America's wealth gap 'unsustainable,' may worsen: Harvard study

[IndyColtsFan]

But but but Indyfan is "concerned" about the little people so all will be well.

Bahahahahaha :biggrin:

I really wish you would learn to quote correctly. Maybe I can ask my neighbor's 8 year-old daughter to tutor you on internet use?

What's a 1%er Dave?

 

[dmcowen674]

You hit a nerve with me because you don't even know what a 1%er is? That's interesting logic. I'll give you a hint -- very few people in this forum are 1%ers, me included.

Awwwww, so cute

You know your way of life can be over overnight.

Shirley you must be ready to go to Monaco, Costa Rica or any of the other rich boy clubhouses when it all hits the fan.

 

[z1ggy]

Awwwww, so cute

You know your way of life can be over overnight.

Shirley you must be ready to go to Monaco, Costa Rica or any of the other rich boy clubhouses when it all hits the fan.

I'm familiar with OPs posts time and time again, but I guess I'm not as familiar with his overall position in these forums like I am with certain people in ATOT.

Is this user a troll or just really out of touch/dumb? I just keep seeing a bunch of back and forth with him saying things, but no actual substance or facts to prove his position on the subject matter, such as what I've quoted above.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Awwwww, so cute

Yeah, I agree, it is cute that you think you know what a 1%er is but yet, refuse to answer when asked.

You know your way of life can be over overnight.

Sorry to disappoint you, but not overnight.

Shirley you must be ready to go to Monaco, Costa Rica or any of the other rich boy clubhouses when it all hits the fan.

I don't know who "Shirley" is, but I'll make sure to check my chateaus out when I'm in Germany and Austria in a few weeks.

 

[jackstar7]

So when do we reach justification levels that surpass scoffing and move to legitimate outrage?

I suppose it won't matter.

 

[poofyhairguy]

So when do we reach justification levels that surpass scoffing and move to legitimate outrage?

When we see unemployment in the 20s or 30s. So not for a while.

 

[jackstar7]

When we see unemployment in the 20s or 30s. So not for a while.

I doubt there will be outrage at that point. We'll all be stuffing ourselves with cake!

 

[MixMasterTang]

When we see unemployment in the 20s or 30s. So not for a while.

Or when it costs more to actually go to work than you make at your job.

 

[Victorian Gray]

If I remember right, didn't union bosses support free trade? Weren't they pro GATT and pro NAFTA?

The middle class is doomed.

It seems nobody is working to get our jobs back from china.

Wrong. They didn't like it then and they still don't like it.

"Two decades ago, the strongest critics of the North American Free Trade Agreement were members of labor unions. They warned that the trade deal would mean the loss of manufacturing jobs to Mexico and lower wages for U.S. workers.

Today, 20 years since NAFTA's passage, unions feel as strongly as ever that the deal was a bad idea.

Back in 1993, the labor movement was mobilized against the creation of a massive free-trade zone including the U.S., Canada and Mexico. There were union-backed protests around the U.S. — at the Capitol in Washington and especially in the industrial Midwest and in big manufacturing states.

That fall in Lansing, Mich., Ruben Burks of the United Auto Workers addressed a big crowd. "Do we care about our jobs?" he said to cheers. "Do we care about our brothers and sisters in Mexico and Canada? Brothers and sisters, we're going to stop this NAFTA — you're darn right we are."

http://www.npr.org/2013/12/17/251945882/what-has-nafta-meant-for-workers-that-debates-still-raging

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by poofyhairguy
When we see unemployment in the 20s or 30s. So not for a while.

Or when it costs more to actually go to work than you make at your job.

More and more are realizing just that and no longer working.

The numbers to pick up pitchforks is growing everyday and as you see many of the 1%ers are realizing it.

 

[OverVolt]

Or when it costs more to actually go to work than you make at your job.

Happened to roman farmers. Why isnt there any food!? doh.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I doubt there will be outrage at that point. We'll all be stuffing ourselves with cake!

If the 1% are smart, yes.

 

[Matt1970]

Here's where we part company. What I have and have earned on merit is being eroded by those paid to invent ways to keep those like me, those who do work, from even holding even with inflation so those at the top of the food chain can gain at an even more fantastic rate. I begrudge no one what they have labored for, but their work has centered around taking for themselves. Only a fool would favor that.

It's how the Dems keep their base fired up. For you to see how shitty things are for you they have to compare what you have to someone who has substantially more than you. All of a sudden your house seems smaller and more run down, your car seems older, your job seems harder and those at the top seem to have what they do by taking it from those at the bottom.

 

[Matt1970]

No matter your personal opinion of who is worth what, or who deserves what, the truth is that every American citizen has real leverage over the 1%. Through either political revolution (aka a extremely progressive income or state tax) or through violent upheaval (which would tank the stock market) they have the ability to either take or destroy the wealth that makes the 1% the 1%. Sure some of the 1% might move to some island that is a rich person's utopia, but eventually they have to come to America for a business meeting or send their kids to Harvard to get an education and then you have them by the balls.

So chose 1%ers: are you just going to break down and give every American a decent standard of living just for existing to placate us all, or does the 99% rise up and take it from you ruining a lot of progress and wealth in the process?

The time for mental games of what philosophy is right and which one is wrong is running out. Soon the rubber will meet the road and it will come down to what line on the balance sheet- chaos or placation- saves you the most money. I bet its placation.

Just look at France for what an extremely progressive tax rate does. And saying a violent upheaval would tank the stock market is putting it mildly. It would more than likely be the great depression x2.

 

[Matt1970]

Wrong. They didn't like it then and they still don't like it.

"Two decades ago, the strongest critics of the North American Free Trade Agreement were members of labor unions. They warned that the trade deal would mean the loss of manufacturing jobs to Mexico and lower wages for U.S. workers.

Today, 20 years since NAFTA's passage, unions feel as strongly as ever that the deal was a bad idea.

Back in 1993, the labor movement was mobilized against the creation of a massive free-trade zone including the U.S., Canada and Mexico. There were union-backed protests around the U.S. — at the Capitol in Washington and especially in the industrial Midwest and in big manufacturing states.

That fall in Lansing, Mich., Ruben Burks of the United Auto Workers addressed a big crowd. "Do we care about our jobs?" he said to cheers. "Do we care about our brothers and sisters in Mexico and Canada? Brothers and sisters, we're going to stop this NAFTA — you're darn right we are."

http://www.npr.org/2013/12/17/251945882/what-has-nafta-meant-for-workers-that-debates-still-raging

And they were also the ones 20 years before that warning us about what buying imports would do.

 

[1prophet]

Wrong. They didn't like it then and they still don't like it.

"Two decades ago, the strongest critics of the North American Free Trade Agreement were members of labor unions. They warned that the trade deal would mean the loss of manufacturing jobs to Mexico and lower wages for U.S. workers.

Today, 20 years since NAFTA's passage, unions feel as strongly as ever that the deal was a bad idea.

Back in 1993, the labor movement was mobilized against the creation of a massive free-trade zone including the U.S., Canada and Mexico. There were union-backed protests around the U.S. — at the Capitol in Washington and especially in the industrial Midwest and in big manufacturing states.

That fall in Lansing, Mich., Ruben Burks of the United Auto Workers addressed a big crowd. "Do we care about our jobs?" he said to cheers. "Do we care about our brothers and sisters in Mexico and Canada? Brothers and sisters, we're going to stop this NAFTA — you're darn right we are."

http://www.npr.org/2013/12/17/251945882/what-has-nafta-meant-for-workers-that-debates-still-raging

Yet they still support their corporate owned democrat puppet masters that stick the knife in the back of unions and working class Americans while paying lip service to them.

http://www.socialistappeal.org/usa/a_year_of_betrayal_by_the_democr.html

Unlike during the post-WWII period of relative prosperity and economic stability, the Democratic Party is no longer able or willing to fulfill its liberal promises to protect social welfare, job security or Social Security. There are no more "Great Society" or "New Deal" programs on the horizon. But why does the leadership of the US’s trade unions still insist on doggedly standing by a party that for the past 20 years has stabbed our nation’s workers in the back at every opportunity? Part of the answer is obvious - they are getting along very well in life by balancing between the workers they are supposed to represent, and the bosses whose real interests they often serve.

In the mid-term election cycle the AFL-CIO contributed over $35 million towards Democratic candidates, not counting the money donated by individual unions. The AFSCME (State and Federal employees) alone gave $16 million. In addition to financial backing, the AFL-CIO as well as union locals provided thousands of volunteers for canvassing and in phone banks, TV commercials and mass mailings to members. Yet not only did the Democrats suffer a defeat, they did not even campaign on ‘liberal’ issues! Once again, for the millionth time, the trade unions (the leadership at least) gave their wholehearted support to the Democratic Party only to have these rats swindle them - again.

Gerald McEntee, the President of AFSCME and also director of the AFL-CIO’s political efforts since 1995, said in an interview with the St. Louis Post-Dispatch (10-10-02) that "I think the Democrats sell themselves short on those issues [economic issues], and they should be consistently and almost constantly trying to force the administration to discuss those issues. They stayed back too long." Well, either Mr. McEntee is extremely naive or he has a reward in store for him from the Democratic National Committee upon his retirement! The problem is not that the Democrats "sell themselves short" on the issues dear to the working people - they simply don’t share the same class interests! Just because the Democratic coffers are filled with the COPE contributions of the working class doesn’t change the fact that the people who run the Democratic Party are pro-business ex-corporate lawyers and big business people. These are people who will always serve their corporate sponsors before they will even consider the pleas of the AFL-CIO’s political committee, let alone the rank and file!

The backing of the Democratic Party by the leading bureaucracy of the AFL-CIO is not only counter-productive, more it importantly it is a complete betrayal of the rank and file. The energy and finances of the only mass working class organization in the United States are being sold out to the so-called ‘liberal’ representatives of the capitalist class. This is a situation which is completely in contradiction with the class interests of the American workers. The rank and file members of the trade unions are expected to not only hand over most of their lifetime in work to the bosses, but through the actions of their own leadership must give up their political independence as well.

The Democrats have already proven in hundreds of incidents that they cannot be trusted to look out for the workers. They refuse to even fulfill one tenth of the meager promises they make! This leaves the Labor Movement only one alternative – a complete declaration of political independence. And what better opportunity exists for such a move as now?

The Democratic Party has proved its utter worthlessness as far as the working class is concerned. It cannot oppose Bush, on the contrary it backs the Republicans in every issue of major importance; i.e. "War on Terror," the invasion of Iraq, Homeland Security etc. The electorate has shown that it cannot see much of a real difference between the two parties, with over 60% not bothering to vote at all. The Democrats themselves are in disarray after their defeat, and even AFL-CIO President John Sweeney, nominally their best supporter, has been forced to come out in mild criticism of them.

The only political alternative for the US working class and its trade unions is class independence. Signing over our fate to the representatives of the capitalists is a sure recipe for disaster. Only a mass party of Labor, based on the trade unions and armed with a program of socialist demands can fight back in the interests of the hundreds of millions of workers in the USA. Only with such a party can the process of falling wages, dropping living standards and shrinking rights be halted. The Democrats will never be capable or willing to do such things – even in Mr. Sweeney’s wildest dreams.

The working class has to become aware of not only its economic power, but its political power as well. It has to be a class by itself and for itself. Once this process has begun, endless frontiers will open up on the horizon

 

[Jhhnn]

Just look at France for what an extremely progressive tax rate does. And saying a violent upheaval would tank the stock market is putting it mildly. It would more than likely be the great depression x2.

What does that extremely progressive tax rate do, exactly? And how would that be different from much more progressive US tax rates prior to Reagan?

 

[Matt1970]

What does that extremely progressive tax rate do, exactly? And how would that be different from much more progressive US tax rates prior to Reagan?

All progressive tax rates do is grow government. We still had decline in the middle class during those much higher tax rates most namely during the 70's. I have shown it to you numerous times. We can try and supplement the lower incomes even more than we do now with higher tax rates, and even if they work all they are doing is treating the symptoms, not the illness.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

It's how the Dems keep their base fired up. For you to see how shitty things are for you they have to compare what you have to someone who has substantially more than you. All of a sudden your house seems smaller and more run down, your car seems older, your job seems harder and those at the top seem to have what they do by taking it from those at the bottom.

My job is harder and I haven't had a raise in 5 years. The bonus system was changed by the company so only the top couple tiers can get them and they aren't based on sales but on reducing controllable expenses, namely payroll. That means in those 5 years staffing has been cut to about a third. But of course things aren't going right so they are coming up with new programs to make customers happier and when they don't work they don't give raises because we're bad employees. Three of us died in our region last year while working. Some of us have a change of clothing in case they don't make it to the bathroom in time. We're legally entitled to a lunch, but to take it means complaints and complaints mean termination and the state really doesn't care. People are literally being worked to death and the market means you aren't going to get a job elsewhere. I'm sure my situation is not unique.

Now what part of that seems like "seem" to you?

 

[Matt1970]

My job is harder and I haven't had a raise in 5 years. The bonus system was changed by the company so only the top couple tiers can get them and they aren't based on sales but on reducing controllable expenses, namely payroll. That means in those 5 years staffing has been cut to about a third. But of course things aren't going right so they are coming up with new programs to make customers happier and when they don't work they don't give raises because we're bad employees. Three of us died in our region last year while working. Some of us have a change of clothing in case they don't make it to the bathroom in time. We're legally entitled to a lunch, but to take it means complaints and complaints mean termination and the state really doesn't care. People are literally being worked to death and the market means you aren't going to get a job elsewhere. I'm sure my situation is not unique.

Now what part of that seems like "seem" to you?

It sounds like it would be bad to name who you work for, but what do you do for a living? What it sounds like what is happening to you are is not the norm.

 

[Attic]

My job is harder and I haven't had a raise in 5 years. The bonus system was changed by the company so only the top couple tiers can get them and they aren't based on sales but on reducing controllable expenses, namely payroll. That means in those 5 years staffing has been cut to about a third. But of course things aren't going right so they are coming up with new programs to make customers happier and when they don't work they don't give raises because we're bad employees. Three of us died in our region last year while working. Some of us have a change of clothing in case they don't make it to the bathroom in time. We're legally entitled to a lunch, but to take it means complaints and complaints mean termination and the state really doesn't care. People are literally being worked to death and the market means you aren't going to get a job elsewhere. I'm sure my situation is not unique.

Now what part of that seems like "seem" to you?

Woa, wtf? This doesn't sound like any part of American i'm aware of. I've shoveled plenty of shit, but nothing close to that type of condition.

Roofing in summer is my motherfuckthisshit, but i'd do it over being worried about shitting my pants.

Have lots of respect for your posts, didn't know you were cut from that kind of frame with some of your insights.

 

[Jhhnn]

All progressive tax rates do is grow government. We still had decline in the middle class during those much higher tax rates most namely during the 70's. I have shown it to you numerous times. We can try and supplement the lower incomes even more than we do now with higher tax rates, and even if they work all they are doing is treating the symptoms, not the illness.

You referenced France, not Right Libertopian ideology. What's wrong with France?

Yes, we did have minor decline among the middle class during the 70's, after the Kennedy tax cuts. Basically, you claim that pouring gasoline on a fire won't make it worse.

 

[alcoholbob]

7 of the 10 richest counties in the country surrounding DC not found.

Net worth maybe? No, thats not it either.

Where'd you get your stats?

From the U.S Census Bureau, but its data from 2012.

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/se...unties-in-the-u-s-are-in-washington-d-c-area/

You can see here from the 2012 Census Washington Metro Area has having the highest median income:

www.census.gov/prod/2013pubs/acsbr12-02.pdf

According to latest data from the American Community Survey (which the U.S Census Bureau uses for compiling its reports), 7 of the top 14 counties (and 5 of the top 10) in household median income are in the Washington Metro Area:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-income_counties_in_the_United_States

 

[OverVolt]

Stop posting random statistics. Lol.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

My job is harder and I haven't had a raise in 5 years. The bonus system was changed by the company so only the top couple tiers can get them and they aren't based on sales but on reducing controllable expenses, namely payroll. That means in those 5 years staffing has been cut to about a third. But of course things aren't going right so they are coming up with new programs to make customers happier and when they don't work they don't give raises because we're bad employees. Three of us died in our region last year while working. Some of us have a change of clothing in case they don't make it to the bathroom in time. We're legally entitled to a lunch, but to take it means complaints and complaints mean termination and the state really doesn't care. People are literally being worked to death and the market means you aren't going to get a job elsewhere. I'm sure my situation is not unique.

Now what part of that seems like "seem" to you?

Sorry, but it is time for another job. I don't believe the job market is THAT bad but obviously I'm not familiar with the job market in your field (pharmacy, right?). There is no reason at all to stay in job like that.