America’s Middle Class Crisis: The Sobering Facts

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ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,404
8,575
126
Too bad that has nothing to do with income, which is what we are talking about here.

well, yes, it does. people want the cheapest possible product and so (for the most part) prefer to buy things made in china. save money, live better, put your fellow americans out of work.

the only thing i can really think of where people will spend money is on cars (and veneers for their houses), and that's more due to leasing tricking you into thinking you're saving money.

we don't build ships, we build a few cars, cheap metal foundry is done in india (storm grates, manhole covers, that sort of thing). service economy provides jobs with low risk to life and limb but ultimately someone has to make something. if the koreans and norwegians can build ships why can't we? at least the new focus is built here.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Yup and worst part is we are burying ourselves deeper keeping up illusions with debt. That debt will be final nail in coffin should rates to service it go back to a more normal 6%. Half of what we take in in taxes will go to people who profited most by selling Americans out. The large bond holders are the richest Americans followed by the richest Chinese & Japanese.

Let alone if we keep digging, which we are, it doesn't take a mathematician to understand one day payments to bond holders will consume 100% of tax revenue leaving zero in way of opportunity and services.

Not only will we be strapped with debt making any kind of great projects unaffordable we'll have an uneducated population who we paid to sit at home watching TV while great heist went down and we destroyed industrial infrastructure we'll be without the wherewithal to compete in manufacturing with the likes of Germany, China and others.
 
Last edited:
Oct 16, 1999
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I'm tempted to edit this into the OP. It's worth the read but I don't want to start another thread as it's much along this same topic.

Think of it as a parable for these grim economic times. On April 19th, McDonald's launched its first-ever national hiring day, signing up 62,000 new workers at stores throughout the country. For some context, that's more jobs created by one company in a single day than the net job creation of the entire U.S. economy in 2009. And if that boggles the mind, consider how many workers applied to local McDonald's franchises that day and left empty-handed: 938,000 of them. With a 6.2% acceptance rate in its spring hiring blitz, McDonald’s was more selective than the Princeton, Stanford, or Yale University admission offices.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-kroll/economic-recovery_b_859585.html
Much more at link.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
Do the world a favor...tattoo the word "IDIOT" to your forehead so everybody is forewarned.

If he's an idiot, why did CEOs get a pay raise for laying people off and reducing labor costs? Those pesky workers seem to be the main problem with American capitalism!
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
When the government rewards people for not working, what do you think they do? They take lower paying jobs or they don't work at all.
lol. Canada is a place where poor people and low wage people get free medical care, yet Canada's unemployment rate is lower than the US right now. You said giving people free shit makes them choose to be unemployed, but here we see the exact opposite of that.


Additionally, what do you think happens to all the middle class people making $20-$30/hr when minimum wage goes up? They don't see any increase in wages, and yet costs go up all around them. Their buying power sinks further toward the lower class.
So ideally we should use slave labor to keep costs down. I support this idea :thumbsup:


You claim that jobs are increasingly paying less...that would mean that CGS should go down, which means that prices should go down. Yet we've seen the opposite. And don't give me this bullshit about CPI or inflation being stable. I KNOW for a FACT that prices in the grocery store are higher and that prices at the pump are higher.
When compared to other currencies like Canadian or Australian dollars or Euros, the US dollar is way down right now, so you need more of them to buy the same amount of goods.



It's worth pointing out that socialist Europe is all middle class. Their rich people are not as rich as your rich people. Their poor people are not as poor as your poor people. A walmart shelf stocker in France sends his accidental children to top quality day care, top quality school, and they get top quality medical care.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
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lol. Canada is a place where poor people and low wage people get free medical care, yet Canada's unemployment rate is lower than the US right now. You said giving people free shit makes them choose to be unemployed, but here we see the exact opposite of that.



So ideally we should use slave labor to keep costs down. I support this idea :thumbsup:



When compared to other currencies like Canadian or Australian dollars or Euros, the US dollar is way down right now, so you need more of them to buy the same amount of goods.



It's worth pointing out that socialist Europe is all middle class. Their rich people are not as rich as your rich people. Their poor people are not as poor as your poor people. A walmart shelf stocker in France sends his accidental children to top quality day care, top quality school, and they get top quality medical care.

You can't confuse 'em with the truth- They *Believe* what their heroes in the plutocracy tell them, and that's that. It's beyond reason, entirely faith based, an exercise in simulated rationality. First arrive at an emotionally appealing conclusion, then find ways to make it seem to make sense after the fact. Happens all the time- trickledown economics, self regulated banking, ownership society, on and on...
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by Gonad the Barbarian
I'm tempted to edit this into the OP. It's worth the read but I don't want to start another thread as it's much along this same topic.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-k..._b_859585.html
Much more at link.




Everything I said was coming and the Republican dolts in here said would never happen.

Of course they would deny as they personally profit from all of this as evidenced by their own posts.

The enemy is not in Pakistan, they are here, posting right in front of us.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Speaking of trickle down, their pockets should just explode any day now as rich as they are getting...
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
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Excellent article which our resident righties will ignore completely because it runs counter to their faith based conclusions...

They still Believe! and nothing short of outright collapse will dent their armor.

They still wont believe.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Ha! They won't change, religion gets stronger when under hard times. blaming it on entitlements as we speak. Hell they already successfully blamed poor black folk for banking crisis.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,082
136
I'd like to suggest kicking out all the illegals, forcing Americans to take those jobs, forcing those employers to pay at least minimum wage, and then legalizing marijuana and taxing the shit out of it.

We can destroy mexico in one fell swoop.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
As the jobs that supported the middle class go to china, and other third world countries, what do we "really" expect?

That 20 year old guy working at gamestop or best buy today, might have worked in a shipyard, or factory 30 years ago. But the factories are gone, and with them our ability to create middle class jobs.

As I drive through Beaumont Texas, all I see are low wage jobs being created. Jobs that might pay 7 or 8 dollars an hour - not enough to support a family or buy a home.

The same thing is being repeated all over the nation. Not only has our society become disposable, so have our skills.
This is a good point. A few decades ago you could finish up high school, get some fairly crap but not super crap job working in a factory, enough money for a car, a few years down the line a house with higher pay, raise your family on it. Now with just high school you're selling me cups of coffee and where is that going to take you? You can't work your way up very easily if there's nowhere to go.

This society already is split heavily between the haves and have nots. The middle class has had a luxurious time (honestly, we have) in the middle, a huge percentage of the population living pretty fly. But the rich are getting rich and the rest of us are kind of slipping down the hill.

Some still think it's a land of opportunity. Relatively speaking, yes, but it should be much better. There are enough people who know they are getting a comparatively sore deal but they are too stupid unfortunately to know why. I do believe it's highly in part because of the politicians being owned by corporations, which are acting for their shareholders and do not give any damn at all for their workers.

It is more than a little worrying to me that we are now at record corporate profits--ever--and yet unemployment is still very high. It definitely supports the argument above about recovery and growth able to happen in spite of unemployment. But this shouldn't be a big surprise. With the lower-end jobs being outsourced it was inevitable that at some point it would be easier to pay a guy in mexico $2/hour or China $.80/hour to do what you used to have to pay $8-10 to a guy in the US to do. Communication is easy now and the internet allows much better management of far away resources, plus these countries are able to cater to it. If you are the bottom of the ladder in the US right now things are f**king dire for you. Your future is grim economically, really grim.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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If you think it's bad now, wait till GOP defaults on US debt or pushes through some draconian spending cuts.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
http://www.buddysjeans.com/index.htm <--- 30 bucks for some jeans made in the usa. You guys can handle that.

If we spend $30 on jeans instead of say $20, thats all well and good but what about the store clerk?

What store clerk you say? (or insert any other job here)
The guys job that was eliminated because we are now spending $30 on jeans instead of $20 so we now have less money to spend on other things.

Its the seen vs the unseen consequences.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
1,879
0
0
If you think it's bad now, wait till GOP defaults on US debt or pushes through some draconian spending cuts.

Yeah, sure "draconian", just like that 30 billion "draconian" spending cut we were supposed to have.

1% of the budget is draconian cuts to the left, so its not really saying much.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
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Yeah, sure "draconian", just like that 30 billion "draconian" spending cut we were supposed to have.

1% of the budget is draconian cuts to the left, so its not really saying much.

Boehner wants cuts in the trillions or he's defaulting on US debt.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
lol did that idiot say this?
Thats never going to happen, no way in hell.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...-club-speech/2011/05/09/AFCp22ZG_story_2.html

“Without significant spending cuts and changes in the way we spend the American people’s money, there will be no increase in the debt limit. And the cuts should be greater than the accompanying increase in the debt limit that the president is given,” Boehner said in an address to the Economic Club of New York at a hotel in Midtown Manhattan. “We’re not talking about billions here. We should be talking about cuts in trillions if we’re serious about addressing America’s fiscal problems.”

Yep, that Boehnehead really wants to cut trillions with country still teetering on the brink of recession and millions out of work.