AMD's Richard Huddy on DirectX 11, Eyefinity, and the competition

[Wreckage]

I'm calling shenanigans. You've claimed this like 3 times. I've googled it, talked to people I know, nothing? Each time I ask for proof and you just ignore me.

Run HL2. The first splash screen has a guy with a valve in his eye. The second has a bunch of legal crap. Read the last line.

Isn't BFG10K's primary card a GTX285 (maybe a GTX275?)? He's done some of his tests on it I think.

Both Rollo and I have ATI parts in some form. (I believe rollo has a 4xxx series card). Does that change your opinion of us? No I doubt it. Nor does it change what I said. It was in reference to everyone who is complaining about such a minor issue. In fact it is only the truly fanatical ATI fans who are upset.

 

[Schmide]

Run HL2. The first splash screen has a guy with a valve in his eye. The second has a bunch of legal crap. Read the last line.

I found it in Left 4 Dead 2, for some reason HL2 doesn't display the splash screens on my windows 7 ultimate with nVidia gtx260. I'll upload a picture.

 

[thilanliyan]

Both Rollo and I have ATI parts in some form. (I believe rollo has a 4xxx series card). Does that change your opinion of us? No I doubt it.

Despite that your PRIMARY gaming is not on an ATI system is it? IIRC you had an ATI laptop (how much do you really game on that?) and Rollo had a 4850 that he was using to find ATI driver faults (?) so it's not really the same as BFG owning an nVidia part. BFG actually games primarily on his GTX285 I think...he got the 5770 for testing purposes didn't he?

It was in reference to everyone who is complaining about such a minor issue. In fact it is only the truly fanatical ATI fans who are upset.

I don't know if you classify me as a fanatical ATI fan but I definitely feel nV shouldn't have locked out MSAA. My issue isn't with that specific instance of it (I played Batman on PS3 anyway) but a general trend of locking stuff to their own hardware or even blocking their own features from working when an ATI card is present. IMO that kind of stuff hurts PC gaming more than it helps and I'd say the same if ATI did it (find an example of that from ATI and I'll gladly trumpet it all over the video forum).

I know you've argued that TWIMTBP adds features into PC games but really the devs should be asking nV and ATI about adding features to PC games, not the other way around (which is how it seems to be working nowadays with consoles being the primary focus). And if the devs were the ones asking, they'd be putting in features that work with both types of cards to reach the largest market possible.

 

[at80eighty]

Products that are selling out like hotcakes aren't always available. Those collecting dust on the shelf are.

 

[Wreckage]

I found it in Left 4 Dead 2, for some reason HL2 doesn't display the splash screens on my windows 7 ultimate with nVidia gtx260. I'll upload a picture.

I humbly accept your apology. ()

 

[lifeblood]

"Well if it's not faster and it's 50 per cent bigger, then they've done something wrong"

I really like that statement. So when Fermi (finally) comes out it will probably be faster. However, it really changes nothing for me. When I look at buying a video card I look at Price versus Performance. Price includes heat generated, power supply required, price of the actual video card, etc. Who has the fastest card really doesn't matter to me unless I have a ton of money (which never seems to happen now that I'm married). I will be happy when Fermi comes out as it will mean we once again have real competition.

Still, ATI seems to feel that they have something in the works for this year that will beat Fermi. I gotta wonder what that will be? They already have an X2. Would they try an X3? I gotta admit that is pretty questionable. You just won't see that much performance improvement over and X2. Maybe an overclocked water-cooled card? They are already pushing the limits of heat and power. I'm pretty sure it will be in their mid year model release. They've already shrunk as much as they can so the performance increase has got to be somewhere else.

 

[uclaLabrat]

They're supposedly releasing a new refresh in spring with a new arch later this year, IIRC from their lineup.

 

[PingviN]

Still, ATI seems to feel that they have something in the works for this year that will beat Fermi. I gotta wonder what that will be? They already have an X2. Would they try an X3? I gotta admit that is pretty questionable. You just won't see that much performance improvement over and X2. Maybe an overclocked water-cooled card? They are already pushing the limits of heat and power. I'm pretty sure it will be in their mid year model release. They've already shrunk as much as they can so the performance increase has got to be somewhere else.

If they can get power consumption down, they can increase clock speeds.

Either that or they lower their prices, you can be damn sure Nvidia doesn't want another price-war against a 50% smaller GPU.

 

[lifeblood]

Either that or they lower their prices

While that would be great for us it would not give them the fastest card. I bet they will find away to increase clock speeds.

 

[Creig]

Both Rollo and I have ATI parts in some form. (I believe rollo has a 4xxx series card). Does that change your opinion of us? No I doubt it.

So you think that Rollo owning a 4850 somehow made him more fair-minded? Nvidia discovered an ATi driver glitch in Far Cry 2 that caused some rocks textures to fade out. Nvidia told Rollo about it. Rollo went out, purchased a 4850 and then tried to pass off the Nvidia information as if he had discovered it himself purely by accident.

Not exactly the type of behavior that I would want to associate myself with.

 

[Wreckage]

So you think that Rollo owning a 4850 somehow made him more fair-minded?

Thank you for making my point.

 

[thilanliyan]

Thank you for making my point.

I'll quote myself:

Despite that your PRIMARY gaming is not on an ATI system is it? IIRC you had an ATI laptop (how much do you really game on that?) and Rollo had a 4850 that he was using to find ATI driver faults (?) so it's not really the same as BFG owning an nVidia part. BFG actually games primarily on his GTX285 I think...he got the 5770 for testing purposes didn't he?

I'm not really sure how you can compare yourself to BFG and classify him as an ATI fan.

 

[akugami]

Thank you for making my point.

So your point was the fact that Rollo was biased and the reason he had a Radeon 4 series card was because nVidia told him about a glitch in a game involving AMD cards. Roll then pointed out the glitch and pretended he discovered it. Cause that's what Creig is saying and I agree with Creig. I guess you also agree Rollo was biased and the only reason he had an AMD/ATI card was because of a hidden agenda to trash AMD.

 

[Seero]

Does it matter who is a fanboy?

Lets review some simple facts:
ATI have hardware that uses Dx11, namely the 5xxx series. It is cheap and relatively fast. It introduced a built in multi displays support, they named it Eyefinity.

Nvidia is new Fermi series will also support Dx11, bulti multi displays and should be faster than all existing cards, plus PhysX and 3D. Unfortunately, it will be expensive and it is not out yet.

Some of the extra cost on Nvidia's video card went to TWIMTBP, a program that offers aid to game developers. ATI also have a program like that, but in a much smaller size.

ATI has tried to engineer their video card to support DirectX, openCL, and openGL. The only innovative about the design is its naming technology.

Nvidia also support DirectX, openCL/GL, plus CUDA, physX, and 3D vision. The idea of 3D is not new, but the 3D vision glasses is.

So Nvidia's video card is more expensive simply because it have some more features. If features that are backed only by Nvidia is not your cup of tea, then get an ATI video card.

If you ain't rich, or willing to spend money on gaming, that ATI is the way to go. 60Hz LCD are cheap, and it is a scalable option. Otherwise, Nvidia is the way to go. SLI + one 120Hz + 3D vision glasses is great, Tri SLI + 3x 56" 120hz projectors + 3D vision glasses is epic. When you are there, 7.1 sound system is more or less a requirement. Don't go cheap on the sound card please. That is why blue rays are for. And do not forget to have several SSDs at raid 0, perfect for gaming or converting Vids. Yes, the cost of changing a bulb = a high end ATI card. So what? Only ATI claims that new techs are cheap, while others know that nothing new is cheap.

I will repeat myself, money is never a problem to me. My problem is, I don't have money.

 

[Daedalus685]

Does it matter who is a fanboy?
The idea of 3D is not new, but the 3D vision glasses is.

Shutter 3d glasses were first used in the 1920's. None of this technology is new in any way shape or form. We are just able to get it in a form that is more or less nice in our homes.

There will be an open standard for 3D the second it matters to the average person (which will be soon) though I think it will be driven by teh display vendors and not the GPU vendors. Though I'm not sure what the patents look like.. Can you patent something as general as "a system for covering your eye in sync with a display", or does it have to be much more specific?

This is not a hard implementation to add to anything from Intel GMA, to ati.. Unless the patents are very broad. 3d is not complicated, and doesn't require anything fancy except the method one uses to trick the human eyes. Though I hope they come up with something I can comfortably wear over my coke bottle sized glasses. One day...

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Why is he back trolling threads after being banned for the... 5th( ? I lost count) time?

If he will never get perma banned, then he should receive a title, like Spinmaster or something

Most of this thread, as usual, is posts replying to his FUD, instead of discussing the article... Forget trying to get any useful info here

 

[Nemesis 1]

I can't believe THE wreckage invoking Rollo. Rollo if your reading this thread take heart . We know you had a job to do . But this, this is just retarded. Wreckage invoking Rollo LOL!

 

[SlowSpyder]

So your point was the fact that Rollo was biased and the reason he had a Radeon 4 series card was because nVidia told him about a glitch in a game involving AMD cards. Roll then pointed out the glitch and pretended he discovered it. Cause that's what Creig is saying and I agree with Creig. I guess you also agree Rollo was biased and the only reason he had an AMD/ATI card was because of a hidden agenda to trash AMD.

You're saying that Nvidia, and/or someone associated with Nvidia, distorted the truth to make AMD look bad? I am flabbergasted...

 

[Lonbjerg]

Unfortunately, it will be expensive and it is not out yet.

Did they release MSRP?

 

[Seero]

Did they release MSRP?

I don't know, but I don't think so.

 

[MrK6]

I was going to reply to wreckage's posts, but he got told well enough; glad to see this forum understands the problem.

The article is an interesting read, and some great points are made. I guess I'd say the ball is in AMD's court for the time being, let's see how much more they can do with it (I think they've already done quite a bit with this generation).

 

[Lonbjerg]

I don't know, but I don't think so.

Ah, I see...you pulled a "charlie"...kudos :thumbsdown:

 

[Creig]

ATI has tried to engineer their video card to support DirectX, openCL, and openGL. The only innovative about the design is its naming technology.

You're forgetting about tessellation. ATi hardware has included tessellation support since the 2000 series. Obviously ATi saw the advantages to be realized from tessellation and were proactive in gaining industry support for it. Now it is one of the biggest features of DX11. That's innovation right there.

Nvidia also support DirectX, openCL/GL, plus CUDA, physX, and 3D vision. The idea of 3D is not new, but the 3D vision glasses is.

Actually, 3D shutter glasses are an OLD technology. I have a pair of them sitting up in my closet that I purchased 10 years ago.

http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/elsa_revelator/

The Nvidia 3D Vision glasses are identical in almost every respect. Well, except for price that is. Back then, you could pick up a set of the wired glasses for $50 or the IR version for $80. Nvidia dusted off the technology and is now charging $200 for the exact same thing you could buy for $80 a decade ago.

 

[Wreckage]

You're forgetting about tessellation. ATi hardware has included tessellation support since the 2000 series. Obviously ATi saw the advantages to be realized from tessellation and were proactive in gaining industry support for it. Now it is one of the biggest features of DX11. That's innovation right there.

NVIDIA holds a patent on tessellation that goes back nearly 7 years.
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...50&s1=6906716.PN.&OS=PN/6906716&RS=PN/6906716

It's nothing new.

 

[SirPauly]

You're forgetting about tessellation. ATi hardware has included tessellation support since the 2000 series. Obviously ATi saw the advantages to be realized from tessellation and were proactive in gaining industry support for it. Now it is one of the biggest features of DX11. That's innovation right there.



Actually, 3D shutter glasses are an OLD technology. I have a pair of them sitting up in my closet that I purchased 10 years ago.

http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/elsa_revelator/

The Nvidia 3D Vision glasses are identical in almost every respect. Well, except for price that is. Back then, you could pick up a set of the wired glasses for $50 or the IR version for $80. Nvidia dusted off the technology and is now charging $200 for the exact same thing you could buy for $80 a decade ago.

Tend to look at Tessellation and 3d Stereo as wonderful choices to raise the bar of immersion for games. Can't pick and choose - both welcomed.

However, 3d stereo is more than just games though as the industry is moving to 3d stereo -- especially if some payed a bit attention to CES. Movies, Videos, Photos, games, Internet, medical and work place -- hardware from different displays, methods and cameras. 3D stereo has its own ecosystem in a way -- and you call this simply dusting off old technology and quite insulting for the hard work even AMD/ATI is doing with working with Bit Cauldron and IZ3d.