Americans and the love of big cars

[EagleKeeper]

I took my daughter's Elantra from Las Vegas to Denver using I40/I25.
I took our Pontiac Bonneville from Las Vegas to Huntsville using I40/I65.

Stiff and sore the next day with the Elantra.
Huntsville (1 additional longer day drive) and I was able to work the next day.


Drive 4-6 hours in a small car

The drive 6-8 hrs in a big car.

You have your answer.

Also, the bigger car will handle rough roads better.

 

[Dannar26]

I guess I'm just an oddity, but I like that rougher feeling when driving a car. I admit bigger/luxury cars make the road feel like it's not there in terms of noise and bumps. But for me, I don't mind.

The bang for buck argument is actually pretty logical. They gouge the crap out of you to put convenience packages in littler cars. I think it's getting a bit better as the competition heats up in that segment.

My point is more along the lines of what ExarKuhn said, just seems like the soccer mom dropping off 1-2 kids to school doesn't need the Escalade. But it's a free market economy, do what you will.

I respect vehicles that can work, like pickups. Buddy 'O mine has one, I don't know how he puts up with whatever a '98 F-150 gets for milage, but I'm sure glad it's there when I need crap moved.

But the work argument doesn't really work so well with a lot of those effeminate SUVs. How many times do you see a Murano hauling a trailer? I don't live in the city, but I'm sure even a smart car can handle most run-of-the-mill situations in suburbia...even though it feels more 'Murikan to plow through those puddles with 4x4 power!

Duely blundered from my thunderdolt

 

[Sidekicknichola]

Also, the bigger car will handle rough roads better.

I don't know if that is always the case... this might not be a fair comparison because it is sort of luxury vs. others, but I'll chime in anyway.


I drive a Lexus IS350 ... not a very big car.
My best friend has a Newer Maxima, pretty big sedan
My fiance' drives a newer Accord V6, mid-size
.... The three of us were road tripping to Florida and had to pick which car to take.... we had done the trip before in the Maxima, and done another longer trip (9 hours each way) in the Accord... there was no question to take my IS3 even though it was small than the others.
20 hours straight through in the car and we all felt pretty darn good.

 

[AstroManLuca]

I guess I'm just an oddity, but I like that rougher feeling when driving a car. I admit bigger/luxury cars make the road feel like it's not there in terms of noise and bumps. But for me, I don't mind.

I think you are an oddity then. I used to TRY to convince myself of this, back when I owned a Honda Fit. Eventually I stopped trying and swapped it out for an Accord. I will NEVER go back to a subcompact again. They're uncomfortable, plain and simple.

The bang for buck argument is actually pretty logical. They gouge the crap out of you to put convenience packages in littler cars. I think it's getting a bit better as the competition heats up in that segment.

Agreed. Look at the Nissan Versa. Cheapest car you can buy in the US, with a base price of just $10,990 new. If you want cruise control, you'll have to swap in a CVT instead of a manual transmission and then add the cruise control package, which raises the price to $13,470 (but also gives you four speakers instead of two, and a trunk light!). If you want power windows and locks, you have to move up to the next trim level, which is just under $14k.

Granted, a lot of the Versa's competitors have simply done away with the stripped-down base model and include all that stuff anyway, usually at about the same price. So in the end you still pay about the same amount for the same features.

My point is more along the lines of what ExarKuhn said, just seems like the soccer mom dropping off 1-2 kids to school doesn't need the Escalade. But it's a free market economy, do what you will.

I respect vehicles that can work, like pickups. Buddy 'O mine has one, I don't know how he puts up with whatever a '98 F-150 gets for milage, but I'm sure glad it's there when I need crap moved.

But the work argument doesn't really work so well with a lot of those effeminate SUVs. How many times do you see a Murano hauling a trailer? I don't live in the city, but I'm sure even a smart car can handle most run-of-the-mill situations in suburbia...even though it feels more 'Murikan to plow through those puddles with 4x4 power!

Duely blundered from my thunderdolt

Agreed on using SUVs to commute. I don't get it either. Then again, a lot of pickup owners rarely use them for hauling stuff and end up just commuting with them as well. Then of course you have "bro trucks" which are lifted so much as to be impractical for anything other than showing off. And in a lot of places, especially rural communities, owning a shiny new pickup truck (even if you don't need it) is a status symbol just like owning a BMW is in the suburbs.

One thing I've heard mentioned a lot is how people buy a car based on what they'll be doing with it 1% of the time. If you haul your boat twice a year and never need the towing capacity any other time, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a large truck. Save your money and put it toward a rental truck for those rare occasions.

 

[foghorn67]

I don't know if that is always the case... this might not be a fair comparison because it is sort of luxury vs. others, but I'll chime in anyway.


I drive a Lexus IS350 ... not a very big car.
My best friend has a Newer Maxima, pretty big sedan
My fiance' drives a newer Accord V6, mid-size
.... The three of us were road tripping to Florida and had to pick which car to take.... we had done the trip before in the Maxima, and done another longer trip (9 hours each way) in the Accord... there was no question to take my IS3 even though it was small than the others.
20 hours straight through in the car and we all felt pretty darn good.

Accord: 194.1 x 72.7 x 58.1 in, 3585 lb

IS350: 180.1 x 70.9 x 56.1 in, 3571 lb

Maxima: 190.3 x 73.2 x 57.8 in, 3641 lb


Honestly, your car isn't that svelte when comparing the three. The Accord is pretty damn long. However, the Accord is in a dead heat for weight. While the Maxima is only 60 lbs. heavier and 10 inches longer.

My question is, how short are you folks? I'm not considered that tall, and sitting in the back of an IS for more than 5 minutes feels like being stuffed into an 80's compact sedan.

 

[Sidekicknichola]

My question is, how short are you folks?

I'm 6' (6'1" on a good day)
Buddy is 5'10"
Fiance' is 5' 7"


I think this is a more fitting set of numbers:
IS350 - 43.9 in. front leg room, 30.6 in. rear leg room
Accord - 42.5 in. front leg room, 37.2 in. rear leg room
Maxima - 43.8 in. front leg room, 34.6 in. rear leg room

... the front is a wash, but like mentioned, the IS's backseat is next to worthless behind the driver (with me driving)... I think where it makes up for me/others was the fact the seats are that much more plush .... and for a long trip that is key for me

 

[exar333]

I'm 6' (6'1" on a good day)
Buddy is 5'10"
Fiance' is 5' 7"


I think this is a more fitting set of numbers:
IS350 - 43.9 in. front leg room, 30.6 in. rear leg room
Accord - 42.5 in. front leg room, 37.2 in. rear leg room
Maxima - 43.8 in. front leg room, 34.6 in. rear leg room

... the front is a wash, but like mentioned, the IS's backseat is next to worthless behind the driver (with me driving)... I think where it makes up for me/others was the fact the seats are that much more plush .... and for a long trip that is key for me

The Maxima only has .3'' more front and 1.1'' rear leg space than my WRX. And that is with the car almost a foot longer. :/

I agree with the IS though, the backseat is pretty small, but bearable.

 

[master7045]

One thing I've heard mentioned a lot is how people buy a car based on what they'll be doing with it 1% of the time. If you haul your boat twice a year and never need the towing capacity any other time, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a large truck. Save your money and put it toward a rental truck for those rare occasions.

I (semi) shamefully fall into this category as I have an 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I use to tow a 21' ski boat maybe twice a summer. I live in the midwest and having a V8 that can get through some bad snow storms is very nice. I don't know if I could have made it the entire way up I-55 during a very bad snowstorm that we had. Again, easy solution would have been to stay home that weekend. I'm trying to convince my wife that we don't need a full size SUV and could easily "downgrade" to a crossover SUV like a Nissan Rogue, BMW X3, MB GLK, Rav-4, etc. (I realize these CUVs are all over the price range, just giving an example of size). Her two sticking points are that we have 1 & soon to be 2 kids in car seats plus we don't owe anything on the Jeep.

 

[exdeath]

I like my Gen 3 (92-96) Camry. There is more room in that "small" car than many much larger cars.

6'3" 200 lbs I can just open the door and just jump in, front and rear. No having to be conscious of leg placement or head room, plenty of breathing room, no having to duck or hold on to anything or brace to enter or exit the car, a mile of clearance between my knees and seat/dash, etc.

I've been in all sorts of cars that dwarf my Camry in external size, yet feel very cramped and uncomfortable and not as ergonomic. They nailed the proportions and ergonomics.

 

[jagec]

Small cars... don't have enough power to pass other cars easily

Most of your other points were accurate, but I have to disagree with this one. Back in the 80s it was true, but not anymore. Sure, a Civic might not be as fast as a Corvette, but it has more than enough power to merge/pass/drive fast.

And this is coming from someone who rides a motorcycle, so I KNOW what it feels like to have instant power on tap.

It's impossible to sell an "underpowered" car in America anymore. So our definitions of "fast enough" have been slowly creeping upwards.

 

[skipsneeky2]

Planning on a 4,500 mile round trip in the next month or so,my daily driver being a 94 corolla with 252k miles is just way to cramped to have 4 people in with 33'' of rear leg room going so many miles.

Plan on retiring it in favor of a v6 3.0 2000 maxima or a 04-06 grand marquis with a v8 4.6...

Seller i believe for most is interior room,the 2000 maxima boosts 37'' or so of rear leg room,the grand marquis nearly 40'',both options make a older compact corolla look like tuna can when you cram so many people in it.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Most of your other points were accurate, but I have to disagree with this one. Back in the 80s it was true, but not anymore. Sure, a Civic might not be as fast as a Corvette, but it has more than enough power to merge/pass/drive fast.

And this is coming from someone who rides a motorcycle, so I KNOW what it feels like to have instant power on tap.

It's impossible to sell an "underpowered" car in America anymore. So our definitions of "fast enough" have been slowly creeping upwards.

I guess you're right. The Fit I used to own only had 109 hp, but the gears were so short I could accelerate to pass (albeit slowly) even at highway speeds. Of course the flipside is that the short gearing made the engine rev too high. I think they configured it that way because they assume people are too lazy to bother downshifting (and they're probably right).

Anyway, power wasn't really a problem with that car anyway. It wasn't a speed demon but it could get along well enough even with just 109 hp. Most testers reported 0-60 times of around 9 seconds, which is decent for that segment.

 

[exdeath]

Even when you think you can pass in a weak car, it's only because the other person "let" you. I prefer to speak softly and carry a big stick and not allow my actions to be constrained and dictated by the mood dependent consent of other anonymous drivers.

I don't lane hop and drive like a douche or habitually speed. I can be content just keeping my place in line and cruising in the right lane and not being a selfish ass in traffic. I'm not in a hurry, and I have nothing to prove.

But if I want or need to pass, it's going to happen. You can can glare at me in your mirror and hold your foot to the floor all day and try to block me because you have a small penis and think you can control other anonymous people, but it's not going to matter. If I detect conflict, contest, and aggression, there will be disproportionate response leading to your total destruction and humiliation.

That's why I prefer powerful cars, but they don't necessarily have to be big.

 

[skipsneeky2]

exdeath has some good points,where i live people love to tailgate you,and just ride your ass and i think for some its sport.

Some people nearly have a orgasm and can't wait to pass my gutless 94 corolla if a double lane stretch comes up going up a slight incline...i have to drop it out of 5th and floor the car in 4th gear to keep it at 50-53mph,while the a**holes fly pass me in the other lane the sec that double lane comes up going 70mph in a 55mph zone,honking sometimes as they do it.

 

[rh71]

I'm going to generalize here... people with families need big cars. I've said it before... in the past, there were no regulations on child seats, but now there are. You can't have more than 2 kids in a regular car if in car seats - it just doesn't work anymore. Why would you spend anything over $20k but end up with the absolute minimum and not plan for the future? You don't. That's one of the big reasons why there are SUVs and minivans galore on the road now compared to before. They WORK, and there's the added bonus of safety for the family within. It's not because they're pretty or sport bad-ass motors. Generally speaking.

 

[Viperoni]

Even when you think you can pass in a weak car, it's only because the other person "let" you.

That's a silly opinion not based on fact at all.
Even when I had a car that did 0-60 in over 13 seconds (91 tempo, 4cyl, 3sp auto), passing wasn't a big deal.

People are just scared to step on the gas pedal.

 

[exdeath]

exdeath has some good points,where i live people love to tailgate you,and just ride your ass and i think for some its sport.

Some people nearly have a orgasm and can't wait to pass my gutless 94 corolla if a double lane stretch comes up going up a slight incline...i have to drop it out of 5th and floor the car in 4th gear to keep it at 50-53mph,while the a**holes fly pass me in the other lane the sec that double lane comes up going 70mph in a 55mph zone,honking sometimes as they do it.

Yeah, totally uncalled for, it's just an act of alpha domination and flaunting superiority because they have or think they have a slightly better car than you. It's bullying plain and simple.

It happens all over the road for the same reason it does on the internet: anonymity.

 

[exdeath]

That's a silly opinion not based on fact at all.
Even when I had a car that did 0-60 in over 13 seconds (91 tempo, 4cyl, 3sp auto), passing wasn't a big deal.

People are just scared to step on the gas pedal.

My Camry isn't THAT slow, but 75% of the travel range of the accelerator pedal pretty much does nothing. You can flat foot it in any gear at any RPM and get nothing. Downshifting does nothing but make more noise and raise RPM, there is no force of acceleration felt and you don't go any faster. There is nothing wrong with the car, it's just how a weak car responds.

In reality it's more than enough to hit 75 BEFORE the top of the on ramp and get out of the way, but compared to everything else on the road and aggressive pretentious drivers with twice the power let alone 3 or 4 times the power... When they are riding your ass and being a bully and insisting on driving 30 mph faster than you even when you are already doing 20 over, only to slow down to your speed 3 cars in front of you, it is JUST because you are there, and just epeening because they can; it certainly seeds a lust for more power...

 

[Elfear]

I'm going to generalize here... people with families need big cars. I've said it before... in the past, there were no regulations on child seats, but now there are. You can't have more than 2 kids in a regular car if in car seats - it just doesn't work anymore. Why would you spend anything over $20k but end up with the absolute minimum and not plan for the future? You don't. That's one of the big reasons why there are SUVs and minivans galore on the road now compared to before. They WORK, and there's the added bonus of safety for the family within. It's not because they're pretty or sport bad-ass motors. Generally speaking.

+1

A minivan was not on my short list of exciting vehicles I'd like to own one day but our Caravan does it's job very well. I can't imagine hauling three kids, groceries, school projects, a dog, recycling, friends, and various other items around in a small four-door car. Much easier in a big vehicle like an SUV or minivan.

 

[ussfletcher]

I don't fit well in small cars. Even in my mid-size/large sedan (06 Buick Lacrosse) if I am driving, only a midget could sit behind me. Even when sitting with my seat pretty reclined there is only about an inch and a half of clearance above my head. I'm 6'2", I can't imagine how people taller to me fit in smaller cars.

 

[Meghan54]

But the work argument doesn't really work so well with a lot of those effeminate SUVs. How many times do you see a Murano hauling a trailer? I don't live in the city, but I'm sure even a smart car can handle most run-of-the-mill situations in suburbia...even though it feels more 'Murikan to plow through those puddles with 4x4 power!

Well, tha, don't get in the way of my "effeminate" Murano as it's pulling our 17' fiberglass deep V-hull bowrider with a 3.0 Mrecruiser (wish it had the 4.3L, but c'est la vie)...it'll just roll right over your mouse-trap car. The poor effeminate Murano had no problems pulling that 2500# boat from Wisconsin to MA through snow storms back in January nor pulling the boat up the ramps around the Cape so far.....like to see your sub-compact you want do that.


Or have your little car tow home a utlitiy trailer loaded with two dozen 2x4's, 15 sheets of 3/4" 4x8 plywood, five bags of concrete, 4 gals. primer and paint, three boxes of nails, and have room inside for a couple of dogs (our Golden and our Lab), and some groceries.


I do understand a lot of SUV's never see any duty other than driving down the road empty their whole lives, but unless you live in NYC or the like and never venture outside your little insular world, you need not be so quick to judge and make blanket statements and open your eyes to what some of us do use our vehicles for. Our "girly" Murano works and works damned hard....and still sits comfortably, has decent power and acceleration, and looks a lot better than our old '02 Blazer we used for 250K miles until it died or the Highlanders we looked at, etc.


And the AWD does come in handy....really worked well pulling that boat down I-90 when there was one lane open each way between Buffalo and Albany.

 

[PricklyPete]

I don't fit well in small cars. Even in my mid-size/large sedan (06 Buick Lacrosse) if I am driving, only a midget could sit behind me. Even when sitting with my seat pretty reclined there is only about an inch and a half of clearance above my head. I'm 6'2", I can't imagine how people taller to me fit in smaller cars.

I'm 6'5" and I had no problem fitting in the Kia RIO hatchback I had as a rental this past weekend. Sure sitting in my M3 or my wife's A4 is nicer...but I didn't have one complaint about the seating arrangement of the RIO over the weekend.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

One thing I've heard mentioned a lot is how people buy a car based on what they'll be doing with it 1% of the time. If you haul your boat twice a year and never need the towing capacity any other time, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to buy a large truck. Save your money and put it toward a rental truck for those rare occasions.

Even if you don't tow your boat that often needing to rent a truck just to be able to move isn't a reasonable option. If I make plans to take the boat to a different lake on short notice the last thing I want to do is track down a truck that I can use to pull it.

The convenience of having a larger vehicle can easily make up for the higher gas costs. If I need to pick up 1,000lbs of lumber or paving stones for a project it's no problem with my truck but if I only had a car I'd be looking for a truck to rent yet again. Besides even if it is less efficient the truck is a much more comfortable commuter than a subcompact and I don't have to worry about getting ran over by some idiot in a SUV that is talking on their phone.

 

[TheAdvocate]

1. Highway trips, including daily commutes

2. Most small cars are more cheaply made. very few quality small cars

3. Child seats eat up passenger room

4. Hauling stuff, whether its trunk space or something on a trailer.

I have 2 young kids and drive a midsize V6 sedan. It's boring but does the job. I'd love a small star-on-the-track coupe, but not practical for me right now. Maybe for my midlife crisis.

 

[Dannar26]

Ah, but the observation *is* about my insular little slice of south eastern PA. I'm not attempting to haul boats, lumber & nails, or 1000 pounds of dogs or whatever have you. I'm not doing it on a remote mountain pass through a brutal hurricane blizzard. And neither are the other drivers I encounter day in and day out.

If you live somewhere where you need a duty vehicle, by all means, have one. But, I'm musing over all the SUVs being used as (and I'd be willing to bet *exclusively*) commuter vehicles.

The family thing makes sense, but I had always imagined sucking it up and getting a minivan if family size warrants. I feel the same way about "duty" vehicles. I'd take a truck over a cutesy soccer mom SUV.

I guess I'm too focused on the doom and gloom of gas prices...been considering taking a bicycle for the work commute.

Duely blundered from my thunderdolt