Americans Strongly Dislike Political Correctness Culture

[realibrad]

Hey DJ Quibbles, how do you quantify reasonable?

Something that has a foundation in logic but may be flawed to perception or other limiting factors.

 

[realibrad]

Hey DJ Quibbles, how do you quantify reasonable?

Or do you literally mean put a value to like a number?

 

[Jhhnn]

So to you, examples over a period of time, over a large set of locations is me going to such lengths. So, you would rather examples in a small geographic area over a short period of time. Do you realize how silly that sounds?

As for reducing reasonable speech, I provided one. Ben Shapiro is a hard core conservative. He is also a person that does reasonable debates and tries to engage the Left. When he went to Berkeley he needed 600 officers because the PC side lost their minds.

I think the problem you have is that you see PC as simply not being offensive and taking others feelings into consideration. That is wrong and that is likely why you can't understand this.

Only an arrogant ass like Shapiro would insist on appearing in person at Berkeley, the home of the radical left since the 60's. He knew what to expect but he was happy to have the university spend $600K to protect his sorry ass. It's great publicity & it's free.

So persecuted! Never mind that he's spoken in a variety of other venues all across the country.

 

[realibrad]

Only an arrogant ass like Shapiro would insist on appearing in person at Berkeley, the home of the radical left since the 60's. He knew what to expect but he was happy to have the university spend $600K to protect his sorry ass. It's great publicity & it's free.

So persecuted! Never mind that he's spoken in a variety of other venues all across the country.

So, how many examples of the "radical left" before you admit it's part of it? I'm not saying it's all, but it does seem apparent that it's there.

Also, that radical left school was the bedrock of the modern free speech movement.

As for a variety of other venues lol. He was literally prevented from speaking at one place because of safety. He had to do an off site location.

 

[Jhhnn]

So, how many examples of the "radical left" before you admit it's part of it? I'm not saying it's all, but it does seem apparent that it's there.

Also, that radical left school was the bedrock of the modern free speech movement.

As for a variety of other venues lol. He was literally prevented from speaking at one place because of safety. He had to do an off site location.

Yeh, a guy who called for sedition laws sets himself up as a champion of free speech, not to mention all the other really shitty things he's said. Drawing protesters is his biggest claim to fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro#Views

 

[Starbuck1975]

Why make it personal, when it isn't? It's not you and me doing this. It's larger groups of which you and I are not even remotely significant factors. And do let me know when oppressive people really take time to listen to the subjugated.

At best, the oppressed are heard. But the oppressors are not listening. Most in the dominant class won't even acknowledge their tacit role in the oppression. Always, the endless cries (to drown out the voices of the oppressed) mewling "I'm not racist! Don't call me that horrible name! My precious feelings!"

It’s not personal. We may not be part of the larger groups, but people like you and I can do far more to move the needle. Perhaps its simple things like volunteering to mentor underpriviliged kids to pursue STEM fields, or making our social networks available to under represented minorities, or volunteering our time to charities. Not out of guilt or obligation, but out of recognition that we are in a position of privilege because someone at some point lifted us up, and now its time to return the favor.

 

[realibrad]

Yeh, a guy who called for sedition laws sets himself up as a champion of free speech, not to mention all the other really shitty things he's said. Drawing protesters is his biggest claim to fame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Shapiro#Views

What does that have to do with the violence? You just tried to disprove that PC culture is more than being nice by saying that he is a hypocrite.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Is it okay to use the word master for hard drives?

Looking at my UEFI I see that I still have a master hard drive.

What about chairs being too small for fat people and thus offensive?

I have not seen any major revamp in how chairs are made.

What about banning clapping because it excludes deaf people?

Last I checked people still clap, TV shows still have clapping in their soundtracks, and it is still considered normal, and expected behavior.

Not world ending, but, very stupid and great examples of how dumb PC culture can be. Its not just about making people nicer.

None of those things actually happened. Sure people proposed them, and society said no. Under some circumstances, they might taken up. If your audience is mainly deaf maybe don't expect clapping. but this is not PC culture, this is just culture. This is how it works, a groups of people make a suggestion, and people either agree and society changes to accommodate, or they don't and not much happens. Everything you just posted is an example of not much happening. Why is PC culture such a problem if when it is actually stupid we all just ignore it?

 

[realibrad]

Looking at my UEFI I see that I still have a master hard drive.


I have not seen any major revamp in how chairs are made.



Last I checked people still clap, TV shows still have clapping in their soundtracks, and it is still considered normal, and expected behavior.



None of those things actually happened. Sure people proposed them, and society said no. Under some circumstances, they might taken up. If your audience is mainly deaf maybe don't expect clapping. but this is not PC culture, this is just culture. This is how it works, a groups of people make a suggestion, and people either agree and society changes to accommodate, or they don't and not much happens. Everything you just posted is an example of not much happening. Why is PC culture such a problem if when it is actually stupid we all just ignore it?

2 reasons.

Its growing and had changed some things.
People are becoming more accepting of PC stupidity.

Now, you are falling victim to your bias just like others have. That PC culture outputs things like Evergreen, or Berkeley where violence happens. PC culture has a foundation that is not just "don't be mean". If it were limited to people making suggestions and society deciding to pick it up or not, then totally fine. The problem is that is very far from what is happening.

 

[SMOGZINN]

2 reasons.

Its growing and had changed some things.
People are becoming more accepting of PC stupidity.

Now, you are falling victim to your bias just like others have. That PC culture outputs things like Evergreen, or Berkeley where violence happens. PC culture has a foundation that is not just "don't be mean". If it were limited to people making suggestions and society deciding to pick it up or not, then totally fine. The problem is that is very far from what is happening.

How so? Sure in some limited places under limited circumstances you have extremes, but that is true about almost any topic you can name. Overall when people suggests something stupid in the name of political correctness society gets a good laugh at it and continues on ignoring it, as is clearly shown by every example put forward. Anything that society does not ignore is things that people have decided is indeed a problem and have decided to change to accommodate. That is literally how society works. This is nothing new. This is nothing unusual. The only thing new is we gave this age old process a new name.

 

[realibrad]

How so? Sure in some limited places under limited circumstances you have extremes, but that is true about almost any topic you can name. Overall when people suggests something stupid in the name of political correctness society gets a good laugh at it and continues on ignoring it, as is clearly shown by every example put forward. Anything that society does not ignore is things that people have decided is indeed a problem and have decided to change to accommodate. That is literally how society works. This is nothing new. This is nothing unusual. The only thing new is we gave this age old process a new name.

NAMBLA is a horrible little group, but, they are so extreme and so small that they are not a worry to society in general. We agree with that idea.

The problem with PC culture is that its becoming far more popular.

Being PC used to be about trying not to be offensive. The problem is that is all subjective, and, people do not agree on what is or is not. The Right has shifted and was very much about stopping people from offending their religious beliefs. Now, they are taking up the side that says it should be okay to be offensive. Conversely the Left has flipped in the exact opposite way.

So, PC culture is not really about trying to be less offensive, as the Left has no problem offending people that are on the Right. What PC culture is doing is deciding what selected groups should be protected in terms of being offended. That is too much power and was the foundation of having very open laws about speech.

The good news, is that people are starting to see PC culture for what it is, and are starting to push back against it. But, if the argument is that PC culture is just about being nice, that is factually wrong.

 

[jackstar7]

It’s not personal. We may not be part of the larger groups, but people like you and I can do far more to move the needle. Perhaps its simple things like volunteering to mentor underpriviliged kids to pursue STEM fields, or making our social networks available to under represented minorities, or volunteering our time to charities. Not out of guilt or obligation, but out of recognition that we are in a position of privilege because someone at some point lifted us up, and now its time to return the favor.

It sounds like you want to do things that you can see and feel. Acting locally, as it were.

That sounds nice for you.

 

[jackstar7]

Something that has a foundation in logic but may be flawed to perception or other limiting factors.

I'm not as familiar with his arguments as it sounds like you are.

Can you pick a couple examples of arguments he has put forward that meet your standard?

 

[realibrad]

I'm not as familiar with his arguments as it sounds like you are.

Can you pick a couple examples of arguments he has put forward that meet your standard?

You likely know him better than I do.

Post 131 seems like something reasonable. I can't view his profile so I can't easily see his posts.

What might be easier is for you to give me something you think he said that was unreasonable and see if I could pick away at it.

 

[ivwshane]

NAMBLA is a horrible little group, but, they are so extreme and so small that they are not a worry to society in general. We agree with that idea.

The problem with PC culture is that its becoming far more popular.

Being PC used to be about trying not to be offensive. The problem is that is all subjective, and, people do not agree on what is or is not. The Right has shifted and was very much about stopping people from offending their religious beliefs. Now, they are taking up the side that says it should be okay to be offensive. Conversely the Left has flipped in the exact opposite way.

So, PC culture is not really about trying to be less offensive, as the Left has no problem offending people that are on the Right. What PC culture is doing is deciding what selected groups should be protected in terms of being offended. That is too much power and was the foundation of having very open laws about speech.

The good news, is that people are starting to see PC culture for what it is, and are starting to push back against it. But, if the argument is that PC culture is just about being nice, that is factually wrong.

I don't agree with your premise. What metric are you using to determine PC culture is becoming more popular? Certainly not polls as this thread says exactly the opposite of your claim.

Sounds to me like someone is suffering from confirmation bias.

 

[realibrad]

I don't agree with your premise. What metric are you using to determine PC culture is becoming more popular? Certainly not polls as this thread says exactly the opposite of your claim.

Sounds to me like someone is suffering from confirmation bias.

You cant see how the number of PC people could grow, and, the number of anti-PC people could grow?

The reason for that is not everyone is pro or anti PC.

 

[ivwshane]

You cant see how the number of PC people could grow, and, the number of anti-PC people could grow?

The reason for that is not everyone is pro or anti PC.

You didn't answer the question.

 

[realibrad]

You didn't answer the question.

Oh, then the measure is largely anecdotal. The fact that comedians in large part avoid college campuses as too many are now offended.

To me, how the comedy community is reacting is a good indication. Comedians historically have been at the forefront of talking about topics that make people uncomfortable. The reason is that much of comedy is about finding a way to confront topics through humor. When it gets to the points where even comedians are afraid to talk about many topics then I think its reasonable to draw some conclusions.

I also want to point out that its not always a Left thing either. The Right for a very long time tried to prohibit topics that they found offensive. It largely revolved around their religious beliefs. When they started losing that battle, they turned it around and made it a pejorative.

The Left being the side of Free Speech was in opposition to the PC nature of the Right. That makes it even more disappointing that the shift now is to the Left. Its not illogical though.

The Left is largely seen as the party of compassion and as such, offending people usually goes against their beliefs. So, when the Right dropped their efforts the Left dropped theirs of Free Speech.

I think I answered your question at the start of this though. Its largely my opinion as I know of no study that has measured PC culture. I would say that there is some research on how the Left is becoming more anti-Free Speech which I think is connected.

 

[brycejones]

From the recent comments in this thread I can only assume much quibbling is occurring.

 

[jackstar7]

You likely know him better than I do.

Post 131 seems like something reasonable. I can't view his profile so I can't easily see his posts.

What might be easier is for you to give me something you think he said that was unreasonable and see if I could pick away at it.

Huh? Did Starbuck crib from Shapiro? Or was it not clear I was asking about Shapiro?

 

[jackstar7]

Oh, then the measure is largely anecdotal. The fact that comedians in large part avoid college campuses as too many are now offended.

This is not correct.

There are also anecdotes saying that those comedians don't bother with colleges because colleges can't pay to their level.

The offensiveness/speech comments are just smoke.

 

[realibrad]

Huh? Did Starbuck crib from Shapiro? Or was it not clear I was asking about Shapiro?

I have not been following your discussion. I'm about to get on a flight, so Ill see if I can find what you two said later.

 

[jackstar7]

I have not been following your discussion. I'm about to get on a flight, so Ill see if I can find what you two said later.

Neat. I was talking about you citing Shapiro as someone who put forward reasonable arguments.

Circle back to that and please present them.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I don't agree with your premise. What metric are you using to determine PC culture is becoming more popular? Certainly not polls as this thread says exactly the opposite of your claim.

Sounds to me like someone is suffering from confirmation bias.

No, he always has feels that tell him he's correct. He just *knows* what the truth is and the rest of us are simple fools.

 

[Jhhnn]

What does that have to do with the violence? You just tried to disprove that PC culture is more than being nice by saying that he is a hypocrite.

And you tried to set him up as being persecuted when controversy is what he lives for. He's like the Alt-Right- he starts shit just to get the attention. He's not a victim of violence- He's a beneficiary.