American soldiers disobeying orders...

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freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

There are no shades of gray in this war. (Bull, an out and put propagandistic lie) At its conclusion, which God willing (Riiiiiiiiight, God is on our side in the killing) will come soon, we will celebrate the victory of light over darkness (RIIIGHT, the war was about light over darkness. and not a New American Century) War is a nasty, uncivilized, brutal business. But (And here comes the but) with that caveat, it is no exaggeration to boast that U.S. and British forces are now fighting the most humanitarian war in history. (RIIIIIIIIIGHT the killing and deaths of thousands in the insanity of war is a great humanitarian triumph. Not for the dead. Only the insane and detached celebrate a humanitarian war. War is always a symbol and sure sign of human failure.)


Does your ivory tower have a jacuzzi?

Your idealized arguments are so tiresome.
In your lofty utopian society, there is never a need for violence. We all just sit a big circle around the campfire, sing songs, love each other and eat Granola.
Unfortunately for the rest of us who live down here in the muck of reality, it isn't always so simple.

You see, what you fail to realize is, human beings are animals. I do not mean that in the metaphorical sense.
I mean it in the physiological sense. Strip away the paper thin trappings of what we laughingly call "civilization" and we are all just talking monkeys. We (Homo-sapiens) are hard wired for violence as a defense mechanism.
Have you ever been robbed? Beaten up? Threatened?
What was your first instinct? To reach out and hug your attacker? If you say yes, you're a liar. Your first instinct was to reach over and rip his throat out before he could bring harm to you. It's natural. Violence is natural. Everyone (even you Moonbeam) is, to some extent, violent.

So, since we cannot divorce ourselves of that which is instinctual, all we are logically left with are degrees of violence.

The degree of violence that the regime of Saddam Hussein has used to maintain control over the people of Iraq has rarely been paralleled, the methods of which are well documented in these forums and I will not bother to chronical them again.
Allowed to remain unchecked, the cycle of violence could only escalate. With fear as it's primary mechanism of control, it follows that, as discontent and dissent grew among the populace, so would the level of violence necessary to control them. Megalo maniacle dictators do not simply abdicate power. I'm sure even you would have to agree with that.

So, you see, in the real world, sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
Our armed forces liberated those people from tyranny and oppression and no amount of second guessing and hateful sarcasm is going to change that.

Is war a failure of mankind? Of course it is.

But is apathy a greater one?



 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Originally posted by: freakflag
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

There are no shades of gray in this war. (Bull, an out and put propagandistic lie) At its conclusion, which God willing (Riiiiiiiiight, God is on our side in the killing) will come soon, we will celebrate the victory of light over darkness (RIIIGHT, the war was about light over darkness. and not a New American Century) War is a nasty, uncivilized, brutal business. But (And here comes the but) with that caveat, it is no exaggeration to boast that U.S. and British forces are now fighting the most humanitarian war in history. (RIIIIIIIIIGHT the killing and deaths of thousands in the insanity of war is a great humanitarian triumph. Not for the dead. Only the insane and detached celebrate a humanitarian war. War is always a symbol and sure sign of human failure.)


Does your ivory tower have a jacuzzi?

Your idealized arguments are so tiresome.
In your lofty utopian society, there is never a need for violence. We all just sit a big circle around the campfire, sing songs, love each other and eat Granola.
Unfortunately for the rest of us who live down here in the muck of reality, it isn't always so simple.

You see, what you fail to realize is, human beings are animals. I do not mean that in the metaphorical sense.
I mean it in the physiological sense. Strip away the paper thin trappings of what we laughingly call "civilization" and we are all just talking monkeys. We (Homo-sapiens) are hard wired for violence as a defense mechanism.
Have you ever been robbed? Beaten up? Threatened?
What was your first instinct? To reach out and hug your attacker? If you say yes, you're a liar. Your first instinct was to reach over and rip his throat out before he could bring harm to you. It's natural. Violence is natural. Everyone (even you Moonbeam) is, to some extent, violent.

So, since we cannot divorce ourselves of that which is instinctual, all we are logically left with are degrees of violence.

The degree of violence that the regime of Saddam Hussein has used to maintain control over the people of Iraq has rarely been paralleled, the methods of which are well documented in these forums and I will not bother to chronical them again.
Allowed to remain unchecked, the cycle of violence could only escalate. With fear as it's primary mechanism of control, it follows that, as discontent and dissent grew among the populace, so would the level of violence necessary to control them. Megalo maniacle dictators do not simply abdicate power. I'm sure even you would have to agree with that.

So, you see, in the real world, sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils.
Our armed forces liberated those people from tyranny and oppression and no amount of second guessing and hateful sarcasm is going to change that.

Is war a failure of mankind? Of course it is.

But is apathy a greater one?

Who cares?

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
Does your ivory tower have a jacuzzi? (Does your sewer have a manhole?)


Your idealized arguments are so tiresome. (Yours, while hereto for unknown proved on reading to be quite tired.)
In your lofty utopian society, there is never a need for violence. (You know nothing of my notions of a lofty utopian society. You simply use straw dog arguments to attempt to garner credit where none is due) We all just sit a big circle around the campfire, sing songs, love each other and eat Granola. (More of your own self conceived horse poo)
Unfortunately for the rest of us who live down here in the muck of reality, it isn't always so simple. (As if your notion of reality even approximated anything more than a propagandistic illusion)

You see, what you fail to realize is, human beings are animals. (An absurd and as I said tired notion. You have no conception what it means to be human. You know only what it means to be an insane human. You refer to subjects about which you can't possible even imagine. A pig at a trough knows nothing about what man can become) I do not mean that in the metaphorical sense. (You don't mean anything an any sense. You present brainwashed drivel)
I mean it in the physiological sense. Strip away the paper thin trappings of what we laughingly call "civilization" and we are all just talking monkeys. We (Homo-sapiens) are hard wired for violence as a defense mechanism. (Ahahahaha, as if that meant we are mass murderers. We are subject to fight or flight and we have a brain that transforms that in those who know how to use it. We transcend our anamalistic nature just as Christ demonstrated when he forgave those who killed him. A small dog doesn't pee very far up a pole.)
Have you ever been robbed? Beaten up? Threatened? (Ashamed of how you reacted and need to assume everybody poops in their pants or reacts with violence? I am not the issue. I'm a nobody)
What was your first instinct? To reach out and hug your attacker? If you say yes, you're a liar. Your first instinct was to reach over and rip his throat out before he could bring harm to you. It's natural. Violence is natural. Everyone (even you Moonbeam) is, to some extent, violent. (More of your self congratulatory drivel. You know nothing about me and what is true of me means nothing compared to what man can become. What did Christ do or a thousand other examples?)

So, since we cannot divorce ourselves of that which is instinctual, all we are logically left with are degrees of violence.(You build an illusion and trap yourself within it's cozy configns. You know nothing at all about instinct or the true nature of man)

The degree of violence that the regime of Saddam Hussein has used to maintain control over the people of Iraq has rarely been paralleled, the methods of which are well documented in these forums and I will not bother to chronical them again. (Here comes the demonization of the other to self justify a similar behavior)
Allowed to remain unchecked, the cycle of violence could only escalate. (We excalated the cycle when we attacked) With fear as it's primary mechanism of control, it follows that, as discontent and dissent grew among the populace, so would the level of violence necessary to control them. Megalo maniacle dictators do not give simply abdicate power. I'm sure even you would have to agree with that. (I not only agree but see the irrelevance)

So, you see, in the real world, sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. ( Irrelevant, the question is never which is the lesser, but why do we see only two options both of which are our own deluded making)
Our armed forces liberated those people from tyranny and oppression and no amount of second guessing and hateful sarcasm is going to change that. (As if I were disagreeing. The hatefullness is all your own)

Is war a failure of mankind? Of course it is.

But is apathy a greater one? (As if the alternative to war is apathy. You live inside a box that is your assumptions trapped like a rat on a treadmill or the wheel of karma. You are a person whose teacup is full of the tea of your own ego. But never mind, you're your own form of idealistic dreamer. You just don't see yourself except in me.)
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Did he say horse poo? That's what convinced me.....
Does he always get like that when he's wrong?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
Did he say horse poo? That's what convinced me.....
Does he always get like that when he's wrong?
-----------------------
I can't remember. It's been a while.
 

freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Does your ivory tower have a jacuzzi? (Does your sewer have a manhole?)


Your idealized arguments are so tiresome. (Yours, while hereto for unknown proved on reading to be quite tired.)
In your lofty utopian society, there is never a need for violence. (You know nothing of my notions of a lofty utopian society. You simply use straw dog arguments to attempt to garner credit where none is due) We all just sit a big circle around the campfire, sing songs, love each other and eat Granola. (More of your own self conceived horse poo)
Unfortunately for the rest of us who live down here in the muck of reality, it isn't always so simple. (As if your notion of reality even approximated anything more than a propagandistic illusion)

You see, what you fail to realize is, human beings are animals. (An absurd and as I said tired notion. You have no conception what it means to be human. You know only what it means to be an insane human. You refer to subjects about which you can't possible even imagine. A pig at a trough knows nothing about what man can become) I do not mean that in the metaphorical sense. (You don't mean anything an any sense. You present brainwashed drivel)
I mean it in the physiological sense. Strip away the paper thin trappings of what we laughingly call "civilization" and we are all just talking monkeys. We (Homo-sapiens) are hard wired for violence as a defense mechanism. (Ahahahaha, as if that meant we are mass murderers. We are subject to fight or flight and we have a brain that transforms that in those who know how to use it. We transcend our anamalistic nature just as Christ demonstrated when he forgave those who killed him. A small dog doesn't pee very far up a pole.)
Have you ever been robbed? Beaten up? Threatened? (Ashamed of how you reacted and need to assume everybody poops in their pants or reacts with violence? I am not the issue. I'm a nobody)
What was your first instinct? To reach out and hug your attacker? If you say yes, you're a liar. Your first instinct was to reach over and rip his throat out before he could bring harm to you. It's natural. Violence is natural. Everyone (even you Moonbeam) is, to some extent, violent. (More of your self congratulatory drivel. You know nothing about me and what is true of me means nothing compared to what man can become. What did Christ do or a thousand other examples?)

So, since we cannot divorce ourselves of that which is instinctual, all we are logically left with are degrees of violence.(You build an illusion and trap yourself within it's cozy configns. You know nothing at all about instinct or the true nature of man)

The degree of violence that the regime of Saddam Hussein has used to maintain control over the people of Iraq has rarely been paralleled, the methods of which are well documented in these forums and I will not bother to chronical them again. (Here comes the demonization of the other to self justify a similar behavior)
Allowed to remain unchecked, the cycle of violence could only escalate. (We excalated the cycle when we attacked) With fear as it's primary mechanism of control, it follows that, as discontent and dissent grew among the populace, so would the level of violence necessary to control them. Megalo maniacle dictators do not give simply abdicate power. I'm sure even you would have to agree with that. (I not only agree but see the irrelevance)

So, you see, in the real world, sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. ( Irrelevant, the question is never which is the lesser, but why do we see only two options both of which are our own deluded making)
Our armed forces liberated those people from tyranny and oppression and no amount of second guessing and hateful sarcasm is going to change that. (As if I were disagreeing. The hatefullness is all your own)

Is war a failure of mankind? Of course it is.

But is apathy a greater one? (As if the alternative to war is apathy. You live inside a box that is your assumptions trapped like a rat on a treadmill or the wheel of karma. You are a person whose teacup is full of the tea of your own ego. But never mind, you're your own form of idealistic dreamer. You just don't see yourself except in me.)


All I can say is...wow. I don't even know what you are, in your own convoluted way, trying to say about me with that string of emotional outbursts. How you can manage to put so many words on the screen and still manage to say absolutely nothing intelligent is beyond me. I think I must have really caused you to question your world view to have drawn such rancor. Are you going to be OK?
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Did he say horse poo? That's what convinced me.....
Does he always get like that when he's wrong?
-----------------------
I can't remember. It's been a while.


Really? Recent events suggest quite a few of your previous posts were rather off target to say the least.
 

friedpie

Senior member
Oct 1, 2002
703
0
0
Originally posted by: Kaiynne
Firstly We need to separate the people in the military from the people who are coming up with the policies that put them there.

Asinine argument. I love how some people want to hate the government but love the troops at the same time. If the government orders troops to pull the trigger then why can't the troops be as guilty as the government since they are all VOLUNTEERS of the MILITARY? Hello? You think a Marine joined up to pass out water? They joined to kick some ass and shoot guns.

The response of these military personel to the obvious hardship around them, is amazing, they are doing something that is at least helping a few people.

They have also killed thousands of people. Yes, they can be both killers and humanitarians.

But lets not take their actions and use it to defend the actions of the people who put them there.

You can't have it both ways. Those troops volunteered to join THE MILITARY. The military the war fighting arm of our government. They are government employees, and they volunteered knowing they would have to kill for the government. If you think the government is guilty of some crime you can't say the troops are not. I just don't get this silly, fallacious logic of yours.

That is faulty reasoning.

Now you said something I can agree with.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
Really? Recent events suggest quite a few of your previous posts were rather off target to say the least.
-------------------
Hehehe, the fact that you find them to be off is an excellent gauge they're right on. And not only was I able to stomach the bush cheering, I fully expected it.
----------
---------
freakflag, you'll have to remind me the next time I have an emotional outburst that I shouldn't laugh my ass off throughout the entire episode. It's spoils the effect. :D Oh God, I punched three holes in the wall. I'll have to get back on my medicine. Oh whatever happened to my sanity. I used to be so calm. Geez, am I glad I don't have any 2 year olds lifing in my house. I'd probably kill them for peeing on my rug. I'm just not well. :D Oh and anything that went over your head, I'd be glad to explain. Remember though, explanation doesn't guarantee comprehension. No, not by a long shot. :gift:
 

freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Really? Recent events suggest quite a few of your previous posts were rather off target to say the least.
-------------------
Hehehe, the fact that you find them to be off is an excellent gauge they're right on. And not only was I able to stomach the bush cheering, I fully expected it.
----------
---------
freakflag, you'll have to remind me the next time I have an emotional outburst that I shouldn't laugh my ass off throughout the entire episode. It's spoils the effect. :D Oh God, I punched three holes in the wall. I'll have to get back on my medicine. Oh whatever happened to my sanity. I used to be so calm. Geez, am I glad I don't have any 2 year olds lifing in my house. I'd probably kill them for peeing on my rug. I'm just not well. :D Oh and anything that went over your head, I'd be glad to explain. Remember though, explanation doesn't guarantee comprehension. No, not by a long shot. :gift:


OK, for one brief moment I thought that perhaps you might be rational. I was wrong.

I guess I'll just go back to calling you a drooling idiot like everyone else in the forum and continue to marvel at your collosally misguided arrogance and utter lack of a focused, logical thought process. The absence of cohesion in your statements are indicative of deep seated psychosis compounded by feelings of inferiorty. You are a mess. Please do not procreate.

The only way anything spewing out of your feces encrusted cakehole will ever go over my head is if you're standing at the top of a very tall ladder. Commenting on my mental acuity is silly...you're simply not qualified.

I would like to point out that words can be violent as well. Comedy, for example, is universally recognized as being violent. Your vitriolic tantrum illustrates my point in this thread so well that even a moron like you must appreciate the irony.

Woops...there I go trying to use logic again. In fact, forget everything you just read. You'll only hurt yourself trying to understand it,
and I'm against needless suffering.

EDIT: I realize how completely off topic this little rant was. Let me apologize in advance to anyone who thought they might read through this post and actually find some additional information about the topic.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
To tell you the truth, freakflag, I hadn't noticed you existed till you decided to attack my post beginning with :

"Does your ivory tower have a jacuzzi?

Your idealized arguments are so tiresome."

and followed by a sophmoric derivitive analysis of human nature that completely overloods our human, much less mammalian nature. If you want to cast stones, please move out of your glass house. I think you thought you could slime and walk away scott free and got hit back by a feather duster you took to be a sledge hammer, owing, doubtlessly to your own naive insecurity. You were the one who acted like a child and then had a tantrum when called on it. Sorry bro, but if you want to slam, prepare for retaliation, right. :D Did you take me for a tree hugger and an easy mark? :D Have a crying towel. Words can be violent, their intent can, but it only hurts if you already believe what you hear. I don't give tow hoots about you in the sense of getting off on belittleing you. But I do care about truth as I see it and as you slimed it. I try, in my little way, to remove that slime. The soldiers described by this thread are themselves a refutation of your pathetic notion of human nature. What you called reality is the sewer not the world of men. Buck up. You are human too, far far more than you have imagined. Have a nice day. :gift:
 

freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
To tell you the truth, freakflag, I hadn't noticed you existed till you decided to attack my post beginning with :

"Does your ivory tower have a jacuzzi?

Your idealized arguments are so tiresome."

and followed by a sophmoric derivitive analysis of human nature that completely overloods our human, much less mammalian nature. If you want to cast stones, please move out of your glass house. I think you thought you could slime and walk away scott free and got hit back by a feather duster you took to be a sledge hammer, owing, doubtlessly to your own naive insecurity. You were the one who acted like a child and then had a tantrum when called on it. Sorry bro, but if you want to slam, prepare for retaliation, right. :D Did you take me for a tree hugger and an easy mark? :D Have a crying towel. Words can be violent, their intent can, but it only hurts if you already believe what you hear. I don't give tow hoots about you in the sense of getting off on belittleing you. But I do care about truth as I see it and as you slimed it. I try, in my little way, to remove that slime. The soldiers described by this thread are themselves a refutation of your pathetic notion of human nature. What you called reality is the sewer not the world of men. Buck up. You are human too, far far more than you have imagined. Have a nice day. :gift:


Who are you again?

EDIT: Oh yeah...you're that guy who makes me laugh.:D

 

freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
That's right, the clown.


The disturbed looking clown.:D That avatar is really wierd.

EDIT: [RodneyDangerfieldvoice/]Oh...it looks good on you though.[RodneyDangerfieldvoice\]
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Don't worry about it Freakflag as I'm sure you weren't.

Moonie has his magic mirror that he pulls out when someone says something about him. The basic gist of it is think of a third grader going " nah nah nah that's not me that's you". Keep the image of a third grader in mind when discussing anything with moonie. It helps put him in the proper perspective.
 

freakflag

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2001
3,951
1
71
Originally posted by: etech
Don't worry about it Freakflag as I'm sure you weren't.

Moonie has his magic mirror that he pulls out when someone says something about him. The basic gist of it is think of a third grader going " nah nah nah that's not me that's you". Keep the image of a third grader in mind when discussing anything with moonie. It helps put him in the proper perspective.


:D

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
The basic gist of it, freakflag, is that when somebody calls you a third grader it illuminates that comment as a third grade taunt. It's very important to try to discredit the other person as something like say immature, when you find yourself helpless in the face of their truth. Of course there are those occassions where it can be quite constructive to get down to the other person's third grade level and play there to make a fool of yourself in the hope that their seeing your foolishness helps them to see their own, but such subtilty goes by, for the most part, unnoticed except by some select few third party viewers. If you think of Moonie as a tar baby analog you can begin to appreciate the draw. :D Punching at air. Punching at air.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
That's right, the clown.

I think not! the clown is but a ruse to disarm. Subtle is the argument the clown at first puts forth. Its like an orca stalking a helpless prey. And then and all at once.... pounce, crash, boom and another bites the dust.
A wonder to behold...
Lunar ray

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
Alas, I am but poor tar who can but dress them in nought but their own feathers.
 

It makes me feel happy that American soldiers are proving the rest of the world wrong.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Queasy
these are soldiers of the country that Nelson Mandela says ?doesn?t care about human beings.?

He was dead wrong there unless you count the humans that got MOAB's or Bunkie Busters through their roof.
 

CubicZirconia

Diamond Member
Nov 24, 2001
5,193
0
71
Getting away from the nonsensical rantings and back to the topic at hand, I for one am glad the soldiers are doing what they can to help out the Iraqis. Hopefully things work out over there.