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Americans overwhelmingly do NOT want Roe v. Wade overturned

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Originally posted by: maluckey
Deal Monkey

Talk about twisting a poll to suit your POV!

Only 20 percent want it always legal...what's your point?? The majority of Americans want to get it either on the books or off the table. A whopping 55 percent want abortion restrictions in place.

Well, if you would have READ my post, you'd KNOW what my point is. ONLY 20% want abortion to be ALWAYS ILLEGAL. ONLY 29% want to overturn Roe v Wade. That's an EXTREME MINORITY. I'm not twisting anything except your panties. 😛

Oh and by the way, there are ALREADY restrictions in place. In a round-about way, that's what I was getting at -- that the GOP can really only chip away at abortion and get away with it, but as soon as they tried to overturn Roe v Wade and/or make abortion illegal, they'd have a tremendous voter backlash on their hands.

That seems simple enough to understand ... but I may be giving you too much credit. 😉
 
If only 20% of americans thought that blacks should have equal rights, does that mean we should repeal the civil rights act?
 
Originally posted by: Train
If only 20% of americans thought that blacks should have equal rights, does that mean we should repeal the civil rights act?

This doesn't mean it's right, but that it would be dangerous politically for zealots to try and push through. Part of me wants it to happen so the backlash will be huge.
 
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: judasmachine
If they overturn it, and it becomes a states rights then there are going to be alot more trips to California or New York or wherever (or Juarez, Mexico) by pregnent women.

Well, if you're going to committ legal murder, you should at least have to put a LITTLE effort into it, don't you think?

Yes, let's make people drive around the country to seek out various medical procedures, make the laws as confusing as possible so people aren't sure what's allowed where, and criminalize whatever makes us slightly uncomfortable.
Yeah, I'm sure the Germans living along the roads to Auschwitz were slightly uncomfortable too, but what was going on there was legal too in Germany at the time.

We have our mandatory holocaust reference! Congratualtions, you have now lost some credibility while understating the horror of nazi germany!

Yep, once the holocaust references start is about the time I quit the discussion, as it has then officially passed any sense of logical debate.

Feel the same way when a Democratic Senator brings up the Holocaust in relation to Guantanamo Bay or are you just being a self-righteous hypocrit? Hell, use slavery as an example if you want. It's the same idea.....dehumanize somebody and rob them of their rights for your own damn self-centered reasons.

The Holocaust parallel is raised to establish a point. The legality of abortion hinges on whether or not an unborn baby is considered a human being. That's what needs to be argued, but nobody has the balls to take it on.
 
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

The Holocaust parallel is raised to establish a point. The legality of abortion hinges on whether or not an unborn baby is considered a human being. That's what needs to be argued, but nobody has the balls to take it on.

Ok fine, whether or not a fetus is considered human could be debated, but by jumping right to the holocaust reference you are immediately ruling that debate over, declaring yourself victor, and equating everyone that disagrees with you with nazi guards at Auschwitz.


 
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Originally posted by: tss4
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: Slick5150
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: judasmachine
If they overturn it, and it becomes a states rights then there are going to be alot more trips to California or New York or wherever (or Juarez, Mexico) by pregnent women.

Well, if you're going to committ legal murder, you should at least have to put a LITTLE effort into it, don't you think?

Yes, let's make people drive around the country to seek out various medical procedures, make the laws as confusing as possible so people aren't sure what's allowed where, and criminalize whatever makes us slightly uncomfortable.
Yeah, I'm sure the Germans living along the roads to Auschwitz were slightly uncomfortable too, but what was going on there was legal too in Germany at the time.

We have our mandatory holocaust reference! Congratualtions, you have now lost some credibility while understating the horror of nazi germany!

Yep, once the holocaust references start is about the time I quit the discussion, as it has then officially passed any sense of logical debate.

Feel the same way when a Democratic Senator brings up the Holocaust in relation to Guantanamo Bay or are you just being a self-righteous hypocrit? Hell, use slavery as an example if you want. It's the same idea.....dehumanize somebody and rob them of their rights for your own damn self-centered reasons.

The Holocaust parallel is raised to establish a point. The legality of abortion hinges on whether or not an unborn baby is considered a human being. That's what needs to be argued, but nobody has the balls to take it on.

Oh, I think that's ridiculous too. Its been done to death by both Democrats and Republicans and is as sickining as the partisan bickering here. And you are absolultely wrong... whether or not a fetus is considered a humn being has been argued to DEATH on the forum. And it hasn't changed anyones opinion. It tends to degrade into partisan bickering by both sides with acuasations of genocide or some other ridiculous comment. You loose credibility. I've been blasted by both the left adn the right for holding you up to higher standards than your current level of debate, so care to call me a hypocrit again?

Anyone that uses the Nazi reference, isn't interested in a debate.
 
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Feel the same way when a Democratic Senator brings up the Holocaust in relation to Guantanamo Bay or are you just being a self-righteous hypocrit? Hell, use slavery as an example if you want. It's the same idea.....dehumanize somebody and rob them of their rights for your own damn self-centered reasons.

Durbin never mentioned the Holocaust. And I see you've been listening to too much Santorum going around comparing abortion to both the Holocaust and slavery.

The Holocaust parallel is raised to establish a point.
Really?? And what point would that be??

The legality of abortion hinges on whether or not an unborn baby is considered a human being. That's what needs to be argued, but nobody has the balls to take it on.
An unborn baby is not a human being.
I assume that you have the same rightous condemnation of in-virtro fertalization. Certainly someone with your absolute beliefs would be against these methods.
 
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
New polling numbers suggest that those Americans vehemently opposed to Roe v. Wade and by extension, abortion, are in the extreme minority.

CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll

"Do you think abortions should be legal under any circumstances, legal only under certain circumstances, or illegal in all circumstances?"

Always legal: 24%; Sometimes legal: 55%; Always illegal: 20%; Unsure: 1%

"If one of the U.S. Supreme Court justices retired, would you want the new Supreme Court justice to be someone who would vote to overturn Roe v. Wade -- the decision that legalized abortion -- or vote to uphold it?"

Vote to overturn: 29%; Vote to uphold: 65%; Unsure: 6%

Furthermore, it shows that President and the Supreme Court only have a mandate to limit abortion via laws like the "partial birth abortion ban" and the "parental notification" type laws, but not a mandate to outlaw abortions completely.

This only shows that most Americans are way too stupid to understand how Roe v. Wade was yet another example of the Supreme Court overstepping its authority. And ~30 years later, people wonder why liberal justices decided the government can take your home for practically any reason. Live by judicial activism, die by judicial activism.
 
Originally posted by: judasmachine
I was just stating what'd happen. I don't think it should be illegal myself, as there is no way to stop it. in the first place. Kind of like pot, you can't stop it, and very large groups participate in it's use, so why is it illegal?

You need to rethink that position; you can say regarding practically any crime (murder, for example; there's still plenty of those) that 'there's no way to stop it', but that's no reason to legalize it.
 
I like states rights too... but some things are considered so fundamental to be federal / American issues. Having control over your body seems like it fits the bill of an American issue.

control over your body, the right to privacy, was something secured by the roe v. wade decision. this was a case of judicial activism, trying to reinterpret the constitution to say something it does not say. this is why judge borq was refused, b/c as a strict constitutionalist he read the constitution for what it actually reads, not for what he wanted it to read.

do i believe in the right to privacy? yes, and so did judge borq. its worth adding to the constitution, a new amendment...

back to the issue of control over the body as it relates to abortion... it depends on your definition of life, again doesn't it? if a woman has the right to her body, and can terminate a pregnancy afer 8 months, should she have that right? most reasonable americans say no. should a woman have the right to have an abortion after 1-2 months, most reasonable americans say "perhaps." its just such a difficult dilemma, b/c of all the advancements we've made in the realm of science and medicine over the last 30+ years since roe v. wade.

we know somuch more now about how and when unborn children develop in the womb. when there is a heart-beat, when their is brain function, when they are sensitive to pain. regardless of the religion issue (some teach that all unborn are life or potental life and thus are sacred), the science issue should play a role in determining a new code of ethics for americans concerning abortion. this is why it should not even be a court issue. it should be a legislative issue, probably at the state level.

that being said, as a society, and i know bush gets ridiculed for saying this, we should be trying to foster in our culture a culture of life, that in our country we should strive to have as few abortions as possible. that's the idea, and i, like bush, am an idealist.
 
"Live by judicial activism, die by judicial activism."

amen. let the US congress and the state congresses amend the constitution if they so desire, not 9 "monarchs" sitting on the bench.

as i said, the right to privacy should be included in the constitution, let's pass an actual amendment though. it will pass.
 
Originally posted by: johnnobts
"Live by judicial activism, die by judicial activism."

amen. let the US congress and the state congresses amend the constitution if they so desire, not 9 "monarchs" sitting on the bench.

as i said, the right to privacy should be included in the constitution, let's pass an actual amendment though. it will pass.

Maybe, but I'd have to see the actual text of any proposed amendment first. The problem with any 'right to privacy' is that the phrase itself if vague. A vague law is not a good thing.
 
2005 LA times poll taken 2005-JAN-14 to 18, shows 41 percent favor making abortion illegal with few exceptions. Polls show what the pollster is paid to show. For every poll, I can find one that is different. The truth lies in-between the extremes.
 
well sure, it would have to be hammered out. but better still to have it worked out by a body of legislators representative of the people, than by 9, right?
 
yeah, statistics can be manipulated for the sake of anyone's argument, to the point that they can become meaningless. 4 out of 7 people know this...
 
Originally posted by: maluckey
2005 LA times poll taken 2005-JAN-14 to 18, shows 41 percent favor making abortion illegal with few exceptions. Polls show what the pollster is paid to show. For every poll, I can find one that is different. The truth lies in-between the extremes.

No, you can't find a poll that will say anything unless they falsified data or used poor methods. Your poll and most polls are consistent with the following:

The majority of people frown on abortion, but think it should be legal SOMETIMES. The people who want abortion outlawed completely (read certain religious types) are in the minority as are people that think abortion is okay whenever.
 
Originally posted by: Crimson
I'm a strong believer in State's rights.. Why is abortion a federal issue? Its not.. let the states decide.

I'm a firm believer in personal rights. Why is abortion a government issue? Shouldn't a woman and her physician be able to make the proper choice?

 
Originally posted by: maluckey
Deal Monkey

Talk about twisting a poll to suit your POV!

Only 20 percent want it always legal...what's your point?? The majority of Americans want to get it either on the books or off the table. A whopping 55 percent want abortion restrictions in place.

IMHO, most Americans are like me. They fundamentally believe in a woman's right to choose . . . but would greatly prefer them (and their partners) to choose conception control or adoption. Regardless, we don't think the government (state or federal) should be making onerous rules and certainly not prohibition.

Abortion has NEVER been popular and it never will be. But the vocal minority clamoring for prohibition will ALWAYS be the minority. Despite your protestations, most people don't want abortion restrictions per se . . . but everyone advocates fewer abortions. Most thinking people realize you solve this problem by preventing unwanted pregnancies . . . NOT meddling after the fact.
 
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Originally posted by: maluckey
Deal Monkey

Talk about twisting a poll to suit your POV!

Only 20 percent want it always legal...what's your point?? The majority of Americans want to get it either on the books or off the table. A whopping 55 percent want abortion restrictions in place.

IMHO, most Americans are like me. They fundamentally believe in a woman's right to choose . . . but would greatly prefer them (and their partners) to choose conception control or adoption. Regardless, we don't think the government (state or federal) should be making onerous rules and certainly not prohibition.

Abortion has NEVER been popular and it never will be. But the vocal minority clamoring for prohibition will ALWAYS be the minority. Despite your protestations, most people don't want abortion restrictions per se . . . but everyone advocates fewer abortions. Most thinking people realize you solve this problem by preventing unwanted pregnancies . . . NOT meddling after the fact.

Right. Your view is similar to the view of most Americans. Maluckey is not grasping the nuances in most of the polls' answers. Only about 20% want abortion to be ALWAYS legal. He acts like it's a surpise that 55 percent want abortion restrictions in place. WE ALREADY HAVE ABORTION RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE. This is not really the issue.
 
Abortion has NEVER been popular and it never will be. But the vocal minority clamoring for prohibition will ALWAYS be the minority. Despite your protestations, most people don't want abortion restrictions per se . . . but everyone advocates fewer abortions. Most thinking people realize you solve this problem by preventing unwanted pregnancies . . . NOT meddling after the fact.

exactly
 
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
but everyone advocates fewer abortions.

Why would 'everyone' care? If it's legal, who cares how many occur? Does the increase in, say, body piercings bother you as well?
 
I think this is a non-issue. If you polled the United States, I think you would find a 50-50 split pro and con. At this point it would be difficult to stop or change. I think it is not worth the fight it would take to change it. There are other things that are a little more important that could be changed or worked on like term limits for judges.
 
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