America’s Middle Class Crisis: The Sobering Facts

[Doc Savage Fan]

Good:
1. Middle class on the ropes
2. Cheaper labor costs
3. Profit

Do the world a favor...tattoo the word "IDIOT" to your forehead so everybody is forewarned.

 

[senseamp]

Do the world a favor...tattoo the word "IDIOT" to your forehead so everybody is forewarned.

Says a guy who self identifies as "Doc Savage Fan."

 

[Arglebargle]

Says a guy who self identifies as "Doc Savage Fan."

Be careful! He has an institute in upstate New York where he can lobotomize you if you're bad!

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

One problem is the false language. For example, a "tax cut" for the rich isn't. It's a "tax transfer" from the rich to everyone else.

Those taxes don't just go away, we no longer owe the money - the taxes are 100% offloaded onto the public, who now owe them - plus interest.

"Privatize gains, socialize losses". The rich have skyrocketed in income for decades.

How about the 60 something % of Americans that pay no taxes, actually start paying some damn income tax.

When will your kind be satisfied? when the succesfully people stop working because 100% of their pay goes to taxes?
The left more so than the right is playing class warfare and that is what is destroying this country. The Left has convienced the mindless poor sheeple that they shouldn't have to earn their money, when some rich guy they don't know "Can afford to pay more in taxes to support the poor". So you have a whole group of people wanting something for nothing. On the other end of the spectrum, you have more right leaning people that hate the social and monetary leeches of the left that are trying to suck them dry.

 

[Blackjack200]

How about the 60 something % of Americans that pay no taxes, actually start paying some damn income tax.

When will your kind be satisfied? when the succesfully people stop working because 100% of their pay goes to taxes?
The left more so than the right is playing class warfare and that is what is destroying this country. The Left has convienced the mindless poor sheeple that they shouldn't have to earn their money, when some rich guy they don't know "Can afford to pay more in taxes to support the poor". So you have a whole group of people wanting something for nothing. On the other end of the spectrum, you have more right leaning people that hate the social and monetary leeches of the left that are trying to suck them dry.

Yeah, that's why every job posting gets like 300 resumes, right? People just don't want to work.

 

[Arglebargle]

If you own most of the country, you should pay most of the taxes.

Good luck finding someplace else with more protections for your profits and less of a tax burden.

 

[Craig234]

How about the 60 something % of Americans that pay no taxes, actually start paying some damn income tax.

When will your kind be satisfied? when the succesfully people stop working because 100% of their pay goes to taxes?
The left more so than the right is playing class warfare and that is what is destroying this country. The Left has convienced the mindless poor sheeple that they shouldn't have to earn their money, when some rich guy they don't know "Can afford to pay more in taxes to support the poor". So you have a whole group of people wanting something for nothing. On the other end of the spectrum, you have more right leaning people that hate the social and monetary leeches of the left that are trying to suck them dry.

Apparently, a couple things that have been said here many times are too much for you.

One is about when the rich's income goes up far more than their taxes.

In fact, the worse income inequality gets, the worse tax inequality gets. The poorer Americans paying less income tax *because they make so little* isn't them 'stealing'.

It'd be better for them to make more and pay more taxes. You oppose that.

Double the rich guy's income, increase taxes 50%. Double the rich guy's income, increase taxes 50%. Double the right guy's income, increase taxes 50%.

Notice, he's making out quite well in that scenario - you'd think he'd be happy, but then he uses that increase in money to pay for campaigns to lower his taxes.

People like you fall for them.

Second, the income taxes is just one of many taxes in society, and one thing affecting people's income.

You ignore all kinds of issues in your post to only look at one small part.

The bottom line is you support a plutocracy, the rich making far, far, more and everyone else pretty much in poverty.

I'm for a strong middle class - and am fine with it paying its share of taxes.

In the last 30 years, the bottom 80% have gotten no share of the economy's growth after inflation - it's all gone to the top. You could care less.

 

[piasabird]

What does strong middle class mean? Wonder if I make enough to be in the middle class?

 

[Martin]

A good Krugman editorial on this subject:

The past three years have been a disaster for most Western economies. The United States has mass long-term unemployment for the first time since the 1930s. Meanwhile, Europe’s single currency is coming apart at the seams. How did it all go so wrong?

Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times
Paul Krugman
Go to Columnist Page »
Blog: The Conscience of a Liberal
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Well, what I’ve been hearing with growing frequency from members of the policy elite — self-appointed wise men, officials, and pundits in good standing — is the claim that it’s mostly the public’s fault. The idea is that we got into this mess because voters wanted something for nothing, and weak-minded politicians catered to the electorate’s foolishness.

So this seems like a good time to point out that this blame-the-public view isn’t just self-serving, it’s dead wrong.

The fact is that what we’re experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. The policies that got us into this mess weren’t responses to public demand. They were, with few exceptions, policies championed by small groups of influential people — in many cases, the same people now lecturing the rest of us on the need to get serious. And by trying to shift the blame to the general populace, elites are ducking some much-needed reflection on their own catastrophic mistakes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/09/opinion/09krugman.html

 

[Texashiker]

How about the 60 something % of Americans that pay no taxes, actually start paying some damn income tax.

.

Income tax is part of the problem, not the solution.

Income tax laws will always favor the rich with all kinds of deductions. If you want a fair tax law, the income tax has to be abolished.

 

[Craig234]

Income tax is part of the problem, not the solution.

Income tax laws will always favor the rich with all kinds of deductions. If you want a fair tax law, the income tax has to be abolished.

You're ignorant and kinda nutty here.

The progressive income tax is an excellent way to tax.

There's nothing in it requiring the 'corrupt deductions'.

It's the alternative taxes to it that are far worse, like the false-name 'fair tax' that would shift taxes off the rich onto everyone else.

The problem is the excessive power of the rich corrupting, not the tax structure.

 

[Jhhnn]

How about the 60 something % of Americans that pay no taxes, actually start paying some damn income tax.

Like I offered, what we believe in is the problem, and anybody who believes this is doing their dead level best to avoid self examination at all.

47% pay no federal income tax, but they still pay lots of other taxes-

http://www.ctj.org/pdf/taxday2011.pdf

Facts, as usual, won't make a dent in what Righties believe.

 

[Jhhnn]

Income tax is part of the problem, not the solution.

Income tax laws will always favor the rich with all kinds of deductions. If you want a fair tax law, the income tax has to be abolished.

Prior to Reagan, Federal income taxes were the great leveler that kept the plutocracy from running away with the whole enchilada. Not anymore. As top tier incomes have exploded, their effective federal income tax rates have fallen by 1/3-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

See tables 5 & 8.

Yeh, sure, taxes for the bottom 50% have fallen, too, but not in proportion to their share of income...

How else can taxes be levied on astronomically wealthy people whose incomes are not spent, other than in small part, but rather invested?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
There is no middle class, Bush and Co knocked that out long ago.

So does that make you lower or upper class?

No doubt I am lower class scum

 

[Paul98]

How about put together some sort of wealth tax.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

The problem with our democracy is that politics and financial success have become way too intertwined. Our government is no longer equally representative of all people and is heavily tilted towards the financially wealthy. The more money you have the more influence you have over government at all levels. This has created a vicious circle benefiting the truly wealthy.

1. Increase wealth
2. Influence legeslation to give yourself a larger advantage
3. Increase wealth further
4 Further drive the rules in you favor
5. Rinse and repeat over and over

This trend has accelerated over the past few decades to the point where the avg CEO who in the 70's made 30x-40x the avg employee to that same CEO making 800x-1000x the avg employee today. And when tilting the rules and reducing taxes on the ultra wealthy failed to produce the insane inreases in income that they were looking for they started selling out their employees and offshoring jobs, and when that started to play out they created false wealth by deficit spending and leaving the taxpayer to pay the bill. Then they created the housing boom by giving away free credit to people they knew could never pay which drove real estate prices and their investment profits through the roof, then when it all blew up they bailed themselves out with yes you guessed it more taxpayer money.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

For a good time, visit The Economic Collapse blog. It has numerous blog posts chock full of statistics about the death of the U.S. middle class.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

But if you listen to Rep Ryan, the obvious answer is to give "job creators" yet another tax cut, a really big one, raise taxes & cut benefits for the rest of America to, uhh, "cut the deficit", yeh, that's it...

Who disposed of who? And what do we still believe in that allows it to continue?

The government creates policies that are anti-job and anti middle class with their continual thirst for more and corporations aren't hiring because they don't have to. Between the two the middle class is screwed.

 

[matt0611]

Prior to Reagan, Federal income taxes were the great leveler that kept the plutocracy from running away with the whole enchilada. Not anymore. As top tier incomes have exploded, their effective federal income tax rates have fallen by 1/3-

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

See tables 5 & 8.

Yeh, sure, taxes for the bottom 50% have fallen, too, but not in proportion to their share of income...

How else can taxes be levied on astronomically wealthy people whose incomes are not spent, other than in small part, but rather invested?

How does high taxes on the rich help the middle-class?
Can you walk me through the logic on that please?

 

[Zebo]

You have seen nothing yet. We'll look a lot like Mexico in 10-20 years with 90% in misery and destitution. 10% middle who live behind walls and in fortified rancheros who serve and protect the 1% rich.

It's all be planned out this way with crappy education, importing people who don't know what it like having a large middle and offshoring and indebting us to the very people who made all the money offshoring. Believe it they will cut every service and take your 401k before USA is allowed to default on the uber rich.

Don't worry tho I go dove hunting in Mexico with friends and Mexico is pretty nice, if you're on the right side of the fault line. No limits and laws don't apply to them.

This should act as a warning to not be spend thrift, invest every dime properly, get a marketable education etc... basically buckle down like never before so you're on the right side.

 

[HendrixFan]

And let's not forget that America's middle class in many cases has itself to blame...

-Buying a McMansion on meager income
-Buying a car (SUV?) for each household member
-Buying luxury cars on meager income
-Paying for more bling?
-Putting stuff over important things like education and health care
-Cable TV/Internet/Data Smartphone plans for all
-Credit card debt
-Zero savings
-Having too many children


Short-sighted planing/budgeting and greed at all levels is to blame here.

Too bad that has nothing to do with income, which is what we are talking about here.

 

[Zebo]

How does high taxes on the rich help the middle-class?
Can you walk me through the logic on that please?

You can't be serious? I oblige. It improves the middles market position and weakens the tippy tops.

Who do you think paid for the Land Grant Act of 1862 that gave us State Universities and Colleges? Who benefited?

Who do you think paid for Veterans Readjustment Act of 1944 which allowed the poor folks to get a college education paid by the Feds?

Or the Transcontinental Railroad Act of 1862: and Federal Highway Act of 1954 and Interstate Highway Act of 1956: Building of the largest road infrastructure on the planet which allowed billions to be made in agriculture, tourism, auto, etc and put billions into union workers pockets?

People require investment for success. Everyone knows this. Especially the rich which is what keeps schools like 45K a year Phillips Academy in business. They just don't want you to have it.


I myself got over 1M in SBA loans over the years which would not have been possible without progressive taxation.

 

[xj0hnx]

You can't be serious? I oblige. It improves the middles market position and weakens the tippy tops.

Who do you think paid for the Land Grant Act of 1862 that gave us State Universities and Colleges? Who benefited?

Who do you think paid for Veterans Readjustment Act of 1944 which allowed the poor folks to get a college education paid by the Feds?

Or the Transcontinental Railroad Act of 1862: and Federal Highway Act of 1954 and Interstate Highway Act of 1956: Building of the largest road infrastructure on the planet which allowed billions to be made in agriculture, tourism, auto, etc and put billions into union workers pockets?

People require investment for success. Everyone knows this. Especially the rich which is what keeps schools like 45K a year Phillips Academy in business. They just don't want you to have it.

Pretty sure he means how would it help the middle class today, not a couple examples from 60-150 years ago.

 

[Zebo]

Oh we still have plenty of opportunity programs, join the military is a staple of the right - the real difference is the burden has shifted to the middle and using debt over last 30 years instead of rich AND underlying dynamic has shifted as well, into bought-off congressmen ignoring real social problems and using the legislative process to construct massive perpetual handouts for their campaign-contributor sponsors. (cough medicare part D)

 

[Greenman]

Service based economy FTL. We've made our bed...now we're sleeping in it.

This. Who ever thought it would work?