Americans Being Driven Out of Careers in Science and Engineering?

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

 

[rpanic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

There is a high demand for teachers everywhere. How can your wife be making minimum wage that does not sound right. I could quit and get a job delivering pizzas tomorrow for much more. Maybe she has no ambition and is content where she is.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
At the risk of making even more racist statement based on limited personal knowledge I also want to point out that while most Asian student I have know had very good GPAs they were poor at actually doing any sort of abstract thinking. Again, based on limited personal experiences, Asian people are VERY good at solving math problems or engineering problems out of a textbook, but when you give them a real world problem they just sort of sit there and stare into space because there is no best answer or even well defined math they are required to follow. Asian engineers are great at solving the same types of problems over and over again, but not so good at solving unique problems from first principles.

As per the post above this one, an equipment technician is exactly the type of job I would expect Asian people to excel at which might be part of the reason why the poster is fealing pressure on his job, if you want to be relatively immune to having your job sent to some far off Asian land than I would say one way would be to get a job that does not involve problems that can be solved with a computer or calculator. For example I worked with tons of engineers in my summer internship whose job was managing the construction of substations, this required not only understanding the blueprints, but also organizing subcontractors and parts manufacturers to ensure everything was running smoothly, in a way this might seem like a "management" type job, but it was entry level engineers with <3 years of work that were managing this and it took not only "book learning", but also social skills to be able to deal with engineers and construction foremen from several other companies. Personally the job I just got concerns the construction of power plants here in the ol USA, hard to export that since they actually expect the engineers to go down to the plant and SEE that the things they designed were built correctly which isn't exactly something you can do from India.

Asian engineers good at solving the same types of problems? You gotta be freaking kidding me. This is such a racist BS that has nothing to do with the topic. There are all sorts of Asian engineers, from entry level to executive that runs a company like Yahoo, nVidia. There were so much innovation in the past few years in the computer hardware industry, much of it comes from the creativity of Asian engineers. Asian may look timid and not speak up in the meeting because of the language and culture difference, but they certain are capable of solving real world problem, giving you find the right type of people.

Aside from that, I agree with you that if you don't want your work outsourced, you need to have the skills and do jobs that cannot be done thousands of miles away. Things like understanding the business, talking to the client, and not just write code, draw design diagram, or create spreadsheets.

An regarding the OP, American are not being driven out of careers in Science and Engineering, American CHOOSE to be in careers outside of Science and Engineering. The unemployment rate in Science and Engineering has been documented to be almost non-existent even with all the off shoring going on. If anyone who want to be in this career, they will find jobs. It's going to take lots of study, logical thinking and the career may not be glamorous, but the job is gonna be there, period.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rpanic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

There is a high demand for teachers everywhere. How can your wife be making minimum wage that does not sound right.

I could quit and get a job delivering pizzas tomorrow for much more.

Maybe she has no ambition and is content where she is.

Excuse me. She taught for over 10 years in New Orleans until Katrina hit.

You may want your wife delivering pizza's but I sure don't think that is safe.

Besides with the price of gas how the hell do you make more than minimum?

This minimum wage job actually has health coverage, something we were not able to get with me working as a contractor.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: rpanic
There is a high demand for teachers everywhere.

Show us where they are hiring teachers.

Don't forget you have to go through a 6 month certification process that costs vary from state to state too.

She applied for her Oklahoma certification in February and it did not come through in time for class start in August. Came in late September.

She then applied to all the schools within 50 miles and they all said they have their teachers for the year.

So before you go spouting statments like above do some research.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: GenHoth

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

My old high school is hiring, hell I think most schools are these days. Its tough to find qualified teachers!

Are you sure? What school is it, did you actually ask them?

People talk a good game here that all the schools are hiring but when she goes door to door they say they are not.

There seems to be a perseption amongst the general population that schools are short handed and hiring but when you get right down to it they are not.

Also what she found is that many of the schools especially here are using un-certified teachers for much lower pay. They don't want to increase their payroll with actual qualified teachers if not forced to.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: BrownTown
At the risk of making even more racist statement based on limited personal knowledge I also want to point out that while most Asian student I have know had very good GPAs they were poor at actually doing any sort of abstract thinking. Again, based on limited personal experiences, Asian people are VERY good at solving math problems or engineering problems out of a textbook, but when you give them a real world problem they just sort of sit there and stare into space because there is no best answer or even well defined math they are required to follow. Asian engineers are great at solving the same types of problems over and over again, but not so good at solving unique problems from first principles.

As per the post above this one, an equipment technician is exactly the type of job I would expect Asian people to excel at which might be part of the reason why the poster is fealing pressure on his job, if you want to be relatively immune to having your job sent to some far off Asian land than I would say one way would be to get a job that does not involve problems that can be solved with a computer or calculator. For example I worked with tons of engineers in my summer internship whose job was managing the construction of substations, this required not only understanding the blueprints, but also organizing subcontractors and parts manufacturers to ensure everything was running smoothly, in a way this might seem like a "management" type job, but it was entry level engineers with <3 years of work that were managing this and it took not only "book learning", but also social skills to be able to deal with engineers and construction foremen from several other companies. Personally the job I just got concerns the construction of power plants here in the ol USA, hard to export that since they actually expect the engineers to go down to the plant and SEE that the things they designed were built correctly which isn't exactly something you can do from India.

This is my experience as well. I was hired on once as a software engineer in a company full of Asians with advanced engineering degrees. My boss, who was going to hire me anyways, put me in front of one of these guys for a one on one interview. He busts out these pointless logic problems and math problems that only a college trained engineer would know. I graduated MIS, so I didnt get a damn one of them. After I was hired and got into the code, it was bar none the worst code I have ever seen. These guys didnt think outside the box at all. They would never stick their neck out and say something has to change. They only tried to do their job and not get noticed. This has been my experience with pretty much all Asians over here on Visas. I'm thankfully no longer with that company.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

WTF? I moved my family here with no money saved up. I quit my $6/hour job and took the last paycheck to drive here. I looked for a job the following monday and landed one within 3 days. I stayed here while my wife and daughter stayed back until I had enough money for her to quit her job and move down here. In the mean time I happened to land her a job with a company I had interviewed at but didn't get the job. So yeah, it CAN be done with no money - I've done it.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

WTF? I moved my family here with no money saved up. I quit my $6/hour job and took the last paycheck to drive here. I looked for a job the following monday and landed one within 3 days. I stayed here while my wife and daughter stayed back until I had enough money for her to quit her job and move down here. In the mean time I happened to land her a job with a company I had interviewed at but didn't get the job. So yeah, it CAN be done with no money - I've done it.

Well good for you superman.

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

WTF? I moved my family here with no money saved up. I quit my $6/hour job and took the last paycheck to drive here. I looked for a job the following monday and landed one within 3 days. I stayed here while my wife and daughter stayed back until I had enough money for her to quit her job and move down here. In the mean time I happened to land her a job with a company I had interviewed at but didn't get the job. So yeah, it CAN be done with no money - I've done it.

Yeah, but you dont have the whole world stacked against you like Dave does. How is Dave supposed to make a buck when the evil Republicans and corporations keep him down?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

WTF? I moved my family here with no money saved up. I quit my $6/hour job and took the last paycheck to drive here. I looked for a job the following monday and landed one within 3 days. I stayed here while my wife and daughter stayed back until I had enough money for her to quit her job and move down here. In the mean time I happened to land her a job with a company I had interviewed at but didn't get the job. So yeah, it CAN be done with no money - I've done it.

Yeah, but you dont have the whole world stacked against you like Dave does. How is Dave supposed to make a buck when the evil Republicans and corporations keep him down?

Very true. I just got off the phone after being turned down for $9.51hr call center rep position at AT&T. This after I passed a two hour test, then a two hour interview last week.

This after installing the E911 system in their switches the last 3 years at $52hr.

They would not even say why.

I feel I at least deserve to be told what it was I have done wrong.

Oh and not eligible to re-apply at AT&T for 6 months.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

WTF? I moved my family here with no money saved up. I quit my $6/hour job and took the last paycheck to drive here. I looked for a job the following monday and landed one within 3 days. I stayed here while my wife and daughter stayed back until I had enough money for her to quit her job and move down here. In the mean time I happened to land her a job with a company I had interviewed at but didn't get the job. So yeah, it CAN be done with no money - I've done it.

Well good for you superman.

:roll: I am not superman, but I did what I had to do to improve my own situation. I could have continued struggling along whining about how things were stacked against me and that I was trapped in a shitty deadend job, but I decided I needed to take the risk to improve our life. Luckily it has worked out this time but it didn't happen right away, nor was it the first attempt at "change". But hey, if you don't believe in yourself then you have no one to blame but yourself for your situation.

Now back to the topic.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
So, what do you guys think?

Are solid college-education-requiring middle class jobs with benefits becoming increasingly difficult to find?

Are we becoming a nation of low-wage service providers?

Is the value of college education decreasing as more Americans desperately flood the universities while the number of college-education-requiring jobs per capita decreases?

My wife has two degrees and a certified teacher and cannot land a job.

She is working a hotel front desk job for minimum wage, you tell me.

Have you ever stopped to think maybe it's you? I'm serious here. There is no shortages of employment opportunities and yet you and now your wife can't find ANYTHING. I'm sorry but that just doesn't pass the smell test. And even if somewhat true - why don't you find a place to live where there is work.

Where is the money to pack up and move supposed to come from?

WTF? I moved my family here with no money saved up. I quit my $6/hour job and took the last paycheck to drive here. I looked for a job the following monday and landed one within 3 days. I stayed here while my wife and daughter stayed back until I had enough money for her to quit her job and move down here. In the mean time I happened to land her a job with a company I had interviewed at but didn't get the job. So yeah, it CAN be done with no money - I've done it.

Well good for you superman.

:roll: I am not superman, but I did what I had to do to improve my own situation. I could have continued struggling along whining about how things were stacked against me and that I was trapped in a shitty deadend job, but I decided I needed to take the risk to improve our life. Luckily it has worked out this time but it didn't happen right away, nor was it the first attempt at "change". But hey, if you don't believe in yourself then you have no one to blame but yourself for your situation.

Now back to the topic.

Give me a break. I went to the nearest call center a month ago, took a two hour test and passed it while others failed. Then two weeks later go for two hour interview with two interviewers and today a week later they say for a "variety of factors" none of which they would say I'm not qualified for the $9.51hr call center position in the same company I have been installing E911 system in their switches all over the country for the past three years for $52hr.

Come on get real.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have been installing E911 system in their switches all over the country for the past three years for $52hr.

40 hours/week * 52 weeks/year = 2080 hours/year
2080 hours/year * $52/hour = $108160/year
$108160/year * 3 years = $324480
$324480 * .6 (assume 40% in taxes, medical insurance, retirement) = $194688
$194688 / 3 years = $64896/year
$64896/year / 12 months/year = $5408/month

So what have you been doing with all your money, Dave??? Buying boats? Gambling? Donating to presidential election campaigns?

I could go back to school and get an advanced degree w/ 100% money up front on what you cleared in a single year, let alone 3 years..

 

[StageLeft]

What's this middle class crisis you're talking about? Americans live in bigger houses, have more disposable income, larger/more expensive cars, etc. than they did a generation ago. What's with the constant chicken-little? God, to listen to some of you it's as if the average American makes $2/hour tilling fields and has to sleep in a cot in a workers barracks at night.

And the fact is yes, the best way to protect yourself is to become educated _in a meaningful field_.

Didn't Bill Gates ask for unlimited work visas or whatever so he could hire a whole new generation of programmers from India for less than he would have to pay Americans? Heard a blurb about it on the news a few weeks ago.

Forest for the trees. You can look at a couple hundred thousand educated net-gain individuals who will give skilled labor and ignore the 1-2M social services-sucking leeches from the south if you want and you wouldn't be the first.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I have been installing E911 system in their switches all over the country for the past three years for $52hr.

40 hours/week * 52 weeks/year = 2080 hours/year
2080 hours/year * $52/hour = $108160/year
$108160/year * 3 years = $324480
$324480 * .6 (assume 40% in taxes, medical insurance, retirement) = $194688
$194688 / 3 years = $64896/year
$64896/year / 12 months/year = $5408/month

So what have you been doing with all your money, Dave??? Buying boats? Gambling? Donating to presidential election campaigns?

I could go back to school and get an advanced degree w/ 100% money up front on what you cleared in a single year, let alone 3 years..

Neither of us gamble or smoke or drink. We had only paid two months on the boat which was steal at $12,000 (a friend was just having us finish his note, he had gotten a real yacht)

Last year was in Denver so lived in an apartment there.

If you were paying attention you would know we were swindled on a business here by a deputy sheriff and his friends.

So yes, we were in good shape and going for the perverbal American Dream but suckered instead.

I then pushed on and kept plugging until dropped by AT&T

 

[Legend]

I had plenty of job offers this year, and I got a fat raise this year because of performance and compression. Compression because the average salary for Engineering has shot up due to increased demand and that whole thing about the USD being worth shit.

So I don't agree with the jobs being driven about, but I do agree with the premise that engineering is a critical field for wealth. Engineering is a job that creates new money by creating new ideas that improve everyday life. Many popular jobs in America feed off wealth generation.

 

[Bitek]

The prob w/ science is that its takes a lot of schooling to get an advanced degree to get even low level jobs (due to the glut of useless phDs), and even then the pay is not that great. Its not horrible mind you, but science is THE WORST in regards to educational investment vs salary compensation. Why deal w/ all that crap to make $60k Engineering would be a much better field.

That said, in science its hard to find US workers that are qualified. There are not that many to choose from, but there are a good number of really bright and hard-working Africans and Asians (Indian & Chinese mostly, but lots of Filipinos) that come here to work in science. We don't let the stupid people in.

Sometimes some companies screw visa workers over. Underpaying them and overworking them knowing they can't do too much about it. Some companies sign long-term contracts for green card sponsorship so they don't bail once they get a greencard.

Ie: I think it is a economics/market issue more than anything, but it is in the nations interest to have smart and highly educated people to come here to work in these fields rather than them being offshored.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Perhaps the situation isn't so bad in engineering, at least based on the anecdotal posts here.

I was kind of hoping to hear people's thoughts on the Paul Craig Roberts's op-eds. Did anyone read them?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Perhaps the situation isn't so bad in engineering, at least based on the anecdotal posts here.

I was kind of hoping to hear people's thoughts on the Paul Craig Roberts's op-eds. Did anyone read them?

Everywhere we hear the same droning lie from business interests that there are not enough American engineers and scientists.

That is from the first link. He provides nothing but anecdotal evidence for this. So his next comment

Many responses come from recent university graduates?such as the one who "graduated nearly at the top of my class in 2002" with degrees in both electrical and computer engineering and who "hasn?t been able to find a job."

seems to be refuted by the anecdotal evidence us Engineers who are actually in the field are seeing. By the way - maybe he should send that guy's information to me. We have been trying to hire more EE/ME/CE engineers for a long time and find most recent grads lacking in critical thinking skills needed for our line of work. They also seem to think they are worth more than they really are. A degree means you made it through school and are "smart" but it doesn't mean you are a good engineer. You have to prove you are a good engineer before you are really worth something to an employer.

So IMO, his opinions are a bit skewed because they are agenda(whining) driven.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: BrownTown
At the risk of making even more racist statement based on limited personal knowledge I also want to point out that while most Asian student I have know had very good GPAs they were poor at actually doing any sort of abstract thinking. Again, based on limited personal experiences, Asian people are VERY good at solving math problems or engineering problems out of a textbook, but when you give them a real world problem they just sort of sit there and stare into space because there is no best answer or even well defined math they are required to follow. Asian engineers are great at solving the same types of problems over and over again, but not so good at solving unique problems from first principles.

As per the post above this one, an equipment technician is exactly the type of job I would expect Asian people to excel at which might be part of the reason why the poster is fealing pressure on his job, if you want to be relatively immune to having your job sent to some far off Asian land than I would say one way would be to get a job that does not involve problems that can be solved with a computer or calculator. For example I worked with tons of engineers in my summer internship whose job was managing the construction of substations, this required not only understanding the blueprints, but also organizing subcontractors and parts manufacturers to ensure everything was running smoothly, in a way this might seem like a "management" type job, but it was entry level engineers with <3 years of work that were managing this and it took not only "book learning", but also social skills to be able to deal with engineers and construction foremen from several other companies. Personally the job I just got concerns the construction of power plants here in the ol USA, hard to export that since they actually expect the engineers to go down to the plant and SEE that the things they designed were built correctly which isn't exactly something you can do from India.

Asian engineers good at solving the same types of problems? You gotta be freaking kidding me. This is such a racist BS that has nothing to do with the topic. There are all sorts of Asian engineers, from entry level to executive that runs a company like Yahoo, nVidia. There were so much innovation in the past few years in the computer hardware industry, much of it comes from the creativity of Asian engineers. Asian may look timid and not speak up in the meeting because of the language and culture difference, but they certain are capable of solving real world problem, giving you find the right type of people.

Aside from that, I agree with you that if you don't want your work outsourced, you need to have the skills and do jobs that cannot be done thousands of miles away. Things like understanding the business, talking to the client, and not just write code, draw design diagram, or create spreadsheets.

An regarding the OP, American are not being driven out of careers in Science and Engineering, American CHOOSE to be in careers outside of Science and Engineering. The unemployment rate in Science and Engineering has been documented to be almost non-existent even with all the off shoring going on. If anyone who want to be in this career, they will find jobs. It's going to take lots of study, logical thinking and the career may not be glamorous, but the job is gonna be there, period.

I wonder when he says Asian does he mean that the English speaking and born in America Asian that is not American because he/she is not white ? Or is it because they are Asian and were not born in this country even though they are US citizens or is it because he thinks they are all here on visa's. In the end it's just sounds like a bunch of generalizations. It sounds to me from just reading this post that American = White person only.

 

[philipuso]

You people sound like a ship of fools.
Which one of you is gonna grow some balls and throw the captain overboard??

Ship of Fools

Interview with Ted

 

[fallout man]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

I wonder when he says Asian does he mean that the English speaking and born in America Asian is not American because he/she is not white or is it because they Asian and were not born in this country even though they are US citizens or is because they are all here on VISA's. In the end it's just sounds like a bunch of over generalizations. It sounds to me from just reading this post that American = White person only.

American = someone with a citizenship who bothered to take ESL.

I hear your point and it's a good one although those Americans born in America who do not know how to cook rice are at a socio economic disadvantage to those Americans who are white but can cook rice pretty well. If you are not born in the the US but you are now a citizen and your parents are here on VISA's that is pretty cool. In summary and conclusion the universe is pretty big and we are just a tiny part.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: fallout man

Originally posted by: Drift3r

I wonder when he says Asian does he mean that the English speaking and born in America Asian is not American because he/she is not white or is it because they Asian and were not born in this country even though they are US citizens or is because they are all here on VISA's. In the end it's just sounds like a bunch of over generalizations. It sounds to me from just reading this post that American = White person only.

American = someone with a citizenship who bothered to take ESL.

ESL is pretty much a standard course for anyone going to school and hoping to succeed in a competitive high tech job market in the US. Your point is pretty moot IMHO.