role would we play in that decision?

Therein lies the problem!

I live on the border and have a long time friend who is Hispanic and 3rd generation American. He is a staunch democrat and the other day brought up Rand Paul said he kind of liked him now.

I was shocked and I asked why?

He said because Rand's stance on illegal immigration, he would let them stay, he would do right by "his people".

I said if they are your people then what am I?

He said, you are a fellow American but that is different.

I was dumbfounded and just dropped the line of questioning as I could tell it would have been all down hill from there.

However I fear this mentality is so widespread among Hispanics it is going to cause serious issues in the future.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Oh boo hoo, you exploited Mexico for it's cheap labor/lax environmental&labor standards and undercut their farmers through NAFTA, destroyed your unions that in the past would protect you from illegal labor, a never ending drug war that is ripping apart Mexico, etc.

you have become cheap bastards when it's time to pay legitimate workers and look the other way when illegals are used so you can save a buck, and your illegal chickens are coming home to roost,

and now you are all crying about the injustice of it all, typical American attitude from the welfare queen to the wall street king, believe you are entitled to it all as long as you can get it on the cheap or better yet have someone else pay for it.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
I have always said that those douchebag illegals are a big threat to the US. They are taking over California and driving out the innocent people. They are also destroying this country. Screw them and all their supporters.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,089
27,008
136
My 2 cents worth:

1) We've got to cease granting citizenship to babies of non-citizen illegal parents merely because they're birthed inside the US border;

2) We've got to stop this new social meme of treating the concept of a national border between US and mexico as a joke ---it's KILLING us

There's nothing new about the border being a joke. When Napolitano states that the border is more secure now than ever befoe it is not empty rhetoric. Throughout most of our history the border has been completely unsecured. Along most of the border we only had a fence at all in order to keep cattle from wandering across. California is not being killed by Mexican labor. California growers have always relied on cheap Mexican labor. Their entire business model was built on it. Likewise for Arizonan and New Mexican farmers and building trades. Americans businesses love cheap Mexican labor because these businesses get to privatize the profits and socialize the costs.
 

michal1980

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2003
8,019
43
91
Oh boo hoo, you exploited Mexico for it's cheap labor/lax environmental&labor standards and undercut their farmers through NAFTA, destroyed your unions that in the past would protect you from illegal labor, a never ending drug war that is ripping apart Mexico, etc.

you have become cheap bastards when it's time to pay legitimate workers and look the other way when illegals are used so you can save a buck, and your illegal chickens are coming home to roost,

and now you are all crying about the injustice of it all, typical American attitude from the welfare queen to the wall street king, believe you are entitled to it all as long as you can get it on the cheap or better yet have someone else pay for it.

talk about revisionist history
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,396
126
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana

The amnesty program under Reagan did NOT work. Why would you think this time it will work? <scratching head..confused>

Million and million of people (with skill and education) around the world are waiting for years in vain to get in the legal way while we let the illegal peasants get in and grant them amnesty. Why even bother to have immigration law? I bet more and more people will try to get in the illegal way...oops.."undocumented" .. rather than follow the law.

It is sad that we as a nation allow this to happen. Barbarians at the gate, indeed.
 
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nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
In fact they already are taking over the government.

State Senator Gil Cedillo (mexican) authored the "California DREAM Act" which gives kids of illegal mexicans preference in getting student loan/grant money, and precious slots for admission to Univ Calif. it is claimed they get preference OVER children of taxpaying citizens. http://www.csac.ca.gov/dream_act.asp

The republican governor Terminator vetoed it, so the democrats simply waited until a democrat took the governorship then pushed it into law. gov jerry moonbeam brown signed it into law.

When I went to get a replacement SS card the mexican girl working the counter immediately granted a ss card to a mexican illegal there in the lobbywhile I was. I was going to complain to the supervisor, till I saw he was mexican too. True story.

Giving aid and comfort to illegal foreign invaders. Sounds like we need to start trying some people for treason.