America RIP -- great article

Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
I just finished reading a great op-ed by Paul Craig Roberts that sums up a good portion of our nation's economic problems:

America R.I.P.

It's somewhat of a rambling discussion that also covers the two candidates plans for Medicare, but most of it involves the root cause of our current economic problems. Enjoy.

During the second half of the 20th century the United States was an opportunity society. The ladders of upward mobility were plentiful, and the middle class expanded. Incomes rose, and ordinary people were able to achieve old-age security.

In the 21st century the opportunity society has disappeared. Middle class jobs are scarce. Indeed, jobs of any kind are scarce. To stay even with population growth from 2002 through 2011, the economy needed about 14 million new jobs. However, at the end of 2011 there were only 1 million more jobs than in 2002.


Incompetent free market economists confused jobs offshoring with free trade. They said the country would and was benefiting by giving its manufacturing, industrial, and tradable professional service jobs to China and India, that the US was ridding itself of “dirty fingernail jobs” and would soon be flush with highly paid high-tech jobs and highly paid financial service jobs.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
America RIP -- great article

I just finished reading a great op-ed by Paul Craig Roberts that sums up a good portion of our nation's economic problems:

America R.I.P.

It's somewhat of a rambling discussion that also covers the two candidates plans for Medicare, but most of it involves the root cause of our current economic problems. Enjoy.

I've been posting this for well over 10 years. Nothing new here.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
I cant count the number of people I've heard say that losing jobs to China and illegal aliens was actually good for us.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Lets have another stimulus and tax the rich so we can get even! Thats the current "solution". Hardly two neurons functioning with parties and partisans, and that includes the reps.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Joba went overseas only after we started having trade deficits with these nations. Jobs follow the money.

Quit buying Imported Crap !!!
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
Bah... My inbox is full of recruiter e-mails offering me middle and upper middle class tech jobs. The jobs are out there if you're willing to train for them and move to get them.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
I'm starting to think it's too late. The foundation (middle class) has been crumbling for years with no "service" to fix it. And like any foundation that's weakened, the building eventually falls. Those at the top can parachute off or fly off in their rooftop helicopters. The rest can stir around in the remaining rubble below trying to survive.

I can already see posts in this thread (not surprising) saying that we don't need to produce and can retrain and move to the high paying "service" jobs. We'll all be selling Chinese made stuff to each other soon enough....just a matter of time.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Bah... My inbox is full of recruiter e-mails offering me middle and upper middle class tech jobs. The jobs are out there if you're willing to train for them and move to get them.

Since I joined Linkedin I average a 2 to 3 job offers a month. At this point it's very difficult to give up my 22 years of seniority and benefits to take another job though I won't rule it out should the perfect job come along.
 

Dulanic

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2000
9,949
569
136
Joba went overseas only after we started having trade deficits with these nations. Jobs follow the money.

Quit buying Imported Crap !!!

When all that is pushed by the corporations and shown in advertising is imported crap... What do you expect?
 
May 13, 2009
12,333
612
126
The only way to do it now is to "Quit buying Crap" as EVERYTHING is now imported.

Not necessarily true. You can find American made but are you willing to spend 2-4X as much for something? I do buy American made when my budget allows.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by ultimatebob
Bah... My inbox is full of recruiter e-mails offering me middle and upper middle class tech jobs. The jobs are out there if you're willing to train for them and move to get them.


Since I joined Linkedin I average a 2 to 3 job offers a month. At this point it's very difficult to give up my 22 years of seniority and benefits to take another job though I won't rule it out should the perfect job come along.

More 1% braggarts :rolleyes:
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,580
9,962
136
Joba went overseas only after we started having trade deficits with these nations. Jobs follow the money.

Quit buying Imported Crap !!!

and trade only went to those nations once we had "free trade" agreements
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
When all that is pushed by the corporations and shown in advertising is imported crap... What do you expect?

You are going to blame it on advertising? This shit started back in the 70's and we were warned back then by a lot of those same corporations that we would lose jobs. I remember the billboards back then that said every time you buy and import car 1.5 Americans will lose thier jobs. Now it is convient to blame it on the same corporations that warned us what would happen. In 2006 the US had a nearly $800 Billion trqade deficit. You have to be out of your mind to think that a deficit like that is anything but catastrophic to American jobs.
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
It's a shame that people don't understand why there hasn't been what they might deem "fair trade". The lack of manufacturing in the U.S. gov is because of more govt activism, not less.

Also, labor doesn't get paid much because they can easily be tricked, they're willing to accept what they're given, they're often wasteful, the CEOs install a hierarchy within the labor of their company and because the 14th Amendment won't let some of the States experiment, like installing a max wage for CEOs at the State level. It was unfortunate that NY's original wage laws were struck down by the 14th Amendment and then 25 years later they became federal law. Sterilization policy also became federal policy to a degree... eugenics and experimentation and I'm experimented on all the time. It's a terrible idea at the national level, but the anti-labor shit is making me pretty angry... in other words, the Republicans always have and always will use Govt to actively suppress the rights of labor. That's all there is to it. I also don't think everyone should even ever work, because some people like myself were probably meant to mainly be consumers and maybe to give people intellectual happiness and partially guide those superior to the truth. I'd have to say that society would probably be better off if about 1/2 of Americans were jobless, low wage, etc. because some people suck at what they do, myself included. Everyone gives at least a little value, but the natural elite have been oppressed by pro-Wall Street idiots like Romney just as much as they've been oppressed by pro-Occupy bullies. Romney was meant to be an occupier, he just had his dad do everything for him and he probably never realized it. Bush 41 wasn't a total failure, but he had his father do everything for him and Bush 43 did absolutely nothing good and everything bad. Obama is productively good, but he was just too damn young. Clinton was like Bush 41, but they never really helped anyone out and neither could I so I'm going to become President one day even though I realize it's a useless office and that it should really be abolished because it is nothing but a miserable pile of secrets. Now abolish it forever!
 

Anarchist420

Diamond Member
Feb 13, 2010
8,645
0
76
www.facebook.com
You are going to blame it on advertising? This shit started back in the 70's and we were warned back then by a lot of those same corporations that we would lose jobs. I remember the billboards back then that said every time you buy and import car 1.5 Americans will lose thier jobs. Now it is convient to blame it on the same corporations that warned us what would happen. In 2006 the US had a nearly $800 Billion trqade deficit. You have to be out of your mind to think that a deficit like that is anything but catastrophic to American jobs.
Chrysler was a corporation and they requested a bailout from Carter in the 70s. The American laborer just can't compete and neither can the American consumer. The fact that CEOs suck so bad and are so wasteful and illogical also never helped. Most CEOs I know are dumber than I am and they're dependent on the state... the state is dependent on them too. Perhaps the producers of junk who don't realize it should be the only casualty of the upcoming war and people like me shouldn't be tortured or experimented on any more. I won't fight either, maybe I'll help confederalize Russia so they'll win what was started by Churchill's stupidity. The US gov controls Russia and the rest of the world and the US gov can't even appreciate it... it just keeps bullying its subjects at home and abroad even more when everyone but the fake 1% like Romney have had enough. It deserves to collapse and for the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of every human alive it should be replaced with nothing.
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
You are going to blame it on advertising? This shit started back in the 70's and we were warned back then by a lot of those same corporations that we would lose jobs. I remember the billboards back then that said every time you buy and import car 1.5 Americans will lose thier jobs. Now it is convient to blame it on the same corporations that warned us what would happen. In 2006 the US had a nearly $800 Billion trqade deficit. You have to be out of your mind to think that a deficit like that is anything but catastrophic to American jobs.

Advertising = social manipulation.
Supply side Econ requires advertising and social manipulation to create demand. While not a new concept it's use as a demand creator has been more prevalent in the last 40 years.
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,039
0
76
Surely this was obvious to everyone and their grandmother. Replacing low-tech manufacturing jobs with high-tech jobs only works if you actually plan for them and work to make it happen. They don't just materialise out of thin air. And while everyone was very keen to move their jobs offshore, nobody wanted to consider the other side of the coin - that those jobs needed to be replaced with their high-tech counterparts.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Advertising = social manipulation.
Supply side Econ requires advertising and social manipulation to create demand. While not a new concept it's use as a demand creator has been more prevalent in the last 40 years.

People used to have pride in the US and wouldn't touch imported crap with a 10 foot pole. No advertising I ever saw said ignore where products were made. It just sounds like more excuses instead of blaming ourselves.
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
Chrysler was a corporation and they requested a bailout from Carter in the 70s. The American laborer just can't compete and neither can the American consumer. The fact that CEOs suck so bad and are so wasteful and illogical also never helped. Most CEOs I know are dumber than I am and they're dependent on the state... the state is dependent on them too. Perhaps the producers of junk who don't realize it should be the only casualty of the upcoming war and people like me shouldn't be tortured or experimented on any more. I won't fight either, maybe I'll help confederalize Russia so they'll win what was started by Churchill's stupidity. The US gov controls Russia and the rest of the world and the US gov can't even appreciate it... it just keeps bullying its subjects at home and abroad even more when everyone but the fake 1% like Romney have had enough. It deserves to collapse and for the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness of every human alive it should be replaced with nothing.

The CEO of the company I work for is brilliant.

I am not sure I would call any of those CEOs stupid. Greedy and corrupt is more likely. They usually get out of their own company's predicaments with lots of money. And they always find a new job too! Yay!

Oh yeah, the CEO I work for is not greedy or corrupt either ;)
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
1
81
You are going to blame it on advertising? This shit started back in the 70's and we were warned back then by a lot of those same corporations that we would lose jobs. I remember the billboards back then that said every time you buy and import car 1.5 Americans will lose thier jobs. Now it is convient to blame it on the same corporations that warned us what would happen. In 2006 the US had a nearly $800 Billion trqade deficit. You have to be out of your mind to think that a deficit like that is anything but catastrophic to American jobs.

Yeah it is a bit too late at this point. I will be buying Fords from now on though. Of course, I am not sure.. are Fords actually manufacturer in the States, or is alot of labor completed outside the country?
 

lotus503

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2005
6,502
1
76
People used to have pride in the US and wouldn't touch imported crap with a 10 foot pole. No advertising I ever saw said ignore where products were made. It just sounds like more excuses instead of blaming ourselves.

Oh I place the blame squarely on ourselves, I just don't dismiss the billions poured into social manipulation to get us to buy crap we don't need.

Yes we are responsible for allowing ourselves to be manipulated. But in the end there is still the manipulation, that proven to work.

I mean look at all the supply side advocates, they have been manipulated too. Supply side doesn't work as supply has never created demand, outside of billions poured into social manipulation.

Social manipulation creates demand.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
and would soon be flush with highly paid high-tech jobs and highly paid financial service jobs.

Those types of jobs do not create anything.

Tech jobs design stuff, such as routers, switches and software, but we need working people to make those items.

In other words, we need hands-on people to assemble those products.

We need ship builders, we need people to build bulldozers, build DVD players, make clothes,,,,. It is those jobs that support the middle class.